Reply With QuoteTom, thát one is só cool.
Totally understating that it is thé most accurate wristwatch.
The large face makes it look totally modern too. That crown makes a nuts&bolt guy like me smíle.
Wow, do I like this one.
Morning all
I have been waiting for this grail for quite some time and about twenty minutes ago the postie called with a special parcel for me.
As you know I love 60's and 70's watches, especially Omega and particularly Megaquartz and the 1500 family watches which to this day remain the most accurate wrist watches produced.
I wont blather with detail, this link provides a great background on these land mark time pieces
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Marine_Chronometer
About three years ago I got wind that Omega has sold the movement to Audemars in 1975, Omega have always maintained they never sold the movement to any other manufacturer but inn fact they did, the original R&D cost of the 1500 family of watches was over CHF3,000,000, which at the time was an enormous sum of money, despite the watches huge price tags Omega lost a great deal of money on the 1500 series. Part of this was due to their prohibitive price tag (they were by far the most expensive watches in Omegas range).
In 1974 Omega sold around 400 movements to Audemars Piguet who produced a tiny run of outrageously expensive Marine Chronometers of their own, although they were simply branded as Quartz (250 in total), I have never seen one in the wild, only in images.
The movement is a silver finish AP branded calibre 1511, the case is specifically designed by AP to house the movement and the BCT appears to be almost identical in construction to the Speedy 125, most where SS, I have seen one image of an 18K example.
Anyway, after a year of waiting this NOS beauty has arrived and is now on my wrist, fingers crossed I now own ever variant of the 1500 family of watches (including the prototypes) with the exception of the 18K Marine Chronometer, of which they only made 10 examples
As you can see its similar in proportion to the Marine Chronometer
It has a great wrist presence, it's really nicely designed and put together and all round I am absolutely delighted with it.
Cheers Tom
Another huge thank you for sharing
Tom, thát one is só cool.
Totally understating that it is thé most accurate wristwatch.
The large face makes it look totally modern too. That crown makes a nuts&bolt guy like me smíle.
Wow, do I like this one.
Great watch(es) and great write up.
What an amazing find!
Regards,
Adam
Very nice Tom…. Although I think I would rather have the Omega on my wrist…. Lovely thing to own
Very cool Tom, another one for the stable.
You can see the AP design history right up to today in it.
C
This has gone straight to my favourites list. Thanks, brilliant thread. Shame you can't sell an app for the new Apple watch with the Omega face design- I think it would be suited perfectly.
Any chance of more pics of the AP please?
Nice and interesting post and that AP is lovely, certainly the more modern design. Congratulations on your find.
Very nice - I think I prefer the cleaner look of the AP over the Omega ... I think.
Tom, does this mean you didn't go for that AP 4 years ago (which admittedly didn't look in as good condition as this beauty!)?
Fantastic find. Again!
It never ceases to amaze me how you dig items like this up. Very interesting case design. I wonder whatever happened to the other movements AP didn't use? Kept as a spares cache maybe? Do you have any background on the original price comparison between the two was? The MC was as you say mad money at the time, I imagine the AP was more?
You might like this, a scan I made from a December 1972 (if I remember well) Playboy - showing the Marine Chronometer with an rrp of $1850. The same year the price of a Rolex 1019 Milgauss was $275, and a 5513 Sub was $146, just to put things into perspective.
The Seiko 0634 would be launched for 350$ just after.Originally Posted by SimonK
Tom, that is a really nice addition to your collection. I have never seen one of those, even online, nor heard of the model. Unlike a good number of early quartz watches from that period, it appears truly wearable in size and in style. I prefer it over the Omega in that respect: I’d happily wear the AP.
Roughly how much would the AP have cost? Something like £10,000 in today’s terms, perhaps?
Lovely watch.
Did someone mention spare movement?? Ive got that covered
I missed the one a few years ago, ive had this one a little while but being waiting for it to come back from service at Swiss times services Swiss tec division, as usual they've done an amazing job
I am absolutely loving the watch, it's just so well put together and as a few people have said it wouldn't look out of place in today's line up
Great looking piece - thanks for sharing
That's a really nice looking watch, nice pickup
What a lovely looking thing!
as mentioned above, you can see some of the AP DNA in there which is something i really like.
I wonder why no one has managed to make anything more accurate since then?
Regarding accuracy, as a few Quartz nuts will tell you, they have, things like the double Eagle perpetual calendars and of course the radio controlled watches, however nothing with this 'spirit'
As a couple of people have mentioned, back in the day the omega versions were the equiviant of £12-£40k (£40k being 18k gold) version so Lord only knows what the AP cost in 1975!!!!
Marvellous stuff!
And even a spare movement, what a bonus.
The movement looks built to last, a lot of metal and sturdy looking parts.
Never even knew AP where in the quartz game that early.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Daddel
These early quartz units were a world from the watches we know today, like the B21 the MQ2.4 was designed like a mechanical watch, they really are a work of art
Last edited by dickstar1977; 25th April 2015 at 18:27.
Really good looking as well, and they already used the hobnail dial :)
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Really like that, the design has aged very well.
Its academic but I think I prefer that to most of their current range.
That does look in fabulous condition and like you mentioned, wouldn't look out of place today.
Interestingly this was audemars first ever Quartz watch and they only produced it for 12 month in 250 examples.
im still very suprised they chose the 1511/ 1510 calibre as by that time there were a lot of very good quality Quartz on the market from GP, Jaeger as well as the much more economical 1310 from Omega but I can only think that they took the approach that price was irrelevant and they wanted the very best Quartz movement in the world, which the MQ2.4mhz certainly was
Beautiful watch, interestingly I'd read about AP using the Omega 1510 movement earlier this week in my copy of Electrifying the Wristwatch. Wanting to know more I ran a few searches, most of the information found online link to your posts Tom :)
I've owned an AP quartz too, the rather unpopular Royal Oak rectangular.
I think the thing is everyone poo poo's if it's quartz but bottom line is an AP is an AP and that that, plus the fact they used simply the best quartz movements in the world, firstly the 1510/11 and then the Ferrari.
There are a couple for sale on Chrono 24, one 18K, which is priced at £10K (although this might seem high, compare it to a Patek B21 D'Or and its a bargain) and one in SS for around £5K
Last edited by dickstar1977; 25th April 2015 at 20:11.
Im not normally a fan AP's but that is stunning mate.
I like that very much indeed!
Fantastic. Congratulations of obtaining something for which the word "rare" genuinely applies.
Quite apart from the technical ratity, it's a very good looking watch too.
Very much so DS. With the subsequent cheapening of quartz movements down to 1 jewel Rondas(even though that itself is impressive for other reasons), it can be easy to forget that for a time these were the future, the top of the line and the last word in luxury, with build quality to match. A mate of mine who has near zero interest, nor knowledge of watches but knows I'm a watch weirdo, saw my Longines Ultraquartz for the first time and exclaimed "bloody hell, what's that? Something new? It looks expensive".
Even something as mundane today as the type of low powered "silicon chip" used in these early quartz(with some exceptions like the first Astrons and Ultraquartz) had barely gone into production by 1970 and were extremely expensive. The first stepping motors were complex and made up from bits of unobtanium(hence the very early production types like the Beta 21 usually used the well proven tuning fork tech until Girard Perregaux nailed their version). Before large scale photographic type processes the quartz crystals themselves were hand shaped bars of natural quartz, with hand applied minute pieces of gold to tune them to the correct frequency. Crazy delicate work.
What also impresses me about these early quartz is how so many are still working. They really were built to last and with a few exceptions were built to be serviced and fixed. The GP 350 movement was specifically designed to be old style watchmaker friendly from the get go. Given the number of tuning fork watches around at the time, something like a Beta 21 would also be within their sphere of expertise with little enough of a learning curve. The Beta 21 was supported by spares and updated chips and the new 32khz frequency quartz oscillators up to the dawn of the 1980's. By the time of the Omega 1500 series they had become much more specialised, but still even today you can get one serviced and working again. That says much about the technology and quality under the bonnet of these watches. My hope for the future is that with the increasing influence of small scale "home" manufacturing and the world market of the interwebs, even long dead examples may yet live again. Certainly the knowledge and community who dig these watches has grown a lot. When I got my first GP 350 and Omega 1310 in the mid noughties, there was little enough info and even fewer avenues of servicing them.
Big shout out to Omega too. In this period of horological game changing they were so far ahead of everyone else the rest would have required the services of the Hubble telescope to see them. TBH Omega generally leave me cold for some reason(I'm a Longines man to the marrow :)), but not this period in their history. I've had a few Omegas pass my wrist over the years, from 60's dress Seamasters, to an 80's era Speedy, but the only Omega I've kept to this day is my Mariner 1 with the 1310 movement and "Quartz" proudly displayed on the case.
Ah here D, now you're just rubbing it in. :D
It's a real beauty DS. I've been following your posts on these early quartz for a long time now and your real enthusiasm, knowledge and affection for these watches shines through in every line. I know the time, effort and research you put into the hunt and I'm really chuffed to see you got yet another rare beauty. For me that AP really couldn't have found a better home.I am absolutely loving the watch, it's just so well put together and as a few people have said it wouldn't look out of place in today's line up
Except for mine of course and if it ever feels the need for a knees up in Dublin and a tour of the Wicklow mountains for a week's break, I'm willing to sacrifice my time for that. Oh and if an MC wants to tag along I got the space. Just saying like…
Thanks for the
Ronda, that híghly successfull SWÍSS manufacturer of cheap quartz movements.
Very seldomly mentioned, it was the despite the currency disaster very healthy Ronda who showed Hayek the way how to relaunch the Swiss mechanical mass production industry.
Wow, what a fantastic watch. Love the era and the style. Very intresting thread thanks for posting.
Another amazing find Tom
THIS is what is good about this forum, relevant, interesting and informative, thanks for posting. As usual, I head off to Google, I want one. :-)
That watch is just scintillating. Bloody well done.
What a fine watch! Congrats on a great acquisition.
Great retro vibe to it.
Chye
That's an incredible piece of watch history right there! Well done on finding this; I do love your ability to find these things!!
I love this forum - learning something new everyday.
Thanks for sharing, I would never have known such a thing existed otherwise! Enjoy your watch OP.
That is soooooooo cool Tom!!!!
Thanks all
I must admit I am delighted with it, it takes a lot to get me to stray from Omega but this is twice in two weeks, first with the Rado Beta 21 and now with this and I love both, I haven't taken the AP off since I got it and it just wears so so well
Ohh now that is a cool catch Tom, I agree its ok to stray from the Omegas for that one :)
I think its easy to be astounded by how many early quartz are still around on first look, but the reason they are is that they were properly made to allow repair. There is a very true disctinction between early quartz and the tat that came out later, and then the modern versions we have today. The middle era was a souless era where cheap time was king and people would just buy another watch (from a petrol station) when a battery died as it was less hassle. Luckily the early days gave us accuracy along with repair-ability, a trait that is sadly lacking today where its cheaper to just replace whole movements rather than repair them, even with very expensive quartz watches.
I hear that one Sir. It's one of the things I love about this hobby/madness, when you get a personal "grail", or a watch you've had an eye on, it's like being 8 years of age again on christmas morning proudly wearing your first Timex or whatever. I had similar recently after I found my GP "chip dial". Great feeling. :) They can be time machines in more ways than one.
Very much so and the quality of materials was so much higher too. Even today with the subsequent advances in production technology if Omega decided to relaunch the 1500 series quartz it would not be a cheap endeavour. Neither would something like a Beta 21/22. The only parts that would be much cheaper today would be the integrated circuitry(and the quartz).
On the repair front of the early days of quartz I did find out about one exception. A contact in Longines was able to tell me that the only repair part number for their UltraQuartz was the movement itself. No subassemblies or individual parts. It was considered a replace movement job. Then again compared to other movements of that time they were a little more than a fantastically whacky pre production prototype where watchmakers in the wild weren't considered.
Another possible reason for their longevity is that quite the number didn't sell originally as they were so expensive and by the time they might have been discounted the tech and fashion had moved on. I seem to recall that even Omega MC's were sold off to their staff at massive reductions at the end of their production life. I have noticed down the years that many of these era watches with dedications on the back are dated a number of years after they would have been produced. The latest I saw was a 1973(going by the chip code, serial and style) GP 350 with a dedication in the back engraved in 1983, a full decade after it was made. I also seem to remember there were quite the number of NOS GP, JLC examples that came to light a few years back.
A likely whacky theory I've had for their longevity is maybe because the size of the electronics was much larger than today (or even by the 80's), that degradation over time that happens with electronics was happening more slowly? Then again all this could also be survivor bias. We're only seeing the working ones, whereas the dead ones have long ended up in landfill. I do recall reading on a site/forum about mid 70's LED watches and even with the big names their warranty failures were scarily high. Like a third failing in the first year high.
I believe they also collaborated with Tag Heuer on the joint development of the Calibre S movement; really like what they did there a very complex and lovely movement.
Oh dear, this is the third betrayal in as many weeks to my Omega cause
Another watch ive wanted for some time, a nice basically nos master quartz JLC needs a new circuit so should be wearable next week
Very impressive and very well made watch, build quality is easily on a par with omega and even the AP
Excellent! Welcome to the club. Nice to see that you've scooped one without the dreaded dial rot.
Yep very pleased with the JLC, this one is basically as new, a few storage marks but superb! Must admit I am a lot more impressed than I expected to be, it is a superb watch and they are tremendous value for money with good ones still being available for under £1000 (although this will inevitably change)
Congrats on another Fantastic watch.Really over engineered. Have more than a touch of the Genta design vibe about them too.
+1. A big issue with these and other 70's blue dials. Seems to be climate based too. I don't think I've ever seem an Italian or Spanish example that didn't have blue dial leprosy.
And often enough much less if it's in a Bay auction D. Example in gold plate 200 quid. The date problem is a doddle to sort. The gold ones usually fetch much less anyway. I missed out on a SS one a couple of months back that ended up going for around 140 sterling. A couple of NOS cases for them came up from Spain of all places a while ago. IIRC the highest priced one went for around 60 sterling(I'm calculating from euro so…). Handy if you have a ropey case.
The way you hunt for the rarest of the rare Omega, I'm kinda like that D, only I hunt for the cheapest of the cheap I can't believe you got that for how much? you utter cheapskate bas…. angle.
Outside of dealer prices I've noticed a slight trend with the GP 350 engined JLC's to be if anything softening in price a little over the last six months. Though they're always a higher premium than the GP ones, even if it's exactly the same case, dial, hands etc as the GP equivalent. The Favre's tend to be cheaper again. I've been keeping my eye out for the "oscilloscope" dial JLC, the sawtooth one is pretty cool too but I have to wait until the beer tokens build up again. :)
With these GP engined watches I used to avoid non working ones like the plague, but not anymore. Of the described as non working ones I've bought I've only had two completely dead ones so far and worst case scenario a rougher cased one that does work will be along within a couple of weeks as an organ donor and usually for well under a hundred quid, even forty quid. They really are as you say tremendous value for money. Doubly so at the moment if you're a UK buyer in sterling from the EU. If these had even a basic automatic movement in them you'd likely be looking at double, triple, quadruple the price.
Last edited by Wibbs; 27th April 2015 at 21:17.
I have an as new gold plate with brown dial as you know and am ever so impressed with the quality, Faraday cage and all.
It is survivor bias.
The early LCDs had a field return rate even higher, some wáy higher but the ones that survived the first year probably still live.
Very nice watches!
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