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Thread: 2021 F1 Thread.

  1. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I expect this to go to the court of arbitration unless a deal is done.
    If Mercedes lose their appeal, which I expect to be the outcome given that the FIA will do all that they can to avoid the embarrassment of overturning a result they manufactured, then this will defo end up at CAS.


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  2. #552
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    Oh well, F1 is a business and I believe a "business" decision was made this afternoon.

    How anyone in the "Sport" can agree that that was a fair way to end the race under the safety car, either doesn't know the rules or works for RBR.

    Disgraceful.

  3. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    For those interested in the regulations

    48.12 If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car.
    This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed.
    Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.
    If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will be sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system.


    So by only allowing certain cars to unlap themselves Massi broken the FIA Sporting Code. He neither need to all all lapped cars to pass before restarting the race or none of the lapped cars to overtake before restarting the race. There is no ability for the clerk of the course to all “some cars” to unlap themselves.

    I expect this to go to the court of arbitration unless a deal is done.
    Yes, the decision to let some of the lapped cars through does smack of the showboating Nascar practice of throwing 'Phanton Cautions' in the last few laps when one car is miles ahead. It's done just to improve the show, not in keeping with the mostly-honourable 75-year tradition of a sport...

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure the Merc objection won't be upheld (although if it went to a Court, with a non-FIA/F1 Judge, that might not be true), but their chances of producing a new-rules rocket ship in '22 are high, so Lewis is likely to get no.8.

  4. #554
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Go Max......
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  5. #555
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    The rules are black & white, Massi made up the decision on the fly.
    IF the rules prevail the result will not stand.

  6. #556
    Master chrisb's Avatar
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    #F1 just a thought, to save 100’s of Millions of £’s and god knows how much climate pollution, why don’t the FIA announce today who they want to win the championship next season? Would save a load of faffing about

  7. #557
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    That race today and the rules were always going to benefit the second place car, whoever was in this position could roll the dice, first place had to maintain the track position, once a new set of soft tyres were put on MV's car and the traffic was set aside for him it was an easy take.

    This will roll on as it should, on that race today Lewis deserved the win, actually I think both drivers did their job perfectly, it was other people not doing theirs..

  8. #558
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    That ending was a joke. Hamilton was miles in front and if they had followed the regulations (all lapped cars or no lapped cars) instead of trying to make it more entertaining then he would have easily won.
    They even seemed to change their minds on what they were going to do re the lapped cars just before the re-start.
    Travesty.

  9. #559
    Protest 1 under article 48.8 (overtaking under the safety car) has been dismissed.

  10. #560
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    I just don't know what I want to happen right now...

    Masi made a bad call, contrary to the rules, in order to give us a final lap showdown that guaranteed the guy who was fastest in the race by a considerable margin did not win it. More than the race, Masi decided the winner of the world championship with this call.

    Should the result be overturned, I won't be happy, the race is over and it shouldn't be decided retrospectively.

    Should the result stand, I still won't be happy, Max won on track with none of his games and to strip him of it would be wrong.

    The integrity of F1 is absolutely blown for me, I don't know if I'm still a fan or not, this is just sour. I know, Masi doesn't give a s**t what I think, but I suspect I'm not the only one who feels like this.

  11. #561
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    You’re right PH, Masi is the one bringing the sport into disrepute, drivers did what they had to perfectly


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  12. #562
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    2021 F1 Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Hotel View Post
    I just don't know what I want to happen right now...

    Masi made a bad call, contrary to the rules, in order to give us a final lap showdown that guaranteed the guy who was fastest in the race by a considerable margin did not win it. More than the race, Masi decided the winner of the world championship with this call.

    Should the result be overturned, I won't be happy, the race is over and it shouldn't be decided retrospectively.

    Should the result stand, I still won't be happy, Max won on track with none of his games and to strip him of it would be wrong.

    The integrity of F1 is absolutely blown for me, I don't know if I'm still a fan or not, this is just sour. I know, Masi doesn't give a s**t what I think, but I suspect I'm not the only one who feels like this.
    Only reason MV won was because of Masi.
    Any other scenario would have ended to LHs win.

    Edit.
    Honestly I can’t see any other result than that LH will be announced winner. Maybe not by FIA but ultimately CAS.

  13. #563
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    CAS here we come!
    How long does it usually take for CAS to make a decision?

  14. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJL25 View Post
    CAS here we come!
    How long does it usually take for CAS to make a decision?
    Months …

  15. #565

  16. #566
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    The result will stand because the stewards are the ultimate decision makers - even if they are wrong.

    Mercedes will get a huge compensation package from the FIA, details protected by a NDA.

    Masi might resign due to "personal reasons".

    Verstappen's title will always be tainted by the controversy - but RB and he are too arrogant to care.

  17. #567
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    Max now confirmed as 2021 champion…….

  18. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by langtoft lad View Post
    The result will stand because the stewards are the ultimate decision makers - even if they are wrong.

    Mercedes will get a huge compensation package from the FIA, details protected by a NDA.

    Masi might resign due to "personal reasons".

    Verstappen's title will always be tainted by the controversy - but RB and he are too arrogant to care.
    ... and we Dutch don't care. Had it been given to LH, the same 'ifs and buts' would have sticked to his victory.

    This time the dice rolled good for Max. In Silverstone, the dice thrown by Masi rolled good for Lewis with only 10 sec penalty after ousting Verstappen where they should have taken away his points like they warned both LH and MV to do in Abu Dhabi this weekend in case of an accident.

  19. #569
    Love Max, absolutely screaming at that last lap, epic.

    The cry babies are going to court

    Stewards ruling here

    https://twitter.com/RachelBrookesTV/...cxrVIJNhw&s=19

    All the best Kimi

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    Martin: “Will you get over it?”
    Kimi: “Yeah. I was having a shit.”

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  20. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    ... and we Dutch don't care. Had it been given to LH, the same 'ifs and buts' would have sticked to his victory.

    This time the dice rolled good for Max. In Silverstone, the dice thrown by Masi rolled good for Lewis with only 10 sec penalty after ousting Verstappen where they should have taken away his points like they warned both LH and MV to do in Abu Dhabi this weekend in case of an accident.
    He shouldn't be the champion, he was getting soundly beaten until the Race Director changed the rules, what a farce of a sport.

  21. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by langtoft lad View Post
    The result will stand because the stewards are the ultimate decision makers - even if they are wrong.

    Mercedes will get a huge compensation package from the FIA, details protected by a NDA.

    Masi might resign due to "personal reasons".

    Verstappen's title will always be tainted by the controversy - but RB and he are too arrogant to care.
    Not expecting Max to get “Sports personality of the year” then…………………. ?

  22. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martylaa View Post
    He shouldn't be the champion, he was getting soundly beaten until the Race Director changed the rules, what a farce of a sport.
    1000% agree, if you can’t win by being the better driver or having a better car then just change the rules….
    Both Max and Red Bull will know deep down they had no chance today and that the win is bitter sweet.

  23. #573
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Michael Masi determined the outcome of this championship - he used his discretion to interpret the rules like never before to create a restart where there was only one viable winner. That is not his role, ever.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  24. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    For those interested in the regulations

    48.12 If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car.
    This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed.
    Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.
    If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will be sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system.


    So by only allowing certain cars to unlap themselves Massi broken the FIA Sporting Code. He neither needs to allow all lapped cars to pass before restarting the race or none of the lapped cars to overtake before restarting the race. There is no ability for the clerk of the course to all “some cars” to unlap themselves.

    I expect this to go to the court of arbitration unless a deal is done.

    Well it’s done. Max is WDC and Mercedes is WCC end of. Hopefully the FIA will regroup and be better next year, but somehow I doubt it.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  25. #575
    Max won in a slower car, totally deserved .

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  26. #576
    Master RJM25R's Avatar
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    I’m an occasional watcher, I used to be a huge fan but lost interest a few seasons ago.

    What I saw today can be described in one word.

    Farce.

  27. #577
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveya. View Post
    Max won in a slower car, totally deserved .
    He was handed it - FOC.

    If the race had gone full distance without a safety car he would have been second.

    Stop trolling.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  28. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    He was handed it - FOC.

    If the race had gone full distance without a safety car he would have been second.

    Stop trolling.
    Having an opinion is not trolling . Believe or not not everyone agrees with you. I don't , so er no, I won't stop 'trolling' lol, this isn't twitter . The stewards have correctly thrown out the appeals . It's over . Max is WC

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  29. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by gortz View Post
    The best driver and smartest team won. Congrats Max and Red Bull.
    Rubbish

  30. #580
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveya. View Post
    Having an opinion is not trolling . Believe or not not everyone agrees with you. I don't , so er no, I won't stop 'trolling' lol, this isn't twitter . The stewards have correctly thrown out the appeals . It's over . Max is WC
    In your case it is - no foundation for your assertions. Let's agree to disagree.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  31. #581
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    Its going to get very dirty and maybe Max will not be able to 100% feel champion until all the protests are put to bed. its a shame as I think both Lewis and Max have done the very best of what they have to do.

    Today Mercedes/Hamilton rinsed RB over the 57 laps but no driver is going to compete on a one lap race with shot tyres vs an equal car and driver on new soft tyres.

    How about next week Lewis v's Max over 10 laps on the same tyres and they start side by side on the grid, coin toss for left or right side of track winner takes all, It would end speculation and be great to watch..

  32. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    In your case it is - no foundation for your assertions. Let's agree to disagree.
    I agree with the stewards ruling, as linked above , totally legitimate foundation for assertions .

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  33. #583
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    A lot of people who watched because of the hype will desert races from now on, I heard from many friends since the race who have said how does that happen they change their minds mid race, after to admit it was shocking, shall not bother at all next year.

  34. #584
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveya. View Post
    I agree with the stewards ruling, as linked above , totally legitimate foundation for assertions .
    LH outpaced MV for the whole race until the safety car.

    The shambles that followed handed the victory to MV.

    Of course you agree with the stewards - it supports your trolling.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  35. #585
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    Give another five years and F1 will be all electric the fans will dessert it then.

    I used to love F1 back in the day the noise the smell and only take an occasional interest now, and when the above happens it will be nano
    Last edited by hilly10; 12th December 2021 at 20:52.

  36. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    LH outpaced MV for the whole race until the safety car.

    The shambles that followed handed the victory to MV.

    Of course you agree with the stewards - it supports your trolling.
    Except to the first corner right? After that he had the fastest car so whatevs.



    'supports your trolling' come on Chris get a grip , I've no issue with what happened , none at all.

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  37. #587
    Master 50kopek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Max has shown time and again this year that he’s happy to run another driver off track. If he took himself and Lewis out he would still win the championship.
    You may be right, but Max lost a lot more points having been run off the track (and out of races) by Mercedes than the other way around.

  38. #588
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    "All press is good press" and F1 is going to be all over it

  39. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50kopek View Post
    You may be right, but Max lost a lot more points having been run off the track (and out of races) by Mercedes than the other way around.
    Remember Silverstone and Hungary..

  40. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martylaa View Post
    He shouldn't be the champion, he was getting soundly beaten until the Race Director changed the rules, what a farce of a sport.
    I agree with the last part of you sentence, but I came to that conclusion earlier, when watching Silverstone. And then the whining of LH over the radio last week when -under a red flag- MV changed tyres. Half of LH's car was rebuilt under a red flag in Silverstone when MV was taken to the hospital.
    This day there was the complaining about Perez keeping LH off his back "He's driving dangerously man!" That sounds like a soccer player asking the referee to pull a yellow card for a player of the other team. Enough examples of LH trying to bend the rules in his favour.

    Another angle: ask yourself why only the drivers on the (future) Mercedes payroll wanted to see LH win this season. And I wouldn't be surprised when VB opens a book about this season in a few years time.

  41. #591
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    And Hamilton should have had a punish for cutting the corner in lap 1 today...
    Verstappen got that last week in Jeddah for the same reason

  42. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    I agree with the last part of you sentence, but I came to that conclusion earlier, when watching Silverstone. And then the whining of LH over the radio last week when -under a red flag- MV changed tyres. Half of LH's car was rebuilt under a red flag in Silverstone when MV was taken to the hospital.
    This day there was the complaining about Perez keeping LH off his back "He's driving dangerously man!" That sounds like a soccer player asking the referee to pull a yellow card for a player of the other team. Enough examples of LH trying to bend the rules in his favour.

    Another angle: ask yourself why only the drivers on the (future) Mercedes payroll wanted to see LH win this season. And I wouldn't be surprised when VB opens a book about this season in a few years time.
    I have to say that I thought Perez raced correctly, especially since he was fighting for the lead at that time. Sure - LH had to always make sure that they didn’t collide as he had it all to lose- but that is his risk.

  43. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    ... and we Dutch don't care. Had it been given to LH, the same 'ifs and buts' would have sticked to his victory.

    This time the dice rolled good for Max. In Silverstone, the dice thrown by Masi rolled good for Lewis with only 10 sec penalty after ousting Verstappen where they should have taken away his points like they warned both LH and MV to do in Abu Dhabi this weekend in case of an accident.
    Punt uit!

  44. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVE View Post
    Punt uit!
    Zo is dat !!

  45. #595
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    Totally disgraceful management by the Stewards, their level of incompetence reached a new low

    I'm not really a Hamilton fan, but he was robbed ........ and Red Bull know it

  46. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillN View Post
    Totally disgraceful management by the Stewards, their level of incompetence reached a new low

    I'm not really a Hamilton fan, but he was robbed ........ and Red Bull know it
    Robbed?
    You mean not pampered for once?

  47. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveya. View Post
    Except to the first corner right? After that he had the fastest car so whatevs.

    'supports your trolling' come on Chris get a grip , I've no issue with what happened , none at all.
    Soz - I am angry how this has played out, it has not been good for the sport.

    MV has charged hard over the season for sure but the end result is (I feel) not representative of talents or effort.

    I have an issue, but I accept your view (whilst I do not agree).

    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  48. #598
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Soz - I am angry how this has played out, it has not been good for the sport.

    MV has charged hard over the season for sure but the end result is (I feel) not representative of talents or effort.

    I have an issue, but I accept your view (whilst I do not agree).

    Appreciate that, I was being flippant and apologise also, too early, sport can get under your skin



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  49. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by gortz View Post
    And Hamilton should have had a punish for cutting the corner in lap 1 today...
    Verstappen got that last week in Jeddah for the same reason
    C'mon... Lewis avoided a certain collision, yes there was a small gap and fair play to Max for having a go but neither would have stayed on the track had Lewis stuck to his line, Max was going at a speed that forced him out wide right to the edge of the white line, two cars wouldn't fit in that space..

    All the bluff to one side, Mercedes had the faster car and driver over the last couple of races, actually Max got put to bed today and he was never going to catch Lewis, RB and Max got through on technicalities which is a shame especially for your first WDC..

  50. #600
    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    C'mon... Lewis avoided a certain collision, yes there was a small gap and fair play to Max for having a go but neither would have stayed on the track had Lewis stuck to his line, Max was going at a speed that forced him out wide right to the edge of the white line, two cars wouldn't fit in that space..

    All the bluff to one side, Mercedes had the faster car and driver over the last couple of races, actually Max got put to bed today and he was never going to catch Lewis, RB and Max got through on technicalities which is a shame especially for your first WDC..
    I don't think racing drivers at that level care. Schumacher didn't when he ran Hill off the track. I'm sure he'll . Max saw the gap and rightly went threw it, I'm certain in his head he got justice later and after all the season was a long one. I suspect at that level of sport winning is what matters

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