I think that's were the confusion is - the ball has come off a hand onto a hand.
How likely does that happen infant remember any penalty ever involving that scenario.
In my opinion VAR aside is that I would.have given a penalty. Trent clearly moves his arm out and away from his body and into the path of the ball.
Doesn't matter where Silva's arm is. If it hits his hand, it's a handball, as he's an attacking player. Liverpool have gained advantage from a City handball not being given, I don't see the problem. You can't reasonably expect them to review the incident, decide that it's not a penalty because there's a city handball, and then pull play back to award a Liverpool free kick?Originally Posted by thegoat
Had it not started with the Silva handball, it's a clear penalty.
Neil Warnock to Arsenal, with Emery moving the other way?
Just looking for some light relief from all the VAR chatter.
Wenger to Bayern, Jesse Marsch to Spurs, Pochettino to Man U, OGS to Kristiansund, Mourinho to Madrid, Zidane to Sky.
Sorted.
Sigh
And AFTER the Silva handball, Arnold STUCK his arm out to stop/control the ball so a completely different incident .
Again, you seem to think that I’ve taken umbrage because it was City . I haven’t . It wasn’t even the most blatant penalty incident yesterday. It’s the whole system and if you think it’s OK , then great, keep defending it and putting up with it .
So they should analyse the Liverpool handball, without looking at the preceding handball?
OK,I’ll try again
According to IFAB rules , Silva didn’t commit handball because
A . It wasn’t deliberate
B. He didn’t gain control of the ball
C. He didn’t create a goal scoring opportunity
D. He didn’t score a goal .
TAA could have been penalised as he made himself bigger, his arm was in an unnatural position and hecwasnt close enough to the ball to be deemed accidental.
I get the mistakes from Oliver , but can’t accept the guy with nobody to answer to , 200 miles away in a box making , or more specifically,refusing to change big decisions
Fair point about Silva, I didn't realize that the attacking player rules were different dependent on wether it leads to a goal/opportunity.
The TAA one, I think, is a penalty when viewed on the replay. It's a bit of a mess when they have to decide firstly of its a penalty (a subjective call regarding intent/position etc), then the subjective call wether it's a clear and obvious error.
I expected a heated debate about it on MOTD2 last night. Shearer and Crouch both just said it was a penalty, in their opinion, and that was about it! Former ref Keith Hackett said the same in his Telegraph column this morning. Ridiculous that they've changed the handball rules (supposedly to something more objective) and still people - "experts" - can look at the same incident and draw different conclusions.
Unless there's a pretty swift and significant improvement, I'd just bin VAR as a failed experiment. You have to accept a duff decision from the officials on the pitch so having duff decisions made remotely doesn't add a lot - certainly not for the paying fans who are largely kept in the dark as to what's going on!
There won't be a swift improvement. Everywhere it's been implemented, there's been a 1-2 season settling down period. Refs are still adapting to how/when to use the system, the operators are getting to used to when they should/shouldn't intervene.
The sheff Utd goal is a good case in point. It was the correct decision, and once the implementation is explained, you can see it's correct. But the rules regarding offside probably need to be tweaked due to var coming in. No one wants to see goals disallowed for a toe being offside 5 passes before the goal is scored.
They shouldn’t need to start from scratch then! Why not look at what other countries/associations have done and implement what appears to be best practice on Day 1. Why spend 2 seasons making the same mistakes.
Like I said, it’s a multi £m business and deserves better than a load of amateurs playing trial and error which is what it looks like at the moment.
Because each league is different. It's not plug and play, the rules vary from nation to nation. And the expectations of the players/crowds are different.
They'll get there, but it will take a season or two. Beyond naive to think such an enormous procedural change wouldn't.
Everyone's getting a bit silly about it because it's new. Give time and it'll improve. They'll refine the process, discard some parts and add others. But the genies out the bottle, it's not going back in. The technology is here, and staying.
Teams will be relegated on the back of some of these decisions . That, in this day and age is shocking. You are talking literally tens of millions of pounds . This isn’t trial and error . It is PGMOL backing up the on field ref at every given opportunity this season. The pitch side monitor should be used, no discussion.
Another idea would be to show the ref in Stockley the incident but not let them know the referees decision so they have to make an independent choice. All this needs to be transparent to the match going fans and teams alike on the monitor.
Thought it was an international sport with common rules. I think the “expectation” is for competent and consistent officiating. Why would players/crowds want different things? I’m pretty sure a majority of English football fans would say the Premier League implementation has been poor and has caused more issues than it’s solved.
As would fans in the early days in Italy. But it's been refined, and improved.
The basic framework of the rules is the same, the implementation isn't. It's why (for example) goalkeepers get treated differently in Europe compared to the pl.
Look at the implementation of var in the women's world cup, horrendous. There's ideas that work on paper that don't translate to the real world. But until they're tried, it's impossible to know.
Hear hear.
Cheers,
Neil.
Apparently the 20 clubs are meeting with Mike Riley on Thursday to voice concerns over VAR .
I rather liked Gary Linekar’s explanation of how VAR should work on his podcast with Danny Baker... basically, it’s a bloke sitting, watching the match, in front of the tele and if, at some point he says ‘blimey Ref, you’ve got that wrong’ then they should have a quick look at the video and see whether it was actually a complete howler. They then let the ref know and correct the decision.
Should ideally be used every 5 or 6 weeks rather than 5 or 6 times a match.
This. With the added proviso that the VAR has to act within 20 seconds, i.e. its a clear and obvious howler, not a 49-51 one.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
If you have to watch 15 replays from 9 different angles then it’s not a clear and obvious howler and you go with whatever the on-field ref decides.
Poch sacked by Spurs
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
Poch sacked odds on Solskjær lasting the week suddenly drop lol
Think spurs have reacted too quickly here. Clearly not being a spurs fan and not there weekly I may not be the best placed to say that. But, I’m sure he would of turned it round fairly quickly. Let’s be fair we are only 6 month on from the CL final!
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I think Levy will regret that.
Edit .... Jose just been muted on the BBC.
Last edited by Middo; 19th November 2019 at 22:12.
Seriously what is the Spurs owner thinking sacking him and his entire back room? Driving home listening to talksport they were saying he must have someone in mind ready to come in before Saturday but the big problem is they have so many players running down their contracts if Poch gets himself another club (Will R Madrid come calling now?) Spurs could see several players walking come end of season or even January.
How on earth did the owners think Poch could take the club forward with no money to bring in players? This is the man that took them to a CL final and close to winning the league a few years back!
I think he’s well out of that. Without the investment then Spurs are always going to struggle. Hopefully he will get a chance elsewhere and get his sparkle back.
God help Spurs if Mourinho is the replacement
I'd welcome Poch at Arsenal with open arms and he'd get more money than he had at Spurs
Genuinely surprised - and Emery and OGS still in work.
I actually enjoyed watching Jose as a Sky pundit the other week. I do hope he doesn’t return to management, but you have to assume there’s a replacement waiting in the wings. Neil Warnock lol..
The end of my dreams.... What a 5.5 years... I just don't get it.... They won't get another manager of his quality.....
How about Sol Campbell as next manager........
Given his success there, it's not a simple case of a poor run. There's loads of rumours about the squad, infighting (literally), and boredom with his methods.
Think it had run its course.
I think there are probably a few Spanish clubs on the phone to him as we speak, while he sits with his feet up smoking a cigar counting his pay off cash.
This has got to be one of the most insane decisions of the season.
It's going to be Mourinho isn't it ffs.
Will probably sign Drogba and John Terry
Either would be an improvementIt's going to be Mourinho isn't it ffs.
Will probably sign Drogba and John Terryhope you get JM and Joe Lewis’s pockets can match his only way forward and that is buy,buy and more buy but come on you “ irons” this WE.
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
Not a chance Mourinho will go to Spurs. He likes shiny new players too much.
My money's on Rafa.
He'll do well there too.
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As Jimmy Greaves once said "It's a funny old game", going by the resources/money they have spent OSG and Emery should be sacked, Pochettino on the other hand has done some great work at Tottenham and net spend of just over £100 mill over 5 years.
I don't understand why Tottenham would want Mourinho as the next manager/coach, although he has a great track record of winning trophies, he also has a track record of spending lots of money and upsetting players.
I would expect Lewis and/or Levy would go for someone who can work on a budget and has an affiliation to Tottenham to appease the supporters i.e. Chris Houghton.
Ole should be sacked for signing AWB, Maguire and James?
Errrr...OK
In other news, madness by Spurs. Interested to see who they land up with but can't see them being better that Poch.
Poch is a quality manager and whilst the current run shows something has gone wrong, they will struggle to find better.
That said, always cheaper to change the manager than a full squad and with cash short following the stadium move it might benefit them short term.
I’m hoping it continues to go horribly wrong.
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As life long fan and season ticket holder this is a sad day. Something clearly was not right. You could see that from the performances. A group of players who looked tired and disillusioned and just were not playing as a team. Certain favourites who were getting selected regardless of performances.
Just been announced it’s Mourinho! Why?
Jose appointed.
I'll eat my hat if that goes well
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What on earth is Levy thinking???
Jose haha brilliant. Hope you enjoyed your attacking football spurs.
Absolutely bonkers.
Once he wins his first trophy, all will be forgotten .
For a while maybe, but we all know it will end in tears at some point.
Roll forward to the time a Spanish team coached by Poch meet Spurs in the Europa league - probably next season then...
If he wins a trophy.
I think it speaks volumes about Mourinho’s standing in the game these days that he’s taken the Spurs job. 3-4 seasons ago he would have deemed them not worthy of his talents.
I think at the start of the season that most people would’ve had Tottenham as top four . They are not a poor team . I don’t subscribe to the “ lost the changing rooms “ crap that will be peddled out . Mourinho will be promised money for January and Id imagine the squad will be in it for at least this season . They could feasibly win the FA Cup and will tighten up enough to progress in the Chumps League .
At least United will be able to offload Matic now .
I really hope it goes well for Jose at Spurs, he badly needs a career reset. Can't help thinking that as soon as he hits a bad patch, that vicious circle of player discontent and failure on the pitch feeding each other will kick in.
John Terry will be up early this morning.It's going to be Mourinho isn't it ffs.
Will probably sign Drogba and John Terry
Will need a big gadget up front now as well "to hold things up", pity Lukaku's lost all that weight, will be kicking himself!
As a CFC supporter all i can say is hopefully a short term marriage followed by a messy divorce. The unrest at Spurs has been evident before the end of the last season and it was always not will Poch go but when and it’s obvious that this deal was not done last night on the back of a fag packet but still cannot see the fit.
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
Poch to Man United?
Woody will be desperate to avoid missing out on the Champions League two years running, some of the big sponsorship deals are reduced in that scenario.
Or has OGS's much vaunted run of 5 wins in 6 bought him the opportunity to manage the January transfer panic splurge?!
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