2021 F1 Thread.

[wilfmannion]

If Verstappen is anywhere near Hamilton at turn 1 I can totally see him taking both of them out. What I can’t see is the FIA doing anything about it.

[Andyg]

It’s called telemetry….that will prove if Max did indeed downshift and brake in the middle of the track. But Michael Masi is culpable too as he should have told the second car/team first (Mercedes/Lewis) that RBR had to cede the first place and not RBR first.

I actually think we will have a clean race next week and the WDC will be decided without any controversy or steward intervention.

An excellent defence of Max, but actually incorrect. The data shows that the moment before Hamilton hit Max, Max applied 67bar of pressure to his brake pedal (which equated to 2.6g), and then accelerated hard immediately after to contact. In short he braked tested Hamilton. Which is why he got another couple of points on his licence and a further 10 seconds time penalty. It also demonstrated (to me at least) that he had no real intention of letting Hamilton through, or that if Hamilton did get passed, Max was already pretty much to racing speed to attack at the next corner. Which is exactly what he did the next time.

Actually I think Max was lucky that Hamilton was able to finish as I would have expected Max would have been DSQ from the race.

[peter2704]

If max gets pole and leads no crash , if Lewis gets pole ...crash ,if Lewis tries to overtake , crash .. simples

[Papa Hotel]

Actually I think Max was lucky that Hamilton was able to finish as I would have expected Max would have been DSQ from the race.

I'd been thinking of that situation too, but came to the conclusion Max was unlucky that Hamilton could continue. Had Hamilton been unable to continue and if that had lead to Max being DQ'd, he'd have maintained the points lead in the championship that he had going into the race.

[EJL25]

I'd been thinking of that situation too, but came to the conclusion Max was unlucky that Hamilton could continue. Had Hamilton been unable to continue and if that had lead to Max being DQ'd, he'd have maintained the points lead in the championship that he had going into the race.

And that is what I think MV actually tried to achieve with his breaking.

[Andyg]

Well what a race. Nearly 3 hours long and full of incident. A lot has been made of the Max/Hamilton collision, but I thought it might be worth looking at all of the incidents that occurred between them.

Start No1 - all good. Max tried to put a move of Bottas, but Bottas slammed that door. All was well before young Mick put his Haas in the barrier initiating the safety car. Mercedes (and others) decide to pit under the safety car for new tyres, (including Perez), but MV stays out. Then shocker, after 3 more laps, the FIA decide to Red Flag the Race, which enable MV to retain his race position AND then change tyres without penalty.

Question. Why did the FIA not Red Flag immediate, giving LeClerc had exactly the same accident in FP1 when they immediately Red flagged the session, OR , if they were not sure, why didn’t they close the pit lane entry. Either way Max gets a free pit stop and a new set of tyres.

Start No2. Hamilton gets a great start, gets in front and clearly has the line in to turn one. Max sends it on the outside, misses the apex, runs off the track and then rather than keep going to rejoin the track turns hard left, right across Hamilton car, causing him to brake and for Ocon to overtake. Massive pileup then happens and the race is again Red Flagged. Max get a penalty and is told he must line up behind Hamilton. Ocon still leads.

Question. Why was Masi trying to do a deal with RBR on what penalty Max should get, rather than simply referring it to the stewards? Bizarre.

Start No3. Great start by Max, he drives up the inside of Hamilton (very much the jam in the Sandwich) who then causes Ocon to run wide. Ocon demonstrates perfectly how to rejoin the track (Max needs to take note). All 3 make the corner, but Max is now leading, Ocon second and Hamilton third. A couple of laps later Hamilton passes Ocon and then proceeded to hunt down Max.

Lap 36, Hamilton attacks Max under DRS into Turn 1. Hamilton gets marginally in front, Max still on the inside, defends by breaking so late that he runs off, causing Hamilton to also go off. (Pretty much a repeat of Brazil), but watching the slow motion, you can clearly see Max actually turn right, towards Hamilton car in the run off, rather than turn left which is where the track actually is. It certainly didn’t look like over steer to me.

Lap 38. Horner tells Max to give the position back. Max slows in the middle of track (not a normal place to position your car when being passed) and clearly Hamilton has zero idea why Max has suddenly slowed. Hamilton goes to the inside and then hits Max’s car. According to team radio, Hamilton claims Max braked tested him. Max vanishes off into the distance. Toto’s kills his headphones. Hamilton doesn’t know what’s going on except he has a damaged end plate on his front wing.

Note. After the stewards review (post race), Hamilton was proven right and that Max had further applied his brakes just as Hamilton was pulling out to over take. In fact his breaking was 2.4g. All this resulted in Max getting another penalty of 10 seconds added to his time, plus 2 penalty points added to his licence. A dick move of the highest order.

Lap 42 Max again slows to let Hamilton pass, Hamilton does, but Max gets the DRS and retakes the lead by sending it up the inside. The stewards now tell RBR that Max has received a 5 second penalty for rejoining the track in an unsafe manner, but it’s not clear to me whether that’s as a result of Restart No1 or for his move on Lap 36 (most likely). Answers on a post card please.

Lap 43 Max slows again (not sure whether it was a guilty conscience or it had been communicated to him) and Hamilton finally get him on the inside of Turn 1, but by this time Max’s tyres were pretty much shot and Hamilton would have more than likely would have got him anyway, assuming Max had tried to “over defend”.

An exciting race, but not for the right reasons in my opinion. Max demonstrated, yet again, that he a great driver, but utterly ruthless and reckless, which in a sport that see cars topping over 200mph is not good and will most likely result in a serious accident. Whether the team, the FIA or F1 can reign him in remains to be seen, but I think not until Max has matured. For those who say, he’s only 24, blah, blah, don’t forget that Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel all had WDC’s by the age of 24 and none of them had had the same amount of F1 experience as Max has.

More worryingly for me, was the total pig ear of the race made by the officials, especially Masi. From the Micks initial crash, to the use of the Red Flags, to the lack of involvement of the stewards and frankly the lack adequate communication and of timely sanctions imposed on Max. The FIA and F1 need to take a long hard look at this. I accept there is a need to balance the entertainment/commercial interests of F1 with the correct application of consistently applied rules and the Sporting Code, but currently they haven’t got it right.

Most F1 fans don’t want to see is a repeat of Senna/Prost or Schumy’s antics to determine who is going to be WDC. Hamilton and Alonso in Hungary demonstrated that hard racing is possible without the need to cheat.

Anywhoo, off to AD for a final showdown between RBR and Mercedes, before we enter 2022 and even closer racing.

[Gareth-W]

An excellent defence of Max, but actually incorrect. The data shows that the moment before Hamilton hit Max, Max applied 67bar of pressure to his brake pedal (which equated to 2.6g), and then accelerated hard immediately after to contact. In short he braked tested Hamilton. Which is why he got another couple of points on his licence and a further 10 seconds time penalty. It also demonstrated (to me at least) that he had no real intention of letting Hamilton through, or that if Hamilton did get passed, Max was already pretty much to racing speed to attack at the next corner. Which is exactly what he did the next time.

Actually I think Max was lucky that Hamilton was able to finish as I would have expected Max would have been DSQ from the race.

I suggest you re-read my post (and prior ones) once again Andy.

In no way whatsoever am I defending anything Max did, or does, on the track!!!

[Tatters]

I have never seen Hamilton so jittery after a race - after the weighing and in the interview with DC he looked really on edge. Normally he is quite chill, but this time he looked on the verge of a meltdown.

The drivers talk about how it was a great circuit, but I think that was just PR. I guess most of them are glad to see the back of it. It is just too dangerous, and not much fun to drive.

[Andyg]

I'd been thinking of that situation too, but came to the conclusion Max was unlucky that Hamilton could continue. Had Hamilton been unable to continue and if that had lead to Max being DQ'd, he'd have maintained the points lead in the championship that he had going into the race.

Had Hamilton hit him harder, both cars might have DNF’ed. in which case Max may have retained his 8 points lead, but most likely he would have been hit with 10 Place? grid penalty in AD. Which if Hamilton won and Bottas was second, would still have cost Max the WDC.

It was a high risk strategy either way, and demonstrated that perhaps Max’s thinking at the moment isn’t totally on point.

[Andyg]

I suggest you re-read my post (and prior ones) once again Andy.

In no way whatsoever am I defending anything Max did, or does, on the track!!!

My apologies.

[Papa Hotel]

Had Hamilton hit him harder, both cars might have DNF’ed. in which case Max may have retained his 8 points lead, but most likely he would have been hit with 10 Place? grid penalty in AD. Which if Hamilton won and Bottas was second, would still have cost Max the WDC.

It was a high risk strategy either way, and demonstrated that perhaps Max’s thinking at the moment isn’t totally on point.

Perhaps he'd have been given a penalty, perhaps not, we're just throwing hypotheticals out there which is almost totally pointless when the marshals themselves don't appear to have any sort of handle on what punishments to impose. And then as we found out yesterday, the marshals even investigating infractions is entirely down to the whims of Masi and the choices made by Horner.

[Gareth-W]

My apologies.

Thanks Andy.

[Ian_O]

Well what a race. Nearly 3 hours long and full of incident. A lot has been made of the Max/Hamilton collision, but I thought it might be worth looking at all of the incidents that occurred between them.

Start No1 - all good. Max tried to put a move of Bottas, but Bottas slammed that door. All was well before young Mick put his Haas in the barrier initiating the safety car. Mercedes (and others) decide to pit under the safety car for new tyres, (including Perez), but MV stays out. Then shocker, after 3 more laps, the FIA decide to Red Flag the Race, which enable MV to retain his race position AND then change tyres without penalty.

Question. Why did the FIA not Red Flag immediate, giving LeClerc had exactly the same accident in FP1 when they immediately Red flagged the session, OR , if they were not sure, why didn’t they close the pit lane entry. Either way Max gets a free pit stop and a new set of tyres.

Start No2. Hamilton gets a great start, gets in front and clearly has the line in to turn one. Max sends it on the outside, misses the apex, runs off the track and then rather than keep going to rejoin the track turns hard left, right across Hamilton car, causing him to brake and for Ocon to overtake. Massive pileup then happens and the race is again Red Flagged. Max get a penalty and is told he must line up behind Hamilton. Ocon still leads.

Question. Why was Masi trying to do a deal with RBR on what penalty Max should get, rather than simply referring it to the stewards? Bizarre.

Start No3. Great start by Max, he drives up the inside of Hamilton (very much the jam in the Sandwich) who then causes Ocon to run wide. Ocon demonstrates perfectly how to rejoin the track (Max needs to take note). All 3 make the corner, but Max is now leading, Ocon second and Hamilton third. A couple of laps later Hamilton passes Ocon and then proceeded to hunt down Max.

Lap 36, Hamilton attacks Max under DRS into Turn 1. Hamilton gets marginally in front, Max still on the inside, defends by breaking so late that he runs off, causing Hamilton to also go off. (Pretty much a repeat of Brazil), but watching the slow motion, you can clearly see Max actually turn right, towards Hamilton car in the run off, rather than turn left which is where the track actually is. It certainly didn’t look like over steer to me.

Lap 38. Horner tells Max to give the position back. Max slows in the middle of track (not a normal place to position your car when being passed) and clearly Hamilton has zero idea why Max has suddenly slowed. Hamilton goes to the inside and then hits Max’s car. According to team radio, Hamilton claims Max braked tested him. Max vanishes off into the distance. Toto’s kills his headphones. Hamilton doesn’t know what’s going on except he has a damaged end plate on his front wing.

Note. After the stewards review (post race), Hamilton was proven right and that Max had further applied his brakes just as Hamilton was pulling out to over take. In fact his breaking was 2.4g. All this resulted in Max getting another penalty of 10 seconds added to his time, plus 2 penalty points added to his licence. A dick move of the highest order.

Lap 42 Max again slows to let Hamilton pass, Hamilton does, but Max gets the DRS and retakes the lead by sending it up the inside. The stewards now tell RBR that Max has received a 5 second penalty for rejoining the track in an unsafe manner, but it’s not clear to me whether that’s as a result of Restart No1 or for his move on Lap 36 (most likely). Answers on a post card please.

Lap 43 Max slows again (not sure whether it was a guilty conscience or it had been communicated to him) and Hamilton finally get him on the inside of Turn 1, but by this time Max’s tyres were pretty much shot and Hamilton would have more than likely would have got him anyway, assuming Max had tried to “over defend”.

An exciting race, but not for the right reasons in my opinion. Max demonstrated, yet again, that he a great driver, but utterly ruthless and reckless, which in a sport that see cars topping over 200mph is not good and will most likely result in a serious accident. Whether the team, the FIA or F1 can reign him in remains to be seen, but I think not until Max has matured. For those who say, he’s only 24, blah, blah, don’t forget that Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel all had WDC’s by the age of 24 and none of them had had the same amount of F1 experience as Max has.

More worryingly for me, was the total pig ear of the race made by the officials, especially Masi. From the Micks initial crash, to the use of the Red Flags, to the lack of involvement of the stewards and frankly the lack adequate communication and of timely sanctions imposed on Max. The FIA and F1 need to take a long hard look at this. I accept there is a need to balance the entertainment/commercial interests of F1 with the correct application of consistently applied rules and the Sporting Code, but currently they haven’t got it right.

Most F1 fans don’t want to see is a repeat of Senna/Prost or Schumy’s antics to determine who is going to be WDC. Hamilton and Alonso in Hungary demonstrated that hard racing is possible without the need to cheat.

Anywhoo, off to AD for a final showdown between RBR and Mercedes, before we enter 2022 and even closer racing.

Good summary Andy.

I've been following F1 since I was a young lad in the late sixties (yes, I am that old) and watching yesterday's race was the closest I've ever come to saying "enough's enough", switching off the TV and trying to maintain my blood pressure at a comfortable level. In my view, the sport has now descended into farce and all the thrill and pleasure of watching the most skilful drivers in the world race each other on track has nearly gone. In the past I've been shocked by isolated incidents of madness and, let's face it, blatant cheating. The Senna v Prost controversy, the manner of Schumacher's first WDC in Adelaide in 1994, Schumacher trying the same cheat on Villeneuve in '97 but failing, and now the Verstappen tactics to try and win his first WDC. The difference for me now is that we all know we won't see a fair on track battle between Hamilton and Verstappen in the final race because Verstappen has shown race after race that if he's in danger of being beaten he'll resort to either driving the opposition off the track or as happened yesterday (shockingly) braking on the straight knowing that the driver behind will collide with him! It's become habitual behaviour rather than isolated incidents because the gain now outweighs the penalty, thanks to the weakness of the current FIA. As Andy says above, Masi making "offers" to Red Bull on the radio and basically negotiating with them over the position of their driver at the restart is quite shocking and displays an incredible level of weakness and ineptitude.

The crucial element now is that Verstappen effectively heads the championship table going into the final race. If Hamilton had been even one point ahead today, we may have seen two drivers displaying what skilful racers they really are. As it is, I fear there is a likelihood actual racing may take a back seat to cheating again in Abu Dhabi and for me that is incredibly sad.

Opinions on here are very polarised. Some are Verstappen fans, some are Hamilton fans, and to be honest I have no interest in keyboard arguments with anyone about who's right and who's wrong. I merely wanted to put my disappointment in the current state of one of my favourite sports into words.

Ian

[awright101]

Thanks Ian, a fair assessment

[Tatters]

Christian Horner in his post-race interview with C4, said that he had not yet seen the telemetry, but that Max had absolutely not brake-checked Lewis. Now we have all seen the evidence otherwise, I wonder if Horner will admonished Max at all? I think Max has got away far too long with his on-track behaviour, and someone in authority needs to tell him to reign it in. Fat chance!

[Andyg]

Good summary Andy.

I've been following F1 since I was a young lad in the late sixties (yes, I am that old) and watching yesterday's race was the closest I've ever come to saying "enough's enough", switching off the TV and trying to maintain my blood pressure at a comfortable level. In my view, the sport has now descended into farce and all the thrill and pleasure of watching the most skilful drivers in the world race each other on track has nearly gone. In the past I've been shocked by isolated incidents of madness and, let's face it, blatant cheating. The Senna v Prost controversy, the manner of Schumacher's first WDC in Adelaide in 1994, Schumacher trying the same cheat on Villeneuve in '97 but failing, and now the Verstappen tactics to try and win his first WDC. The difference for me now is that we all know we won't see a fair on track battle between Hamilton and Verstappen in the final race because Verstappen has shown race after race that if he's in danger of being beaten he'll resort to either driving the opposition off the track or as happened yesterday (shockingly) braking on the straight knowing that the driver behind will collide with him! It's become habitual behaviour rather than isolated incidents because the gain now outweighs the penalty, thanks to the weakness of the current FIA. As Andy says above, Masi making "offers" to Red Bull on the radio and basically negotiating with them over the position of their driver at the restart is quite shocking and displays an incredible level of weakness and ineptitude.

The crucial element now is that Verstappen effectively heads the championship table going into the final race. If Hamilton had been even one point ahead today, we may have seen two drivers displaying what skilful racers they really are. As it is, I fear there is a likelihood actual racing may take a back seat to cheating again in Abu Dhabi and for me that is incredibly sad.

Opinions on here are very polarised. Some are Verstappen fans, some are Hamilton fans, and to be honest I have no interest in keyboard arguments with anyone about who's right and who's wrong. I merely wanted to put my disappointment in the current state of one of my favourite sports into words.

Ian

Totally agree. The sad thing is that Micheal’s achievements (most of which were immense) are tarnished by his behaviour at times during his career, including 2 of his WDC’s, and I really didnt want this happening to Max. F1 seems even more polarised today, which is such a shame given the talent currently on the grid.

[Andyg]

Ref the Max brake test. Here is the onboards from both cars.

Note the position of Max’s car when he starts to slow, note the number of gear shifts, note the position of his head in relation to his mirrors, not the position of his car at the point of impact.

https://youtu.be/GeHd98UsImM

[awright101]

The comments section says a lot

[watchcollector1]

Ref the Max brake test. Here is the onboards from both cars.

Note the position of Max’s car when he starts to slow, not the number of gear shifts, note the position of his head in relation to his his mirrors, not the position of his car at the point of impact.

https://youtu.be/GeHd98UsImM

If Max is just intending to let Lewis past why does he keep his car in the middle of the track whilst slowing down to a ridiculously low speed and then move a bit to the right (even though he's closer to the left wall) just before he brakes further and Lewis hits him?

The biggest joke was that Max was voted driver of the day for one of the most disgraceful displays of driving I've ever seen. If he wins the WDC it'll already be a tarnished win.

[tixntox]

Good summary Andy.

I've been following F1 since I was a young lad in the late sixties (yes, I am that old) and watching yesterday's race was the closest I've ever come to saying "enough's enough", switching off the TV and trying to maintain my blood pressure at a comfortable level. In my view, the sport has now descended into farce and all the thrill and pleasure of watching the most skilful drivers in the world race each other on track has nearly gone. In the past I've been shocked by isolated incidents of madness and, let's face it, blatant cheating. The Senna v Prost controversy, the manner of Schumacher's first WDC in Adelaide in 1994, Schumacher trying the same cheat on Villeneuve in '97 but failing, and now the Verstappen tactics to try and win his first WDC. The difference for me now is that we all know we won't see a fair on track battle between Hamilton and Verstappen in the final race because Verstappen has shown race after race that if he's in danger of being beaten he'll resort to either driving the opposition off the track or as happened yesterday (shockingly) braking on the straight knowing that the driver behind will collide with him! It's become habitual behaviour rather than isolated incidents because the gain now outweighs the penalty, thanks to the weakness of the current FIA. As Andy says above, Masi making "offers" to Red Bull on the radio and basically negotiating with them over the position of their driver at the restart is quite shocking and displays an incredible level of weakness and ineptitude.

The crucial element now is that Verstappen effectively heads the championship table going into the final race. If Hamilton had been even one point ahead today, we may have seen two drivers displaying what skilful racers they really are. As it is, I fear there is a likelihood actual racing may take a back seat to cheating again in Abu Dhabi and for me that is incredibly sad.

Opinions on here are very polarised. Some are Verstappen fans, some are Hamilton fans, and to be honest I have no interest in keyboard arguments with anyone about who's right and who's wrong. I merely wanted to put my disappointment in the current state of one of my favourite sports into words.

Ian

Well said Ian. I have already stopped watching F1 live and tend to just view highlights (or lowlights!) on Youtube. The Hamilton vs Verstappen fiasco seems to have been a well orchestrated attempt at "livening up" the two horse race with sandbagging from Mercedes at crucial times in the season. I tend to watch womens football more now too! Less of the acting and showboating! Money ruins sport and watching the kids play for the sport, on a Saturday morning is much better than paying to see overpaid "stars"! As for the "street circuits", they are just laughable. Simply a place for the millionaires to show off and pretend to be "motor sport fans"!

[g40steve]

Simples, get rid of the huge tarmac runoff’s, make the curbs proper sausage ones like in touring cars, enforce the rules overtaking on the tarmac only!

[LRB255]

Simples, get rid of the huge tarmac runoff’s, make the curbs proper sausage ones like in touring cars, enforce the rules overtaking on the tarmac only!

Agree not rocket science

[Andyg]

Simples, get rid of the huge tarmac runoff’s, make the curbs proper sausage ones like in touring cars, enforce the rules overtaking on the tarmac only!

Not sure about the curbs bit, but next year the track limits will be the white lines. Put 4 wheels over and expect a penalty or your time deleted.

Regarding the huge run offs, they need to stay in order to allow tracks to be used by others (MotoGP for example), plus it reduces the number of Red Flags in the event of accidents. It’s also prevents drivers getting killed or injured.

[Ian_O]

Well said Ian. I have already stopped watching F1 live and tend to just view highlights (or lowlights!) on Youtube. The Hamilton vs Verstappen fiasco seems to have been a well orchestrated attempt at "livening up" the two horse race with sandbagging from Mercedes at crucial times in the season. I tend to watch womens football more now too! Less of the acting and showboating! Money ruins sport and watching the kids play for the sport, on a Saturday morning is much better than paying to see overpaid "stars"! As for the "street circuits", they are just laughable. Simply a place for the millionaires to show off and pretend to be "motor sport fans"!

Thanks.

You've just mentioned another of my current pet peeves, acting (cheating) in football! You're right about the women's football. It's currently a purer game and for some time now I've been getting increasingly irritated by the cheating in the Premiership and international football. I won't disclose which team I support, but the players in my team do it, as do all of the (far too) highly paid players. It's ruining the game, and it's largely due to the huge sums of money involved these days.

Wow, I really am sounding like a grumpy old man tonight! Sorry everyone. :-)

[jaytip]

Simples, get rid of the huge tarmac runoff’s, make the curbs proper sausage ones like in touring cars, enforce the rules overtaking on the tarmac only!

Those sausage curbs broke Abbie Eatons back.

[Mj2k]

Thanks.

You've just mentioned another of my current pet peeves, acting (cheating) in football! You're right about the women's football. It's currently a purer game and for some time now I've been getting increasingly irritated by the cheating in the Premiership and international football. I won't disclose which team I support, but the players in my team do it, as do all of the (far too) highly paid players. It's ruining the game, and it's largely due to the huge sums of money involved these days.

Wow, I really am sounding like a grumpy old man tonight! Sorry everyone. :-)

I don’t follow football at all, but noticed womens football seemed more about the game vs scoring tactical advantage by falling over at the slightest touch that is all too common.

May have been World Cup, I have no idea, but the mens games were an utter joke by comparison.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Andyg]

Those sausage curbs broke Abbie Eatons back.

They also helped launched a RBR onto a Mercedes, which could have caused a very nasty accident.

I have no idea what the answer is. Remove the run offs and have races like Monaco, Baku and Singapore. Leave the run off and have races like Spa, Silverstone, France, Turkey.

Perhaps it’s the design of the curbs that’s the issue.

[gortz]

So, Lewis, who has been in the FAR superior Mercedes that has won the bulk of his titles, that could only beaten by his team-mate, who was more-or-less contractually a wing-man, is the Greatest Of All Time? I don't buy that.
If Hamilton hadn't taken him out in Silverstone, Bottas take him out in Hungary, and the tyre blowout in Baku, the title would already be Verstappen's now.
Oh, not forgetting Hamilton's incredible "luck" in Imola, when he hit the barrier, REVERSED out, and a red flag for another incident allowed him to un-lap himself, and repair his car!!

Come on Max in Abu Dhabi !!

[EBB21]

Let's not forget that if Lewis's mum and dad hadn't met, Max would be champ by now. But why stop there? If the earth hadn't cooled at the right time and speed, there wouldn't be any F1. We could go back to the beginning of the universe, but I think you get the idea.

[awright101]

So, Lewis, who has been in the FAR superior Mercedes that has won the bulk of his titles, that could only beaten by his team-mate, who was more-or-less contractually a wing-man, is the Greatest Of All Time? I don't buy that.
If Hamilton hadn't taken him out in Silverstone, Bottas take him out in Hungary, and the tyre blowout in Baku, the title would already be Verstappen's now.
Oh, not forgetting Hamilton's incredible "luck" in Imola, when he hit the barrier, REVERSED out, and a red flag for another incident allowed him to un-lap himself, and repair his car!!

Come on Max in Abu Dhabi !!

Oh dear, have you started drinking early

[tixntox]

It's just a game. If it wasn't for the money involved, they would all be driving identical cars. Then, you would see which driver was the best. Ben Hur was always my favourite! :) Roll on the IOM TT.

[Dave+63]

Roll on the IOM TT.

Where they’re all on the same bike!

[Gareth-W]

Oh dear, have you started drinking early

Or fallen out of the silly tree and hit several branches on the way down…

[mav112]

So, Lewis, who has been in the FAR superior Mercedes that has won the bulk of his titles, that could only beaten by his team-mate, who was more-or-less contractually a wing-man, is the Greatest Of All Time? I don't buy that.
If Hamilton hadn't taken him out in Silverstone, Bottas take him out in Hungary, and the tyre blowout in Baku, the title would already be Verstappen's now.
Oh, not forgetting Hamilton's incredible "luck" in Imola, when he hit the barrier, REVERSED out, and a red flag for another incident allowed him to un-lap himself, and repair his car!!

Come on Max in Abu Dhabi !!

Blimey thats some points Max would have been ahead by , must be 70 or 80 if he had won those races,




Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app

[EJL25]

So, Lewis, who has been in the FAR superior Mercedes that has won the bulk of his titles, that could only beaten by his team-mate, who was more-or-less contractually a wing-man, is the Greatest Of All Time? I don't buy that.
If Hamilton hadn't taken him out in Silverstone, Bottas take him out in Hungary, and the tyre blowout in Baku, the title would already be Verstappen's now.
Oh, not forgetting Hamilton's incredible "luck" in Imola, when he hit the barrier, REVERSED out, and a red flag for another incident allowed him to un-lap himself, and repair his car!!

Come on Max in Abu Dhabi !!

This.
Especially great example of this is when Merc told Rosberg to let Hamilton win the title in 2016.

[Lampoc]

This.
Especially great example of this is when Merc told Rosberg to let Hamilton win the title in 2016.

Is there any proof of this?

[EJL25]

Is there any proof of this?

That was sarcasm.
Rosberg won the title in 2016.

[watchcollector1]

So, Lewis, who has been in the FAR superior Mercedes that has won the bulk of his titles, that could only beaten by his team-mate, who was more-or-less contractually a wing-man, is the Greatest Of All Time? I don't buy that.
If Hamilton hadn't taken him out in Silverstone, Bottas take him out in Hungary, and the tyre blowout in Baku, the title would already be Verstappen's now.
Oh, not forgetting Hamilton's incredible "luck" in Imola, when he hit the barrier, REVERSED out, and a red flag for another incident allowed him to un-lap himself, and repair his car!!

Come on Max in Abu Dhabi !!

I don't recall anyone on here claiming Lewis was the greatest of all time.

Mercedes have made it quite clear Bottas and Hamilton are free to race, Bottas only has to support Lewis if he is the only driver who can win the title. This is no different from Max-Perez, Alonso-Massa, etc.

Hamilton had to beat 4 time champion Vettel in a very competitive Ferrari in a couple of those seasons. He also beat Rosberg twice who had dominated Schumacher at Mercedes prior to that. Bottas was well rated before he joined Mercedes.

Sainz and Ricciardo were evenly matched with Max at Red Bull, then Ricciardo left because Red Bull were clearly favouring Max and it's only been since Daniel left that Max has dominated his teammates.

Lewis has lost points this season because of Max hitting him at Monza and forcing him off the track in numerous races. If Max had left space for Lewis at Silverstone when he was alongside instead of just going for the apex he wouldn't have ended up in the wall.

The Redbull is clearly quicker on twisty parts and the Mercedes faster on the straights. We'll never know for sure which is the faster car as the drivers performance is mixed up in that.

Clearly these are 2 brilliant drivers driving beyond the limits of their cars. I don't understand the constant need of Hamilton haters to label him as just a lucky driver. That is certainly not not view of the experts.

Has Max been the faster driver this season? Quite possibly but he is coming into his prime and Lewis is near the end of his career. Either way we've seen some epic drives from both drivers this season.

Max is clearly a great talent but he is an extremely dirty driver and a cheat. The standard of his "racing" this season has been the worst I've ever seen. For this reason it will be a tarnished championship if he wins.

[blackal]

I still remember LH being on Top Gear ages ago, when he had just left McLaren to go to Mercedes in the new season, and Clarkson questioning his sanity.................

[Lampoc]

That was sarcasm.
Rosberg won the title in 2016.

My apologies. It can be hard to tell the difference in this thread sometimes!

[thegreatdogwood]

I still remember LH being on Top Gear ages ago, when he had just left McLaren to go to Mercedes in the new season, and Clarkson questioning his sanity.................

Yep and he did this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN-C...hannel=TopGear

[thieuster]

Yep and he did this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN-C...hannel=TopGear

Sad we don't have this on TV now. I would have loved to see MV doing a lap with that Liana. Pref under the same conditions, of course.

[Pitfitter]

Get rid of run offs/run on agains, bring back car stopping kitty litter traps, decrease downforce, and dump DRS, people will have to stay on the track and overtaking might happen-circuit dependent-maybe tyres that last a race so no pitstops. it might encourage me to pay more attention to live racing rather than fast forward on the highlights, if I haven't heard the result of course.

[Ian_O]

I don't recall anyone on here claiming Lewis was the greatest of all time.

Mercedes have made it quite clear Bottas and Hamilton are free to race, Bottas only has to support Lewis if he is the only driver who can win the title. This is no different from Max-Perez, Alonso-Massa, etc.

Hamilton had to beat 4 time champion Vettel in a very competitive Ferrari in a couple of those seasons. He also beat Rosberg twice who had dominated Schumacher at Mercedes prior to that. Bottas was well rated before he joined Mercedes.

Sainz and Ricciardo were evenly matched with Max at Red Bull, then Ricciardo left because Red Bull were clearly favouring Max and it's only been since Daniel left that Max has dominated his teammates.

Lewis has lost points this season because of Max hitting him at Monza and forcing him off the track in numerous races. If Max had left space for Lewis at Silverstone when he was alongside instead of just going for the apex he wouldn't have ended up in the wall.

The Redbull is clearly quicker on twisty parts and the Mercedes faster on the straights. We'll never know for sure which is the faster car as the drivers performance is mixed up in that.

Clearly these are 2 brilliant drivers driving beyond the limits of their cars. I don't understand the constant need of Hamilton haters to label him as just a lucky driver. That is certainly not not view of the experts.

Has Max been the faster driver this season? Quite possibly but he is coming into his prime and Lewis is near the end of his career. Either way we've seen some epic drives from both drivers this season.

Max is clearly a great talent but he is an extremely dirty driver and a cheat. The standard of his "racing" this season has been the worst I've ever seen. For this reason it will be a tarnished championship if he wins.

Absolutely agree with all of this!

[mav112]

channel 4 to show the final race Live on Sunday

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...habi-6rlkbvbv0


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[drmarkf]

Absolutely agree with all of this!

Indeed.
The question to ask all those people who criticise LCH for “only winning because he has the best car” is to name any multi-championship winning driver for whom that wasn’t true.
It’s lack of understanding of the sport, or are they really dissing everyone including Fangio?

[mav112]

https://grandpx.news/verstappen-toug...GBnvLsJxy8_GdA




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[Andyg]

Just in case there was any doubt remaining over Max’s Brake test.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut...ident-apology/

[mav112]

Hamilton simply misjudged and drove into Max’s car. Unfortunately, that left two big cuts in our rear tyre. That’s why we couldn’t attack anymore.”

Yes very clear now



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[awright101]

Hamilton simply misjudged and drove into Max’s car. Unfortunately, that left two big cuts in our rear tyre. That’s why we couldn’t attack anymore.”

Yes very clear now



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I heard that excuse, laughable