It will be nice for those who want to buy, seeing some rental properties come up for sale. So it's swings and roundabouts for the human race.
I wish this guy would bail. I've come to terms that the money is gone now, I would just like to get in there, do a bit of work to it and get it up for sale if I'm honest.Originally Posted by bootneck
I could do with the cash out of it for other things at the moment.
I'd say nearly everyone I know who has rented a property has faced problems with a tenant and I don't understand why the law is so biased towards the tenant. The law comes down pretty hard for someone that comes in and robs your house of £10,000 but it seems to not apply at all if someone breaks a contract and robs you of £10,000 by not paying their rent. The idea that someone can just say 'I'm going to live off you free for the next 6+ months until the bailiffs evict me' is ludicrous.
If it's a general housing/poverty problem in the country, private individuals shouldn't be picking up the bill. They should be able to reclaim what is legally theirs with a swift eviction and the welfare state should pick the problem up. Anyone explain why, as a society, we have the imbalance? How do other countries deal with this?
I absolutely agree with you Christian. As far as I’m concerned, if a tenant is one day late with their rent (without agreement from the landlord) then they’re in breach of contract. The landlord should therefore be able to evict the tenant without further notice.
If this was law then there would be no non paying tenants but probably plenty more homeless people on the streets. The only reason that the law is as it is, is to lessen the burden on the government and taxpayer.
Indeed. Less choice for those who either want to, or have to, rent. As decent landlords pack in, renters will increasingly be left in the hands of the landlords who don't care what the law says.
My partner will be giving up her rented property to move into a property for sale, so the balance remains the same.
I had someone who overstayed their welcome in a flat I let out, helped by an inept management company who hadn’t been paid for three months, paid me and then asked for it back ( they didn’t get it ).
I ended up moving the tenant and his belongings to a hostel in my van to help speed up his departure.
When your property is once again empty it is such a relief, despite the losses and make sure you have a bottle of something sparkling to celebrate!
This is what is happening. Decent landlords are leaving and renters will be left with the rogues.
I’m an accidental landlord and would happily not be a landlord and invest elsewhere but I will stick it out a little while longer.
Exactly. We have always been good landlords. Sort things out instantly and make sure people have a nice home.
I can't be arsed with it after this, the deck is stacked too far in the tenant's direction now so we will sell our properties and maybe buy\renovate and flip.
I have to assume that there were more bad than good landlords, or the legislation would not have swung towards the favour of the tenants.
That's not a safe assumption to make, at all.
Friend of mine was approached last year by his tenants - asking for a rent reduction due to being furloughed on lower wages for them both.
He agreed, only to find out months later - that both of them were not furloughed, but were working at home on full salary.
Prior to that, they were on a lower-than-market rent - so not only are they back up to previous, he has notified them of an increase in rent up to market rates.
Good. Twats.
Moral compass seems to missing for more and more folk
Why do you have to assume that? Government don't make legislation on the basis of fairness, they make it on the basis of what is going to cause them less cost and hassle. There are more tenants than landlords. Having a few landlords out of pocket is a lot easier to deal with (i.e doesn't need dealing with at all) than having a much greater number of bad tenants out on the street.
I'm selling a lot of property now. Just got one back after receiving no rent for many months. In truth the law would have allowed the tenant to stick around rent free for several months more, but we managed to persuade her to leave (nothing sinister). When she'd gone the cost of repairs and clearing a mountain of rubbish running to several skips, will top £12,000. How some of these folk live has to be seen to be believed. This is on a property that's worth maybe £130k and rents for £500-£600 a month...if you can get someone to actually pay and not trash it.
No intention of renting that out again for someone to leave me with the same problem three years down the line.
People who've never rented out a property don't have a clue. I'm lucky in that I have quite a few and so able to absorb ones like this. But I'd say if you've got 5 or less you're playing Russian roulette...maybe 10 or less.
WTF!!!!
That is incredible!
Mabe a bit of both what might be an asset to you and part of your portfolio to another may be a roof over their family head. In a situation where I could lose this roof I could see me make some otherwise out of character decisions I am sure.
Not helpful to the landlord I know but I hope your situation works out for the best.
Sent from my VOG-L09 using TZ-UK mobile app
Not really, it’s quite easy to run up huge bills from a destroyed rental property. The cleaning isn’t easy either as you don’t know that there won’t be needles amongst the piles of rubbish. That’s before considering the costs if your property has been used as a cannabis factory!WTF!!!!
That is incredible!
That said, the vast majority of tenants are honest, law abiding citizens who pay their rent on time and look after their home in the same way as any of us would.
It only takes one or two bad tenants to spoil it forthe rest though and lead to landlords selling up their portfolios.
Last edited by Dave+63; 9th April 2021 at 14:31.
Agree with what's said above. Those who haven't been a landlord often don't realise how bad things can be, particularly with the law weighted very much in favour of allowing tenants to completely legally steal from the pockets of the landlord. The system is dreadful as well - I think some landlords are so keen to get rid of bad tenants that they will quite happily give a reference just to get rid of their problem to someone else. A lot of tenants think of landlords as fat-cats rolling in their income from letting a property so they deserve what they get.
I've been a reluctant landlord twice and my wife has once. My wife thought she had a good tenant but when the tenant moved out the flat was a disgrace. I've never made much money from it and I would never go back to being a private landlord. Holiday lets maybe, but assured shorthold tenancy...no way.
I have been on the other side of the relationship as the tenant, twice. My experience was that rents were put up every 6 months however good a tenant you were. In one place the heating was kept to the bare minimum. The grass was rarely cut. Grass cutting was part of the agreement. As soon as I gave my notice to leave, I was moving away from the area, the grass suddenly started to get a regular trim as potential new tenants would want to see it in nice order. Getting things fixed always took at least a couple of reminders.
Landlords on the whole treat this roof over someone elses head as a business, maximising their rents to give the greatest amount of profit, trapping the people in rented property as they can't afford to save. The landlords have had it very good for a long time. Remember all that tax relief that they have absorbed for one. The housing market doesn't need tax relief. It just creates higher prices in the market, a market in which there are insufficient properties leading to demand/supply inbalances.
I have no sympathy for the odd few landlords that lose some money. The property has still appreciated well beyond any costs that they might incur. If it really is that awful, then landlords can always sell the property, and let someone else have their own home with their security controlled by them and not their profit-hungry landlord.
Seems we've been doing it wrong all these years, only relatively small annual rent increases even waiving that for 20/21 and a discount for the final quarter of last year in one case. We've always applied the principle that we should be willing to live there ourselves and anything legtimately within the bounds of landlords responsibility is dealt with asap. We've had in about 15 years or so maybe only 3 months of voids in one property, out of 3 properties and that was because the local council had not kept their side of the undertakings up to scratch, despite receiving full payment of service charges from us throughout. I've had more hassle with the Local councils than tenants, knock on wood.
Last edited by Passenger; 9th April 2021 at 14:43.
If people what to buy landlords are not stopping them ... if everyone bought then there would be no landlords; fact is for a number of reasons many people choose to rent. Convenience, affordability, no maintenance, ease of mobility ... its a market and the fact that the law is slanted towards the tenant is just to keep the streets clean.
I am a good landlord and I always get maintenance done ASAP and keep rents affordable but this never gets rewarded by any respect from the tenants.
Over time I have become jaded by the whole experience and I'm keen to exit in a sensible fashion.
I don't really follow that argument. I've owned two properties, one after another, spanning 13-years from 2007 until 2020. After living in them myself, both I let for about a year each because I had to due to work location. First property I broke even - sold for exactly what I bought it for and second property I lost £20,000 on. Why should it be acceptable that a tenant be allowed to rinse me of £10k+ just to atone for the sins of other bad landlords? The law should be fair and contracts upheld by both parties that signed that contract.
You really do not have a clue.
I never put rents up if a tenant is a good one and paying as they should. Capital growth has been next to zero on most of my portfolio over the past few years. Many landlords are selling up because the situation is untenable. Who are they selling to? Quite often new aspiring landlords who have yet to find out that it's a hiding to nothing.
Meanwhile there are tenants literally stealing from landlords (an activity that would get them arrested in other circumstances) and given full protection from the law while they do it.
Last edited by Jdh1; 9th April 2021 at 14:46.
Undoubtedly there are landlords who are less than reputable but, as with tenants, most are honest, decent people who want the best for their tenants. In my experience, it was always better to charge slightly lower than average rent in order to keep decent tenants long term.
That’s just not true. Yes, it’s a business, but that doesn’t mean that all (or most even) landlords are desperately trying to maximise profits. As I’ve mentioned above, it’s far better to have lower margins, decent tenants and much less hassle.
How many landlords on here are saying that they’re looking to expand compared to those who a saying they’ll be selling up? I think that tells you all you need to know.
In how many other businesses are you legally obliged to carry on supplying the service when the customer decides not to pay for that service?
That is the current situation in the landlord/tenant contract.
Do you still think it’s fair?
Yes, I've had a couple of Cannibis factories as well. That was fun clearing that lot up.
Perhaps you should enlighten me? Perhaps you might like to dispute the tax relief that has been available?
As I have said, I have seen it from the tenant's side, and I know several people who own multiple properties and are doing OK out of it. They were lucky to have good tenants. Some are breaking even, but property prices where I live have increased 10% since last year. My first landlord just wanted to milk it for all it was worth. He was an elderly man with half a dozen properties in the same village that I knew of, and owned a light industrial estate. He employed an estate manager to look after it all for him. The second landlord had an extension on his house, and was a reasonable guy. He was slightly disabled and the rent from me subsidised his wife's earnings and his disability pension. I always respected my landlord's property and treated it as though it was my own. I left them both in a cleaner condition than when I arrived. I would have certainly stayed long term if the rent had been more fair.
I had a mate who just had a single BTL property, and he seemed to attract the worst of the worst. Everyone seemed to trash the place. The last time he went back to the flat and had to refurb and clean it. He noticed the vacuum cleaner was blocked. The tenant had been using it to suck up the dog's poo!
My son is paying £1,500 per month in London to rent his 2-bed flat. He earns a fair amount, but that is a lot of dead money every month.
That's a broadly average price tbf though for a 2 bedder in London, maybe a touch on the highside but its' location depending. Best of luck to your Son, he's in a Great global city with all the opportunities that brings.
Last edited by Passenger; 9th April 2021 at 15:07.
You don't have a clue, perhaps because you are not the type of person to trash a property or fail to pay their rent. You don't have a clue, perhaps because you don't have first hand experience of people like that living in property which you have paid for with your own money...and they are now stealing from you and simultaneously landing you with a repair bill that will take years to recoup.
I'm not sure what tax relief has to do with anything, although I haven't personally benefited from it.
You're right, landlords can decide to sell up and that's what many are doing. I'm sure the government will be on hand to take up the slack....oh wait a minute.
Why doesn’t he have a clue? He said his rent was put up every 6 months, that’s his experience. Bad landlords will exist but none are going to come on here and admit it, unsurprisingly we will only here from the better ones.
If there wasn’t decent money to be made you wouldn’t do it.
Tax relief was the free money tap that was turned on, and a lot of landlords drank deeply from. You only had to go on landlords forums to read about it.
I agree, the government (of whatever shade) won't be there to pick up the pieces after years of under investment in social housing. Governments do what governments always do and entice people with tax relief to resolve an issue for them, then whip away the tax relief once they have encouraged enough people in.
OK, perhaps I have a little sympathy with the good landlords who get screwed over by bad tenants, but I have more sympathy for the poor s*ds who can't even get on the housing ladder.
Nope. If they THOUGHT there wasn't decent money to be made they wouldn't do it. There's the difference.
Just as an aside; why shouldn’t a landlord put rents up every six months if he’s asking market value? Should he subsidise your rent just because you’ve been there a while?
If certain tax breaks are available, why shouldn’t the Landlord benefit from them? It’s encouraging someone to make a property available to put a roof over your head. A roof which you are either unwilling or unable to buy for yourself!
Last edited by Dave+63; 9th April 2021 at 16:24.
Personally I wouldn't do 6 months, very few folk's salaries rise at 6 month intervals and if your tenants decent be fair by them and they stay longer...avoid the voids is a good principle I've found. Get wealthier gradually. The market generally sees to the asset value increasing over time. Just ime.
I entirely agree with you and that was how I operated when I had properties.
I was merely questioning why Templelogin felt it was somehow unfair.
Always good to pop back in now and again and see how this thread is going.
I'm a landlord and have 6 properties, a mixture of flats houses and shop units, all doing nicely and mostly unaffected by the current situation, although we have had difficult tenants, but that's par for the course it would seem.
We purchased the properties as a way of earning a decent return on our savings we had built up through working very long shifts for many years, no handouts/loans/inheritance etc etc, just shear hard work.
I do get annoyed when tenants feel it's ok to just not pay the rent whenever it suits them, no phone call or email or text explaining why, common courtesy you would think, they are soon on the phone when something goes wrong or their precious child has rammed a favourite toy down the bog and now it won't drain, or when they know the overflow from the sink has broke and they continue to use flooding the shop underneath.
We are not all wealthy people who couldn't give a shit about tenants, but hard working individuals who have tried to make something of themselves and now wanting a nice return for their hard earned so as maybe one day we can relax in our retirement.
I hate hearing people say that renting is wasted money, if people don't want to rent then save up and buy your own place, then you'll have to do all your own repairs and maybe look after it a bit better, other than that just keep renting off private LL's but be quick as most are getting out of it for obvious reasons.
Even getting out of it can be costly these days, if you've made any significant profit then the good old tax man wants his cut courtesy of CGT, that's after you've repaired all the damage left by the tenant that owed you god knows how much in rent arrears that you have very little chance of ever getting back unless you want to spend extra money taking it to court.
I must add that, like landlords, tenants are not all bad, but with the law weighted greatly on their side even the good ones are becoming less good, ( if that makes sense ).
I can see the argument from both sides. I think it’s awful that people feel no responsibility to pay the landlord and feel it’s ok to hang on until they are forced out. However, I can also see why the legal system falls on the side of the renter. Let’s not lose the perspective that this legislation is there to provide protection for the most vulnerable when they need it, remember we are talking about people here and not all of them are bad people.
I always like to imagine that if it was my family member, and they were genuinely struggling that a Dickensian landlord could not just throw them out onto the street.
The landlord has always been seen as a business and as such there are inherent risks associated with that ie none payment. This should be a risk factor taken well into account when becoming a landlord. I get that there are just awful renters about,but the law is there to protect the greater good. I guess as is proven in this thread, if you aren’t willing or haven’t thought about this risk then don’’t enter the business of becoming a landlord. Just my 2 cent which is probably worth less than that lol.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Last edited by rabbitinheadlights; 9th April 2021 at 17:05.
hmm there'll come a time when we start divesting but I've a plan, accounting for that and you've always got to hand over your pound of flesh to the tax man, goes with the territory whichever country you're investing...In the States you have both State and Federal taxes for example upon completion of sale, it is what it is.
Free money tap??? What kind of nonsense is this?
Can you explain how the free money tap works. I'd like to get me some of that there free money.
I agree that the vulnerable need help, ( if they are that vulnerable then there's financial help out there ), but not the ones that just take advantage of the system and the current situation, we've all suffered as a result of the current situation, where's the help for the landlord of the tenant that has decided not to pay and the government has made it nearly impossible to evict them.
This "throwing them out on the street" comment that always comes up is nonsense, you still have to serve notice as per the tenancy and then, if needed, the local authority could step in, and there lies the problem.
I'm gonna bend the boundaries here but it's meant humorously, hopefully will be seen by all as such...that particular tap is for the exclusive use of chums, donors and former Pub Landlords of the current junta.
Last edited by Passenger; 9th April 2021 at 17:28.
Quite possibly but as I always say "Never let the tax tail wag the commercial dog". Tax is an important factor but definitely not the only one!
Hey I say a version of that too.
Absolutely, I have been a landlord for over 25 years and worked hard to make my tenants live in good quality houses. However, the balance has swung so far in the favour of tenants that I would like to divest a few of my properties as and when they become available. However the CGT element is significant (and likely to go up) and dependant on the LTV can make no sense to sell in some cases.
However, (famous last words) I have some great tenants who have been with me for many years, and unlike others here, I always review the rent annually when the AST is renewed. Otherwise rents can fall behind market rates significantly over time. One of mine has been in the same house for over 20 years and although she pays less than market rate it is not more than 20% below. Having a good managing agent helps, and mine sorts maintenance issues quickly which keeps everyone happy.
One aspect of tenants trashing a property is that some insurance policies cover malicious damage, and also cover periods where repairs have to be made as a consequence. Worth looking at the small print (fresh in my mind as I have been comparing policies today).
Agreed. In return for the protection of the law, tenants should be legally obliged to engage with the landlord to explain why the rent is not being paid. That should sort out the honest from the dishonest and the courts could then use the behaviour of the tenant as a factor in deciding whether or not to sanction an eviction.
Am I correct in thinking there is no CGT on selling your home?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Passenger answered the question exactly as I would have.
Only he didn’t answer the questions I was asking you.
There's no CGT on selling your primary residence, no. Anything over and above that (holiday homes, bolt holes, rental properties etc) there is.
Edited to add...or in my case there isn't because they never make anything!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
