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I'd really appreciate some advice. I'm at the planning stages of an extension to the house. After careful negotiation and concessions over walk in wardrobes and en suite bathrooms, I have allowed for a dedicated media room to be at the end of the house as an extension (both sides would be detached), to where I would move my current living room set up (65" 4k Sony A1, Monitor Audio Bronze 5.1.2 system), but I would like to future proof the build to allow for future upgrades to something like a 7.1.4 XTZ system and maybe a projector unless the space is too small.
I am trying to figure out which dimensions to go for, on the understanding that the room should be rectangular rather than square (the architect originally had it as square, but perhaps a stud wall could be built and the area behind it used for AV equipment and storage?). Are Velux windows in a cinema room definitely not a good idea? It would not be multipurpose so would want to block out light.
The current useable internal proposed dimensions are 3.849m length by 2.7m width and it would be a dedicated cinema room for 1 to maximum 4 people (usually two). Is that too small or manageable?
Then I'd like to figure out what I should tell the builders to do by way of acoustic treatment to the walls. Is it as simple as stuffing then with rock wool?!
Thanks very much.
Head on over to avforums. There’s a wealth of knowledge and information on there.
I don't have a dedicated cinema room, but I do have a 7.1 set up with wall set LCR speakers. This is a shared wall with my neighbours (the house is a semi) so I spent a bit on sound insulation
I got these SM20 panels and acoustic plaster board.
https://www.soundstop.co.uk/soundpro...-solution4.php
The room might be quite small for a projector though depending on where/how you place your LCR speakers so wander over to AVforums for some input there.
Velux do excellent blinds so they are a good option.
My top tip if you go with a projector is to go for a quiet one if you can.
Best of luck and enjoy sourcing and set up.
I'm not sure I'd have a projector in a room of that size.
Your current TV sounds perfect.
I'd also have the velux windows installed. You can get blackout blinds for them and should you want to use the room for something else further down the line, they will be a bonus to have.
We do have a home cinema of appx 400sqft, and had a slightly smaller one at our previous house.
In the first we had a projector system, back when early LCD projectors cost a fortune. Now we have it with a 70” 4K TV.
The latter option works perfectly well enough for me.
A couple of thoughts - get properly comfy chairs or sofas - don’t bother with refurbed cinema seating - it just isn’t as comfortable and you’ll end up taking it out.
Sound is actually more important than picture.
Poor sound will ruin the viewing experience.
Don’t go mad with the cost of the sound system- despite what audiophiles say you don’t need to. Invest in some cool props and decor to make the room a special experience- we have genuine screen props from numerous iconic movies - eg Harry Potter, Star Wars, Titanic etc (and some more obscure fun stuff) in ours.
Make the whole thing a fun place to be and a bit of an experience. Ours also has a bar and popcorn machine in it etc.
Thanks, yes I posted there initially but had no response so tried here instead.Originally Posted by Cynar
Do not make the mistake of painting the walls a nice dark colour and then allowing “other” family members to mitigate the dark gloomy nature by suggesting having a brighter coloured carpet or floor.
As well as compromising the ambient bounce levels in the room it will emphasise the darkness with the lights up not compensate it.
Use lights and detailing to give the room space and depth whilst keeping the ambient light level controlled. Think how real cinemas manage this.
Go dark and matte but you can go with a colour : don’t worry about staying gray. I like deep blues and greens , red can look a bit sinister .
I would also stick with a direct view screen rather than go projection. Regardless of the extra size the dynamic range from projectors just doesn’t measure up against a good OLED .
You may want to give a little backlight to a direct view display . I’m not a fan personally but its easy to try .
And spend some money on a colorimeter and sound pressure level meter for setup.
Last edited by Mr.D; 2nd May 2019 at 08:50.
I would second this advice. The amount of knowledge on AVForums is amazing and I have had some great help from the forum members there. just the same as the Members on here!
Well he did and there wasn't.
Thanks for the advice everyone.
I have pretty much complete control over how the room will end up thankfully, so was thinking dark grey thick carpet, black paint at the end where the screen is (and my assumption is that should be the short end of the room with the sofa not against back wall) and maybe the ceiling immediately above, matt grey paint on ceiling. Black velvet curtains/drapes over window/external door.
Lighting would be ambient lighting round the pelmet I suppose that can be remotely switched off.
I will be putting my current sound system in (Monitor Audio Bronze 5.1.2 with a BK XLS400 subwoofer) for the time being, sounds pretty amazing already in my living room, so I am hoping in a room with acoustic treatment and the ability to turn it up as it's not on the shared side of the semi-detached house, should be better.
Heartening to hear the guidance about staying with a large TV rather than projector as that is what I was hoping. By being closer to the screen, it will be more immersive and also you need to be 8 feet or closer to actually have benefit of the 4K detail. The alternative in say ten years could be to hide the projector in a cupboard in the kitchen with it firing through the wall and have an acoustically transparent screen with the speakers behind it, so I could wire for that during the build now? Or ultra short throw projectors are coming on quite a lot (I saw an incredible one demoed at Sony Square in Tokyo, firing from a coffee table, but extremely expensive).
Seating, currently have a comfortable three seater sofa in brown leather with recliners on the two ends and of course I always sit in the middle, so was thinking something like this but in black:
https://www.pickworthfurnishing.co.u...ng-sofa/p19784
although it's very expensive and could be too wide. I can't see the point in going for a two seater as then nobody is sitting in the sweet spot.
Decor - great ideas - I already have some genuine Star Wars stuff (my grandfather was the location manager on the original), some large Polish film posters and some other film memorabilia I can use.
Good tip on the acoustic plasterboard. Would acoustic plasterboard all round be enough to dampen sound waves, or should I go for bass traps from somewhere like GK Acoustics? They will do a free modelling of the room and then sell you a package, so might see what they have to say.
Here are the things I am still unsure about that I really need to make a decision on soon:
1 - Should I have the Velux window? Seems to be me it will be additional cost and I will have the blind on almost all the time as it will be used for watching films and TV. Can't see myself using room for any other purpose so only benefit would be potential resale value to another buyer who might want to use as a playroom or similar.
2 - Dimensions - Length is pretty limited by the length of the existing garage that is being knocked down but I could make it a bit wider to 3.3252m instead of 2.7m. Is this a good idea or would it create sound wave issues by virtue of being more of a square room? A wider room could help with making the triangle with the front speakers and most space to walk round the sofa so maybe it is more practical?
3 - Ceiling - My assumption is that this should be a flat ceiling, especially as will be having Atmos but a more dramatic alternative would be a vaulted pitched roof perhaps with Atmos speakers mounted on beams. Probably would not work with sound quality though.
No time to read all the responses so apologises in advance if i repeat.
- Paint the walls (and ceiling if u can get away with it) a dark colour - I have Stifkey Blue and a black recessed pelmet (screen & down-lights) for my room and am mid-way through installing one of these in the ceiling - https://www.starscape.co.uk/cp97.php
- Dark flooring
- Paint the walls (and ceiling if u can get away with it) a dark colour
- Black-out blinds
- Paint the walls (and ceiling if u can get away with it) a dark colour :)
- If you stick with a TV a lot of people recommend bias-lighting my means of LEDs
And if you go with a projector - I have a 110" in my room and it makes sport and movies come alive especially in Scope
- Work backwards from this rule - Width of Projector Screen X 2 = minimum comfortable distance. Width of Projector Screen X 5 = maximum distance.
- With a small dedicated room you may be best off having the speakers set into the wall and buying an acoustically transparent screen
- Get a fixed-frame screen if u can get away with it
- Decide on the projector you want and then use this tool to find the ideal size and distance it needs to be installed - https://www.projectorcentral.com/pro...ulator-pro.cfm
- Might be an idea to check out a DLP projector if you plan on buying one (as they are reasonably priced) as some people suffer from 'rainbow effect'
This area of AVF is a good source for info - https://www.avforums.com/forums/home...-building.246/
Regarding acoustics within the space, this is a bit of a black art and something that you can easily disappear down a rabbit hole with, but the principles are pretty straightforward. Because sound is a wave (an air pressure wave) the fundamental issue is to lay out the room to prevent or minimise the propagation of standing waves that reinforce certain sound frequencies rather than the full spectrum. You get standing waves where a dimension of the room exactly equals a multiple of a sound wave length. Of course it is impossible to avoid this for all frequencies so the trick is to minimise the unevenness of the reinforcement effect - you can do that by having an odd shaped room (walls and ceiling not quite parallel/perpenducular with each other) rather than a rectangular or even worse cube box. This means that your suggested vaulted roof rather than a flat ceiling could be an advantage all other things being equal. Its well worth a trip to a modern cinema to have a look at the room shapes they use - it will be far from a rectangular box and is a major focus of their design process. Also, on the dimensions try to avoid the width being an exact integer multiple of the length and the same for the ceiling height to wall dimensions if you are going with a rectangular space. Having got the overall room shape right you can think about reverb control in the room - soft furnishings, carpets etc can be enough and it can be helpful to have some kind of panel absorber behind the listening position to reduce reflected 'front' sound coming back at you from behind. All in all getting the overall room right will help get the best out of your AV setup and may save you having to spend excessively on specialist acoustic control measures - employing an acoustic consultant to assist the architect in getting these aspects right from the start could save you money in the long term.
One point regarding acoustic separation - depending on your living arrangements don't forget to specify a suitably acoustic rated and sealed internal door and frame to get you into the room.
On the Velux question, assuming Building Control will be involved and they consider the room to be 'habitable' it will require some form of background trickle ventilation - the windows would provide this but if you go black box you may have to introduce an alternative provision, which adds cost and gives the sound another path to escape and annoy the neighbours.
Small but v. important point: don`t forget to put adequate heating in! Extensions can be cold places, doesn`t matter how good the sound and vision experience is if you're sat with a blanket wrapped around you
Is the acoustic treatment to improve the sound, or to keep it from leaking into the rest of the house? Acoustic plasterboard will do that latter and actually be worse for how the room sounds.
To treat the room properly to get the maximum sound quality you need to cover around 70% of the ceiling and wall areas in semi-rigid fibreglass panels, preferably at least 100mm thick and offset 200mm from the wall surface.
Not often I see a thread I know lots about so I'm excited lol.
Couple of Qs abou the room.
What's the structure? Concrete or suspended floor? Plasterboard or brick walls? Is there a room above it? What's the windows and doors layout?
I'll cover options for both super quick.
Suspended floor, put treatment under the boards between the joists. Check out trimaccoustics. Either way then use mass loaded vinyl on the boards as well as your underlay etc. Then carpet forget wood or tiles etc if you are purely going for the best sound.
Walls. Treatment in between plasterboard are good, brick will be OK as is. The issue is reflection. Best option is to have a carpenter make you some full height panel frames, and then trim them in acoustic cloth. They are about 2-3cm thick and you can butt them and trim them in all sorts of ways. Google it. Then inside the frame you can load with egg crate or /\ wedge foam. Don't even need to pay for plastering so will save you money :)
Windows are unavoidable but curtains are the obvious answer, not blinds.
The ceiling is something that looks silly if messed with so I think 99% will leave it alone, but if you want the best result panel it like the walls and use downlights over light fittings in chrome etc.
Bass traps are great behind the speakers, I use them behind my WB Disco's in my lounge and they disappear into the room fairly well. Take them out the bass gets a bit ott.
Next up is furniture. Avoid metal and leather sofas etc.
Colours are personal but I'd avoid it looking like a coal pit or your local Curzon. It's not a huge distraction is the walls are normal colours. The speakers might be high gloss in which case you can always wrap them matte.
Projectors in my opinion give a really nice look to any movie that TV can't match, regardless of resolution, but sky news looks stupid at 100" and also be prepared for some fan noise on even the best units.
Final question is ask yourself what you will use it for. If it's ONLY movies or a sport event like boxing then great, but watching Coronation St might seem a bit daft so water it down to suit.
Look forward to see how you get on!
Re the resale point you made higher up...I would suggest it is constructed in such a way as it can be used quite easily for other purposes. A cinema room definitely won't appeal to everyone
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This is a good point and why the wall panels are so good. They cost very little to make and you can move the foam in them to another house in future while returning the room to normal.
Thanks for the all the fantastic replies everyone. Will reply individually.
Still puzzling over which dimensions I should go for - now I am thinking it is better to go for the slightly wider, if squarer ones, as it would add more value in the future as a potential different use (e.g. study with garden view etc.)
If there were a window onto the garden, could it be blocked up temporarily with acoustic plasterboard or similar and the TV put over it?
- - - Updated - - -
Absolutely! The plan is underfloor heating in the whole of the downstairs, which avoids having to use up walls with radiators. Also as a newly built extension, it will be well insulated.Small but v. important point: don`t forget to put adequate heating in! Extensions can be cold places, doesn`t matter how good the sound and vision experience is if you're sat with a blanket wrapped around you
To improve the sound. I'm not worried about sound leakage as there will be nothing above the room or to either side, with only the short side joined onto the kitchen which is also an extension - so it won't be decoupled from the rest of the house, but a properly sealed heavy door should take are of most leakage. So it's really sound quality with quite a few speakers in a small space that I am interested in.
Yes I am reluctantly coming to this conclusion, as a small dark room will not appeal to all when it could be a lovely light room looking out onto the garden (!). So am thinking a Velux which could be covered by a blackout blind, a single door onto the garden which would probably be blocked by the sofa and a heavy velvet curtain and a window onto the garden which would be covered by some acoustic material and then the TV over it. Thoughts?
Makes absolute sense but is beyond me or the architect to figure out. This is the site I was looking at before, but I don't know how to create this effect,
https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Editor...Goals-Room-Dim
Perhaps it would be possible with internal plasterboard rather than external brick dimensions which would be trickier?
The other possibility I'm thinking about is going to GIK Acoustics or similar and seeing what they would recommend.
So it's an unbuilt extension which is still in planning stages which is why I'm really keen to get everything right now. Originally I hoped that by designing the dimensions of the room correctly now I could avoid the need for much room treatment in the future, but it's a bit beyond me.
No room above it or to the sides and I can set the windows and doors layout as I like, although it seems that I will need a door and/or a window onto the garden for fire regs as well as the door into it from the kitchen.
Any advice on how I should be designing the dimensions and instructing the builders would be helpful!
Basically the room will be used for movies and Netflix etc., don't really watch TV otherwise.
Here are the three options from the architect, ignore the double doors, would definitely be a single door.
Would appreciate any ideas for how to design the space best!
Yes, it’s a very specialist subject area way beyond the comfort zone of most Architects. On the other hand asking an acoustic material supplier how much of their product they would recommend is likely to result in a predictable answer... That’s where an independent acoustic consultant can become worth their fee - There are a few out there but one I have used in the past is Spectrum Acoustic Consultants.
Doing things with the internal wall linings to get an irregular room inside a rectangular structure is certainly possible, but with all these things it really depends on how far you want to go for a domestic project.
Good point.... I will check them out, thank you. I know a guy who is a sound engineer but not sure he does this kind of work. I had emailed Seriously Cinema as they are not far from me but never heard back. Any idea on very roughly how much they would charge?
Last edited by mindforge; 2nd May 2019 at 20:00.
Thats excellent, in that case forget fancy plasters and just concetrate on absorption and to a lesser degree diffraction. A leaky room is better for SQ so doing anything that keeps the bass energy from escaping is detrimental. What is the floor area you have available that you are trying to fit into a final dimension? How high can the ceilings be, 9ft is good, 10ft is fantastic
I think I read that you planned to have underfloor heating, but also a thick carpet? I might be wrong but I can’t see that being particularly efficient at heating the room?
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So what should I be thinking about for absorption and diffraction?Thats excellent, in that case forget fancy plasters and just concetrate on absorption and to a lesser degree diffraction. A leaky room is better for SQ so doing anything that keeps the bass energy from escaping is detrimental. What is the floor area you have available that you are trying to fit into a final dimension? How high can the ceilings be, 9ft is good, 10ft is fantastic
Dimensions, that's what I'm trying to figure out - have a look at the three plans below, let me know which is best!
Ceilings will be pretty high I reckon, will find out how much but must be more than 9 foot.
Well normal carpet anyway, rather than hard floors which cause reflections. To be honest I don't know about underfloor heating as I have not looked into it yet but my understanding is that it does work if it is a properly designed system?
I cant see any attachments, was there supposed to be an image?
Absorption as posted above, ideally aim for 70% coverage with 100mm thick semi-rigid fibreglass panels. Obtaining 70% is dependant on windows doors etc but its a good target to create a quiet neutral room with fast decay and no slap echo that will sound fantastic. Diffraction will come from your furnishings and is a lesser issue when you have excellent absoption characteristics
The three room options have some minor failings.
The door is where your front speakers are unless you go for satellites. In which case I think you are going ott on the room.
The sofas are right on the back wall which means the rear speakers are right by your ears. Bring the seats more central.
For heating the point about carpet is valid. The combo of MLV, underlay and carpet will blunt the underfloor heating so have a look at discreatheat.com they sell brilliant skirting boards you can run pipes in so they act as the radiator.
Sorry, I was unclear, completely ignore sofa and screen orientations, those are just put in by the architect for illustration purposes.
I posted the plans just for the dimensions as I'm unclear whether to go for the squarer room or the rectangular one.
My plan is to put screen against back short wall opposite the entrance door, sofa in middle of back third of room so that speakers can be behind seating position.
I have the speakers already which are full range Monitor Audio Bronze.
Great idea about the skirting boards, I have take a note. Hope you can paint them as they are all white on the website!
Last edited by mindforge; 3rd May 2019 at 07:31.
This is perfect advice. Sony do some pretty decent projectors and we just upgraded to one of these. Heat management is an issue worth considering as is a decent lighting solution.
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Still trying to make a decision on dimensions - if I can squeeze out some more space, so the long side is 4m and the short side is 3.5m, then the screen can go at the end on the short side opposite the door, with the sofa in the middle. I think 2.7m would be too narrow as ideally would have a three seater sofa so the sweet spot will be the central seat (for me obviously). Seems unsatisfying to have a two seater and then neither seat is dead on.
I wouldn’t like to sit in the middle of a sofa.
Would you rather sit off centre than sit in the middle? or move the sofa so that it is off centre and you're in the middle?
Funnily enough, that was exactly the scenario I was thinking of.
I am one of those people who would prefer a room with a view to a cinema room. That said, having read TheFlyingBanana's description of his cinema room with all the accessories to make it a really fun experience, I'm beginning to see the attraction! Good luck with whatever you do :)
ATB
Jon
Thanks! Well the kitchen and dining room will both have large glazed windows and doors into the garden so surely I'm allowed one dark cave to watch movies in...!
Thanks - should be some images below in my post from 19:26 yesterday. The headroom against the side walls is approx 2616mm. As an illustration, we could have a false ceiling at 2.75m (so about 9 feet). There is plenty of headroom. Depending on the exact height of the false ceiling, we can achieve any headroom needed.I cant see any attachments, was there supposed to be an image?
Absorption as posted above, ideally aim for 70% coverage with 100mm thick semi-rigid fibreglass panels. Obtaining 70% is dependant on windows doors etc but its a good target to create a quiet neutral room with fast decay and no slap echo that will sound fantastic. Diffraction will come from your furnishings and is a lesser issue when you have excellent absoption characteristics
Hard to tell from the section of drawing shown but is there a utility room in the plans?
Yes there is a pretty large utility room further back in the centre of the house, with a toilet and a cloakroom off it (and a separate dining room and living room), why?
Just going to say that washing your pants in a different room to where you eat your cornflakes is more important than a home cinema but you've got that covered!
Looking at the size of that room, as I said earlier, I think a really decent TV set up is a better option.
Looks a great project!
Ha yes, a very good point! Large utility room was always a must. Plus a walk through boot room/cloak room on way to downstairs toilet.
I'm sure it would be impressive and immersive with a 92 inch projector but that's for the future as I already have the 65 inch 4K A1 TV.
My main decision I am dithering over is whether to have 2.7m width by 4m length, which only fits a 2 seater in but is rectangular, or 3.5m width by 4m length, which would fit a three seater in but be more square. I'm inclined to the latter as a better space even though it reduces the glazing on the kitchen side.
Off centre, resting on one arm just seems more comfortable. Moving the sofa wouldn't help.
Our projection room measures 4.6m x 4.3m with a three seater sofa facing the slightly longer aspect and a 300cm/118" projected image. I like the way that the equipment is unobtrusive when not in use, allowing the room to be easily adapted for other functions.
Thanks that's really helpful. Do you have the sofa up against the wall or with a gap?
It's against the wall. We just have a stereo and bass speaker set up at the image end, I've never been too fussed about surround. I love watching concerts with it turned up to 11 when the rest of the family are out.
I am a 2 channel only music lover, I have never done HT so my advice on room size is skewed. I would be looking for a room in a 3:5 ratio. I am not sure what your constraints on size are, is it budget or available apce? A room that is too square can be a real problem as can be a room where you are sitting too close to the wall behind, unless you treat the room as I have suggested. 2.7m seems quite narrow but 2.7 x 4m could work depending on how committed you are to acoustic treatment and what volume you like to listen at.
Cheers
In smaller rooms I generally ditch the centre channel and run with a phantom centre using the stereo fronts.
The centre channel becomes pointless if you can’t get enough separation between the imaging on the fronts and the differences in voicing across the front soundstage ( even if they are all the same model speakers) can be very offputting.
Running 4.1 is perfectly acceptable for smaller rooms.
If you have speakers with a healthy frequency response you might be able to live without the sub too. ( I like a sub though).
Understood, makes sense, I do already have the centre speaker for where it is currently set up in a larger room on the long wall, for a living room set up.
Ideal viewing distance for a 65 inch 4k screen is very close, 4 feet. Viewing position needs to be a bit further back at the apex of an equilateral triangle of about 65 inches, to get the sweet spot for listening. Then the back speakers can be the same or a bit further distance back against the back wall, and I can move the door into the room to the centre of the wall.
So on that basis, I'm thinking the narrower width of 2.7m is fine (which doesn't compromise the kitchen), we have a two seater sofa with no arm rest and two beanbags for the children, then if necessary we could put a riser in a second row in the future, but unlikely.
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