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Thread: Recent Purchase - Keep or Return??

  1. #1
    Master
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    Recent Purchase - Keep or Return??



    Advice needed on the following situation that I find myself in.

    Yesterday I received an Omega Seamaster 300 2255.80 that I purchased from ebay.
    The watch was sold as a one owner, original full set with outer & inner (red) box, spare links/pins, Chronometer Certificate, International Warranty Card (+ red wallet), Instruction / Dealer Booklets, Hang Tag & original sales receipt (scanned copy).
    Originally bought from new (by the seller) from an AD, Cottrills of Bramhall (now Prestons I think) in 2001 – the dates & dealer name on the warranty card match the receipt & the sellers name is on the original receipt.
    Serial number & model number all match on the Chronometer Certificate, International Warranty Card & Sales Receipt (scanned copy properties show as scanned in 2011).
    The watch is in really great condition for an 18 year old piece & appears to be exactly as described (i.e. owned from new & rarely used), has had an Omega service once in it’s lifetime – no service receipt, but service included in sale & referred to on sales receipt. I intend to get it serviced at an independent.

    The seller appears genuine, answered all my questions - but not too knowledgeable on watches.

    All sounds very good so far!

    On first inspection all looks genuine & in great condition (watch & btacelet) – some slight fade on the red second hand tip & a bit of lume fade, but all works really smoothly as it should.
    I checked the serial number on the lug & it does not match the documents, but it does match the hang tag!
    I have contacted the seller who claims to have never cross checked serial numbers & seems very surprised by my findings as he bought it new from an Omega AD.
    I am going to see if I can get the case back opened by a local watchmaker at lunchtime to inspect the movement & check the serial number inside – hopefully that will confirm the watch as genuine.
    If this is the case, all I can assume is that the AD mixed up the cards & filled out the receipt based on cards, rather than hang tag or watch.

    Here’s the question – should I return the watch regardless or have I actually still got a great watch at a good price?

    I paid £1200 for it & if all numbers matched I am thinking this watch is a bargain, considering it’s condition & documented history.
    But have I still got a great watch for a good price, if the cards & receipt have the wrong serial numbers?

    I am not overly concerned about the documentation, although would have been great to have – as long as the watch is genuine & in great condition.
    I am just left feeling a little disappointed that all is not as it was sold to me – I have let the seller know & he hasn’t offered me any sort of partial refund, but said to just send it back to him if I’m not completely satisfied as he had numerous other offers for the watch.

    What do you all think or what would you do in my situation?
    I know that I am the one who ultimately needs to be happy & I absolutely would be if I knew that I still had a great watch & had not paid over the odds for it!

    Opinions please………

  2. #2
    Craftsman
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    Personally I'd just send it back. I also wouldn't be getting someone to open the case back

  3. #3
    id be sending it back tbh

  4. #4
    Do you want us to tell you if you are happy with your purchase or not?

  5. #5
    Journeyman
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    If the mismatch of serials is not a big problem, wait for the outcome of the inspection. Although you will need to explain the mismatch if you ever decide to move it on.

    Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Tough one, if you bought second hand from an individual and not a retailer they're not obliged to refund you.

    If you're happy with the watch and the price you paid, keep it.

  7. #7
    Send it back and keep looking...

  8. #8
    Craftsman
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    Send it back.

  9. #9
    If you paid the price you paid because you thought it was complete, and wouldn't have paid this much for how it's actually arrived, then I would send it back.

  10. #10
    Master watch-nut's Avatar
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    Another one in the send it back camp

    I have heard of AD’s mixing up warranty cards in the past so it does happen but it’s just hassle

    Of course if you were keeping it forever and don’t intend to move it one in the future and you like the watch, if you could give yourself some comfort the watch is genuine then don’t see the harm.

    Seems like a load of hassle though

  11. #11
    Grand Master
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    Think you have paid about £400-£500 too much
    RIAC

  12. #12
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    If you paid the price you paid because you thought it was complete, and wouldn't have paid this much for how it's actually arrived, then I would send it back.
    I thought it was a good deal as a full set - maybe even a bit of a steal.
    Just not sure if it still represents good value?

    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Do you want us to tell you if you are happy with your purchase or not?
    Happy enough if the watch is genuine - I guess I just need to know if £1200 is a good price for a nice watch without papers?

  13. #13
    Master
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    Overwhelming opinion to send back.

    What should I be looking to pay for such a watch - either watch only or full set?
    I appreciate that (most) things are only worth what someone is willing to pay - but any opinions on market value would be appreciated.

  14. #14
    Grand Master
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    OK, I’ll give my opinion, I’ve worked on plenty of SMPs so I tend to see things differently.

    If I was buying one of these I wouldn’t even be interested in the box and papers, I’d be more concerned about the condition of the watch. Are all the bracelet links present? Is the bracelet in serviceable condition without excessive wear? Are there any deep marks/ scratches on the case? Likewise the bezel, there’s plenty of signs if wear but if they’re light enough the bezel can be refinished to look almost new. Is the dial clean? Are the hands good too? Finally, check the crown screws and unscrews nicely, pendant tubes on some of these are harder to change than others.

    Finally, is it running OK?

    These are the points a buyer should look at, the original papers are so far down the list to be almost (but not quite) insignificant. However, given the discrepancy I’d have a look to see whether the serial number under one lug matches the number on the movement.

    I disagree with Kerry’s comment about paying too much, that’s a ‘trade’ valuation but for a watch on open sale I’d say the price isn’t unreasonable.

    Buyer has to ask himself, ‘where do I find a better one at reasonable money’? From what I can see the case and bezel look OK, if the rest of the watch measures up to the criteria I’ve outlined I’d keep it. You have to careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, it’s all well and good for folks to say ‘send it back’ but they’re not the ones trying to acquire an example of this watch! In my opinion the ‘full set’ thing offers very little extra value to a watch like this, some folks will disagree. It depends how you as the OP see it.

    PM me if you want further advice.

  15. #15
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Unlike most of the above, I say provisionally keep, depending on the outcome of the internal examination.

    If the examination shows it to be good then I don't think the papers mismatch matters at all in a watch of this age.


    ** edit **
    Provisionally keep as long as it is running ok as per Paul's comments above.


    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Buyer has to ask himself, ‘where do I find a better one at reasonable money’? From what I can see the case and bezel look OK, if the rest of the watch measures up to the criteria I’ve outlined I’d keep it. You have to careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, it’s all well and good for folks to say ‘send it back’ but they’re not the ones trying to acquire an example of this watch! In my opinion the ‘full set’ thing offers very little extra value to a watch like this, some folks will disagree. It depends how you as the OP see it.
    I agree with this.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 1st October 2019 at 13:24.

  16. #16
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    Think you have paid about £400-£500 too much
    Blimey, where would you we get one at £700-£800? A serious question. For those of us who don't run a watch resale business, buying one of these in reasonable condition for less than £1000-£1200 seems very unlikely to me.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 1st October 2019 at 13:23.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Unlike most of the above, I say provisionally keep, depending on the outcome of the internal examination.

    If the examination shows it to be good then I don't think the papers mismatch matters at all in a watch of this age.


    ** edit **
    Provisionally keep as long as it is running ok as per Paul's comments above.
    Exactly this. At the moment, you seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  18. #18
    This is eBay. Don't just send it back. You need to follow the eBay process and raise as issue, they will review it and let you know what to do.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENES View Post


    Advice needed on the following situation that I find myself in.

    Yesterday I received an Omega Seamaster 300 2255.80 that I purchased from ebay.
    The watch was sold as a one owner, original full set with outer & inner (red) box, spare links/pins, Chronometer Certificate, International Warranty Card (+ red wallet), Instruction / Dealer Booklets, Hang Tag & original sales receipt (scanned copy).
    Originally bought from new (by the seller) from an AD, Cottrills of Bramhall (now Prestons I think) in 2001 – the dates & dealer name on the warranty card match the receipt & the sellers name is on the original receipt.
    Serial number & model number all match on the Chronometer Certificate, International Warranty Card & Sales Receipt (scanned copy properties show as scanned in 2011).
    The watch is in really great condition for an 18 year old piece & appears to be exactly as described (i.e. owned from new & rarely used), has had an Omega service once in it’s lifetime – no service receipt, but service included in sale & referred to on sales receipt. I intend to get it serviced at an independent.

    The seller appears genuine, answered all my questions - but not too knowledgeable on watches.

    All sounds very good so far!

    On first inspection all looks genuine & in great condition (watch & btacelet) – some slight fade on the red second hand tip & a bit of lume fade, but all works really smoothly as it should.
    I checked the serial number on the lug & it does not match the documents, but it does match the hang tag!
    I have contacted the seller who claims to have never cross checked serial numbers & seems very surprised by my findings as he bought it new from an Omega AD.
    I am going to see if I can get the case back opened by a local watchmaker at lunchtime to inspect the movement & check the serial number inside – hopefully that will confirm the watch as genuine.
    If this is the case, all I can assume is that the AD mixed up the cards & filled out the receipt based on cards, rather than hang tag or watch.

    Here’s the question – should I return the watch regardless or have I actually still got a great watch at a good price?

    I paid £1200 for it & if all numbers matched I am thinking this watch is a bargain, considering it’s condition & documented history.
    But have I still got a great watch for a good price, if the cards & receipt have the wrong serial numbers?

    I am not overly concerned about the documentation, although would have been great to have – as long as the watch is genuine & in great condition.
    I am just left feeling a little disappointed that all is not as it was sold to me – I have let the seller know & he hasn’t offered me any sort of partial refund, but said to just send it back to him if I’m not completely satisfied as he had numerous other offers for the watch.

    What do you all think or what would you do in my situation?
    I know that I am the one who ultimately needs to be happy & I absolutely would be if I knew that I still had a great watch & had not paid over the odds for it!

    Opinions please………
    I think if you’re not overly concerned with the documentation, then keep the watch. As to whether you got it at a good price, it really is down to how much value you place on it.

    Have you tried contacting Omega for replacement documents?

  20. #20
    This is eBay. Don't just send it back. You need to follow the eBay process and raise as issue, they will review it and let you know what to do.

  21. #21
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    The more I look at it, the more I'd keep it -- as long as the internal exam is ok and as long as it's running ok.

    I don't think £1200 is too much at today's prices. Looking at eBay, it certainly doesn't seem to be overrun with cheaper ones.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 1st October 2019 at 14:09.

  22. #22
    I can’t comment on price ,but I think this sort of thing must happen a lot where boxes and things get mixed up,it happen to a mate of mine who wasn’t too bothered about the box .
    If the watch is decent and your happy with the condition I’d keep it .


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  23. #23
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    This exactly why I always buy new from authorised ADs!

    Sent from my SM-G950F using TZ-UK mobile app
    Own a TARDIS do you?

    It also appears that the issue originated with the original purchase........from an authorised AD!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by njr911 View Post
    This is eBay. Don't just send it back. You need to follow the eBay process and raise as issue, they will review it and let you know what to do.
    And how does that help him? Forget all the 'procedures' stuff for a moment, evaluate the watch as it stands and for what he's paid, then decide the best way forward. In the grand scheme of things it's a minor issue and he risks losing the watch on a point of principle if he follows poor advice.

    It's all about the watch and its condition in my opinion and I`ve put forward an informed view. Strongly advise the OP to read the comments, step back, decide what makes sense, and base a decision on those comments.

    Provided it meets my checklist I know what I`d be doing.
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 1st October 2019 at 14:15.

  25. #25
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    This exactly why I always buy new from authorised ADs!
    Quite apart from the Tardis requirement noted above, what's the AD selling price for today's nearest equivalent? A tad over £4000 I think?

    So let's see... a watch that is no longer obtainable new from ADs for £1200 or over £4000 for a different (albeit new) watch... :-)

  26. #26
    Journeyman
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    My opinion is keep and enjoy your watch if your problem is only mismatched card
    Many people buy second hand watches without boz and papers

  27. #27
    Master
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    In my personal opinion - the question is, is it a real, genuine Omega? in decent condition (given that its pretty old now)?
    In other words, is it a fraud or a minor mix up?

    If its genuine, keep it! I'd never even think to check serial numbers. What difference does it make??? We're supposed to be interested in the watches, not bits of documentation!

    The trouble is, the fact that you asked the question indicates that it bothers you....but I guess it goes to back to whether its a fraud or not. If its not a fraud then there is no real reason for anyone to take it back. In what serious way does it not match the description? ie Serious to a normal human not a WIS!!!!

  28. #28
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Are all the bracelet links present? Is the bracelet in serviceable condition without excessive wear? Are there any deep marks/ scratches on the case? Likewise the bezel, there’s plenty of signs if wear but if they’re light enough the bezel can be refinished to look almost new. Is the dial clean? Are the hands good too? Finally, check the crown screws and unscrews nicely, pendant tubes on some of these are harder to change than others.

    Finally, is it running OK?
    Thanks for the input.

    Ticks all the boxes on that list with ease.
    It arrived in a condition that is way better than I expected - overall condition looks almost mint to the naked eye, obviously under scrutiny of magnification you can see signs of use.
    The picture makes the polished bezel look a bit scratched, but only as it is zoomed in & taken under a halogen lamp - in reality it looks very good with only light swirls.

    The watch is running slow - difficult to say by how much, as I only opened the box yesterday evening & can't wear the watch with the bracelet being too big.

  29. #29
    Grand Master
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    Suggest you fully wind it then check how it's running, around 45-50 twists of the crown should do it. Leave it dial-up and see how it compares, if it's in a low state of wind it won't keep good time but it should if it's >60% wound.

  30. #30
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    From the single photo I would have no reason to doubt that this watch is genuine. It's certainly not a fake case/bezel/dial/hands. Unless any of the bits we can't see are dodgy (caseback/bracelet), or the movement was swapped out for a 2892, which would be unusual in itself, I think it's totally legit. IMO, the suggestion that £1200 was about £400-£500 too high, is a bit of a wind-up.
    The OP says that the "Serial number & model number all match on the Chronometer Certificate, International Warranty Card & Sales Receipt". Is the model number correct for this watch? I ask because this was one of the less common variants of the Seamaster and therefore less likely that any outlet would have more than one at any one time. Just wondering if the cards were mixed up with a 2254.50 or 2531.80, instead of 2255.80?
    Last edited by TomGW; 1st October 2019 at 15:35.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomGW View Post
    From the single photo I would have no reason to doubt that this watch is genuine. It's certainly not a fake case/bezel/dial/hands. Unless any of the bits we can't see are dodgy (caseback/bracelet), or the movement was swapped out for a 2892, which would be unusual in itself, I think it's totally legit. IMO, the suggestion that £1200 was about £400-£500 too high, is a bit of a wind-up.
    The OP says that the "Serial number & model number all match on the Chronometer Certificate, International Warranty Card & Sales Receipt". Is the model number correct for this watch? I ask because this was one of the less common variants of the Seamaster and therefore less likely that any outlet would have more than one at any one time. Just wondering if the cards were mixed up with a 2254.50 or 2531.80, instead of 2255.80?
    Thanks - the 2255.80.00 model number is consistant accross all of the documents.




  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Suggest you fully wind it then check how it's running, around 45-50 twists of the crown should do it. Leave it dial-up and see how it compares, if it's in a low state of wind it won't keep good time but it should if it's >60% wound.
    I did wind it - but probably only 25 times.

    I'll wind it properly & check it overnight - thanks.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ENES View Post
    Thanks - the 2255.80.00 model number is consistant accross all of the documents.



    It looks like a simple mix up of the cards by the AD, eighteen years ago. While it would be more preferable to have everything 100%, I wouldn't be too concerned, assuming that the movement and case nos. match. It's highly unlikely that you will ever meet up with the owner of the other watch, so you could swap the cards, but in your position I would at least make the AD aware of the situation, on the off chance that the owner of the other watch is still in contact with them.
    In a similar vein, I bought a car with 3 previous owners (Audi A6) and only one key. The original owner was a large fleet owner so I rang the original garage that had serviced the car during its first year. They told me who the driver was, I rang him at work and he rummaged about through his desk drawer, found the (unused) key and popped it in the post. It was a long shot that paid off.

  34. #34
    Master
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    Also, slow running initially is usual if the watch has not run recently or if it's cold. Wear it and check it again in 12 hours then 24 hours ish. It could well speed up and settle. It may take several days too settle. If it's still slow, it may be corrected by regulating. Itf however it's erratic it needs a service.

  35. #35
    If it’s a keeper, I wouldn’t worry about it, I’ve just bought a watch with a small (undisclosed at the time of sale) issue, it didn’t bother me that much, but I knew that in the future I couldn’t sell it without mentioning it, and pricing it accordingly, that made my bargain seem a lot less bargainous, so back it went.

  36. #36
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    If the watch is genuine and running well, who cares about the papers? I wouldn't.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  37. #37
    Master sean's Avatar
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    Hope it's all legit for the OP, because I think that's a decent price paid. I had the quartz version and three years ago they were running at about £900 upwards. For an auto in good nick, the OP can be happy to have paid only £1200.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by LondonNeil View Post
    Also, slow running initially is usual if the watch has not run recently or if it's cold. Wear it and check it again in 12 hours then 24 hours ish. It could well speed up and settle. It may take several days too settle. If it's still slow, it may be corrected by regulating. Itf however it's erratic it needs a service.
    Temperature will have negligible effect. It won`t take several days to settle unless it's freshly serviced, and even then the changes will be very small. The 'not run recently' thing is a bit of a myth, I have watches that haven't run in 12 months but I`ll guarantee they'll still run OK.

    If it's running slow after being wound for 50 twists of the crown it's running slow, I wouldn't advocate regulating unless the amplitude had been checked.

    I often see watches that need service, with low amplitude, yet the rate looks reasonably OK. That's because it's been regulated to compensate, this happens.
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 1st October 2019 at 20:13.

  39. #39
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    If you are intending on selling the watch, then a full set may add something to the price - assuming it's important to the prospective purchaser.

    If you intend to keep the watch, when the paper work matters very little. Also if you do keep it , then at some point you will get it serviced and in my book service paper is as good (if not better) than the original paper. Simply because it is much more up to date, that the watch has been serviced and is operating within limits and that everything is original (nothing has been switched with aftermarket parts.).

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  40. #40
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Did you buy a watch or some documents with a free gift?

    Too much BS about papers and the like, IMO.

    If it's a genuine, good condition watch and the price is fair, how is a piece of paper going to improve your enjoyment (or anyone else's in the future) of it?

    If in doubt, get it checked out for fraudulence, but if it's a good 'un, just enjoy it! Most normal people just throw the box and paperwork away!

    M

  41. #41
    Master
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    Looks good value to me, though your concerns re nos. were worthy of pursuit.

    If everything checks out re movement and it's running well, I'd say it's a v good buy. If it's needing a service then less so, but still not a rip-off.

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  42. #42
    Master ozzyb123's Avatar
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    If after inspection the numbers on the case match up and everything’s as it should be, keep the watch.

    I would also advise pressing the seller for a partial refund through eBay.

    Yes the watch is decent value at the price you paid. But it is not the full set described to you.

    If genuine and you get £100 back, be very pleased with yourself!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  43. #43
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    Hope it's all legit for the OP, because I think that's a decent price paid. I had the quartz version and three years ago they were running at about £900 upwards. For an auto in good nick, the OP can be happy to have paid only £1200.
    Agreed.

  44. #44
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    at some point you will get it serviced and in my book service paper is as good (if not better) than the original paper. Simply because it is much more up to date, that the watch has been serviced and is operating within limits and that everything is original (nothing has been switched with aftermarket parts.).
    Yup, I think this is true. Recent-ish service papers are more important and relevant than original papers for an older watch.

  45. #45
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    If the watch turns out to be legitimate I'd be keeping it with maybe asking the seller for some partial refund to make up for the inconsistency of the advert.

    I'd then put that towards a service with Omega then you've got an excellent watch for many years to come.

    The "paid £400-£500 too much" comment is utter nonsense surely.

  46. #46
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    After the exchange of a couple of PMs this watch will be coming my way for evaluation and sorting out. I’m 99.9% convinced it’s a sound buy.

    Haven’t had a cal 1120 SMP on the bench for around 12 months, then two 2254.50s turned up recently, and now this one.
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 2nd October 2019 at 13:28.

  47. #47
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    After the exchange of a couple of PMs this watch will be coming my way for evaluation and sorting out. I’m 99.9% convinced it’s a sound buy.
    Excellent. :-)

  48. #48
    Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    SE UK
    Posts
    1,014
    Thanks to those who provided useful comments & opinions on the watch.

    Big thanks also to walkerwek1958 for taking a look at the watch so quickly for me.

    Serial numbers on the case / movement are confirmed as matching & all looks good with the watch + the seller has sent me 8% refund on the sale.

    Serial numbers not matching between the watch & docs is still a bit of a mystery, but looks likely to be the AD mixing up the cards?

    The Seamaster is a keeper & now going to have a service before I get it on my wrist.

  49. #49
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by ENES View Post
    Thanks to those who provided useful comments & opinions on the watch.

    Big thanks also to walkerwek1958 for taking a look at the watch so quickly for me.

    Serial numbers on the case / movement are confirmed as matching & all looks good with the watch + the seller has sent me 8% refund on the sale.

    Serial numbers not matching between the watch & docs is still a bit of a mystery, but looks likely to be the AD mixing up the cards?

    The Seamaster is a keeper & now going to have a service before I get it on my wrist.
    I think that's a decent result. Enjoy the watch for a long time to come.

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by ENES View Post
    Serial numbers not matching between the watch & docs is still a bit of a mystery, but looks likely to be the AD mixing up the cards?
    most likely AD mixed warranty cards at a sale.

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