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So, reading this ^
which is consistent with this v
https://i.imgur.com/wArt5yD.png
do we think that Rolex CAN replicate the lost card?
If they can.....
Even if they couldn't (which let's be honest, all signs point to them being able to do so) they could have quite simply taken a low value stock model and used the card from that for exchange.
Then selling the low value model as second hand without warranty card in order to keep all customer happy. As others have said, I will never use that jewellers after reading this.
Sounds like the OP is pleased with his deal for the lost card. Well done.
Personally and after having concluded my deal with the AD, I would now chase after Rolex UK for my lost card.
When likely told by Rolex after an initial letter that I have to deal with the selling AD I would share my corresponded from said AD illustrating that I as the customer was directly told that the card is unable to be replaced. How would they like me to proceed?
My gut tells me that in a few months time and after a few more phone calls I would have a warranty card or at least official correspondence from Rolex UK basically doing the same thing as the card should. To me, that would be a win win.
However one might question the morality of this or maybe question It I might be black listed by the AD. I should hopefully think not as I accepted the ADs word that they could not replace the card and as such struck a deal resulting in me buying watch, particularly an omega as I didn’t want to bother with the warranty card issue again. I would be clear in my correspondence that I played by the ADs rules and trusted them to do what was right.
My dealings with Rolex have nothing to do with them as I was acting as my own ‘agent’ with Rolex UK and not using them, the AD as my agent. I would hope this approach would teach two things. As Harry Potter learned... you should not tell lies and my AD should learn this lesson. Secondly that Rolex should perhaps spend time supporting ADs to retain cards and have some kind of procedure in place so to not look ignorant and perhaps ill prepared for what was always likely to happen.
I am glad the OP is happy.
I am surprised people are arguing with Haywood,if anyone has Rolex knowledge its him not some bloke of the internet.
Long as op is happy then it's a winner but won't be choice of outcome
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I suppose Pragnell have read this thread.
Not very good for their reputation.
Nothing should be surprising about what's said on the internet and indeed on this forum. It's also a topic that is not clear-cut, even Haywood admits this (from my reading of his posts anyway). Another reason for the differing views on this thread.
I'm disappointed by Pragnells - either they don't know their own business, or they purposely chose to not provide the honest response.
+1
I’m glad the OP is happy.
If I ever end up at the top of my AD’s list, which I doubt, then I would certainly ask the question about what happens in a year if the guarantee is unavailable due to human error. I would try to get something in writing.
D
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This.
Pragnells are a jeweller with an impeccable reputation and I’m really surprised (and disappointed) that they did not push back at Roles, whilst admitting it was their negligence which led to this situation.
If there wasn’t this stupid retention policy, endorsed by Rolex, then this issue could not have arisen.
Were it me, I would be very hacked off in this situation and would be liaising directly with Rolex.
There are three issues here:
1. Most important is the OP. Is he happy with the outcome/solution?
It seems he is. Let us stop being offended by proxy
2. Will/can Rolex issue a replacement card? The answer is most likely-yes, based on the
Convincing case made by HM
3. Is the ire with Pragnell justified? I am not so sure. I would put a lot of faith in Orcale’s endorsement and
others experiences and OP’s experience. The unfortunate situation with Rolex leaves most people with a need
to find someone to blame or take out their frustrations on and no one more convenient than the AD. I see some
Of that here. I don’t think the AD is not asking Rolex to avoid having to pay for the warranty card or to get him to
return the watch.
1. If a naive seller is offered £500 for an old Paul Newman Daytona, but is happy, would it be unreasonable for us to discuss that? I would contend that his happiness is one aspect, the correct and fair handling of the problem possibly another - and fit matter for a watch forum.
2. Goldsmiths dolly writes wrong name on warranty card for diamond-loaded white gold Pearlmaster. Green streak observed flying from West Malling direction.
3. Did they sell him a watch for many thousands of pounds but retain his warranty card? Did they then lose it? Did they then do all they could to resolve the position with his best interests to the fore, restoring his position or putting him in a better one? Did they explore and advise him correctly of all available remedies?
I am betting the OP never envisaged what a can of worms he was opening when he turned to the forum for advice on his travails with Pragnell's. He wanted advice and he has had that in spades!!
As DMR are currently holding 3 of my warranty cards I intend to call in later and run this scenario by the manager who has been in the Rolex game for 25 years and see what their approach would be should I suffer a similar fate.
Lol, I don’t want to argue with you, HM.
May be you know something about that particular AD that we don’t. It is possible and I would understand you may not want to spell it out Ina public forum.
I don’t think the OP is hard done by in this situation. Probably not an optimal outcome.
The main question in my mind is- Did the AD know that it is possible to gat a replacement card and yet lie to the OP or the person handling it is not aware of it?
If it is former, obviously reprehensible.
I just want to give them benefit of doubt based on available info about hem.
OK.
As I said before: AD loses OP's card and ends up selling him another watch.
I wish I got more business every time I screwed up.
Who is out of pocket here? Maybe no one. Maybe both parties.
As you said, as long as the OP is happy.
(I wish I had clients like that! In my line of work -- I'm Vicar -- that would be something like "Sorry I messed up your mum's funeral; can I offer you a discount on a wedding?" No refund, nothing for free, just a discount.)
I am not sure that he followed it, albeit that he is happy.
Not in the least. I am sure they are upstanding and David (Oracle's) testimonial carries significant weight. Sometimes even the best get an individual case wrong and that's the limited scope of this discussion.
I have no idea but I find it hard to believe they bother with the haters, fanboys and nutters on the internet.
You'd need a team of thousands just to keep up and to what end?
I'd rather they read this, anyway:
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...41#post5252241
My colleague (wolfman here on tz-uk) raises an interesting scenario. Imagine :
Your card has been given incorrectly to someone else.
Their watch is then stolen.
Very reasonably they, their insurers and the police all record the case number of the stolen watch as that shown on the warranty card erroneously supplied by the main agent.
At some later point, you then try to have your watch serviced, or to sell it.
Watch held / police called ?
In due course you could prove that you had paid for it and what had happened, but not perhaps without some significant messing around first...
Or...your card is given to the wrong customer who somehow also received their correct one. Realizing this they sell said card for £500 which becomes attached to a fake watch but now containing a genuine serial number with card to prove it. A quick thinker then sends in the watch for a service.
Where does this go!?!?
As above... it only goes one way when the genuine watch heads in for a service.
The problem isn’t unique to the current withholding cards policy.
Watches have been sold on here with wrong cards, presumably given in error by AD.
This is a problem of Rolex's own making: they artificially restrict supply of certain models and thereby create not only demand but also a re-sale market for those who want to jump the queue (the entirely manufactured "waiting list").
Then they instruct (or recommend? andis that really the same thing?) that ADs withhold cards for 12 months to prevent immediate re-sale at profit.
Then they charge for and/or are ambiguous about replacing any cards mislaid by the ADs.
They could just turn on the taps and meet, more or less, demand.
I understand why they don't (or won't).
They then should at least support ADs and/or customers whose cards get lost during that retention period: a period, remember, created by Rolex themselves.
Now stop for a moment.
Imagine you are not a member of tz-uk, not a "WIS" or whatever.
Explain this scenario to a person on the street.
Better still, an intelligent, knowledgable person. Someone who understands the basics of business and money and law and psychology. Not an expert, just your average white collar management or professional. Someone with a degree in any subject and another one from the university of life. Your brother or colleague or wife.
I think they would be incredulous -- at Rolex, at the ADs and at us, the buyers. (Well, I say "us", I mean you or some of you: not me. I wouldn't buy a new Rolex for any number of largely related reasons that all boil down to their attitude and actions, from random serial numbers that only they can decode to making up all sorts of claims about "firsts" and "innovations" -- eg the first waterproof watch, the first on Everest etc etc)
This whole thing stinks.
Rolex make good watches. Not great watches, but very good ones. They have a fine history (although only relatively recently as a true in-house manufacture). They are a good product. But they are a bad business. I mean, ethically, morally bad. I wouldn't behave like that and I wouldn't tolerate it from those I work with -- whether above, below or alongside.
I'm not a brand hater but I know BS when I smell it and I have no intention of stepping in this steaming pile.
Buy a watch you like, can afford, is well-made -- and, if you are so minded, one that might hold its value. But this circus? No thanks. It's like some sort of nightmare Veblen Ponzi scheme.
I don't doubt there'll be many more of these scenarios to come. I'm sure more than a few stores will find the process of filing and issuing warranty cards in a secure, methodical way beyond their abilities.
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Oracle here doesn't hold back cards, so it isn't mandatory. ADs have a choice.
Let's face it, retaining warranty cards is a lazy way to do business. ADs could put in the effort and operate in the fashion Oracle has outlined, but some choose to sell the in-demand watches to people they clearly don't trust not to flip them. Retaining the cards is then the easiest way to show Rolex they're toeing the line.
Regarding your second point, Rolex do supply replacement cards, we know that. It's the AD's position here that's in question. Did they knowingly mislead the OP? Are they misunderstanding Rolex's replacement warranty card policy? Have they even spoken to Rolex about this issue?
I think there's been sufficient evidence posted on the forum—some first hand, some from industry insiders—to say that Rolex do supply replacement cards.
I don't know for sure, but I would guess they did. I am led to believe dealers pay roughly 55% of list price for Omegas (or maybe they have special arrangements for display / demo watches which this was) since it was £16000 list, they probably paid around £8000 -£8500 for it. If they sold it to me for £6400, then that is a loss (maybe there is a tax write off involved I don't know that either). I'm sure someone here will know better, I would be interested to learn.
OP have you checked your box/papers for a photocopy of the warranty card that the AD may have given at purchase but easily forgotten.
So in the case of "wrong guarantee given out" . . .
https://i.imgur.com/wArt5yD.png
. . . what will there be to exchange?
The post was made to establish that while this policy applies it IS possible for Rolex to produce another card. It was then argued that if they CAN, in these circumstances every effort should to be made to see that they did.
I had a mid-size with both the original and replacement warranty cards.
Separately, what if in error the AD gave out the card for your GMT to the buyer of another, who paid in cash and left no address, or was from Tokyo? You'd be staggered how often main agents historically have given out the wrong accessories / papers etc. At one time Rolex UK even had a pre-printed sticker to apply over incorrect papers identified later, so common must the phenomenon have been!
The point, however, is surely more about whether a second card CAN be produced, as it obviously could under this protocol. If it can, then these extraordinary circumstances would surely be suitable ones for consideration.
Tightening up protocols for publicly accessible/viewable aspects are one thing, ie pre printed stickers over incorrectly filled in cards, you tighten that up by charging the AD for a new card to correctly fill in...tightening up protocols to prevent fixing possible mistakes an AD may make, ie giving out a wrong card or simply losing it isn’t realistic. If it’s ‘the AD’s cock up to sort out’ do you really think Rolex would agree buying the watch back at RRP and then then giving him a new watch and correct card while selling the old one for a nice profit is better than producing a new card?
No it didn't occur to me, but when I read your post I had a vague recollection that I may have something like that. So I spent an hour searching for the box and paperwork (I kept them together in the original bag I got them in) and I couldn't find them, (I don't keep my watches in their original boxes because they clutter up the place and it's hard to find the one I want, so I put them all in 2 big boxes)The original boxes are scattered in cupboards and drawers all round the house. I know I haven't thrown it out, but I don't know where else to look, I reckon it will turn up if I wait long enough. I have misplaced a Montblanc Star Quantieme Complet for the last 4 months even though I know it's in the house. It's probably a sign I'm getting old. If I did find a photocopy, would that make a difference?
Re: If I did find a photocopy, would that make a difference?
If you do, may be you can approach Rolex directly and see what they can do.
You should absolutely try and speak to Rolex because it is not your fault that the warranty card is lost.
When I picked up my BLNR a couple of months ago, I asked for a photocopy of the warranty card. They said it was the first time they had been asked for that.
In the past 2 years I’ve bought a 6 new Sports Rolex watches. Each one has had a photocopy of the warranty card..
I’ve never needed to ask, it was done as part of the handover.
Here’s the latest one..
https://i.postimg.cc/KvHqQDpw/0-BBD4...0452-FBB57.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/nh9dW96z/341-B6...589-FBBFE8.jpg
Colleagues have messaged me today to say that a client has just been told that the warranty card for his latest purchase would be held by the main agent not for one year, as he expected, but two!