Just an observation from long term member

[Dark Side of The Loon]

I've read posts on this forum for a few years now, joined late last year and 'contribute' (not confident using that word without inverted commas ) from time to time.

On the odd occasion I've had a question, I've had it answered nicely - and for free!

There's always going to be a bad egg or two; I think this is one of the most pleasant forums to read out there, and it would be a big shame not to have it to flick through during those quiet moments.

[walkerwek1958]

Overall I think the forum is less interesting than it was in the past. Far too much emphasis on the R word and prices/values, with too much focus on the latest 'must have' watches.

As for the behaviour/attutudes, I think there's been a fall in standards. Too many folks who don't know how to debate and disagree without being unpleasant. As for new members getting treated with contempt, I don't think that's true in general. However, we've had several who deliberately set out to be abrasive and argumentative from the outset, they're either like that in 'real life' or they're cultivating some sort of alter ego. I'd welcome a probationary period for new members, with the ones who are here simply to cause arguments being 'asked to leave' because they don't measure up to the spirit of the place. Might be a bit elitist but it would keep the clowns away.

I think the Bear Pit has run it's course and it's time to wind it up. It's become an area for people to behave badly and bitch at each other, it does the forum no credit at all. Cetain members use it as a place to have their petty scraps and it all gets a bit tiresome, folks who seem perfectly OK let themselves down badly with BP posts. It can be entertaining but it brings the worst out in many.

As a general yardstick, folks should only post comments they would make in direct conversation with the individual, but all too often the 'keyboard warrior' mentality prevails. Heavy handed moderation can ruin forums but I'd like to see a bit more 'policing' on here to weed out the idiot behaviour and the insults. Disagreeing's one thing, questioning someone's integrity is another and sadly that happens too often.

Maybe Eddie needs to use the big stick a bit more often?

Paul

[Johnosul]

I think it is a great forum. I'm certainly not a prolific poster but 'check in' on most days. My wife thinks its an addiction. Perhaps it is. The forum is an incredible reservoir of knowledge and most members are very giving of their time in addressing the full remit of queries from members old and new alike. This to me is the essence of the forum. For sure, there have been unsavoury threads that have unravelled for different reasons but I guess this is the ways of today's world. That said, they can be still entertaining! I have bought of SC and through WTBs and this has provided me with access to pieces that I would not otherwise have had. I have never sold a watch on the forum and hopefully never will. A watch purchase to me (unfortunately) is a multi-year process that sometimes begins with an image from the Friday forum, after which knowledge and understanding of a particular piece is developed with further insight from this knowledgeable community. I, for one, love it!

[Crouchy]

I have wondered a few times how many of the 'original' members are still using the forum. Did some leave because they became disillusioned with the way it evolved? No idea.

I'm sure the forum has changed a great deal from it's infancy but that's life. It's still a really good forum IMO, you just need to filter out the stuff you don't like.

I first joined in 2003 (I think) and for sure the forum has changed. There is a little more bickering - but that is inevitable given the increased number of members. Eddie posts less but then Timefactors is much bigger as a business, remember one pays his bills the other just steels his time. There have been many that I have seen come and go, some missed and some less so. Personally this is still pretty much the only watch forum I frequent as the majority of users really are good guys, the dead wood tends to get caught out PDQ. It says a lot that the forum has no need for a moderator but, on the rare occasion that Mr Flatts (sic) does wade in, people listen and rarely 're-offend'.
I have had some great deals on here and made some great friends, can't beat a 'face to face', I've also taken the odd kicking on watches - but that's the joy of this hobby.
I have been a serial flipper, less so now, have moved on some watches that I regret selling and had a few where I've regretted buying. I've learned a huge amount from people on here and overall the experience positive so I keep coming back. I have also gleaned new areas of interest as a direct result, these include pens, men's scents, sunglasses, brogues, Belstaff, Barbour, and a plethora of high end outdoor clothing companies.
The one big change I have seen is the greater number of really high end watches, some members clearly have worked very hard and been incredibly successful - long may it continue. That said one man's (or woman's for the benefit of Celia ;-)) high end watch is another's low end piece.
All in all, Eddie has created a great community, it will change and evolve - these things do, I hope it carries on in a similar vein for many years to come.
Anyway, enough of my ramblings, I'd just like to add - and many won't get this - Thanks Crusader.
James

[Neil.C]

As probably the oldest regularly posting member on here I can definitely see a huge seismic change between "the old days" and now.

In the past people on here often used to buy vintage watches or cheaper models and discuss them to death. When I started banging on about Rolex there were hardly any takers. Now it seems that is all anybody talks about. It's all gone upmarket.

There was also a lot of movement discussion and general interest watch stuff, now it often seems to be tales of how people go into a shop and buy something.
I mean, plastic sticker removal - Gordon Bennett!!

One other thing about the old days were the brilliant NOS watches (not his own) Eddie used to sell. Those old Breitling Superoceans, the Aviators (rebadged Navitimers ) etc etc were the stuff of dreams. We won't see the like of that again.

I guess in the past it was "cosier" and a sort of safe house where people who had had "disagreements" on other forums could find a home. That was certainly true in my case.

Of course with expansion changes were inevitable.

Still the best watch forum about though. It is still 100% Eddie and moulded in his image which accounts for its success.

[Andyg156]

I enjoy reading posts on watch talk, however i hardly post. This is mainly because my limited knowledge has been gained mainly from here. So I leave the important talk to those that know there stuff.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[mycroft]

Thanks Crusader.
James

Aah, now there's a phrase I haven't seen for a while (gives a nostalgic sigh)!!!!

Nice one.

Simon

[mycroft]

Still the best watch forum about though. It is still 100% Eddie and moulded in his image which accounts for its success.

Hear hear...

Simon

[walkerwek1958]

Definitely the best watch forum.

I find the one brand forums irritating even though there's plenty of knowledge available. I don`t bother with the Omega forum for that reason.

Paul

[willie_gunn]

As a relative newcomer all I can say is that TZ-UK has been a great find.

Existing members have, with the very rare exception, been hugely accommodating of my idiotic questions, and it has been fascinating to learn about watches and watchmaking.

The hobby is very diverse, and all the better for it, and for each of those who post about the latest Daytona or Skydweller there are others who post about G-Shocks or Smiths.

I've received some great advice, had a fair few laughs, met (real or virtually) some wonderful people, and been lucky to pick up or trade a few interesting pieces.

I have also come to appreciate the huge wealth of talent out there, whether in watch repairing, watchmaking, strap making, classic car restoration, and a myriad other subjects.

Long may it continue.


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

[Chiefs]

Martyn, as a very new member I think your post is a well articulated reminder of what the general ethos should be.
Coming from a more predominate US Rolex forum I'm really enjoying my time here.
I resist the urge to respond to "investment" comments as it drives me crazy. Maybe we can configure the forum to auto correct the word from Investment to pleasure?

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[wits]

I am on a few forums but this one is perhaps the most interesting,yes there are the Rolex brigade as there are everywhere but there are enough other brands enjoyed and discussed to make things informative and fun.

Keep it up fellas !

{ i say fellas as most laydees wear utter sh## watches and arent interested discussing them imho}

[verv]

i say fellas as most laydees wear utter sh## watches and arent interested discussing them imho}

Good to know

[SteveR]

Whilst being here for over a year now I've loved my time on this forum. I own the same watch I joined to ask about, no more have come in. My knowledge has grown immeasurably. My eyes have truly been open. The forum may have changed from the good old days, but as it's grown a new clientele have joined.

As someone who'll never own a Rolex it does get a bit much. But I LOVE reading posts of the likes of Haywood about the minute differences between certain watches. The knowledge of this forum is astonishing to me, outside of watches included. I visit no other forums watches or not.

It's a great forum and I love you all

[MrMater]

As probably the oldest regularly posting member on here I can definitely see a huge seismic change between "the old days" and now.

In the past people on here often used to buy vintage watches or cheaper models and discuss them to death. When I started banging on about Rolex there were hardly any takers. Now it seems that is all anybody talks about. It's all gone upmarket.

There was also a lot of movement discussion and general interest watch stuff, now it often seems to be tales of how people go into a shop and buy something.
I mean, plastic sticker removal - Gordon Bennett!!

One other thing about the old days were the brilliant NOS watches (not his own) Eddie used to sell. Those old Breitling Superoceans, the Aviators (rebadged Navitimers ) etc etc were the stuff of dreams. We won't see the like of that again.

I guess in the past it was "cosier" and a sort of safe house where people who had had "disagreements" on other forums could find a home. That was certainly true in my case.

Of course with expansion changes were inevitable.

Still the best watch forum about though. It is still 100% Eddie and moulded in his image which accounts for its success.

I for one would love to see more threads about vintage watches, particularly ones that don't cost the earth but still have that charm that we all crave.

The problem is I don't have the knowledge or experience to contribute. It's the main reason I joined, to learn from people just like you.

So why have those types of posts dried up? Surely they will be, in the main, generated from the grand masters or highly knowledgeable among us. I'd love to see some threads detailing obscure vintage chronographs that don't cost five figure sums like a Daytona!

[angeche]

For me it has become very frustrating to post. As a non native speaker it is difficult to write a foreign language. On top of that, I like to write careful texts and add some quality pictures. But the speed of the forum is so high that in a few hours your post sinks to the second page and disappears.
Having said that, this is the sole forum in which I participate. So it must not be so bad....


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[forpetesake]

[QUOTE=Tokyo Tokei;4481387]- Facebook and social media. Status signalling to construct an online version of oneself has become prevalent, and accepted. Forums which were once a niche and dusty place for special-interest groups to hangout together, have for some become another place for social signalling. Be it wealth, knowledge, prestige, moral fibre, education, contrariness or wit.

QUOTE]

What an interesting thought.

[forpetesake]

.

- The most-recently-commented-on-post-rises-to-the-top format isn't helping. In the absence of other quality measuring devices, it over emphasises "recentness" over quality. All those old posts which longer term members recall are still here. Just submerged under noise.

- A "like" button or some other appreciation/quality token might be helpful. It would be easier to find interesting content with such a system. Quality posts sink faster than their content merits. Some of the complaints about "things aren't what they used to be..." would be rendered irrelevant if that great old content was a bit easier to find.

For me it has become very frustrating to post. As a non native speaker it is difficult to write a foreign language. On top of that, I like to write careful texts and add some quality pictures. But the speed of the forum is so high that in a few hours your post sinks to the second page and disappears.
]

Valid points indeed.

[sestrel]

Not so long ago there used to be some right keyboard warrior psychopaths that would go into manic rage if you dared to say something they might disagree with. Not quiteso much of that now thank god. As for getting back what was paid, well, apart from the 'money bags' , don't think so many folk can afford not to get that at least. Last time I sold a watch, it was to pay a bill. Hate having to do that..

[guinea]

The frustrating thing is that I like to discover new watches and learn about interesting technology.

I own some nice watches but I've come to realise the hobby for me isn't about buying and selling, it's about learning. Most people here post about watches they own or are going to buy, there are few detailed threads about watches that are just damn interesting.

That means Omega, Rolex and Breitling generally offer no interest to me and I'll skip those threads. I do own watches from two of those brands, but threads on them are generally repetitive.

In WT now on the first page there isn't a thread on a watch that's interesting to me, but the grey market thread and the price of vintage watches are good.

The forum has definitely changed since I joined, the threads are a bit less interesting and we talk about money/investments far too much.

It's still good though.

[coldwarkid]

I also don't particularly like the Rolex worship that seems to be getting bigger and bigger all the time on this forum. The investment element of this I find particularly dull and I've come to realise that there are actually a few members on here who don't seem to have any real interest in watches, or if they do, it takes second place to the bean counting mentality of residuals. That to me, is a little bit sad and soulless, but each to their own.

This forum is still good for picking up on brands and watches that you otherwise wouldn't usually consider though, such as Seiko which to me for years was just a cheap quartz brand they sell in Argos. Now that I own a Turtle, it has completely changed my view of them and I would like to think that one day, if I save hard, I can own a MarineMaster.

The other good thing is, although there are people on here who I disagree with, there's a lack of real weirdos.

Years ago on WUS I mentioned that I preferred the higher beat typical of Swiss watches than the lower beat Asians. I made the mistake of saying that the Asian second hands stutter.

One guy took massive offence to this, and was completely over the top in his responses to everything I said. He was completely enraged and we both got a Pm from the moderator telling us to play nice ( which I was ), but he didn't and all his posts got deleted and he was either banned or went off in a hissy fit.

Anyone who is so sensitive and unable to see the ridiculousness of getting so upset at nothing at all should stay away from the internet or they'll just end up in tears on a daily basis.

[bedlam]

One of the issues with forums getting bigger is the value of individual posts tends to diminish. Twitter would be the ultimate example, where there's no point 'crafting' anything as it will be washed away in a sea of meme references, one-liners, and 'me too's' within moments.

Someone above said they don't really like brand forums...yet the front page here feels like its bordering on exactly that at times.

I have learned a lot here though and definitely appreciate that :-)

[jk103]

Does anyone remember Griff? Does anyone remember the guy who went on a late night tirade and had an affection for monkeys?? that was funny.

[seikopath]

Does anyone remember Griff? Does anyone remember the guy who went on a late night tirade and had an affection for monkeys?? that was funny.

Catmuck. Do you see boy, do you see??
Everyone remembers griff!
No idea who the monkey guy is though!

[Jon Kenney]

The forum has certainly changed over the last few years. Trying to identify whether it's for the better or not is a pretty pointless exercise, though; TZ-UK has many thousands of members now, and the interests of the true enthusiasts are obviously going to be diluted.

The only thing I don't like are the nasty/snide comments that proliferate almost every section of the forum. Whilst I seem to recall thinking that when I joined, it's definitely got worse and the nature of the abuse more concerning.

100% agree what Tony said, but also with the knowledge that I've let myself be brought down a level or two at times, so have been part of what I believe to be the biggest problem.

[Yokel]

As a complete (and completely ignorant) newcomer to horology and this forum, I have been surprised by the warmth of the welcome i have received generally.

I have mostly been seeking information in my quest to expand my small collection in a modest way. Clearly, my non-WIS questions have been met with with the occasional cheap put-down, but you would expect that on any forum. However, I have also received a great deal of useful advice and information from several sophisticated members (MartynJC, Mycroft, and AlfaT33 probably deserve special mentions), so, thank you to all.

My initial impressions on the slightly less positive side are similar to many recently expressed.
I also don't understand the concept of buying with resale value in mind for two reasons: it seems to me that those doing so will limit themselves to "run-of-the-mill" pieces for which there is an established market (or the outrageously expensive), and I can think of any number of investments more likely to produce a return (and offering lower risk) than watches. But, that's fine, I can avoid "resale value" threads.
And, Rolex. I have one (which I like, and intend to keep), but I have no desire for another. Again, no problem glossing over the threads (luckily, they are often the same threads as above).

All in all then I'm very pleased I've found TZ-UK. Thank you for having me.

[paskinner]

I think much of the 'investment' thing is really about flipping . If you like to change watches regularly, you need to minimise the cost . So watches with strong residuals are favoured. And you end up with a bunch of mildly boring Rolexes, because it's safe.
If you are going to keep the watch, such issues matter far less.

[Yokel]

I think much of the 'investment' thing is really about flipping . If you like to change watches regularly, you need to minimise the cost . So watches with strong residuals are favoured. And you end up with a bunch of mildly boring Rolexes, because it's safe.
If you are going to keep the watch, such issues matter far less.

Oh, and one last point/question: why don't we have a "like" button?

[snowman]

And you end up with a bunch of mildly boring Rolexes, because it's safe.
If you are going to keep the watch, such issues matter far less.

Very true.

Whilst not a Rolex fan personally, I think they'd seen less 'mildly boring' if they weren't so ubiquitous.

Surely even fans get bored with seeing shots of yet another Sub or GMT, don't they?

If there were as few as, say, IWCs and Zeniths, I'm sure they'd be more interesting.

M.

[MrGrumpy]

As a complete (and completely ignorant) newcomer to horology and this forum, I have been surprised by the warmth of the welcome i have received generally.

I have mostly been seeking information in my quest to expand my small collection in a modest way. Clearly, my non-WIS questions have been met with with the occasional cheap put-down, but you would expect that on any forum.

Well, I know what you mean, but personally I don't think we should expect such reaction on a forum. We all ask stupid questions or say daft things at times (me probably frequently) but if people can't find the mental effort to post a polite reply, I don't think they shouldn't bother replying at all!

[Kingstepper]

Surely even fans get bored with seeing shots of yet another Sub or GMT, don't they?

Sadly, I don't think they do.

[hafle]

Sadly, I don't think they do.

I certainly do, Friday threads can be very dull at times. In my mind, you know things have become dull when people no longer comment on the watch, but rather the strap.

[cmcm3]

I agree I'd like to see less discussion of values and investment but when it comes to buying and selling the forum now just has too large a membership to openly advertise watches "cheap" because they just get hoovered up by folk you don't know, who contribute nothing, and then flipped for a profit elsewhere. I have been on both sides of preferential deals with friends and members I've known for some time but to bang up watches at much below market value on SC now is more likely to encourage vultures rather than dissuade them. If everyone takes their little share of uplift as values grow nobody should feel too aggrieved at any point in the lifecycle of a watch.

[verv]

I agree I'd like to see less discussion of values and investment but when it comes to buying and selling the forum now just has too large a membership to openly advertise watches "cheap" because they just get hoovered up by folk you don't know, who contribute nothing, and then flipped for a profit elsewhere. I have been on both sides of preferential deals with friends and members I've known for some time but to bang up watches at much below market value on SC now is more likely to encourage vultures rather than dissuade them. If everyone takes their little share of uplift as values grow nobody should feel too aggrieved at any point in the lifecycle of a watch.

Agreed.

[Neil.C]

Does anyone remember Griff? Does anyone remember the guy who went on a late night tirade and had an affection for monkeys?? that was funny.

Of course I remember Griff John, great character.

"Tories are lower than vermin" was a favourite of his.

I did pm him a while back to see how he was, but no response.

Don't know the monkey bloke though.

[forpetesake]

Maybe it’s worth remembering that just as membership and content changes, so too do each of us. Whether it’s personal circumstances, ownership experiences or just an enhanced understanding of the world of watches, these things alter the perspective from which we view content here.

[SteveR]

Does anyone think the soaring value of certain brands in particular has taken away the simple joy of collecting? Maybe that's why there's so much pressure on value retention and investments

[walkerwek1958]

I think the cost of service/repairs, together with the worsening parts supply situation, is taking some of the pleasure out of collecting. Collecting at a modest level wasn't expensive in the past, but those days are over.

The true collectors on the forum are very much in the minority thesedays. It's becoming too expensive to own several watches given the cost of purchase and service etc.

Paul

[jk103]

Dave and Neil: The guy who went on the tirade did it late at night when I am on I know they were some others on at the time I can't remember his name but it was funny. Eddie was sleeping so it didn't get cleaned up till morning and a proper banning was issued.

[jk103]

It's too bad Griff never came back hopefully he is doing well and is alive I think old Glenny Boy(Seamaster73) would even like that.

[Analogue]

Deleted

[Neil.C]

It's too bad Griff never came back hopefully he is doing well and is alive I think old Glenny Boy(Seamaster73) would even like that.

I'm sure Glen would love to see him back.

Unfortunately Griff was no youngster and I believe he may have had health issues so I do fear for him a bit, but I guess we'll never know.

[magirus]

Does anyone think the soaring value of certain brands in particular has taken away the simple joy of collecting? Maybe that's why there's so much pressure on value retention and investments

That's it in a nutshell. Buyers are frightened of putting a lot of money into a watch and not getting most/all/more of it back. Where's the enjoyment in that. If you like a watch enough for design, aesthetic etc reasons then buy it and enjoy it, if you ever sell it and take a hit then damn the torpedoes! Otherwise you chose the wrong hobby. Anyone for a Voyager . . . ;-)

[Longblackcoat]

I think the cost of service/repairs, together with the worsening parts supply situation, is taking some of the pleasure out of collecting. Collecting at a modest level wasn't expensive in the past, but those days are over.

The true collectors on the forum are very much in the minority thesedays. It's becoming too expensive to own several watches given the cost of purchase and service etc.

Paul

Vintage watches have appreciated over the last decade (probably longer, but I don't know) and it appears that my collection, which in total might have cost me £20k over the years (I've never sold anything) is now worth a good few several multiples of that.

That's a nice problem to have, but it means it's unlikely that I'll never again be able to pick up an Omega Constellation for £500 as I could just a few years back, or my birth-year Air King 5500, for which I paid £750. Frankly, that saddens me a little. It means I have to think a little harder about lending one of my watches to my daughter for a night out, because that's maybe £5-10k on her wrist. It means I need to spend more on insurance, to worry about the sterling value of my watches, when all I really want to do is look at them and admire the shape as they're worn.

Servicing is another issue - used to be that pretty much all watchmakers could sort out an old Omega for £100 or less, but now that parts are scarcer, prices are rising and I'me having to look at a far more significant cost. Frustrating!

[Mick P]

We can't have it both ways. Most of us like owing a watch which is valuable but it is a bit ungracious to complain about the high cost of servicing it.

I have 5 Rolex, a JLC, an Omega and my late fathers old Modia which I should get serviced some day. That is more than enough watches for any one person and my buying days are now over but I enjoy wearing each watch for a few weeks at a time.

It's easy to go back to the old days oozing with nostalgia. I served a Toolmaking apprenticeship in an aircraft factory that employed near 3000 men and there were several ex watch repairers working there who would fix a fault on a watch for the price of a couple of pints, those days have long gone and we just got to live with it. Same goes for changing watch markets and fora, nothing stays the same forever.

[Longblackcoat]

We can't have it both ways. Most of us like owing a watch which is valuable but it is a bit ungracious to complain about the high cost of servicing it.

I have 5 Rolex, a JLC, an Omega and my late fathers old Modia which I should get serviced some day. That is more than enough watches for any one person and my buying days are now over but I enjoy wearing each watch for a few weeks at a time.

It's easy to go back to the old days oozing with nostalgia. I served a Toolmaking apprenticeship in an aircraft factory that employed near 3000 men and there were several ex watch repairers working there who would fix a fault on a watch for the price of a couple of pints, those days have long gone and we just got to live with it. Same goes for changing watch markets and fora, nothing stays the same forever.

Agreed, but the fact that Omega parts used to be freely available and are now only available to accredited service partners makes the cost rise. If the watches had got more complex and thus required even more specialist attention that only Omega could give, this might be justified. As it is, it seems far more that it's just profiteering.

[Bobbyf]

I certainly do, Friday threads can be very dull at times. In my mind, you know things have become dull when people no longer comment on the watch, but rather the strap.

This 👍

[Bobbyf]

Maybe it’s worth remembering that just as membership and content changes, so too do each of us. Whether it’s personal circumstances, ownership experiences or just an enhanced understanding of the world of watches, these things alter the perspective from which we view content here.

I think this is a good point. I occasionally see people getting snide replies saying 'have you tried the search function? ' or 'not again...' when they ask a question but views and opinions change over time and it's useful to get the latest information. That said, the 'do I buy date or no date' type threads can wear a bit thin!

[2ptjoe]

Well , I think I maybe the newest here , and only two threads created and one contained the ' on-going value ' theme.

My biggest quest for joining is to tap into the knowledge to enable me to get a good watch at the correct price. Not the cheapest , but the correct price . With so many different codes and versions it is a minefield out there and unfortunately too many people ready to rip us off. Such a shame but that is society nowadays.

The value of my watch going forward doesn't worry me but again reading on here it does help you chose maybe a better long term option which is always better in todays uncertain world. The main message I've been given is choose what you like and want , regardless of resale value so that feeling still runs deep with the majority.

The forum is wonderful and im very pleased I found it.

[ralphy]

That's it in a nutshell. Buyers are frightened of putting a lot of money into a watch and not getting most/all/more of it back. Where's the enjoyment in that. If you like a watch enough for design, aesthetic etc reasons then buy it and enjoy it, if you ever sell it and take a hit then damn the torpedoes! Otherwise you chose the wrong hobby. Anyone for a Voyager . . . ;-)

I find the concerns over 'depreciation' in watches to be rather at odds with the concept of ownership enjoyment. Like you, I will only buy for pleasure of ownership and with no other criteria than that.

R