I think you make a great point, but I wonder whether low residuals really affect the typical buyer all that much. Enthusiasts and collectors like ourselves will be aware of the second-hand pricfes and base our purchases based on those at least in part, but I imagine that the vast majority still buy watches in order to wear them, that they don't think about selling them, at least not for in the short- and mid-term, and are mostly influenced by what they like and marketing, which is where apparently Richmont still hasn't made sufficient inroads in relation to their competitors.Originally Posted by Blue75
I am sure Richemont didn’t enjoy destroying the 400 mil of stock that it did last year, so that grey dealers didn’t get their hands on it.
But, what if they suddenly had their own grey dealer, where there is still a reasonable margin as it is wholly owned, and then the new pieces are sold as “pre-owned” so as to not rock the pricing boat?
I think Paskinner has a point here and WF could become a very different beast, regardless of whether it continues to flog Rolex or not.
Where does it state the sale price?
IT doesn't as far as I can see
They didn't destroy them and think it's really to early to see how this will pan out. But reckon their ADs wont be happy if they just started flooding the market with what are basically new
watches at a discount via a source everyone knows they own, think this would actually drive prices down.
they destroyed the cases at least? Richemont have discontinued loads of models over the years - I'm thinking it's more a place for 'last season's' watches, ala Bicester Village, rather than for all their second-hand or unwanted stock.
Dont think anyone knows if they destroyed the cases either, last seasons watches are pretty much the same as unwanted stock and Buying WF seems a bit over the top to me for that, wouldnt they be better just taking some leases
out at other outlet Villages if that's what they wanted to do.
Last edited by TBKBABAB; 3rd June 2018 at 16:25.
No price given; but America's biggest dealer, Govberg, have suggested around£100,000,000. Whether that's just their guess, and whether it includes all the stock, leases, etc, ...who knows.
Maybe its a cunning plan to undermine Swatch and Rolex, slash the prices on all the Swatch and Rolex stock and stop buying any more.
Better get you're Daytonas and speedmasters on SC quick.
Richemont brands aren't fought for by grey dealers though.
But Richemont sell an awful lot of watches and make a lot of money. I think they are about to go into over-drive, cutting distribution, clearing-out poor dealers, pushing for firm prices and generally....copying Rolex!
Watchfinder will be used, I imagine, to create a better image for their used stock. And to offer tasty trade-ins for existing customers.
First part could be although not quite as easy if you have 11 brands rather than just the 2 Rolex have but that makes the second part more interesting for them.
Long thoughtful editorial from SJX on the subject: http://watchesbysjx.com/2018/06/edit...ry-market.html
Of especial interest was this
The second is to massage secondary market values, as a tool to encourage sales of new watches. Owning a secondary market platform allows a brand, with the necessary wherewithal and money, to nudge prices for its used watches upwards. This is one reason F.P. Journe began its Patrimonie programme, which sees the brand buy important, discontinued models and offer them for sale to collectors. Fellow independent watchmaker MB&F has revealed it has similar plans in the works.
Naturally this only works for brands small enough that the number of watches on the market is manageable, while also being desirable enough that most of its watches are in demand. F.P. Journe and MB&F fit the bill, with annual production in the hundreds, as do bigger brands like Richard Mille and A. Lange & Söhne, both of which produce about 4000 watches a year. For brands with five or six figure annual output the scale of the market is likely unmanageable.
Luxury goods are ultimately about image....which is the gap between production costs and what the consumer will pay. Thus Guchi's comment that 'we don't sell handbags, we sell dreams.'
You can't defend a luxury image if your goods are routinely sold at discount....but you can only stop discounting by limiting and controlling production and distribution.
And that, in the end, is what Richemont, and others, are having to face. They must cut-back, accept lower short-term profits, if they wish to remain as 'luxury' brands.
Whether they have sufficiently supportive shareholders, and the longer term vision, remains to be seen. But Rolex, as a charity, has no shareholders and can afford long-term goals.
Perhaps they’ve just bought it to kill it?
Would drive more business back to the AD with realisation of profit on the new watches.
They won’t have bought it for our benefit, that’s for sure.
I don't see how even Richemont can use WF as a vehicle to control prices of their own brands unless they use it as a loss leader and substantially outbid any other dealer. It only takes someone else with the same business plan to open up another "WeBuyanyWatch" in competition thus negating their acquisition.
The only real way to control the market for their product is to restrict production in the Rolex style, but that doesn't satisfy hungry shareholders I suppose
Yes this was my initial thought too. Just a small accounting write off at the end of the day!
Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
My thought anyway
A one off exceptional charge....
I assume they won’t kill it, they’ll just remove their brands / try to use WF’s position in the market to mess with the pricing on their brands.
It also means that other makers out there are going to have an even harder time controlling the pre-owned market like they’d want. One brand in particular comes to mind...
Higher-end car manufacturers have got a good grip on the second hand market....they get the best samples and can charge a bit more. That's probably what Richemont have in mind. They can also use Watchfinder to feed surplus into the market as 'used'....again, just like car manufacturers do.
Great thread. Had no idea of some of these rumours also mentioned on here.
Ive tried to look up the value and price it was sold for. Does anyone know?
- - - Updated - - -
Whats this lawsuit about? Theres no information online about it?
I love their YouTube channel. I hope it continues.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
If it does, it may largely focus on how wonderful Cartier etc. are :-(
It's a fantastic toy for Richemont to have. It gives them a huge platform to effect second hand values in the UK market. Reduce the s/h value of Breitling, click here. Increase the s/v of Panerai, click here.
So who wants to set up the new WatchFinder with me then - opportunity is there if Richemont do mess around with the market ;)
I'm in. Now all we need to do is raise about £50m in capital to setup and buy stock
Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
I think 5-10 million would be enough to get going, we could do fully online initially if store premise is too difficult/expensiveI'm in. Now all we need to do is raise about £50m in capital to setup and buy stock
Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
We've got enough stock sitting in the safes of the members of this forum to set up a pretty darn healthy online retailer.
True, but as far as each and all of us are concerned, they're all keepers ...
Hehe, I'm also guilty of that
But in all seriousness, this may leave a gap worth exploring if someone has the balls and the money of course - especially in the London area
Who needs stock? Just offer commission sales to get things going.
Do what Watchfinder did and charge the seller for a service and any parts that weren’t perfect, sell the watch as received and only carry out any work if the buyer notices. With commission on top there should be enough in each watch to start building up a cash pot for buy-ins (at stupidly low prices of course).
Sell it on in ten years and retire to the Bahamas: job done!
If someone wants to set up a consignments business in London, I’m down!
https://hsfnotes.com/litigation/2017...-unreasonably/
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
That's a pretty good summary of Watchfinder; but don't forget to sell the original boxes and spare links.and never offer a service you're not legally obliged to. Every penny counts, and plenty of customers won't notice.
In their defence, I suspect that making money out of second-hand watches is far from easy.
Last edited by paskinner; 6th June 2018 at 13:24.
There was a newbie on here a while back who said that he’d be splitting his watch sets up and selling boxes, links etc (even the bracelet) separately in order to maximise his return. I forget who it was now but he quickly went on ignore!
This is a very point, no reason to go above and beyond really
I remember the days of watchfinder commission sales, sold a couple of watches through this method & its a shame they stop offering this service.
I had a nice little sideline going for a while; I’d buy off eBay, send to WF and aim to make £200. The trouble was when they started ramping up the costs to “make right” even though nothing was actually needed. Every watch with a bezel “needed” a new bezel and they always “needed” a service even if the watch was only a few months old.
It was good while it lasted though, it paid for my GMT.
never liked WF - good luck to Richemonte
I did this also.
I hop ricnemonte continue making great YouTube video like this one.
https://youtu.be/TqSg4owRcV0
I think the BOD needed/wanted a so called marquee signing to unveil back in Zurich. Staggering money if true.
Yes, they do very fine videos. Trouble is, until recently they ignored Grand Seiko, never showed the slightest interest in Japanese watches.
It will be fun to see what Richemont do, but I think it might be rather different. They have no interest in pushing the likes of Rolex; that's the enemy.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
