A partially indexed bezel is hard to take seriously in something calling itself a dive watch. This isn't just Omega either, I am stunned with how many companies use this antiquated style of bezel in otherwise modern watches. Looking pretty doesn't cut it when the core function of the watch hasn't been properly executed. The HRV is entirely naff too.Originally Posted by Captainhowdy
That's why standards are so high, nothing has even came close to matching this for my required spec.
I prefer the SMP to the PO but both are good looking watches.
I believe the numbers you quoted refer to maximum difference between two positions. From what I've read, the daily accuracy of the grades for an ETA 2824 are as follow:
Standard grade: +/-12 seconds/day.
Elaborated grade: +/-7 seconds/day.
Top grade: +/-4 seconds/day.
However, it's hard to really compare the movements without knowing the complete accuracy specs from Seiko and they only provide those for GS level movements.
I thought all the specs being discussed here were for positional variance?
As I understand it the numbers you've given are for average daily variation between positions, whereas the ones I've given are for maximum daily variation between positions. There are a whole other set of specs for isochronism too, but I can't be bothered to go find them.
I thought all movement specs are based on one or the other, because it would be too hard to give an absolute maximum and minimum for how much a movement will deviate taking into account all other factors, but I might very well be wrong about that, and am happy to be corrected.
Oh, the ones JP stated are just daily accuracy. Well, at least the 6R15 one. That one is from the manual:
Loss/gain (daily rate): +25 – 15 seconds at normal temperature range (between 5°C and 35°C)
I assume the 8L35 spec is just daily rate too but I don't have a mm300 and the manual isn't online so I can't confirm. Everything else you said it right from my understanding too.
I'm out of my depth...
Somebody cause a distraction while I get out of this thread.
run SK, run!
It's core function is adequately executed. It will suffice as a tool for those who's primary interest it is to gallivant around, pretending to be divers.
Strange how a thread develops from the OP not understanding Seiko, to how the specs of a watch exactly should be for someone to consider buying it.
If it did this and had that and cost less, then I would.........bla bla bla
Clearly my first post in this thread said if you don't get it don't buy one.
But that's apperently not enough for some people to leave it at that.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Perhaps it's not yet dawned on you that you are a simple contributor on this forum, you do not decide were people "leave it"
I suggest that you start you're own forum and moderate and set the rules.
OK and about what I was thinking. When talking divers it is not so many COSC-specs (or similar) divers under 1500 but Stowa is or was the one.
I have few standard grade 2824-2 what are regulated to run within COSC specs on daily avarage. How ever after some years I have found a position when those will not run on on COSC specs. There are partly visible differences between lower grade 2824s and TOP/COSC -versions and one the long run (years) that difference will come possible to measure. How ever I am very happy if and when my basic ETA -diver still run in 15 sec or so in all positions after so many years.
JP
I repeat my previous suggestion that the two of you get a room for this kind of unnecessary comments and stop harassing others with it.
As I see it, Seiko has a cheap line, with good, reliable, dive watches for not too much money (the 7s26 and quartz divers).
Then there is the higher class version, like the MM, at a higher price-point, but better finished, better movement etc.
The top of the bill are the bling divers, only needed to improve the chances of muff diving. Like the GS diver.
The choice of material changes:
cheap range: - cheap bezel inserts, easily replaced, hardlex crystal, finish is quite standard, rattly bracelet, cheap movement poorly adjusted
middle range: - better quality bezel, made to be used while diving, so no ceramic as that is prone to breaking, hardlex crystal as that is more shatterproof (although it is more prone to scratching), better quality bracelet with integrated device to wear it over neoprene and a good movement, but not adjusted to its max. Very adequate for the job would be the best description.
high end: expensive materials, top quality finish, expensive and decorated movement, high gloss dial, polish, sapphire crystal and ceramic bezel, as they are just for looks and not for use. Can be used for diving, but probably won't get any further than the owner's pool...
Must agree. And I stand corrected. No ceramic bezel on real diver to me either.
JP
Yeah, I'm about the same. I've got a watch with a standard 2824 running at +12 seconds, and one which I think is elaborated, but I'm not even sure on that, running at +6.
My own personal standards are less than exacting. I like there to be net gain rather than loss, but as long as its not gaining a silly amount, it's fine. Really, I take the view I should treat running outside specs as an indication the watch may need a service and not worry about accuracy beyond that.
Frankly the importance of accuracy in mechanical watches is nearly zero for people like me, who have quite some watches and change them all the time. Mechanical watches often have stopped running when I decide to wear them, so I have to set them anyway.
However, I prefer a watch running a few seconds on the plus instead of minus side.
That way, I certainly won't be late on an appointment.
ETA 500$ > Seiko 500$ 6R15
if i can pay 500USD for an ETA (Seinhart/Squale) i would pick it over any 6R15 movement Seikos. The overall quality of a Steinhart is better then the Seiko. Based on me having 3 ETA watcher (Squale and steinhart) and 2 Seikos 6r watcher (SARB/SARX)
less then 500$ watches I would go with Seiko all day.
I have no expreience with GS vs Rolex/AP or other expensive Swiss made.
I would look at the quality as well as the design.
Many things are very personal and if you prefer a Steinhart or Squale over a Seiko: go for it!
At the approx. 500 Dollar level there is a lot of nice stuff to be found.
I will admit that design is not Steinharts strong side, beeing that all their watches are hommage/"copyies".
Im just talking about the machining and engineering of the watch: including Straps/braclett/bezel,case, crown, finish, lum etc.
I've got watches with ETA 2824 (PRS-22), and Seiko 6R15 (SARB017) movements.
I am very happy with them. Both are good movements in their price range.
What's the problem?
My point was that i dont think Seiko the best bang for buck at 500$ pricerange.
As said, at that price there are many well made watches.
Get what you consider the best VFM or like best!
In the end it all depends on the way people weigh certain elements!
The outcome for a dozen people could be a dozen different watches - and that is perfectly OK!
About same here.
Personally I think that the new Seiko monster with 4r36 is compatible to standard ETA2824 -divers when looking movement. Case etc is also comparable or near by to most european lower end divers what are minimum double priced.
Seiko Sumo 4r36 is even some how better (+ 50 hours running time vs. 38) than ETA2824 excluding of course top and cosc -versions what you don't often see under 500 euro (or even 700 or 1000 euro) price class.
Seiko Sumo is around 500 usd so my "limit" also.
Higher end Seikos like MM300 I personally see not so competitive brand wise because by same price it is possible to find some nice swiss divers also. Still mechanically aso MM300 is propably better than same price level swiss are.
JP
Really?
And what watch, costing 50 times as much as either of these, can do what each of these can do?
and that's a serious question.
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
The Sumo has the 6r15 movement :-)
What's that? Looks good! Do you have some more info on that?R
and that's a serious question.
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...5-Anticipation – check 'cilla's link at about 8 or 10 posts in.
Hi Bernard, it's a Seoko Breitz SDGA001. Uses an e-ink display as opposed to the usual LCD which is far clearer and much easier to read. Has multiple display formats too and I rather like this one: -
or you can be more traditional if you wish: -
Absolutely love it, solar powered, radio sync so very very accurate too. What's not to like.
Lots of info here from our very own Huertecilla: - http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...001-EPD-matrix
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
Griswold and PJS, thanks!
In one of my posts today, I said I didn't like the current lineups of some brands.
This is something innovative, very nice!
Fair enough, but the question is this: Can it impress plebs?
That, I don't know; you'll have to ask a pleb.
On the other hand, neither is likely to raise the question of "is it a fake?"
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlebsThat, I don't know; you'll have to ask a pleb.
On the other hand, neither is likely to raise the question of "is it a fake?"
Seems hard to me to find a Roman citizen, not a patrician, to give his / her opinion on the matter.
"In ancient Rome, the plebs was the general body of free Roman citizens who were not patricians, as determined by the census. Shopkeepers, crafts people, and skilled or unskilled workers might be plebeian (/plɨˈbiːən/; Latin: plebeius).[1]"
Do let us know.
We will call you to the bridge when further information comes to hand, have no fear, captin.
My bad. Of course it is :-)
I dont think the eta movement is better, but watch finish is better on the steinhart
I like mine on green straps
What model(s) Steinhart you have? I dont have Steinhart or Seiko sarb/sarx so can't really say but I have 009, Monsters and Sumo and surely Suno case is better finished than others. That said 009 or Monster are not "badly" finished but rather standard when Sumo have a details and a little luxory on it.
JP
I have ocean1 and Squale atmos20. Both watches are better then skx and sarb. Not saying saying Seiko is bad. But not as good, at least instead 500$ range. Just look at bracelets from seiko
Ok and as said I agree the difference between SKX009 and Sumo also. The bracelets: Have you seen monster or Sumo SEL bracelets? There is a big difference to 009 "president" style.
That Squale is interesting. Something more Tudor than Rolex style to me. Maybe small review please :-)
JP
Bracelet fit and finish from Omega wasn't where it is now some 20 yrs ago.
Seiko's high end watches probably have better bracelets than the lower end ones.
To me it isn't very important as I usually prefer a watch on a leather strap.
Dang, I need a 6105.....like that on the OD strap. I like that a lot.I like mine on green straps
Very true. I think folded links and end links were rather standard on Omega (and many others like Rolex) to early 90s or so. And I have "a few" of those.
Seiko's high end watches really seems to have have better bracelets than the lower end ones but exception is the monster serie. Straigh end so no need to end pieces and solid links and ok clasp. Same or smilar on Sumo but solid end links also. So far I think that there are better bracelets also from Seiko to lower end models. But price is near the watc price then or at least half.
That said the bracelet on Sumo is not Omega level but nice enough.
JP
One of the best braclets i've ever handled was on the Velatura line. It was beatifully finished.
http://www.a-moriden.jp/seiko/srh001.html
Tks very much! You should definitely look one up, highly recommended. Solid accuracy for a vintage watch if properly regulated
It's a funny thing with Seikos. I have read through many of the posts and while many say the usual "buy what you like...etc." I understand the Op's position. Seiko makes an unbelievably good watch for the money, probably the best. The 7t59 as mentioned earlier, IMO looks better than a Daytona at 1/10 the price and the movement is possibly on par. For me the issue has always been that they could never quite take a watch to that final, perfect step, almost, but not quite. The old divers of yore were as close as they got to an icon of perfection. That being said, when you get in the Grand Seiko range, there are so many other brands that have that extra "it" factor. This is what I think the OP is referring to when "not getting it." And I have to agree.
This is of course just one person's opinion and please consider that we're all here to talk watches because it's fun. I don't think many of us are here to "waste" each others time and only want good academic questions and answers.
I enjoyed this post and it made me think.
cheers.
For around the 100 grand mark you can choose a lot of nice cars, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Jaguar.
Isn't it so that they all have their own style? The Audi a bit more clinical than a Jaguar, the Mercedes less sporty than a BMW.
There is room for all of them and people should get what they like and can afford.
Same goes for watches: if you think a GS is too clinical and lacks that "extra": don't get one. You would regret it and have a poor experience.
How can you amass enough force when diving to shatter a sapphire crystal if you hit it on something?
Can somebody educate me?
Mainly because I'm convinced that the above quote is pish.
Real Men Don't Eat Quiche, I think is what he's trying to say! Or, that acrylic is the world's strongest material, and cannot be broken, whereas sapphire is extremely fragile, and shatters if you stare at it hard enough and is therefore ill-suited to use on watches. And that anyone who doesn't agree, is basically a poseur?
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I is a Hardlex fan coz I is 'ard, innit.
I eat Lumibrite for breakfast too - my doings glow in the dark.
Well 'ardlex.
And nobody should eat quiche.. Real men OR seiko wearers.
I've been pushed by currents into reefs and fractured a rib. I've had carabiners trashed when pushed onto rocks. Its not hard to break a watch crystal in such a situation, so I'm not sure why you arrived at your conclusion.
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