Fast cars and UK roads...

[W44NNE]

I'm on the look-out for a weekend car and was dead set on the Porsche Boxster. I went looking at a 2.7 and fell in love with the way it drove, but more importantly, the noise it made. I never expected a Boxster to have such an incredible engine note. The only thing I noticed was that the engine appeared to lack torque so through the gears, it didn't actually feel too quick. I'll come back to this.

So after the 2.7 test drive, I thought about a faster car, and set my sights on a Boxster s 3.2. This adds more torque and an extra 40 BHP or so, without too much difference in fuel economy etc. Then, last night, I spotted a BMW Z4M not too far from me. It's a car I knew about but not too much, so I looked at a few reviews to gain some knowledge. It's basically a hot rod. It has the BMW M3 343bhp engine and all the toys in the world, including THE loudest sound system I've ever heard this side of a cinema!!

I decided to see if it would fit the bill, after all, I was after a fast soft top car. Well, I can't say I've been scared in a car ever, but it certainly hasn't been for a while. F*** me!!! Normally I frown upon people driving like k***s on a test drive, but the guy took me down the road first for us to exchange at a later point. We came out of his road sideways and then I remember a bend coming up that I honestly thought he'd over-cooked it on, and I think my life flashed before my eyes lol. It was silly quick, and by today's standards, it's not even a super fast car. 0-60 in around 4.8 seconds and whatever top speed in a tiny roadster (much shorted than a Boxster). It was mental.

However, it just made me think that cars can actually be TOO fast for our roads. This car would get you into trouble very easily at the end of the day, and I'm not sure if that's what I want. The Boxster S is slower than the Z4M but still very quick overall. I'm yet to drive an S but I'm starting to look at the 2.7 more seriously now. I found that although the 2.7 didn't "feel" the quickest car ever, this was in some ways a good thing. As I say, the engine sounded amazing to me, so being able to drive through the gears for longer, may actually be more exciting and less troublesome than in a faster car. I'm going to try a Boxster S and put my theory to the test, but when I think back, of all the cars I've had, some of the most fun have been the slowest.

Is this just me or has anyone else thought the same?

[steviefleming]

I decided to see if it would fit the bill, after all, I was after a fast soft top car. Well, I can't say I've been scared in a car ever, but it certainly hasn't been for a while. F*** me!!! Normally I frown upon people driving like k***s on a test drive, but the guy took me down the road first for us to exchange at a later point. We came out of his road sideways and then I remember a bend coming up that I honestly thought he'd over-cooked it on, and I think my life flashed before my eyes lol. It was silly quick, and by today's standards, it's not even a super fast car. 0-60 in around 4.8 seconds and whatever top speed in a tiny roadster (much shorted than a Boxster). It was mental.

Jeez......sends shivers down my spine.

Reminds me of my then local Subaru garage (shut down shortly after) here in Perth , when the Subaru salesman took out a GP for a test drive in a Subaru Imprezza and bloody killed him showing it off....they got less than five miles out of Perth when he lost it on a corner doing over 90mph on the country road.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...crash-1.261050

I've never had a salesman drive me out of a garage for a test drive ???.....I've always driven the car from the forecourt out , round a route and back in ....is it common to do a switch ?


Anyway , after that downer .......have you tried the BMW 1 series M coupe ??? (A lot less hairdresser than the Z4 !)

[Fords]

Ha Ha only yesterday I had the Merc in for MOT and went out in the C63 totally mental, spine numbingly uncomfortable, it's like taking a very very angry tiger for a walk on a very short lead. The roads are crap doing 30 is virtually impossible, when I got out I felt knackered and drained. + I felt everyone down Ashton Road had looked into my soul and wished me dead.


But it's awesome, just rev it at the lights and everything submits, children cry and the God fearing bring out there nigh boards.


I am still getting over the bit on the M60.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Been saying this for years, most modern cars can do 100mph very easily.

It's not just the speed, it's the way that speed is felt in the car, go back 20 years you knew when you were doing 60 mph in a car- it's very easy to speed in most modern cars.

[Dazzler]

It's not the cars that's the problem, it's when people overestimate their talent (as well as road conditions and a good degree of inconsideration in many cases).

I have had an Elise for 11 years now with no driver aids and it's a hoot to drive but I have only had one incident in it (a hairy 100yd powerslide onto a motorway in the wet due to a heavy right foot). I went to advanced driver training for rear wheel cars and all my enthusiastic mistakes have been on the track.

Get the car and enjoy it, drive it mostly responsibilily and hoon around roundabouts where you can do no damage.

Take it on track to explore the car. Have a good one - make sure you get a convertible for summer!

[thieuster]

I think you are right, W44NNE.

Originally, a human being is designed to propel himself at 6kms/hr(...) Every km (mile) faster is no problem as long as you can handle it - mentally and physically. And I think it's a good thing when you decide that 2.7 is enough for you to enjoy.

Just get the car you feel most comfortable with. Enjoy the summer!

Menno

[Huertecilla]

I ám a racer at heart.

I have been racing in competition for 23 year with just about everything on wheels. Have licenses for anything without wings, incl. emergency vehicles.

My opinion is that if you love driving this does not combine with fast cars and open roads; that equals frustration and risc for the rest of the world.

The fastest car I would allow myself to have is a GT86 and the car I dream of against better judgement is a standard 1600cc engined Lotus Europa S2.

[senwar]

I had a Z4MC for 2.5yrs and loved every second of it.

An absolute beast of a car to drive and I still miss it 5yrs later.

My only regret was not taking it over to the Autobahn's and Nurbergring to drive it properly.

[mr_fantazmo]

I've just bought a BMW e90 325i and although it isn't the fastest car in the world (my old Renault megane sport 225 is actually quicker) the engine note from the 6 cylinder engine is just dreamy especially when you can rev it up to 7000 rpm . It's a naturally aspirated engine so there is zero turbo lag. You just need to make sure you're in the right gear when you want it to move!

So on that basis I'd be tempted to stick with your gut and go for the 2.7 boxster

[BrianT]

I'm sure many cars are too fast for our roads. Likewise many are too fast for your average driver.

[andy armitage]

Hi W44NNE

I do agree with you there about some cars just being too much, I think I have the perfect roadster it's a BMW Z4 3.0si sport mine is the 2007 facelift model and I adore it and I would say there is more than enough power in my car as it has 265 bhp and when pushed it just goes like a rocket! I did have thoughts on an M but there is no point as when I push mine it is just incredible and the road tax on the M is £450 a year compared to my 3.0 at £280 a year, oh and my 3.0 sounds amazing as well, it might be worth checking the 3.0si out. Mine is a 2007 car over £35k new and I got mine for £10k with just under 30k on the clock and a full BMW service history.

[stooo]

At risk of sounding like an old codger, I fully agree. Outright power does not equated directly to fun.

It's be interesting for OP to test one of those Toyota / Subaru things in this context. To see if the design ethic of those does work.

[Jeremy67]

This is why I enjoy my Sprite so much. It's a bit tuned over standard, enough power to overtake in most situations but runs out of puff at 90. I can still take many corners at the legal speed limit or more (on 145 cheap tyres) and enjoy pushing a car to the limit but the speeds are relatively sensible.

Tbh, you can make most cars sound like a million dollars. Our MX-5 has a stainless sports system on it (simply because it was the cheapest available when we needed a new exhaust) and it sounds fantastic when revved hard.

[W44NNE]

Phew! I thought I was getting old! :-D

I think my plan should be to test drive the 3.2 and then make the decision. I knew somebody would mention the GT86 :-) It's not a car I've driven but I think it would be out of my price range, plus it isn't a convertible. However it's a car with that sort of ethic that I fancy as they're 0-60 in 8 secs or something but handle and sound really good apparently.

[Foxy100]

I had a 3.2 Boxster S and found it dull to drive, it had so much grip you had to be going very fast indeed for it to become interesting, by which point you were going too fast to be messing around. The car I had most fun with on the road was a Noble M12 GTO 3R. Rather fast but also bereft of driver aids, you could hang the tail out relatively easily but it didn't try to kill you. Apart from in the wet. My Healey doesn't have much grip or braking ability so going fast is great fun too, but you do have to wrestle with it a lot of the time and the fear of instant death from any kind of accident probably adds something too. I suppose it comes down to what you want. Anyone can go out and buy a very quick car now but they mostly come ready fitted with a certain level of idiot proofing, which takes away some of the fun. I still can't get past the Boxster weighing 1,300kg but I can't see them making a 900kg stripped out roadster with skinny tyres anytime soon. The Toyota GT86 is heading in the right direction, hopefully soon we'll have cars with less grip, weight and power and there'll be a nice selection of interesting new cars out there.

[paulpsz008]

I've just bought a 1989 1.6 MR2, partially for this reason.
You can drive it at 10/10ths whilst still under the speed limit.

[Foxy100]

This is why I enjoy my Sprite so much. It's a bit tuned over standard, enough power to overtake in most situations but runs out of puff at 90. I can still take many corners at the legal speed limit or more (on 145 cheap tyres) and enjoy pushing a car to the limit but the speeds are relatively sensible.

Tbh, you can make most cars sound like a million dollars. Our MX-5 has a stainless sports system on it (simply because it was the cheapest available when we needed a new exhaust) and it sounds fantastic when revved hard.

I wasn't going to mention the MX-5 but have just noticed you have already!

[Jeremy67]

I had a 3.2 Boxster S and found it dull to drive, it had so much grip you had to be going very fast indeed for it to become interesting, by which point you were going too fast to be messing around. The car I had most fun with on the road was a Noble M12 GTO 3R. Rather fast but also bereft of driver aids, you could hang the tail out relatively easily but it didn't try to kill you. Apart from in the wet. My Healey doesn't have much grip or braking ability so going fast is great fun too, but you do have to wrestle with it a lot of the time and the fear of instant death from any kind of accident probably adds something too. I suppose it comes down to what you want. Anyone can go out and buy a very quick car now but they mostly come ready fitted with a certain level of idiot proofing, which takes away some of the fun. I still can't get past the Boxster weighing 1,300kg but I can't see them making a 900kg stripped out roadster with skinny tyres anytime soon. The Toyota GT86 is heading in the right direction, hopefully soon we'll have cars with less grip, weight and power and there'll be a nice selection of interesting new cars out there.

And note, not a single mention of the M word (unlike me).

[SimonK]

Nothing to do with modern cars in my view and experience. I got my first speeding ticket two weeks after buying my first car in 1979 - a shagged, 9 year old Ford Capri 1600 GT XLR.

[CamCG]

...However, it just made me think that cars can actually be TOO fast for our roads.

In my experience, this is the thought process after buying a new car which is noticeably quicker than the one you had previously:

* You spend the first few weeks thinking "Wow, this is all the car I'll ever need - I can't believe anybody would ever need something quicker on British roads".

* You spend the next few weeks after that thinking "Well, I seem to be coming to terms with this extra power / torque pretty well now - this seems to be about the right amount for me".

* You spend all the time after that thinking "Well, this is a reasonable amount of power / torque, but I'd really like more!"

(When I reference speed etc. above, I mean acceleration rather than top speed)

For all the mention of power / speed, though, I do agree with some comments above that a fast car can be a dull car and vice versa.

[Jeremy67]

I used to have an automatic Metro (1.3 I'll have you know) it was such fun to drive, a dodgem for the roads.

[Omegamanic]

The 2.7 is a great car. But the3.2, or 3.4 can be enjoyed at a less frenetic pace - the torque is fantastic - for example I dropped the 3.2 off last night and left it in a higher gear - through run-a-bouts in 3rd gear etc. Then jumped in my Audi TDI to come home in, and it felt like it had NO torque - when I'm sure the TDI has more than the Porsche.

I have said that in the cayman I'd want the 2.7 with Chrono and 6 speed box - but ultimately I'd go for the Cayman R if I had the choice.

The GT86 had no grip, a crap gear change, no power and no torque - I like them, but any comparisons with the Cayman or a Boxster are ludicrous.

I dont not find there is too much grip in the Boxster - just turn the traction control off and control the slides through the corners - it's awesome!

[Backward point]

There are many reasons why fast cars and UK roads are incompatible:


Idiots who drive too slowly
Idiots who drive too fast for their ability and/or that of their car
Idiots who drive as though here is nobody else on the road
Idiots for whom concentrating on their driving is very, very low on their list of priorities
Idiots for whom passing their driving test was the pinnacle of their driving achievements
Idiots who have never bothered with a driving test
Idiots who are uninsured (usually combined with never having bothered with a driving test)
Idiot commercial vehicle drivers who consider that they have some sort of divine right of way

The state of the roads

All too often people buy fast cars and don't have the faintest idea what to do with them. They drive fast if the road is straight, but either become timid and confused by corners, or lack any understanding of what to do with one. These are the types who confuse weight transfer with roadholding, working on the theory that barrelling into a corner and scrubbing off speed by pushing the tyres beyond their limit of lateral grip equals "fast". These are the types who gladly bore others with their tales of "getting it sideways" or "a tank slapper" but would never consider a track day, because they know that their lack of talent would be exposed at the first corner.

Buying a fast car to use on the roads of the populated parts of England is either an exercise in futility or vanity for 99% of the time.

I'm looking for a BMW 335D. For use in the real world, it's the fastest car that you can buy. I've owned many fast cars, including a Caterham, but the opportunities to enjoy them on a fast, flowing section of open road are minimal. In a fast car, you're always behind someone slower. Usually much slower.

There's a section of the A272 from Petworth towards Midhurst, which contains my favourite corner, a right hander over a brow immediately followed by a dip and a left hander up the other side of the dip. It's a real roller-coaster of a combination, and the Caterham was made for it. I often used to wait in a layby for a long enough gap in the traffic to be able to enjoy it properly. But it needed a long gap so that I didn't catch the car in front before the exit of the left hander.

Sure, you can try to justify something fast on the basis that it's worth it for that 1% of the time when the planets align and you can actually enjoy it. Or perhaps you live in a sparsely populated area with decent roads. But most of the time you're forced to share your road space with the incompetents and numpties listed above, and you're faced with the fact that you actually spent the money trying to get laid.

[Omegamanic]

Do any women, apart from school girls, really care what car you drive?

I don't mind what car they drive, quite a few of them would get laid if they drove a Trabant!

[PhilipK]

I, too, have a Z4M Roadster and an M5.

It is all but impossible to exploit their performance on British roads. If it's not fear of speed cameras, it's other motorists who just see a car as a way of getting from A to B and so do nothing to assist you in pressing on - the art of overtaking is all but lost, so you come across convoys of cars all travelling at whatever speed the first car in the pack has chosen, but with no gaps which would allow you to pick them off one by one. At night, on B roads, people seem to have a pathological fear of switching on their high beams, so you can't see what the road is doing in front of them. And if you do get past, then there's probably a bloody great pothole waiting for you.

Add to this the cost of running an "M". I've done under 1,000 miles in the last year in the Z4M, but I'm faced with the VED (which is now £500 - I have the renewal notice here - not £450 as previously mentioned), plus it's due an Inspection II (£1,000+), not to mention MoT, insurance and £500+ spent on repairs (power steering return pipe and low tone horn).

My MX-5 (hey, I'm not the first to mention it!), on the other hand, costs almost nothing to run and provides lots of fun at attainable speeds. It does lack this, however:

[Rob (NZ)]

I've just bought a 1989 1.6 MR2, partially for this reason.
You can drive it at 10/10ths whilst still under the speed limit.

I was after an example from the very end of the production, but had to make do with a mid-1985.

It's when you get up around 4500-5000rpm in 2nd gear on twisty (and preferably uphill) roads that the fun begins - and then power shift into 3rd (just as you're about to hit the rev limiter) if the road will allow you to carry more speed.

Rob.

[Bazzman]

I have to say, after a succession of Minis, fast Fords, BMWs, Mercedes, an Audi A6 (never bonded with that car, dunno why), Porsche, and now a BMW again, the car I seriously had the most fun in was a 602cc Citroen 2CV6.
Now I’m not suggesting for a second you should buy one of those instead of a Boxster, or indeed a Beemer, but the 2CV was one car I could drive flat out, pedal to the metal, all the time.
In fact that’s the way you simply HAD to drive it, as any time you lost on the corners or bendy bits took for ever to get back.
My point is that almost all modern cars can’t be driven hard on the open road, as you get to “Good Morning Officer” far too quickly.
A car that is fun to drive hard doesn’t have to go stupidly fast, just be fun getting there

[Jim W]

Ha Ha only yesterday I had the Merc in for MOT and went out in the C63 totally mental, spine numbingly uncomfortable, it's like taking a very very angry tiger for a walk on a very short lead. The roads are crap doing 30 is virtually impossible, when I got out I felt knackered and drained. + I felt everyone down Ashton Road had looked into my soul and wished me dead.


But it's awesome, just rev it at the lights and everything submits, children cry and the God fearing bring out there nigh boards.


I am still getting over the bit on the M60.

It depends how you want to drive it. The C63 is a pussycat in Comfort mode.
I've got an E63 which is just as bonkers in Sport or Sport+ but nice and easy to drive the rest of the time.

[stiglet]

I had an e60 M5 V10 and a base (122bhp) Elise S2 at the same time.

One was expensive, only "fun" at licence-losing speeds and compete pain the rest of the time(IMHO).

The other was a delight - and I may well have another one day.

No prizes for guessing which was which

[Fords]

It depends how you want to drive it. The C63 is a pussycat in Comfort mode.
I've got an E63 which is just as bonkers in Sport or Sport+ but nice and easy to drive the rest of the time.

Around Manchester it's a nightmare driving with your foot on the brake. the setting didn't really change the suspension much at all it was very firm (to firm) the E63 is a lot heavier this was the coup version so possibly a little lighter on the rear end than the saloon C63.


but it was mostly

[Huertecilla]

The GT86 had no grip, a crap gear change, no power and no torque - I like them, but any comparisons with the Cayman or a Boxster are ludicrous.

You totally do not get the crux.
1. Nobody even suggests you can compare. I for one certainly do not as the concepts are FUNDAMENTALLY different: The Porsches are designed for maximum speeds/performance. The GT86 is designed for max fun at the LOWEST ditto.
2. The tread issue is speed/power on the open road in relation to fun.

As to lack of torque; it does have torque just not low end grunt. The engine revs like crazy and is perfectly responsive. You need to DRIVE the thing versus lazy pedal stomping. Again; it is about controlled use of traction. A revvy engine is essential to give range. Grunt is irrelevant even counter productive for the purpose.

Ditto the no grip. It does have grip but you must realise that the thing is designed to slide in an easily controlled manner early. The revvy engine greatly assists in this.
That is the whole point of this car:
More fun with less power/speed

It is the by far and then some best modern drivers' car around while offering thus at the safests speeds.
If only my lover would give me one, well ...nah, there is better fun still

As to the MX5.
Good candidate that needs very little modding to be safe fun at low speeds.

[Huertecilla]

A car that is fun to drive hard doesn’t have to go stupidly fast, just be fun getting there

And THAT is the crux. Not penis surrogate useless grunt/power/speed potential.

[TheFlyingBanana]

I've had many high-performance cars over the years - supercharged Jags, 911's, TVR's etc.

I have to say, that the most complete package overall is my current car - an Audi TT 3.2V6. It was the very last of the line before they went to the Turbocharged 2.0 4cyl. For driving I prefer the sound and response of the V6, although the 2.0 is actually slightly more powerful.

I have stacked over 40,000 miles on it in the last two and a half-years, and it hasn't missed a beat. It is great to drive, hugs the road, very responsive and very safe. Loads of grunt (0-60 is 5.6 secs and possibly quicker - so faster than a Boxster or Cayman), and with the miraculous DSG semi-auto box and magnetic suspension it can be relaxing to drive as well as very stimulating fun.

Does it have the greatness of a 911? No, not quite. The visceral fury of a TVR? No, it is much more refined. Similarly, it doesn't have the ballistic acceleration of a supercharged Jag V8, but then it doesn't inhale fuel like an investment banker on an all expenses paid cocaine run to Amsterdam.

What it does do, though, is everything very, very well. It is beautifully built, has a proper boot, seats for the kids in the back, is easy to maintain (and not too expensive), is a 4x4, is pretty light, has a fabulous Bose sound system, all the toys, and looks great (mine has a very tasteful but dramatic Audi full aero bodykit).

In fact it ticks all my boxes so well I will almost certainly have another as my daily driver - either the bonkers fast TTRS, or possibly a S5.

[Rod]

[QUOTE=Dazzler;3144002]It's not the cars that's the problem, it's when people overestimate their talent (as well as road conditions and a good degree of inconsideration in many cases)./QUOTE]

As long as one doesn't drive like the bunch of idiots I had to contend with recently. There was a Porsche drivers outing (15 or more) in the Yorkshire Dales near Hawes and they were hell bent on overtaking vehicles... didn't matter if there were double white lines or bends, they went for it. I had to pull over to let them past because they were an accident waiting to happen regardless of agricultural vehicles pulling out of fields and farms.

Rod

[Jim W]

Around Manchester it's a nightmare driving with your foot on the brake. the setting didn't really change the suspension much at all it was very firm (to firm) the E63 is a lot heavier this was the coup version so possibly a little lighter on the rear end than the saloon C63.

Well, Ive never driven a C63, but I've owned my E63 for three years, and am amazed just how civlised it really is, - just as civilised as a diesel.

95% of the time it's in Comfort mode, it's soft and comfortable, the engine response is 'mild', with slow gear changes, it isn't biting the bit to get away from you. Change mode and suspension then the 525hp V8 can get really crazy, and the car is a match for most supercars on a race track. I am sure most Mercedes dealers will hav a C63 and an E63 available for test drive. Try it yourself.

At this point I should add what a great used buy an E63 is...
My car cost me £83,000 with options when it was new. Now three years old with 23,000 miles its worth about £35k!

A friend said to me that he'd like to buy a used E63 but was worried about finding one that hasn't been thrashed.
Well as an owner I can say don't worry about that.
On English roads it is absolutely impossible to thrash an E63 without getting into a whole bunch of trouble. And even when you do occasionally drive it 'like you stole it' there's no harm done, the car is built to do it.

[langtoft lad]

Sign of old age...
Appreciating when you're outside of your comfort zone, your abilities, in the environment using the equipment.

Of course you don't have to drive it to its limits !

[Huertecilla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xAVE6V7Zu4

[Corporalsparrow]

I've just shared a track with several corse Ferraris, GT challenge Porsches, works Lotus's, Ginetta G55's, Radicals of every kind, works Astons, a Maclaren P1, even a 250SWB and by far the scariest thing was being tailgated on the M40 coming home.

If I could have shot that dimwitted tosser, I would have.

(Incidentally, I've also spent a day on a circuit with the Toyota GT86 and I thought it was wonderful. No, of course it's not the fastest car, but there weren't many others that had the balance, poise and sweet free-revving nature that the the Toyota has. Grip levels were low, but it was very easy drift, an attribute you can use to your advantage to 'flow' out of some corners.)

[DavidL]

I agree especially in the south. Maybe its different oop north with a bit more space or if you are prepared to get up at silly oclock just to go for a drive, which I'm not.
I had (well still have strictly speaking) a 500bhp 996 turbo and whilst hate is a bit strong I don't miss it. It does silly quick very well but you just can't use it on the road. Trips to inlaws on a Sunday still encounters lots of traffic and either you drive like a hooligan or you go as fast as the car infront.
It is also a sign of getting old or perhaps having been there and done that and seen the issues for yourself. Its one of those where you can't be told as it doesn't make sense but all becomes clear when you live with it for a while.
First child is on the way very soon so I'll stick to my mildly tuned 944 turbo (thanks christ noone wnated to buy it) and then maybe I'll look at a cerbera or a 928 in a year or so. I think 350bhp in a good GT is about right. Speed when you need it but a comfortable cruise otherwise. Comfortable - christ I must be getting old!

[mac83]

just one point to make about modern cars needing to drive stupidly fast to be fun. If you do turn off traction control etc off its possible to have fun at low speeds. You just need to have skill to control it.

[vRSG60]

the art of overtaking is all but lost, so you come across convoys of cars all travelling at whatever speed the first car in the pack has chosen, but with no gaps which would allow you to pick them off one by one.

This is the thing that really galls me too.

[bobdog]

Changed my SL500 as great as it was it just wasnt exciting enough, bought a E92 M3, 420bhp and silly fast. They are a fantastic car and as much as I love it I have come to the conclusion it is far too fast for modern roads and traffic, there are fast cars that are set up as grand tourers which you are quite happy plodding along in but the M3 is set up to go fast and it makes you want to go fast which can get you into all sorts of trouble on todays roads. As somebody has already stated if I was the OP I would limit my choices to a max of 350bhp and preferably aim for 300bhp.

[SimonK]

Do any women, apart from school girls, really care what car you drive?

The answer is here, listen and learn

[Huertecilla]

Sign of old age...
Appreciating when you're outside of your comfort zone, your abilities, in the environment using the equipment.

Of course you don't have to drive it to its limits !

So just show it off???
Whatever that 'it' may be when you don't use 'it'.

Girls DO care. Not about what you drive but about how you drive. The common denominator is that they are impressed by confident skill making them feel safe.
So applied to the comfort zone it means a confident skill level within the boundaries of public roads regardless of the car. A clearly overpowered car for public road/driver skills simply makes one look pathetic.
Per example the guys in supercars cruising the Puerto Banus boulevard only attract the gold diggers/bimbos looking for an easy meal ticket from a tosser.
If you want to impress a girl; drive WELL. Safe with just enough fun to add some spice MAYBE and then mild only. Get an advanced driving course or so. Not a stable of horses too many.

[Dazzler]

It's not the cars that's the problem, it's when people overestimate their talent (as well as road conditions and a good degree of inconsideration in many cases).

As long as one doesn't drive like the bunch of idiots I had to contend with recently. There was a Porsche drivers outing (15 or more) in the Yorkshire Dales near Hawes and they were hell bent on overtaking vehicles... didn't matter if there were double white lines or bends, they went for it. I had to pull over to let them past because they were an accident waiting to happen regardless of agricultural vehicles pulling out of fields and farms.

Rod

Fully agree, I never went on the Lotus runs for that reason, however most were considerate drivers on the whole.


Good thing about a heap of torque and horsepower is that you can get past slow people though. It's funny, here in the Saudi the driving can be crazy but there is rarely malice in it - but the UK with all it's 'good drivers' is far worse/frustrating to drive in, too many agressive territorial drivers on single carriageways - usually slow but won't move over. Just come back from Dallas and it's fabulously well mannered driving, never have I seen such lane discipline.

[PDE]

Most modern cars on sale today can't be used anywhere near their potential on the roads here.
That doesn't stop people wanting ever faster cars, quite a few on here are included in that!

To me, the point of having a nice/fast car is that even if I'm stuck in traffic, I'm stuck in it in a nice car!
Then when the opportunity to use some of its potential comes up, I can just enjoy the time available.

Of course, the answer is a TZ-UK track day!


Dan

[Jeremy67]

This is the thing that really galls me too.

Me too along with those that speed up when you go to overtake.

[j0hnbarker]

For fun I drive either a 1986 BMW 635CSI or a 1989 VW Golf GTI16v.

Both were quick cars in their day but would be destroyed by most of today's hatches. I often get people wanting to race me in the Golf but I just let them by.

It depresses me how many people just want to thrap their average cars around like lunatics. One of the reasons I parted with my TD5 Discovery was that I was sick of people up my arse every morning on my way to work. As the journey involved lots of roundabouts, I was invariably slow away in my two-tonne + diesel shed from each one, and I was spending more time looking in the mirrors to check what the other drivers were doing than I was looking at the road ahead.

Most people are below-average drivers and modern cars sometimes cover up their inadequacies with their decent brakes and handling. Put them in a faster, older car where some driving skill and thought is required and they'd be toast. It's just a shame most of them don't realise this.

[Kingstepper]

Most people are below-average drivers and modern cars sometimes cover up their inadequacies with their decent brakes and handling.

Why is the average so high then?

[j0hnbarker]

Why is the average so high then?

Is this some statistical in-joke?

I could just rephrase and say most drivers possess a poor skill set and inflated sense of competence if that's better?