Reply With QuoteHave a look here:http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...highlight=hive
I had a Salus installed a few months ago and I'm really pleased with it. I just leave it on auto and it does the rest.
Just wondering what others experiences are of these. I'm talking about the likes of Nest, Hive and the most recent one i've noticed on offer, Tado.
Our Combi boiler is roughly 5 years old now. When we had it fitted a wireless Bosstherm thermostat was used and i've never really liked it. The set up is extremely confusing, connection can be ropey, reset is complicated and there seems to be no perfect place for the sensor in terms of judging the room temperature. You often find it's too cold or too hot. I actually found the simple timer clock on the front of the boiler in my old flat much better. Being able to control the heating remotely would be a real bonus.
Experiences and views appreciated, also curious to know if anyone has installed one themselves as it looks quite simple if you have an existing external thermostat.
Have a look here:http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...highlight=hive
I had a Salus installed a few months ago and I'm really pleased with it. I just leave it on auto and it does the rest.
Thanks. The Salus unit looks the same as what I have (wireless controller that sits in a room, can be moved about, has a minimum temp for non timed heating activation etc). I'm more interested in something smarter, something that considers other environmental issues or even knows when the house isn't occupied or can be controlled via app when away from home.
Problem being that although i'm out at work all day, my wife doesn't work so doesn't have a regular schedule. So several days a week i'm paying to heat an empty house. I could easily save about 20% on my heating by my estimation. I tried just having it off while I was at work but apparently she was cold and my advice to put another jumper on didn't go down too well.
You could try this one if you want something that adapts to your usage patterns, helps choose cheaper tariffs (being energy supplier independent) and is app controlled.
http://www.warmup.co.uk/the-new-4ie-...fi-thermostat/
Declaration of interest: my son designed it. But even taking into account my fatherly rose-tinted spectacles it seems to be doing quite well, and it's nice to see a British heating company out-innovating the mighty Google/Nest etc.
The Salus is more sophisticated than you suggest. It splits the day into six periods and different default temperatures can be assigned to each (I left mine on the factory setting), it also has a holiday setting for when the house is vacant.
If you want full smartphone control look at Hive or Nest in the link I posted.
Ah, never realised that about the Salus. It does sound more intelligent than the Boss Therm which only allows you to split the day into 2 periods.
Do you need different zones? If not nest or hive...
I'd say hive as I launched it in the UK!!!
^^
And I install them.
I'd say go with HIVE.
If you have a combi its a very easy to fit yourself.
BG engineer I take it?Originally Posted by CaptainSlow
I was down in Staines for 7 years and was the product manager for Homecare...
Yes for all my sins.
Great product by the way I've installed more than I can remember and to this day there's been no complaints from customers about the product.
The only thing putting me off the Hive system is the wall mounted thermostat. Living room would be the logical location but the only suitable position is directly above a radiator. I'd much prefer a free standing thermostat.
Hive.
And you don't have to wall mount the thermostat. It's battery operated.
Yep... I've had it for around 4 years now and it works a treat... I like the new thermostat they've just brought out too - very shiny!!!
I did a fair amount of work on the pricing/ positioning of it... The app is a lot better now, really clear
They really need to get something out for the hot water side...
- - - Updated - - -
Correct... Mines on my shoe rack!
Is Hive compatible with an oil fired boiler?
The more I'm reading on this subject the further I'm moving away from Hive and Nest. I'm leaning towards the Salus it500 or the Tado system now.
The Tado seems to be slightly more intelligent and more fit and forget than Nest although it would seem like you have to have your phone data connection on almost all the time to get the full benefit.
Salus pretty much offers the Internet control that I want. Benefit of both seems to be that savings in first year should more than pay for the device and installation.
Down side of nest and hive is the greater cost which basically means savings are swallowed short term.
Reading the hive site I'm actually struggling to see the key features of the control it offers. I understand it's not as location controlled as the likes of nest or Tado but I don't understand what it does better than the Salus for almost double the cost. Any fitters, owners or marketeers care to elaborate?
I looked into this recently (and I think that I contributed to the previous thread).
I ended up going with a Netatmo, primarily because it came out top on a recent Which test (beating Tado, Nest, Hive and all of the rest). I managed to get it for £110 on Black Friday, down from a usual £140 (so it's a bit cheaper than the rest).
It was installed a few days ago but I've not been home yet to test it. I'm back tomorrow so I can give you some feedback then.
Hi... Had a look at silus, it offers you no more than hive... Both of these are dumb i.e. You set the setting at home or remotely and away they go... Hive, in my opinion, does this very nicely, I can't speak for Silus although the thermostat looks quite cool!
Tado looks interesting... This is a smart thermostat, and the geo- location is useful if you and your family vary the times that you leave and return to the house... Most families are pretty consistent with when they leave and return to the home, so,,doesn't necessarily mean a lot... I didn't get the bit about checking the weather?!!! A thermostat picks this up anyway I would have thought?
The water extension could be good as most tend heat big tanks in the morning and once again in the evening and it's not necessarily all used. What is not clear is whether they use some form of smart algorithm to work out the optimum setting for the way you use it... In our home we all shower in the morning and hot water is used when cleaning up in the evening, so, being able to track this and control the settings could well save on gas bills...
Also, the capability of having different zones and individual thermostats - spare rooms - upstairs and downstairs could be quite handy
If you'd benefit from the additional features Tado could be worth a punt (based on a quick ten minute look!!!)
Ben
Last edited by Wolfie; 22nd December 2015 at 12:51.
Thanks for that Wolfie.
It seems the cost or benefit of Hive over something like the Salus is the possible future add ons such as motion sensors, cameras etc. What is it they are calling them, honey comb or something?
I'm not sure the "geo-fencing" of Tado would actually benefit me. I could possibly see it costing me more as my wife is rarely further than a few miles from home most days so i wonder if the heating would activate every time she drove anywhere near the house (with a mile or so).
The features of something like the Tado with the versatility to switch to a number of set on/off cycles during a day would be ideal. Otherwise i think i'm looking at just updating to a slightly more versatile version of what I currently have.
I got the Netatmo thermostat on Black Friday for 112.50 which was a bit of a bargain I feel. It was easy to install although the instructions are non existent a fairly active forum lets you check wiring configs - there are only 4 wires anyway - 240 v + & neutral + gray & black which does the switching it switches mains or low voltage (mine is mains).
It isn't that sophisticated but has a web interface as well as apps - I originally had a bit far from the relay and it dropped signal a couple of times (although if you make a change to the program it will implement as soon as has found connection again) but is easy to see signal strength and find somewhere good before attaching to the wall.
** Edit - this means the relay needs to receive WiFi signal as well as communicate separately with the thermostat - although the wires can be extended it is probably worth considering if the boiler is in the garage/outbuilding/loft etc.
Overall am pleased with it although my previous thermostat was a 7 day program version so can't really compare and rather than "smart" I would more call it web enabled but suits me perfectly as my schedule varies I can come home to a warm house or turn the heating off if I decide not to come back on my usual schedule.
Last edited by MB2; 22nd December 2015 at 14:20.
Yesterday I bought 900l of oil for £260, which will keep us going for almost a year.
I wonder how long it would take me to recoup my outlay on one of these systems? Too long, I think.
This bit alone says Tado to me. If you're in, it heats as you'd like it (inc. different temps for different times of the day). When you're not in, it doesn't heat... but in crazy-cold weather, it doesn't allow the temperature to get too low, as doing so risks your pipes but also costs more to re-heat the home again.
As for your later point about the location geofencing, it works very soon after leaving the home and will turn off the heating quite quickly; within less than a mile for sure. It also learns how quickly your home heats and cools and adjusts itself as needed and starts heating again only if needed and only when it's required to get to your desired temperature for when you return. It doesn't think At Home = Heating On. It's entire setup is based around maintaining the optimum temperature when you're at home and finding the optimum way of reaching that temperature when you've been away. If the building is well insulated chances are it won't lose heat very quickly, so won't require a lot of re-heating if she only pops out briefly.
But, if your wife leaves the house and is 10-minutes away and it'll take 2-minutes to re-heat to your desired temperature, it will start heating when she's 2-minutes away. There is a chance that it'll heat when she gets near the house, even if in reality she'll drive straight past (it's intelligent, but not so intelligent it knows what you're about to do!), but this will only cost you more money if the temperature has dropped significantly and heats it prematurely. However, I'd argue that this makes it no different in this specific case to thermostats which heat on a timed-schedule regardless of your location.
You can control this behaviour to a degree too, you can decide whether Comfort (temperature / heating) or Cost is the priority. If you set it to be balanced towards Cost, it won't be so keen to re-heat when you're coming home. If you're worried that your wife won't go far enough away to benefit and it'll heat when not necessary, this control may help.
Also note that regardless of your location, it won't heat if it's already at your desired temperature.
The geo-fencing of Tado is, IMO, better than the Nest equivalent which detects movement in the house. In my case if I work from home I can spend extended periods in one room, which means I need to take the Nest with me to benefit, or else it won't detect my movement. Taco doesn't require that, it knows where I am via my phone.
I'm in my second winter now and it has definitely saved me money.
Just as an alternative:-
I have underfloor heating which has an inherent heating / cooling delay and therefore doesn't like being clacked on and off all the time!
I use dumb stats in every room and 2 'fall back stats, one up and one down which can override the timers.. I leave it on 24/7 at moderately low temps all winter and make sure that there are not massive differences between the set temps of adjoining areas. Unused bedrooms and hallways being set the lowest.
My boiler controller can override any zone's stat if it wants to, taking into account an outside temp sensor and a slab temp sensor in the floors. For instance it may ignore a room stat calling for heat if the outside temp is rapidly rising and the slab temp is already high.
When I go away I switch it 'off' and let the override stats take control to stop the place getting bitter.
Using this method I keep a much more even temp with no big on / off gradients and this works out far more economic in the long term. YMMV
Well I opted for Tado...... then a few hours later I opted out of Tado.
Their basic £4.99pm rental offer was due to run out today so I made a quick(ish) decision based on the fact they offer a 30 day money back guarantee and the option to switch to pay up front at any point in the first year. Thought, what the hell got to be worth a shot when it's that cheap. Added the starter kit and the the extension box to my basket which brings up the total annual charge (£95.76) but still states £4.99pm and £2.99pm for the extension box. Go through the basket and pay.
That afternoon I notice the full annual amount has been taken out of my account so i give them a call. It turns out the rental isn't exactly a rental. It's 2 lump sum payments over 2 years. The first being £95.76 the second being almost double. I went back on the website and checked to see if it was just me being a dafty. It's very misleading and that pissed me off so i called them up. I was dealt with by a German chap who sounded like he'd either just woken up or had been spending the afternoon smoking herbal cigarettes. He was pretty useless and basically said they were sending the kit and i'd just need to return it. A lot of shouting followed along with some threats and i've now been told they have cancelled the order and are refunding (which they have yet to do).
Back to square one.
Hive had in my last house and had BG install in my current house it is easy to use and the app is a doddle life is complicated why add to it?
BG. What's that then?
British Gas
If you're an Amazon Prime member buy the models you're considering, you then have a month to try them out and return what you don't want.
SG where you are ;)
jim
Great research thread guys, thanks for sharing you findings
I have a Worcester combi and one of my concerns was about having a decent retro fit of the thermostat controls at the boiler end. I have an existing Bosch wifi control thermostat but it drives us scatty with its complexity to change settings!
I'm still not sure if I need one or not but the Hive Active Heating 2 thingy is £129 on Amazon at the moment.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...=sr_1_1&sr=8-1
These are all great gadgets and sound incredibly useful, but you'll never recoup the cost.
I have my heating on permanently set around 18 degrees and it costs no more than when I had it on at set times, and the house is always warm.
Great price, you should save around £150 on energy so it won't take long to pay itself back.
also.... Starting yesterday BG have £50 off a hive (until Monday I think) making it £199 installed.
Which is nice as I had a hive promised for my Christmas present so that has now been ordered.
I've been looking at this for years and a couple of times have been close to ordering Hive.
Just moved and the system is oil so was a bit unsure but was just in curry's and they have Tado on offer for £149. Quite tempted at that.
My current system has a downstairs digital operating unit and an upstairs thermostat, so separated into two zones. Would Tado work for this? I saw on the leaflet it said zones coming in 2016
Yep... It would do... You'd just have the reciever unit plugged in where your current thermostat is... Your thermostat speaks to your wireless thermostat which can be placed anywhere...
Your wireless thermostat then speaks to the dongle which you plug into your router and allows your app to contol your thermostat...
Thanks
Will give this a go then
Netatmo are currently giving 15% off everything: http://shop.netatmo.com/gbp_en/?utm_...GDAY_UK_151226
The code is BOXING15.
They are also offering 30 cash back which backdates for Black Friday purchases. https://www.netatmo.com/images/downl...r-th-en-GB.pdf
Would I have to use a dongle ???? I only have WiFi in house and don't think I have socket for dongle, Unless it plugs into BT hub type routers
Thanks John
You'll have a BT hub router that will take an Ethernet plug... Simply stick it in there and away you go...!
The dongle then speaks wirelessly to your thermostat... It simply allows you to run the App
Cheers
Ben
Has anyone any idea of the annual saving using these systems?
Or are they just a gadget of convenience?
BG couldn't make any claims around savings for Hive as it isn't smart... Stands to reason that with a bit of tighter and remote control you'll expect to save a few quid
I think Tado claimed some figures - 31% - that is hugely ambitious
Even if it's 5% - 10% (still probably optimistic in reality) it's worth saving... You might save £30 - £50 a year... So, if you're looking at ROI it's probably worth it if you're in the same home for the next 3+ years
Ben
Netatmo reckon energy savings of 37%. You can estimate your savings here: https://www.netatmo.com/economy
Had the new Nest with hot water control fitted a week or so ago. Very happy with it.
Went away for Christmas, turned the heating back on 40mins before we got home and arrived to a warm house. Lovely.
Hive is good for people who have set schedules but occasionally change them, so you can use the hive app to change timings and temps on the fly from anywhere as long as you have a data connection. It's not smart in the sense that it doesn't self learn, but I don't want my future schedules and temps to be based on my use history, doesn't always work well that way.
Hive can do that as standard too. Not sold on nest added value.
I can only see any real savings coming from people who didn't have a decent programmer previously and so left the heating on a lot when they went out - many combi boilers come without a programmer for example. I am not sure how much a more efficient heating algorithm can save in actual use as in the non smart world if you found the house cold when you woke up you set the heating to come on earlier.
I am finding the Netatmo very convenient - I turned it off when I left the house for Christmas and just turned it back on remotely now. Previously I would have had to program the heating and either correctly anticipate my return or come back to a cold or unnecessarily heated house so I do think will pay for itself eventually but I bought on convenience rather than cost savings.
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