Having owned and ridden HDs, I stand by the comments about the bike; for me, it just doesn't work.Originally Posted by j0hnbarker
The comment about the Triumph wasn't that the Triumph is better, it's that it's better balanced. The engine/chassis/brakes/riding position work together.
I've made similar comments about current HDs, in particular that the lower powered 107 engines are more suited to the bikes than the 114 engines.
The R18 has an engine with monster torque at the bottom end so works well at lower speeds, but suspension that is overly firm such that it works best at higher speeds that don't suit the riding position or the brakes or the engine which gets very coarse.
That is fine, but your original post was comparing apples with oranges!
The BMW is a premium product aimed at the top end of the cruiser market. The Triumph is a mass market bike comprised of various assemblies from the Triumph parts bin.
Great if you prefer the Triumph, but the better comparison would have been with the new Rocket 3, which is much closer to the BMW in terms of concept.
Can't see that ever competing with Harleys. Two totally different things. And Harleys don't 'compete' with anything really, they're just Harleys.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Yup....Harley have their own market segment.
Pity for them it's shrinking faster than testicles in icy water.
Ouch!!
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Something I learnt today... don't stop your bike using the engine kill switch.
Or if you do, like I did yesterday when I nipped out between showers, remember you did it the next morning or you will panic when it won't start and you end up thinking your one week old bike is borked with various colourful thoughts involving the words 'Italian' and 'electrics'.
All good now
I'll try and say a bit more and not make the mistake of making a comparison with the wrong bike...
Summary... 1.8 litres of monstrous torque wrapped up in a very shiny black and chrome package. Lots of vibration, suspension harsh at legal speeds, poor brakes, uncomfortable and bloody heavy. Exhaust not quite as ugly in real life as it looks.
The engine is phenomenal at the bottom end but vibes are really intrusive above 3,000 RPM. It works nicely between 45mph and 60mph in 4th though so the engine is great for cruising. Brilliant at firing out of slow corners. I'm not sure why there are 3 engine modes though as the "Roll" setting is very soft and I can't see the point of it.
I do like that they've engineered the torque reaction back in (or not engineered it out if you prefer) so it behaves more like older boxers, at least in terms of rotation around the crank if not the rear rise and squat.
Suspension is harsh and needs to you to press on before it starts to work well, which suits neither the engine vibes or the riding position. It does mean that it is quite unpleasant at cruising speeds on imperfect tarmac.
The handling is actually rather good and you can press on, but obviously ground clearance is a limiting factor. Thankfully the bike isn't hampered by a huge rear tyre and skinny front requiring lots of counter-steering to keep it on line
It's possible that the brakes weren't fully bedded in on the demo, but I wasn't confident that they'd haul me to a stop if I needed them to. Thankfully engine braking helped out.
Comfort isn't something that BMW feel they need to trouble us with on this bike. The riding position is a little cramped but bearable, but the seat is like a bench. I note that BMW offer a higher seat which might make the knee bend a little easier.
The electronics package is a little basic, there's no fuel gauge or range indication which surprised me. Nor is there cruise or even an option of sat nav. Neither is there a quick shifter, but with the torque reaction that's perhaps a good thing.
I've no idea why it's got a 200mph speedo either other than for bragging rights down the pub.
I own 3 BMW boxers at the moment and haven't been without one since, I think, 1987, so I am pretty familiar with the product and what BMW can do. The R18 feels like an opportunity missed.
:-)
Don't worry, even if you do think of the Street Scrambler as a parts bin special, the point I was making is that Triumph has picked them carefully to work harmoniously and as a package it's more consistent than the BMW that's been developed with a clean sheet.
Haha we’ve all done it. Or at least I have. More than once.Something I learnt today... don't stop your bike using the engine kill switch.
Or if you do, like I did yesterday when I nipped out between showers, remember you did it the next morning or you will panic when it won't start and you end up thinking your one week old bike is borked with various colourful thoughts involving the words 'Italian' and 'electrics'.
All good now
Something I learnt today... don't stop your bike using the engine kill switch.
Or if you do, like I did yesterday when I nipped out between showers, remember you did it the next morning or you will panic when it won't start and you end up thinking your one week old bike is borked with various colourful thoughts involving the words 'Italian' and 'electrics'.
All good now
or fuel tap off then when you get to the first corner the bike starts sputtering until you realise.
Triumph are guilty more so than most others for spinning endless derivatives from the same basic platform. Look at the vast product range and then look at how many different drivetrains there are, for example.
I personally find their evocation of past design language trite. The nod to the Turner parallel twin being the most obvious. High tech in the early 50s but so boring today.
My original point was that you were comparing apples with oranges. Triumph do interesting clean sheet designs such as with the Rocket 3, which would be the obvious comparison with the BMW. Big torquey engine only used in that bike, cruiser riding position, probably aimed at a certain age demographic etc. etc.
Based on Gyp’s description of the BMW it appears to me, that Triumph have little to worry about regarding the rocket loosing sales to the BM
The rocket is smooth, comfortable, has sensible ground clearance, cruise control and actually goes around corners with surprisingly little effort. It also has fantastic brakes
It’s also well equipped with a TFT Screen providing lots of information..
Looks a billion times better as well.
I'm going to disagree here. I have owned a couple of Harleys and thought for cruising they were good. I have also owned 5 boxers and currently have a 1250. I like the R18 and would consider buying one as a second bike or bar hopper. The suspension can be adjusted and there are 3 different options for seats and setups. It's not a bike I would travel across Europe on, but for Sunday ride outs, think its quite cool. The market will be BMW owners who want a bike with a nod to the past. I doubt if BMW are expecting to sell loads to Harley owners.
I also like Triumphs, but only today I was taking to a mate who has a classic BSA and I don't really get the new bike trying to be an old one, aka Bonniville. If you want a Bonny buy an original. But that is the key to motorcycling everyone has different views and likes, bit like watches. Yes I do own a Rolex as well :)
How many old bonny’s do you think are available at any given time? I hope I can be forgiven, but I prefer my bikes to start in the morning, get me to where I’m going, and not pee oil all over the place.
I pointed out that I really didn't like all the chrome and was happily informed that this wasn't a problem as BMW are offering lots of accessories to get a blacked-out look.
Thing is, the chrome pack is part of the launch edition which is charged for.
So they charge a couple of grand to put the extra chrome on, then another couple of grand to take it back off again.
So a pastiche then? That is my issue with some of Triumph’s line up. They own the rights to the name, but the rebooted company has nothing to do with the one that died a slow death at Meridien, so why copy so much of the old design language? When they shift most of the production to Thailand what will be the point of a bike like the Bonneville...?
They moved the production a while back. They only do the TFC bikes in the UK.
Like them or not, I absolutely love my Bonneville. It's the only bike that's put a genuine smile on my face for years and brought back the joy I felt when I first started riding.
May be they should do a collaboration with Omega, in fact a string of collaborations with Omega. Throw some 007 in there too?
Nobody cares what happened in the past. They’re making good bikes that are selling very well all over the world. They have thousand upon thousands of happy customers. So they’re doing something right
Just like the Fiat 500, Mini, and VW Beetle, many buyers like the retro look, but with modern reliable mechanicals.
I’ve lost count of the amount of positive comments I’ve had from people regarding the Bobber and Speedmaster, seems wherever I park it, there will be someone reminiscing about the bike they had that looked just like it back in the 60’s.
That's going to be a lot of fun next yearSo a new project landed today. It’s an original Harris F1 with a 750 GSXR engine. It’s going to need a lot of work but it’s got the makings. The plan is to turn it into an XR69 replica, hopefully on the road by the spring.
Agreed above not just Mini’s and Beetles , but also Kawasaki W800’s , Honda Monkey bikes and Guzzi V7’s all based on 60/70’s design but with inherent reliability and cleaner engines. Both the W800 and Guzzi even at 750cc barely hit 50 bhp so they are certainly not courting performance, its the looks they are after.
The new Bonnie is light years ahead of the 60's shitters, it's design is pretty faithfull to the original.
There are zero 1960's bikes that I desire or I'd like to own.
Hipsters and misty eyed old blokes can have them....most will lose interest after they've been stranded a few times.
I've met so many denial diehards at bike meet etcs.....recognised by the anxiety of wondering if they'll make it home.
Wasted way too much time in the 60's trying to get them to run correctly.
They were mostly a pain in the arse then, and not a lot has changed.
Lovely day today so I went for three separate rides.
First, for those who know it involved the Cat & Fiddle and similar roads.
Then after lunch I gave Calimoto a go and told it to send me on a round trip south on Macclesfield. This was really good and took me on some very nice roads I know well and some very nice roads that were completely new to me.
Then late afternoon I had to take the bike back to my garage but seem to have ended up in the middle of Manchester...
Last edited by MakeColdplayHistory; 11th October 2020 at 20:07.
Good couple of rides over the weekend Tony.
Here's 60 seconds from today's ride with you, me and Howard.
https://youtu.be/vNERKyjtB0A
I'm on BMW R9T @I a n
Tony Triumph Thruxton RS @Learningtofly
Howard CCM @hhhh
Lovely day today so I went for three separate rides.
First, for those who know it involved the Cat & Fiddle and similar roads.
Then after lunch I gave Calimoto a go and told it to send me on a round trip south on Macclesfield. This was really good and took me on some very nice roads I know well and some very nice roads that were completely new to me.
Then late afternoon I had to take the bike back to my garage but seem to have ended up in the middle of Manchester...
where was the poster and what did it say?
It's on Port St, Northern Quarter and is a mural of Ian Curtis for Headstock, mental health music festival. #WorldMentalHealthDay (yesterday).
MOT and service yesterday for the RR.
Saw the R18 demo bike Bahnstormer had in - not my cuppa at all. There was a Rocket 3 there too. Looked 10 x better.
Last edited by andy tims; 12th October 2020 at 16:19.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
I understand that the heart is ruling the head here, but to take what you’ve said to the logical conclusion...
60s British bikes were sh1t
Yet people still want to be seen riding facsimiles of these sh1t bikes
Despite the fact they are now made by a company with no connection to the original
And they are assembled in Thailand
But people still buy them and tart them up with Union Jack fly screens, in spite of all of the above.
In the cold light of day you must see this is absurd! What are you paying homage to when you do this?
Don't care. Really enjoy riding it.
Ok you have made your point , so lets move on. This is one of the best threads for bikers on TZ so lets keep it that way.
A wag at work used to think it funny to set the parked motorbikes' kill switches to off. First time it confused me quite a lot but worked it out after a bit. I suspected at the time it was a "joke" as I have never used the kill switch.Something I learnt today... don't stop your bike using the engine kill switch.
Or if you do, like I did yesterday when I nipped out between showers, remember you did it the next morning or you will panic when it won't start and you end up thinking your one week old bike is borked with various colourful thoughts involving the words 'Italian' and 'electrics'.
All good now
Second time I remembered so not a problem, checked the other bikes and he'd done them all. I undid his handiwork for him.
My Speed Twin has a combined kill/starter switch which seems like a good idea.
Thanks I was listening to JD at 2am I found some new stuff on youtube.
Left a sunny but cold, dry, Warrington this morning with the intention of getting to my usual ride destination, Barmouth. By Queensferry the roads were patchy damp, and bu Ruthin they were basically full wet. I considered turning back as I absolutely hate the wet, but decided to carry on to Bala and re assess the situation there. Rhug cafe for those that know it, had all of 2 bikes in so I gave it a miss and decided to get to the lake stop at Bala. The skies were looking very dark and cloudy by now. Then it happened, the rain started, and that was it for me. Turned round right there and shot back home. The worse thing is the ride was mainly crap cos of the wet roads and my bike is now filthy. Will have to jet it off tomorrow.
Stuart
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what John Bloor has done is nothing short of a miracle.
I myself ride bikes that stir my soul and not for practical reasons.
Anyone whos heart doesn't flutter when he sees a Brough superior or hears a Trident or an old Beezer plugger just isnt living.
On that note,I saw a silver DB5 today winging down a Cotswold lane in the sun,wow lovely job but not as practical as a Micra which would you chose?
Oh no Stuart, you be careful it doesn’t melt away🤪🤪
As for me, my Zard buyer flaked, I looked at the weather and decided I’d rather take my Mrs to her horse riding event.😎 (scored some brownie points to put in the bank)
As for the Zard, if it hasn’t sold by the time my new ramp arrives, I’m refitting it’s to the XDiavel😈😈
Perhaps the design of 60s bikes had something that appeals to bikers. (bikers not motorcyclists note)
I’ve owned many bikes from Sports mopeds in the 70s, to Jap fours including the Z1, British bikes from a Tiger Cub upwards and Harleys.
I now ride an Enfield Interceptor with less power than most of those and probably less street cred. But I like the style and I like the ride. I’m not paying homage to anything I’ve been there and done it.
Bikers will probably understand. I doubt you will.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Looks like we both had bad days for different reasons Enoch. Jet wash off tomoz and onto the trickle I think. If we get a good Sunday I’ll be out, other than that it’ll be next year for me now I reckon.
Get the Zard back on your X. Why you take it off anyway, you thinking of getting rid of the Diavel?
Stuart
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I thought it was a bit to loud, but I’m going to modify the DB killers and give it another go..
If the sound isnt to your liking then fair enough. The full Termi system me and Phil had on our Diavels were pretty loud tbh. And we never had baffles in. I actually liked the sound but I get it may annoy others. Must admit, after 5 or 6 hours on the bike I would get off with my ears and head ringing!!!
Stuart
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Taking my very filthy bike (two full days of riding over the weekend) to Freddy Trott in an hour or so for a Full Monty valet and ACF-50 treatment, the latter of which I definitely don't fancy doing myself. I'd previously been riding out to Chesham twice a year to see the AYB rep out there but this is 5 minutes from my house, includes a comprehensive valet from the best in the business and is only £20 more expensive.
Thanks for the review!
Sounds like it doesn't know what it want to be.
I love the look of it. Maybe it will be developed over time into something more fit for purpose.
Your mechanical ineptitude is no reason to put others off beautiful 1960's bikes!
On a more serious note most 1960's bikes mechanical achilles heels have been addressed in the intervening 60 years by various independent concerns, owners clubs etc and uprated parts are readily available with usually no visible change to the bike. Things such as upgraded electrical systems now make 6v redundant, electronic ignition packages, much better materials for bearings, cylinders, pistons and the like, and a vast leap in tyre and suspension tech all makes an upgraded and well maintained 1960's machine as reliable as almost anything else these days.
Nice snippet.
How many miles has the R9T rear tyre done? It may be just the angle of the camera but it looks like it's a bit squared off.
Last edited by Stanford; 12th October 2020 at 14:31.
Just treated myself to one of these - fed up with trying to balance the bike upright when checking/replenishing oil and it doesn't warrant putting the bike up on stands (which for me is always a bit risky as I'm useless at it). I like the fact that it can be used on the front or rear wheel, too.
Anyone else use one?
Just treated myself to one of these - fed up with trying to balance the bike upright when checking/replenishing oil and it doesn't warrant putting the bike up on stands (which for me is always a bit risky as I'm useless at it). I like the fact that it can be used on the front or rear wheel, too.
Anyone else use one?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Your bike appears to have grown a couple of extra cylinders!Just treated myself to one of these - fed up with trying to balance the bike upright when checking/replenishing oil and it doesn't warrant putting the bike up on stands (which for me is always a bit risky as I'm useless at it). I like the fact that it can be used on the front or rear wheel, too.
Anyone else use one?
Last edited by Dave+63; 12th October 2020 at 17:27.
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