Reply With QuoteMany love them because they perceive them to do the same thing a watch costing 50 times as much does.
They are, however, wrong.
I see a lot of Seiko love online. Not just here, but on WUS, Reddit, and elsewhere. I know that the brand causes zealout-like tendencies, and I see threads with Seiko drooling here there and everywhere.
"You bought a Rolex/IWC/insert-luxury-brand-here? Yuk. Why not Grand Seiko?"
"Why bother with a Submariner when you could have a Monster/Tuna/SKX007?"
OK I might have made up both of those quotes but I'm trying to illustrate a point.
I want to like Seikos. They're cheap, they are utilitarian, they use their own in-house movements, they do posh expensive ones, but I look at Seikos through the ages and not one has jumped out at me.
My first "proper" watch was an Orient (yes, I know they're owned by Seiko, but as I understand it they're pretty much run independently). I can't see any tangible advantage to buying a Seiko over an Orient in the low-price segment:
Cheap dress watch? Look how the Bambino compares to similarly priced Seikos...
Cheap diver?
Not big enough?
There is also another factor that makes the Seiko pill hard to swallow. They also sell cheap alarm clocks:
That is not to mention their apparent lack of ability to describe their product lines. I was reading the post about the Seiko dictionary, and was trying to think how many other brands in the world have such a diluted brand "image". Solar, Kinetic, 5, 5 Sports, Dive, Solar Dive, Chrono Solar Dive, Sportura, each with 17 slight variants...
So, what am I missing? I'm interested and genuinely open-minded - I'm ready to be convinced!
Oh, and also, as a lefty those 4 o'clock crowns look like they'd dig into my wrist something rotten...
I am now going to put on my hard hat and flame-proof clothing...
Many love them because they perceive them to do the same thing a watch costing 50 times as much does.
They are, however, wrong.
Telling the time?Originally Posted by burnsey66
Doesn't sound like it.
I am, gov, honest :)
I was just giving my (layman's) view of them
The value issue is certainly part of my enthusiasm for Seiko and Orient (I own both). And while I'm perfectly happy to concede that the better offerings from the major Swiss makers could well be worth 5 or 10 times as much as my lovely Orient Star or Seiko SKX I'm afraid that, for me, a factor of x20, let alone x50, is a bit of a triumph of marketing over metal. I'd just rather spend my 'fun money' differently, I guess.
My own feeling is that, over the last year or two, more members on here have started to share my view.
Seiko has very nice models, both current and from the past.
They tend to give very good VFM and people notice.
If you look at their chronometers, their first automatic chronograph, the first quartz analogue chronograph etc., you'll have to notice that the quality and finish is very good. The fact is that Seiko can produce an ultra-cheap timekeeper that will work for years and might not be your choice, but they also have high precision and high quality watches in their range.
I have several Seiko's - which I really like, especially my 6138 (Panda, UFO), 7016 (Monaco), 7A48's (moonphase chrono's) - and have nothing against the brand. Does it mean I think there are no other good brands out there? Certainly not. There are lots of nice watches, find out what you like and get that!
Please look here, to get a better idea about the different Seiko's:
http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...ow-your-Seikos
I have to admit I prefer Orient over Seiko. I just find them more durable. They look smarter too.
Don't bother about the hat or flameproof stuff.
We are not going down that route again, why should I convince you? Buy what you like, if it's costing you that much trouble, why bother?
As someone stated above, plenty of choice elsewhere.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Not everybody is going to like everything the same, so there's nothing you're "missing". For me, Seiko polarises just as much as Rolex or other brands.
The Seiko brand for me is model specific. I have two 7t59 models which are very rare but incredibly functional. I have two Seikos on their way to me as I type and will be reviewing them in due course.
The he monster is a watch I've flipped several times. Too rattley, inaccurate etc but good for it's value, especially I'm the creation sale.
You don't have to get it. I personally dislike every orient I've ever seen but that's just my view.
I love seiko, and that's it. Orient are nice but I don't find them as good vfm as seiko especially in the 250-300GBP. Orient star are for example nice but seiko sarb are just better (I have own both).
When it comes to vintage, sure orient has some cool ones but no way near this...
But buy what you like ;)
Last edited by Jockinho; 14th August 2014 at 11:54.
Try to look beyond the brand and look at the watch...
Why do you want to like Seikos?
I don't like having hot pins pushed into my eyes (a feeling some have when looking at a Seiko) but I have no desire to grow, to be convinced, to like it.
I LOVE my 6105!!!!!!!
Why are you trying to like Seiko?
If there's nothing in the range you like, move on, like many on here I'm not actually a watch collector I currently have 5 watches that I wear as the mood takes me, at one end I have a Rolex, and at the other I have a quartz Seiko, truthfully I don't love any of them, but I like them all for different reasons, so far nothing Hublot has ever made appeals to me, but who knows what the future holds, this thread has the potential to polarise so I've said my piece and I'm out.
The one think that annoys me about Seikos is they always have a date… even a day as well. I'm not a fan of dates on watches personally BUT saying that, I won this Seiko from a little competition on here and I change into this watch every day at work! Its bashed around a bit but it means I don't have to worry about it at all.
So oddly this gets worn more than anything else. Its not a watch I think about to much, so with the 007 I wear a watch like a normal person. All other I am a bit obsessive like a true WIS…
Seiko basically run a business that has much lower margins and rely on higher sales. They make lots of different watches from quartz to automatic. Divers, chronos etc.. if you want a reliable watch and don't care about brand cache they're a great choice.
Where brands like Rolex strive to build upon its sport watch legacy, they use excellent brand management combined with superb design and high manufacturing standards to create a image for which they charge a premium.
Despite what some fans may believe, or want to believe. Seiko has a brand cache equivalent to Casio or Citizen. It's a make of watch. There is nothing at all wrong with any of those, they are successful companies due to their skill at making watches.
Personally I think Seiko designs are not to my taste, they feel like derivative of iconic designs from Swiss companies. I feel European and Americans are just superior in design in nearly all things to Asia, it's a culture thing. Be it clothes or computer software or even mobile phones.
I loved all my Samsung Galaxy phones, for being superbly functional. But the iPhone 5 is a far more beautiful thing which creates a desire outside of its function.
Last edited by CVByrne; 14th August 2014 at 12:46.
These threads never get old.
You have to respect the large range of watches Seiko makes and some of their higher end watches are superb. It is no co-incidence that my last watch is a Seiko and this is following 4 watches all with manufacturer pedigree and in house movements that cost significantly more!
What he said.Why are you trying to like Seiko?
If there's nothing in the range you like, move on, like many on here I'm not actually a watch collector I currently have 5 watches that I wear as the mood takes me, at one end I have a Rolex, and at the other I have a quartz Seiko, truthfully I don't love any of them, but I like them all for different reasons, so far nothing Hublot has ever made appeals to me, but who knows what the future holds, this thread has the potential to polarise so I've said my piece and I'm out.
Why force yourself to like any watch or company? Wear what you like.
I understand the lower end of Seiko its £5000 end of he market ones I don't get ...
Yep, look at the watches.
There is often something special in the way they reflect light (in the high range).
In the low range (Monster, SARB) they are really good VFM and have much more appeal than their price equivalent (Hamilton, Oris...).
I have 2 Seiko divers (SKX, MM300) and they are beaters and do real dives with me.
I have 1 Grand Seiko for my own pleasure.
I have Rolex/Panerai for my WIS satisfaction.
Well it makes sense in that people build a love for Seiko over the years from their reliable, diverse and affordable line. So when one comes to love the brand they want to own the very high end too. People collect everything in this world, so being specific to Seiko brand is no different.
I do understand what you mean though about the £5000 end, you are spending a large amount of money on a brand that doesn't have the cache of other brands. But things like this exist across more sectors than watches.
Like one of the posters above/below, I tend to fall for models rather than brands. I too bought an Orient Bambino because I think he's a handsome chappy for the price. I then bought a Seiko 007 because I saw a picture of one on a thread here and fancied a cheap, knock-about diver with a splash of colour on the bezel. Do I universally like Seiko and everything they produce? No. But then I'd say that about every brand from Audemars to Zenith. If you like a song, that doesn't automatically mean you have to buy and like every album the band has made.
SGR
Last edited by StuartGR; 14th August 2014 at 13:11.
Nobody commands anyone to love all models within a brand.
I would say that I like maybe 10% of Seiko Mechanicals models and love 2%, like 30% of GS models and love 10%.
As for other brands.
I enjoy owning some Seiko watches. Most of their models are uninspiring for me, but that's valid in my case for most brands (I love my GMT Master II and would not even consider most of the current Rolex collection).
On a side-note, might be an idea to remember where branding comes from. Try to not fall in love with a brand/ completely despise it, but enjoy the one or the other product. Maybe you will find the right Seiko for you :)
PS: I just read the 2 prior messages, posted while I was writing mine. Funny synchronism :)
Last edited by Wooster; 14th August 2014 at 13:22.
I love many Seiko's. However.... I do think that they make hideous models too.
It depends on how you look at it.
Bang for buck they make some great pieces. Sturdy, reliable.
I get Seiko... as I take them at face value as what they are.
I wouldn't put one up against an Omega, JLC, Rolex. I am not daft.
I wouldn't put a Tuna up against a Sub. Or a Monster up against one.
I also don't get Grand Seiko. For the dosh, I'd rather have something different.
I KNOW that they are not as great at some brands.
But I do like Seiko, and I know where they stand in the watch world. In my head, anyway.
That's the thing, isn't it... It's all in our heads. As a 'proof' for that - pretty much the only watch that I'm obsessing over recently is a quartz Grand Seiko... I just have to buy one, some not so distant day I hope.
I used to have a neighbor who would wander into a group of people having a conversation at a party and lob in some topical hand grenade like "What makes a better pet - a cat or a dog?" or "Who works harder - men or women?" He'd stick around long enough to stoke the fire, until everyone was worked up into a rabid, foamy lather, and then he'd wander off with a little grin on his face. He just liked seeing people argue about things for which there was no right or wrong answer. I've since come to realize that he was a "party troll".
Fair comment mate.
One man's meat is another man's poison.
My 'flipped' list is testament to my own personal ridiculousness.
Greg. :)
Ouch!I used to have a neighbor who would wander into a group of people having a conversation at a party and lob in some topical hand grenade like "What makes a better pet - a cat or a dog?" or "Who works harder - men or women?" He'd stick around long enough to stoke the fire, until everyone was worked up into a rabid, foamy lather, and then he'd wander off with a little grin on his face. He just liked seeing people argue about things for which there was no right or wrong answer. I've since come to realize that he was a "party troll".
Despite the light troll-y nature to my original post it was a legitimate question.
I've enjoyed looking at the pictures people have posted, and am starting to see the light...on the odd model or two.
The question was brought about from threads on the front page like "I sold my Speedy and bought a Seiko". It wasn't just plucked out of the air. In addition to this, I've been looking at cheap "desk-divers", and wondered if I'd missed a model. I've seen statements like "everybody knows that the best diver for under £300 is the Seiko .... ", thus the question .
Think that our host's former signature summarizes these (common...) experiences very properly :D
Give it a shot with one of the usual inexpensive suspects (a Monster or an SKX007) and you might be in for a surprise. Or not. But plenty of people genuinely enjoy them, so there's a good place to start.
Sorry if my assessment seemed overly harsh. But based on the fact that Seiko has produced thousands of models through the years, many considered design classics by watch collectors, your comment "I look at Seikos through the ages and not one has jumped out at me" seemed patently absurd. It sounds, though, like you're starting to realize you haven't dug deep enough. Have fun.
Hit the nail firmly on the head for me Greg. I own a collection of Seiko but they are all low end and are very diverse from each other.If I had one that was similar to another one then it would be flipped. I have bought nothing over £200.00 yet and would not buy a Seiko that's over £800 ever as you are entering a price point where other watch makers do it better. I don't compare any of these watches to my other brands because my collection is not aimed at being other brands.
My desire to own Seiko has been something that has taken years to identify. And in the main I blame you lot
... do what exactly better? Calibres? Design? Finishing? Precision? ...Marketing? Or just 'do it better', as in any Italian does it better than any Englishman? Sorry, couldn't help it... :)
Last edited by Wooster; 14th August 2014 at 14:17.
Once you've taken a dip in the Seiko pond (admittedly the waters have got to look attractive to you in the first place) It's very difficult to see the point in climbing out to swim in another pool.
An almost text-book troll, well done ! From the link-bait title to the "but please, educate me in my ignorance" classic approach to hooking them in, it has been a pleasure.
Me ? I found my Orient Mako to have a cheap bracelet, dismal folded end-links, appalling bezel action, wobbly stem, silly date pusher, poor lume and the movement broke the first day I owned it. Was it worth it's humble price ? Yes I suppose it was, but the similarly priced Monster had none of these issues. My Rolex Day Date was beautifully finished but, at one fifth of the price, my Grand Seiko is simply better finished. The insecurities of the new money lot will always lead them to seek provenance, authenticity and heritage ( at a price, and preferably a reassuringly high one ) and thus won't be able to get beyond the Seiko label, but that's fine too. Old money by contrast, are confident enough to drive cheap cars.
I still own Rolexes, Orients, Seikos and lots of others ... no one's opinion negates my own, neither should it yours. But whatever the object it's a very blokey thing to argue about it, so good effort sir
Paul
If it's the odd model or two that does it for you: get them!
Life is too short...
People tend to think that the Seiko that was swapped for the Speedy is something like the SKX / Monster.
That isn't the case. It was a Marinemaster.
It has a mono-case (opened through the front), with the 8L35 movement, which is a GS-movement without decoration.
The dial and hands are very well made and the bezel doesn't have a cheap insert, but is etched/treated.
The WR is also quite a bit better than the SKX/Monster-rating and the bracelet is well finished, on par with the Swiss brands.
A similar new Submariner/Seamaster will be quite expensive.
I have a 105.003 Speedmaster. I would never swap it for this Seiko, but I have to agree that it is a good sports watch.
http://www.ablogtowatch.com/automati...ss-competitor/
http://www.urforum.dk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13705
Thanks for the link, highly amusing and discomfortingly accurate :D
That link was fantastic. It describes my approach to buying just about anything, from coffee to houses...An almost text-book troll, well done ! From the link-bait title to the "but please, educate me in my ignorance" classic approach to hooking them in, it has been a pleasure.
Me ? I found my Orient Mako to have a cheap bracelet, dismal folded end-links, appalling bezel action, wobbly stem, silly date pusher, poor lume and the movement broke the first day I owned it. Was it worth it's humble price ? Yes I suppose it was, but the similarly priced Monster had none of these issues. My Rolex Day Date was beautifully finished but, at one fifth of the price, my Grand Seiko is simply better finished. The insecurities of the new money lot will always lead them to seek provenance, authenticity and heritage ( at a price, and preferably a reassuringly high one ) and thus won't be able to get beyond the Seiko label, but that's fine too. Old money by contrast, are confident enough to drive cheap cars.
I still own Rolexes, Orients, Seikos and lots of others ... no one's opinion negates my own, neither should it yours. But whatever the object it's a very blokey thing to argue about it, so good effort sir
Paul
I'm interested to hear your views on the Mako because that was one of my potential buys. I bought a Blue Ray for a friend recently and was so impressed I didn't want to give it as a gift...
Also, you're surely not implying that I should write for Buzzfeed, are you...?
Haha I think you have this internet thing very well worked out. My views on the Mako are exactly as I wrote above. It's built appropriately for it's price. Other watches at a similar price ( have I ever mentioned the Monster on this forum ? ) are simply built better, with a better design. If you liked the Blue Ray though, go for it. They're all only minor diversions on the boredom highway of male life.
Paul
They can't give the stuff away.
http://breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/vi...p?f=26&t=54860
Agreed with the previous responses; brilliant link.
The hammer forum parody was spot-on, too.
Thanks for an excellent link!! To the OP: you don't have to like Seiko, there is no law against that. Not really sure why your own quotes are all comparisons to Rolex though. No need to compare those to "get" Seiko unless you see Seika as a Rolex alternative.
I still own Rolexes, Orients, Seikos and lots of others ... no one's opinion negates my own, neither should it yours. But whatever the object it's a very blokey thing to argue about it, so good effort sir
Paul
I love Seiko for their lessen known JDM models. Sure some models look like crap and they do cheap stuff but I simply look at the watches I like in their line. There is noone forcing me to like all their models.
Annoyingly, the more I look at the photos I posted above the more I like the look of the SKX007. I do think the Monster looks like an aberration, though...
I personally wouldn't give a second glance to at least 80% of Seiko models, I often ask myself......WHY?
But Seiko make some real gems, if you hunt them out.
Regarding the MM300, it's an absolute classic.
Thanks!
Some really nice chrono's there, if I didn't already owned a SD Ananta................
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Very interesting, is there a good article I can read up on Seiko about these classics, I've hear people say Iconic about the Monster before. But have thought Iconic and thought about the Swatch watch, probably one of the most iconic watches of all time. But equally the Rolex sub is iconic.
I need to be educated, any good source I can read up on. Ta
This is a reasonable place to start with Seiko.
Best not to read it with a lazy "yes but in Europe..." frame of mind. Read it in the context of what it is - another remarkable company with a long and interesting history. One that makes in-house everything timepieces ( they grow their own quartz crystals ... ) available at many different price and quality levels, with some classics along the way.
Paul
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