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Thread: Manual Wind Query

  1. #51
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    I loved the manual winding of my Moonwatch when I had it. Can't see any downside apart from the fact that an auto is likely to be more accurate as mainspring tension is maintained. Didn't bother me at all.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekbow View Post
    I'm unsure as to whether you're cracking a lighthearted joke or calling me out over my enthusiasm for this particular watch.
    Well I merely wondered why having gone into space nearly 50 years ago would be such a stoutly defended functional benchmark!
    ...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!

  3. #53
    Aaaahh, so you were actually being a cantankerous condescending tool...

    I'm new to this forum, not to forums in general, I'm more than happy with the fact that, due to your post count and tenure, you "win at internet watches", but don't talk down to me like I'm some precocious child.

    A heritage is a strong thing, and 50 years in use with an agency that goes into space is a powerful testament to a watches quality, ruggedness and suitability for purchase in the face of a salesman stating "manual winding is a negative"

    You don't need to be a knob.

    EDIT: I realise comments of this nature may get me warned or chucked out, I'll accept that if it happens, but I'm not having that kind of attitude...

    Now.. would you like to start over?

    Hi, I'm Simon, very nice to meet you, I look forward to speaking with you further on this forum
    Last edited by tekbow; 7th January 2015 at 13:51.

  4. #54
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    ^ bit harsh

    I have a potentially silly question, how water resistant are they (if at all) ?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by omarcomarco View Post
    I have a potentially silly question, how water resistant are they (if at all) ?
    50metres I believe.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by omarcomarco View Post
    ^ bit harsh

    I have a potentially silly question, how water resistant are they (if at all) ?
    Possibly, but quite often being blunt is a good counter to passive aggressive.

    Yep, 50 metres, so I take that to mean don't shower with them

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generous John View Post
    50metres I believe.
    Mine's 10 years old and I certainly wouldn't choose to get it wet...

    Simon

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by tekbow View Post
    Aaaahh, so you were actually being a cantankerous condescending tool...
    I think he was having a gentle poke at you (yes, that counts as gentle around here) about your enthusiasm for the Speedy's spaceflight heritage. We all love a Speedy, but the space angle is sometimes made a bit too much of (and I say that as a huge space geek myself). Buzz Aldrin has said that his Speedmaster was basically an optional accessory: "Few things are less necessary when walking around on the Moon than knowing what time it is in Houston, Texas."

    Yes, Jack Swigert used his to time a couple of rocket burns, but since they only lasted a few minutes, any working watch would have served that purpose. It wouldn't even have to be a chronograph. The Speedmaster isn't the only choice of astronauts, by any means; Rolex watches also seem to be popular, probably because Apollo astronauts were drawn from the ranks of military and test pilots. There is some basis for me getting excited about my GMT because it has 'spaceflight heritage'.

    Nonetheless, the Speedmaster is the Moonwatch, and that has a lot to do with its popularity. Buying one if you're not an astronaut is no more or less silly than people buying diver's watches when they never go diving.

    Quote Originally Posted by tekbow View Post
    You don't need to be a knob.

    EDIT: I realise comments of this nature may get me warned or chucked out, I'll accept that if it happens, but I'm not having that kind of attitude...
    I think you need to dial back your reactions a bit; sarcastic banter is, in fact, the default mode of communication here. Just reply in kind. When someone's really cross with you, you'll know.

  9. #59
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    Tekbow, the advice above is well-put imo - and I've been around this forum for over10 years now...

    Simon

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by bitfield View Post
    I think he was having a gentle poke at you (yes, that counts as gentle around here) about your enthusiasm for the Speedy's spaceflight heritage. We all love a Speedy, but the space angle is sometimes made a bit too much of (and I say that as a huge space geek myself). Buzz Aldrin has said that his Speedmaster was basically an optional accessory: "Few things are less necessary when walking around on the Moon than knowing what time it is in Houston, Texas."

    Yes, Jack Swigert used his to time a couple of rocket burns, but since they only lasted a few minutes, any working watch would have served that purpose. It wouldn't even have to be a chronograph. The Speedmaster isn't the only choice of astronauts, by any means; Rolex watches also seem to be popular, probably because Apollo astronauts were drawn from the ranks of military and test pilots. There is some basis for me getting excited about my GMT because it has 'spaceflight heritage'.

    Nonetheless, the Speedmaster is the Moonwatch, and that has a lot to do with its popularity. Buying one if you're not an astronaut is no more or less silly than people buying diver's watches when they never go diving.



    I think you need to dial back your reactions a bit; sarcastic banter is, in fact, the default mode of communication here. Just reply in kind. When someone's really cross with you, you'll know.
    I think.. the point that's being missed here is not my devotion to omega marketing rhetoric, what I was driving at was in order to achieve flight qualification, the watches selected were rigorously tested. The speedy came out on top. And presumably it has to be requalified once in a while, so presumably, it still passes those tests..

    Therefore, my spiel on it being good enough for nasa, uses that as its basis, not the romanticism of space travel. Just like I have a Rolex sub because I know that quite a few divers in the north sea choose to wear em as well as rig crew in various parts of the world. They buy them because they're tough.

    And I've been a member of many forums were gently poking was the norm. That didn't come across as a gentle poke, that came across as "haze the noob because of my mighty post count"... I work in the oil industry, you don't get by on rigs without having a sense of humour and being able to take an elbow.. that was condescending. If it was meant in any other way it was poorly worded.

    However, if we're prepared to say ok that was badly worded but wasn't meant in the way it came across, then I'm prepared to say sorry for the harsh response and leave it at that.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekbow View Post
    Aaaahh, so you were actually being a cantankerous condescending tool...
    New round here, are you, son?
    ...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!

  12. #62
    You can read my post count without your specs grandad?

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekbow View Post
    You can read my post count without your specs grandad?
    Actually I didn't even need to do that - your attitude speaks (or rather shouts) rather more loudly
    ...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by andrew View Post
    Actually I didn't even need to do that - your attitude speaks (or rather shouts) rather more loudly
    Oh sorry, I thought this was gentle poking?

    Right so we going to keep going this way or we going to make peace?

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekbow View Post
    Right so we going to keep going this way or we going to make peace?
    Peace? With you?

    Aaaahh, so you were actually being a cantankerous condescending tool

    don't talk down to me like I'm some precocious child.

    You don't need to be a knob.

    EDIT: I realise comments of this nature may get me warned or chucked out, I'll accept that if it happens, but I'm not having that kind of attitude...

    Now.. would you like to start over?
    ...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by andrew View Post
    Peace? With you?
    Right well.. can't say I didn't try three times. Would prefer you didn't go quote mining though.

    Up to you, hope we dont cross paths anytime soon, for my part I will studiously avoid you. Hope you'll extend me the same courtesy
    Last edited by tekbow; 7th January 2015 at 16:06.

  17. #67
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    Can`t believe a seemingly innocuous thread like this has degenerated into bickering.

    As for the astronaut link with the Speedy, I think it's fair to say that Omega have milked it big-style over the years. That's not to say I don`t admire the Speedy Moonwatch, I`m a big fan and I believe it's the purest incarnation of the Speedy (and therefore the one to own), but I certainly wouldn`t let the NASA thing influence my thinking on whether or not to buy one.

    I don`t usually get involved in spats, but my advice to Tekbow is simple: Wind your neck in buddy, and get a sense of humour or you won`t enjoy this place. You attracted a bit of sarcasm and you over-reacted grossly. Generally, we try and avoid calling each other cantankerous tools etc on here even when it's justified.

    Paul

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekbow View Post
    I work in the oil industry, you don't get by on rigs without having a sense of humour and being able to take an elbow.. that was condescending. If it was meant in any other way it was poorly worded.
    Of course you can get by on oil rigs without having a sense of humour; you'll just be thoroughly disliked.

  19. #69
    Look, I get it, he's been around here for ages, you've probably known him a while, from being around, I'm the newb kicking up a stink.

    But it wasn't a good natured bit of sarcasm. It wasnt jolly jab. it was someone being ignorant. Take a look at my other posts, I've been polite and good natured. and also not the first on this thread to comment on the nasa thing, which I explained wasn't about the romanticism of the space age. It was about cold hard testing. Snoopy award from the astronauts themselves? Omega over play it yes, but but it's history is it's history.

    So no, I don't do letting passive aggressive bullies snipe.

    I offered to apologise, I offered to draw a line under it, but somehow I need to wind my neck in for making a point?

    Alright then, all quiet on the western front from here on in.

    DB9 yes and their existence at work is a miserable one. Mine fortunately is not
    Last edited by tekbow; 8th January 2015 at 10:32.

  20. #70
    So anyway, I thought I remembered reading a good piece about the actual NASA testing process recently. Here it is: Qualifying a watch to fly to the Moon

    Executive summary:

    • Timekeeping test
    • Hot test (200ºF)
    • Cold test (0ºF)
    • Vacuum test
    • High-pressure test
    • Humidity test (95%)
    • 100% oxygen atmosphere test
    • G-load tests (40G)
    • Vibration tests (2000Hz)
    • Acoustic test (130dB)


    Only the Speedy survived all the tests. The other watches included a Wittnauer chronograph, a Valjoux 72-based Rolex Cosmograph, and a Breitling Navitimer Cosmonaute (source: Omega Speedmaster NASA Testing Process) and none of them made it. The Breitling failed on timekeeping, the Rolex failed on humidity (the second hand warped), and the Wittnauer's crystal blew out in the pressure tests.

    So that is actually quite impressive. I don't know if anyone has re-run those tests recently, on modern watches - it would be a fun experiment.

  21. #71
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    bitfield
    Thanks for that, that's going to be a very interesting read, it's about the only Omega that I really want to own sometime in the future.

  22. #72
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    Well this thread got a little out of hand, to get it back on track a little I am thankful to those that have responded to me. Your opinions have helped a lot.

    The NASA thing has come up and I must admit the heritage does add a little bit of glamour to the watch for me. It's not the only reason I want one of course, but a nice little cherry on top of an already great looking watch!

    If I do get one I'll be sure to put up some pics!

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gomers View Post
    The manual winding nature of the Speedmaster is the raison d'etre for it's existence. It was NASA flight qualified in this format in the mid 60's due to auto winding chronos not being available for another 4 to 5 years.
    That's interesting - I had always assumed that manual winders were required in space because the lack of gravity makes autowinders ineffective!

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Wolff View Post
    That's interesting - I had always assumed that manual winders were required in space because the lack of gravity makes autowinders ineffective!
    I read something like that, but of course it would not be true, as the inertia of the rotor winding mechanism is governed by its mass (constant at non-relativistic speeds) rather than the weight (mass * 'gravity')

    -- Tim

  25. #75
    Apparently one of the accounts goes that nasa weren't sure whether an automatic would work when they first came outt, so they stuck with the speedy. Am sure that people who work out trips to the moon could figure out the physics of a rotor, perhaps a pinch of salt required there.

    Is the speedy still the only mechanical on the qualified list? I think there's a Seiko and couple of gshocks too these days

  26. #76
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    Auto-winding's no advantage in space because you don`t exactly move far when you're in a space capsule (allegedly). and you certainly don`t move quickly.

    Paul

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekbow View Post
    Right well.. can't say I didn't try three times. Would prefer you didn't go quote mining though.
    Think about what you say before spouting off aggressively, then?
    Up to you, hope we dont cross paths anytime soon, for my part I will studiously avoid you. Hope you'll extend me the same courtesy
    Sure thing.
    ...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!

  28. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by andrew View Post
    Think about what you say before spouting off aggressively, then?

    Sure thing.
    Nope, no apology then no conditions, far as I'm concerned you were out of order and got a deserved mouthful. I prefer that we both apologised and left it at that as I've repeartedly suggested, but you don't want to, so let's just walk away.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Auto-winding's no advantage in space because you don`t exactly move far when you're in a space capsule (allegedly). and you certainly don`t move quickly.
    I can hear the rotor in my little Longines spinning for some seconds after as little movement as moving my hand up a banister while climbing stairs, or even the wrist-flick done when needing to know the time in a hurry. If anything I think it would spin for longer in space as there would be no gravity pulling it down!

  30. #80
    +1 just had my colleagues tag in my hand and could gear the rotor whirring with very little movement

  31. #81
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    I love manual winds, it feels more personal

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekbow View Post
    Nope, no apology then no conditions, far as I'm concerned you were out of order and got a deserved mouthful. I prefer that we both apologised and left it at that as I've repeartedly suggested, but you don't want to, so let's just walk away.
    I guess you're the one who's put himself in charge, then?

    It's a good thing I don't work for a satirical magazine that pokes fun at the fundamentalist leanings of branded Veblen-good fanatics - I wouldn't want some humourless, arrogant stevedore waving an AK around looking for retribution whilst suggestively fingering his Speedo! Sorry, Speedy!
    ...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew View Post
    I guess you're the one who's put himself in charge, then?

    It's a good thing I don't work for a satirical magazine that pokes fun at the fundamentalist leanings of branded Veblen-good fanatics - I wouldn't want some humourless, arrogant stevedore waving an AK around looking for retribution whilst suggestively fingering his Speedo! Sorry, Speedy!
    You couldn't leave it could you? You just have to have the last word. As for equating his calling you out to the murders in Paris, shame on you.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Wolff View Post
    That's interesting - I had always assumed that manual winders were required in space because the lack of gravity makes autowinders ineffective!
    As I understand it, NASA required a chronograph, first tests were carried out in 1965 at which time only manual chronos existed, first auto chrono arrived in '69 from Breitling/Heuer alliance or Zenith, there is debate on this matter too. I'm sure there were at least 2 subsequent tests carried out in later years, again the Speedmaster came out on top and included flight qualification in '78 for the first Shuttle missions.

    Of course the Speedy/NASA thing has been done to death but if you were a company out to shift units, why wouldn't you capatilise on the link, it wouldn't make much commercial sense not to name drop one of the top 5 events of 20th century history.

    The Speedy is a legend, end of, and will get an appreciative nod from the majority of watch folk out there because it's interesting, still is to this day and for an asking price that isn't outrageous. Just don't forget to wind it......and er, don't go swimming with it.

  35. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by andrew View Post
    I guess you're the one who's put himself in charge, then?

    It's a good thing I don't work for a satirical magazine that pokes fun at the fundamentalist leanings of branded Veblen-good fanatics - I wouldn't want some humourless, arrogant stevedore waving an AK around looking for retribution whilst suggestively fingering his Speedo! Sorry, Speedy!
    Hah, suggest reconciliation and your response is along the lines of "I'm not doing what you say"?

    As for that second comment, I will treat it as the contemptuous, pretentious, insensitive, offensive Shite it is.. families lost loved ones in Paris 24 hours ago, and you're going to use that as route for having a meaningless pop at me? You're a disgrace.

    Listen, you're not half as witty or smart as you think you are, and if the messages of congratulation building up in my inbox from members newb through to grandmaster are anything to go by, I'm not alone in my assessment.

    Why don't you just stop instead of going for that last resounding sting that will never get the reaction you've played out in your mind?
    Last edited by tekbow; 8th January 2015 at 11:46.

  36. #86
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    This needs to end now, FFS !

  37. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Gomers View Post

    The Speedy is a legend, end of, and will get an appreciative nod from the majority of watch folk out there because it's interesting, still is to this day and for an asking price that isn't outrageous. Just don't forget to wind it......and er, don't go swimming with it.
    :lol:

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew View Post
    I guess you're the one who's put himself in charge, then?

    It's a good thing I don't work for a satirical magazine that pokes fun at the fundamentalist leanings of branded Veblen-good fanatics - I wouldn't want some humourless, arrogant stevedore waving an AK around looking for retribution whilst suggestively fingering his Speedo! Sorry, Speedy!
    How low will some people stoop to have the last word, disgusting

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gomers View Post
    As I understand it, NASA required a chronograph, first tests were carried out in 1965 at which time only manual chronos existed, first auto chrono arrived in '69 from Breitling/Heuer alliance or Zenith, there is debate on this matter too. I'm sure there were at least 2 subsequent tests carried out in later years, again the Speedmaster came out on top and included flight qualification in '78 for the first Shuttle missions.

    Of course the Speedy/NASA thing has been done to death but if you were a company out to shift units, why wouldn't you capatilise on the link, it wouldn't make much commercial sense not to name drop one of the top 5 events of 20th century history.

    The Speedy is a legend, end of, and will get an appreciative nod from the majority of watch folk out there because it's interesting, still is to this day and for an asking price that isn't outrageous. Just don't forget to wind it......and er, don't go swimming with it.
    Forgot about that last bit- my hands are in and out of water all day so maybe not a daily wearer then. Doesn't stop me wanting one desperately. Saw a new Speedy in a jewellers today and had to be physically removed....

  40. #90
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Wolff View Post
    Forgot about that last bit- my hands are in and out of water all day so maybe not a daily wearer then. Doesn't stop me wanting one desperately. Saw a new Speedy in a jewellers today and had to be physically removed....
    Well, there's someone on here who posted a photo of him swimming in his.

    WR is 50M, so you SHOULD be able to swim in it, but it'll need servicing regularly.

    M.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekbow View Post
    Listen, you're not half as witty or smart as you think you are, and if the messages of congratulation building up in my inbox from members newb through to grandmaster are anything to go by, I'm not alone in my assessment.
    Ah that old chestnut. Yeah he winds winds a few people up in the Bear Pit, they're no doubt the 'pillars of the forum' you've received messages from.

    Enjoy your time on tz-uk, but if you're looking to avoid people, add me to your list. You seem like a dick.

  42. #92
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    Two points emerging from this thread........I won`t add further comment on the first because I think it's obvious to most of us.

    On the second point, the old 'WR to 50metres' issue has come up, with people making the inference that this is minimal WR and therefore the watch is no good near water. That's rubbish. 50metres is a lot of water-resistance in the real world, and the watch would stand up to normal swimming should the wearer choose to do this. Personally I wouldn`t because I don`t like to get watches knocked about, and I don`t see the point in wearing a watch whilst I swim.

    People lose sight of reality with the WR issue. The only weak spot is the crown seal which could potentially wear with use. However, this can be minimised by applying a trace of silicone grease to the pendant tube every 12 months........but that hardly adds up to more frequent servicing as implied previously. Simply pull the crown out to handset, touch the pendant tube with a spot of silicone grease, and it'll lubricate the seal thus minimising wear.....simple! At the risk of prolonging the 'astronaut' connection.....it ain`t rocket science.

    To discount a watch because it's 'only water-resistant to 50 metres' doesn`t make sense for most applications .

    Paul
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 8th January 2015 at 18:11.

  43. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by DB9yeti View Post
    Ah that old chestnut. Yeah he winds winds a few people up in the Bear Pit, they're no doubt the 'pillars of the forum' you've received messages from.

    Enjoy your time on tz-uk, but if you're looking to avoid people, add me to your list. You seem like a dick.
    Ignore my previous reply, had thought you were Andrew, not a great comparison to be drawn tbh.

    Yeah, no problem, I have no real quarrel with you, but if I stepped on your chums toes and you want to go that way, fine
    Last edited by tekbow; 8th January 2015 at 18:33.

  44. #94
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    Storm in a tea cup? maybe call it a day or take it to PM chaps.

    personally I really like a manual wind and its one if the things that appeals to me about a speedmaster or a heuer bundeswehr. I had slight reservations about their water resistance but if rated for 50m, normal day to day wear would be fine for me. {why didn't I jump on the heuer on SC}

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by omarcomarco View Post
    Storm in a tea cup? maybe call it a day or take it to PM chaps.

    personally I really like a manual wind and its one if the things that appeals to me about a speedmaster or a heuer bundeswehr. I had slight reservations about their water resistance but if rated for 50m, normal day to day wear would be fine for me. {why didn't I jump on the heuer on SC}
    Agree with both points.

    Mods?!!!!!

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew View Post
    I guess you're the one who's put himself in charge, then?

    It's a good thing I don't work for a satirical magazine that pokes fun at the fundamentalist leanings of branded Veblen-good fanatics - I wouldn't want some humourless, arrogant stevedore waving an AK around looking for retribution whilst suggestively fingering his Speedo! Sorry, Speedy!
    I've just read this thread because I prefer manual wind to automatic, I love my Speedy and I have an interest in the history of manned spaceflight.

    The watch discussion - very interesting, and as Sara suggested I can see no reason why an automatic wouldn't wind perfectly happily with the movement of an astronaut's arm in the confines of an Apollo Command Module.

    The bickering - well put it this way, unlike some on here I don't know either andrew or tekbow but judging by tekbow's contribution to this thread up to the point andrew stepped in with the unwarranted and unfunny sarcasm, and the fact tekbow's tried to apologise and draw a line under it, there's only one person who comes out of this with a modicum of dignity, and it's not andrew.

    As for the quoted comment above, well that's just a disgrace, nothing less.

  47. #97
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    I meant to add that the two Apollo 13 mid-course correction burns timed by Jack Swigert on his Omega and referred to in an earlier post were 15 seconds and 22.4 seconds, rather than the "minutes" suggested. So in those circumstances it was probably far easier to use a chronograph to time them accurately.

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Well, there's someone on here who posted a photo of him swimming in his.

    WR is 50M, so you SHOULD be able to swim in it, but it'll need servicing regularly.

    M.
    Here's the shot. It's not my watch but it's so unusual to see a Speedy near water let alone in it, I grabbed a copy. While I'm sure Paul's 100% correct about the reality of daily WR rated at 50M, while he wouldn't wear it swimming for his reasons, nervousness, unfounded or not would be mine.


  49. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by dkpw View Post
    Here's the shot. It's not my watch but it's so unusual to see a Speedy near water let alone in it, I grabbed a copy. While I'm sure Paul's 100% correct about the reality of daily WR rated at 50M, while he wouldn't wear it swimming for his reasons, nervousness, unfounded or not would be mine.

    I would be the same but it's nice to know it can take it in the event, say,getting pushed into the pool by your mate.

    I guess looking at its history it was designed as a pilots or sports chrono? So coming into consistent contact with water was never on its remit

  50. #100
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    I'm with the manual wind lovers :-)

    I've just picked up my Panerai out of the box and it was almost down to zero on its power reserve. Amazingly, it's still bang on accurate and the manual winding it needed to get the power reserve full is what's it's all about. The interaction between man and machine :-)

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