Reply With QuoteWish I'd got the wall space/environment to display one of these. Get in quick if you fancy one!
https://www.autosport.com/netw/news/...promobar_title
Having watched the Merc debrief, your analysis was actually spot on!Originally Posted by Mouse
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Wish I'd got the wall space/environment to display one of these. Get in quick if you fancy one!
https://www.autosport.com/netw/news/...promobar_title
Supercar as it is, you would not take it over the B-roads up into the mountains here either.
The 161 cm wide, 370 cm long Porsche 718/2 F1 car however would be great fun ;-)
Obviously modern F1 Tilkedromes are not real world country roads but the racing line is like a narrow B-road and the larger the car ahead is, the more difficult it becomes to drive around it; thát is what overtaking in essence it; drive around it while it sits on the narrow racing line.
The point is that F1, while fabulous and exiting in the power plant, has lost it imo on the dimensions of the car, shooting itself in the foot because it makes overtaking too difficult. Not just in Monaco, even on wide open Tilkedromes.
There is a lot of hype about Zandvoort but the current cars will have a very, véry hard time overtaking there.
The long wheelbase, overall lenght, makes the cars impossibly wide in corners and to get ahead is literally further away.
Canada might get interesting if Mercedes are really going to run 1030bhp engines to eradicate Ferrari's power advantage, how long before they start going bang?
This weekend sees us at the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, a street circuit held on the man-made Notre Dame Island in Montreal. The first race held at Montreal was in 1978 and was won by the driver the circuit is named after, though it was only named thus after Gilles’ tragic death in 1982 whilst qualifying at Spa. Gilles Villeneuve remains to this day a hero to many historic F1 fans due to his seemingly heroic manner behind the wheel and he won 6 GPs in his 6 year F1 career, all with Ferrari, and the ’78 win was his first.
The Circuit Gilles Villeneuve is known for two things, its reputation for being a brake-buster and the “Wall of Champions”. It’s a circuit of straights and heavy braking zones though the straights aren’t the longest on the F1 calendar, as a result the carbon discs don’t get much of a chance to cool between each pad-to-disc application. Should the discs get too hot they’ll start to oxidise, and when they oxidise they start to physically break down in a spectacular fashion – witness clouds of black dust spool from the front wheels as the discs are punished. There are a few technical tricks that each team can use to keep those temperatures under control, namely larger brake cooling ducts, wheel rim design, more heat resistant materials and/or more cooling vents in the discs themselves. Drivers can also come off the throttle a little sooner as well as play with the brake bias, the rear wheels can be set to higher energy re-gen settings thus shifting the brake bias rearwards. If this energy recovery system should fail then it'll be game over as the rear brake discs simply aren't large enough to take up the remaining strain, the fronts simply won't be able to cope.
Lewis Hamilton took his first ever F1 race win in Montreal during his rookie season for McLaren in 2007, that race was also the scene of Robert Kubica’s brutal accident at the Turn 10 hairpin. Kubica took revenge in 2008 by claiming the race win in his BMW Sauber, and Lewis Hamilton has won a further 5 races in Canada since that rookie win. Anyone remember Button in 2011? Now that was a cracker!
As already mentioned Mercedes are rumoured to be introducing a PU upgrade, their first of the season, and given Hamilton’s modern day dominance of the circuit (only Michael Schumacher has won more with 7 top step finishes) I won’t be betting against the Brit equalling the German’s record on Sunday. I hope that Bottas continues his form, Ferrari and Vettel took both pole and the win last year and they appear to have the most powerful engine this season, if it’s not a Mercedes on the top step then expect the driver to be wearing red.
Pirelli will be bringing along their C3, 4 and 5 compounds, marked white, yellow and red respectively and all teams appear to be favouring the softer C5 compound this weekend. There’s a chance of rain on Friday though the forecast is looking dry for Saturday and Sunday with mid-high 20s predicted for race day, this will place extra strain on those front discs. Renault have reportedly resolved their reliability issues and now have a qualifying mode they can rely on, Mattia Binotto has revealed that he’s re-jigged Ferrari’s management structure and current F2 frontrunner and Williams reserve driver Nicolas Latifi, a Canadian, will take Kubica’s seat for 90min on Friday.
Lance Stroll won’t be the only Canadian driver present this weekend. Can he break out of Q1 on home turf?
Last edited by CardShark; 6th June 2019 at 15:10.
Stroll is consistent In Canada
No prizes for guessing which billionaire's son didn't make it out of Q1 this week.
- - - Updated - - -
You beat me to it!
Great result for Vettel. It should make the first corner interesting, but I feel that LH will be more interested in finishing in front of VB than risking all on an Vettel overtake in the first half of the race. His opportunity will come if he can pressure Vettel later in the race, and providing Le Clerec is not climbing all over him.
Having MV in the middle of the grid should add a bit of spice along with VB trying to improve is position.
Should be quite tasty.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I've been distracted from F1 by real life of late, but I just heard that March co-founder Robin Herd has passed away:
https://sports.yahoo.com/march-f1-te...181716400.html
One of many innovators from the early 1970's, when Formula 1 cars all looked different.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
Saw one at Tesco today. Doesn't look that large TBH!
At the one near me it is the same width as the parking space
In fairness, the car isn't great, and he's the only Merc driver without the new engine after his went up in flames. They reckon it's worth 0.2 per lap. In that context, he did at least as good a job as Perez.
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Leaving and then rejoining the track in front of another car is an absolute penalty, I don’t understand why the pundits try to stir it up.
We’re there any overtakes without DRS?
Respectively disagree. The car was still out of control when he rejoined and there was little he could do. I'm not a Vettel fan but this decision was unfair.
I think Sebs penalty was unfair. I think he could have joined the track a bit more to the left, but at those speeds it’s impossible to make those decisions. He was just trying to maintain control of his car.
The penalty was never in doubt, there is no grey area, he left the tack and joined in front of another car, it wouldn’t have mattered if he was airborne he would have still been penalised
In Monaco MV should have got a drive though but got 5 seconds, he got off light
Last edited by adrianw; 9th June 2019 at 21:12.
Unfair or not, Vettel again just couldn't handle the pressure and really can only blame himself for causing all this in the first place.
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The penalty neutralised the race, which is a shame because it was one of the few of late that had some substance to it.
Again respectively - there is no penalty for leaving and rejoining in front of another car. The regulation relates to whether this is done dangerously.
With respect, that is semantics, joining in front of another car is dangerous
Looked dangerous to me and he has history of this type of thing. His antics afterwards was classless
You're forgetting why the car was out of control. It's Vettels error, which has led to the incident. His error shouldn't impede another driver. Regardless of why, he hasn't left a cars width.
Arguing he's out of control is like the numpties that argue Schumacher was out of control when he turned into Hill. It's nonsense.
In that situation, it's solely Vettels responsibility to join safely. If he can't because he's lost control, that's his error, his fault.
The spoilt child routine afterwards was a bit silly as well.
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I did say it might get tasty
Now let's see what the Rules say
The relevant rules are in Chapter 5 of the sporting code. 2b) "manoeuvers liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited."
2c) Should a car leave the track for any reason, and without prejudice to 2(d) below, the driver may re-enter the track. However, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any advantage.
and possibly: 2e) It is not permitted to drive any car unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time.
Rules apply to all drivers and are there for the protection of ALL drivers. Had Vettel had any brains, he would have let LH through (to prevent being accused of gaining an advantage) and then tried to actually race LH. The simple fact is that Seb bottled it - again.
As for his stunt after the race and switching the signs over. Either the act of a spoilt child or a cynical attempt to gain sympathy by making out it was not his fault and that he was being victimised. Whatever it was, it was rather funny.
Great drive again by LH. Proving once again that does not need to overtake, he just has to provide pressure, and Vettel will do the rest for him.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Well put
Fear not lads. Cilla will be along soon to give us his wisdom and to remind us why F1 is so boring.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I agree with Vettels comments in the news conference, there are to many rules, it’s not racing
Did Seb actually gain an advantage though, given that he was already in front of Lewis?
Stuart
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Having a Racing Licence myself and had my fair share of "off's" admittedly nowhere near F1 speeds and nowhere near the talent of those drivers and never in a downforce car that penalty was unfair and I'm a fan of Lewis's driving. The rules should be read with the purpose of the rule in mind and as Brundle, Button, Karun said that rule is there for corners where someone goes off spins and then floors it back into a chain of cars. On that corner on that track Seb was just trying to maintain control. In no way did he deliberately cut off Hamilton. Steward process needs amending perhaps made up of only ex drivers rather than only 1 ex driver at the moment.
In my view that was a racing incident.
You need consistency though, didn’t MV do the same thing at COTA and get a penalty
The rules may be the problem. But the stewards have to apply them. They did so correctly. Let's not overcomplicate it with "but this happened, and it's because of this and this and this".
Vettel made an error. His error impeded another driver. He was penalised. It's really that simple.
Good drive by Stroll incidentally.
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Here's the Stewards' decision in full - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/s...461267/?nrt=54
At the time of the event I thought the penalty unfair and unjust and argued my point with friends I watched the race with, a couple of replays after I rather begrudgingly changed my mind. Vettel's penalty was the correct decision as per the letter of regulation, his mistake ultimately lead to Hamilton having to leave the circuit (as in all 4 of LH's wheels crossed the white line defining the circuit boundary) and Vettel's re-entry to the circuit was, therefore, unsafe.
I use the word "begrudgingly" because. on the surface, it still looks like a poor decision to seemingly more than most race fans, especially the more casual observers. Lewis wasn't slammed into the wall, the cars didn't touch and no time advantage was gained so it would be easy to come to the conclusion that there wasn't really anything unsafe or unfair about it, it's only when you look into the regulations that the situation becomes appropriately defined.
Edit to add that Steiner's slapping down of Magnussen was also deserved, and that Ferrari have notified the FIA that they intend on appealing against the decision despite the fact that, according to the regulations, they can't... Let's see if they follow through with their stated intent.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...zn44HiLqBDBkII
Last edited by CardShark; 10th June 2019 at 00:16.
I have read on another forum that after being advised of the 5 sec penalty Vettel said “ What am I supposed to do, keep to the left and let him pass?”
That implies that he knew exactly what he was doing and blocked Hamilton deliberately.
The sensible thing to do would have been for Ferrari to advise Vettel to let Hamilton pass, which would probably have led to no penalty being given, and then try to overtake him in the remaining laps. They appeared to have the straight line speed to achieve this.
None of this would have happened if Vettel had not made the mistake in the first place, caused by the pressure Hamilton was putting him under.
It's interesting that in 2008 at Spa, when LH missed the Bus Stop he got a 25 sec penalty. This was dispite LH allowing Kimi to regain the lead (just), before he then re-overtook him on the straight.
LH went on to win the race. However the refs decided to impose a penalty meant that not only did he not win the race he actually finished 3rd and considering what happened in Brazil, it could have even cost him a WDC.
To me this was a much harsher penality than the 5 secs that Vettel got yesterday.
For me Vettel needs to stop whinging and start driving like a world champion. He needs to stop blaming the car, the tires, the rules, the weather, other drivers, the strategy, pit crew, etc, etc and start to take some responsibility for himself and his actions. He is a 4 times WDC ffs.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
The rules are there for a reason and whilst I initially thought it was wrong, I have now taken the opposite view.
Vettel made the mistake and by rejoining the track in the way he did, prevented LH from passing him for the lead. Had SV not been penalised then LH would have effectively been penalised for a mistake made by SV whilst SV wouldn’t have been.
It seems harsh but on reflection fair.
As mentioned above, had SV let him through, I think he could have re passed him and gone on to win the race.
Whilst Mark Hughes invariably provides a knowledgeable and clinical analysis of the races, he rarely leaves the reader in doubt as to where his personal opinion lies regarding any controversial incidents. His write up of the Canadian GP proves no exception.
I agree with him F1 is boring and has been for a long time and this was the final straw for me...i couldn't give a damn who wins but i want to see racing not this farce by the stewards...no wonder the crowd was booing.Fear not lads. Cilla will be along soon to give us his wisdom and to remind us why F1 is so boring.
My last ever "race" i will watch and have just cancelled my Sky F1 package.
Poor Niki Lauda and James Hunt must be turning in their graves at how sterile and boring F1 has become.
Bye from me.
Did anyone see the British GT race yesterday, I know the co-driver of the car that didn't win, the final 10 laps were more exciting than any F1 race I have seen for a long time, it ended with the Aston hitting a back marker and ending its race, it was still placed 10th
I was at Jerez, watching the WC Superbike races. Racing/overtaking everywhere all the time. Top crown the day Michael Van de Mark won the main event. A lóóng time a ago, I shared the starting grid with his dad Henk.
I don't think he said that, wasn't it along the lines of "he could go to the left and pass"?
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Pretty much my opinion , leaving the track and gaining an advantage and rejoining in an unsafe manner , what if LH had hit him ?
Also shocking unsportsmanlike behaviour by SV at the end of the race
In other words unforced error and behaving like a toddler , par for the course.
On the other had some great driving from the Renaults and even Stroll impressed
pretty much in one syllable
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...LQuXxILEvYCXfg
Perhaps it’s my non-partisan following of F1 these days, but I’m really surprised how many people on TZ vs the opinion of people within the sport and generally on social media, are arguing the penalty is justified.
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I am only quoting what was reported on another forum, not having heard it myself.
That said, if Hamilton had moved to the left then, in all likelihood, the cars would have collided.
Last edited by JeremyO; 10th June 2019 at 11:50.
If you mean the TV pundits as opposed to people in the sport, I think they were just stirring it up, it was a bit of excitement in an otherwise fairly dull race where 99% of the overtakes were DRS assisted.
I think those within the sport are really saying the rule is incorrect, not the decision. And from their pov, it probably is.
But the rule is there. I'm not sure what choice the stewards had.
In days gone by they seemed to have broad rules, that you had to respect the spirit of. But the Schumacher era changed things, and drivers started pushing things too far, so the rules became more prescriptive. This is one of those incidents that in the old days, would of been handled differently.
Reverse the situation, and Ferrari are on the radio complaining while Hamilton fans would be upset about a penalty.
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If that report from Autosport is correct then it puts the decision regarding the penalty beyond all doubt, tantamount to Vettels move on Hamilton at Baku 2017.
From Mark Hughes' race report -
"Did Vettel’s actions impede Hamilton? Yes of course they did. Were they intended to do that? Obviously, visibly, not. He slid over there in the process of getting the car under control. He didn’t drive it there trying to squeeze Hamilton out. That was a consequence."
From the Autosport article -
"The stewards examined slow motion footage of Vettel's actions from the moment that he had regained control and started steering his car - and felt the evidence showed that he could have made different choices that would have been within the rules.
The footage clearly captures Vettel correcting an oversteer moment as he rejoins the track - which is shown by a sharp steering wheel movement to the right.
Shortly after that, Vettel has sorted the oversteer and begins steering to the left to follow the direction of the circuit - suggesting he is now under control.
But a split moment later, rather than keeping to the left, Vettel is shown to release the steering wheel - which allows his car to drift to the right, cutting off the route that Hamilton would have taken had he had clear space."
A slight difference of opinion, I wonder if Mark Hughes was aware of this when he submitted his report? Vettel was judged to have been able to avoid creating a dangerous situation, and was hit with the penalty. With this further explanation then it really is an open and shut case.
It's all academic however if Lewis wasn't forced off the circuit and simply just blocked then would Vettel's steering input be deemed legal seeing as it would have been one single manoeuvre in defence of an attacking opponent? If Lewis had to brake heavily then probably not.
Last edited by CardShark; 10th June 2019 at 12:40.
Go & read the stewards explaination issued today. Vettel regained control & then deliberately steered right knowing Hamilton was there.
I hope he gets banned for a few races for bringing the sport into disrepute with his behaviour after the race. It demonstrated what a classless entitled child he really is.
Could've been worse; he could've invaded Poland.
'deliberately steered right knowing Hamilton was there', SV was correcting a 2m wide car at over 100mph on a street circuit not some vast tarmac carpark?
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