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Thread: This is how it all starts

  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamingdave View Post
    I hate it when this thread is bumped, and it's not a post from Eddie with good news. I really hope this one makes it through to production, I would have one in a flash.

    I'm in the no name camp too, I think just Smiths Chronograph is enough.
    I could have written that myself.

  2. #352
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    I still think Smiths "Southport" sounds good, as I did earlier in post #317 of this thread, and I like its almost ethereal connection to but a moment in time in British and international racing history, and an honourable if ultimately doomed driver in H. Segrave. Apparently even the sands of Southport are pretty much gone now, lending it an almost mythological quality I like as well and see as befitting somehow. But then, I'm thousands of miles away and it's a place I've never been.

    Obviously though, it's the watch itself, and the market demand it inspires, that will make or break it, not any name, or lack of it, any of us could think to give it, though I think Eddie will in the end make a good choice in that regard. Even if it goes officially nameless, somebody will probably think up a neat nickname of some kind that will stick, like the Smiths "PND" or something like it we might all use someday if this watch comes about, and I do get the impression a lot of people are looking forward to this one
    Last edited by Rollon; 9th August 2013 at 18:47. Reason: corrected mispelled word ethereal

  3. #353
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Mmmm - Smiths Pendine?

    M
    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

  4. #354
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Mmmm - Smiths Pendine?

    M
    You must be a mindreader.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  5. #355
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Mmmm - Smiths Pendine?

    M
    Pending?
    Last edited by number2; 9th August 2013 at 18:13.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  6. #356
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollon View Post
    ....... Even if it goes officially nameless, somebody will probably think up a neat nickname of some kind that will stick, like the Smiths "PND" or something like it we might all use someday if this watch comes about .........
    [PND]

    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Mmmm - Smiths Pendine?

    M
    Smiths [P]e[N][D]ine (Sands)?

    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    You must be a mindreader.

    Eddie
    As in adept at the mystical?

    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Pending?
    Smiths [P]e[N][D]ine (Sands) pending?


    Somebody's a genius here and I know it's not me

  7. #357
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    You must be a mindreader.

    Eddie
    Is your card the 6 of diamonds? No, I guess not then

    Had a holiday in Wales many moons ago and visited Pendine Sands without really knowing its history. In the library there they had "Babs", the land speed record car (I believe it was at Goodwood FOS this year) on display, so the magic of Pendine has stayed in my mind.



    It would be a great name with true heritage, a match for Daytona, IMVHO.

    M.
    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

  8. #358
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    I was going to use the Valjoux/ETA7753 for this watch but the movements are no longer available. I have, however, been offered some Lemania 1873 (Omega 861) hand-winding movements which I personally feel is an even better movement for this watch but they aren't cheap.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  9. #359
    Any chance of a clear back then?


  10. #360
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Does the Lemania 1873 have a date complication?

  11. #361
    Grand Master Foxy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    I was going to use the Valjoux/ETA7753 for this watch but the movements are no longer available. I have, however, been offered some Lemania 1873 (Omega 861) hand-winding movements which I personally feel is an even better movement for this watch but they aren't cheap.

    Eddie
    Can we donate our own movements? I have a spare Val72...

    The 861 sounds good. I'll happily pay in advance/put down a deposit.
    "A man of little significance"

  12. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Cannop View Post
    Does the Lemania 1873 have a date complication?
    No.

  13. #363
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Good.

  14. #364
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    I have, however, been offered some Lemania 1873 (Omega 861) hand-winding movements which I personally feel is an even better movement for this watch but they aren't cheap.

    Eddie
    Sounds very nice, indeed
    D

  15. #365
    Grand Master gray's Avatar
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    A big smiley - that is all
    Gray

  16. #366
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    That render is absolutely stunning, and a clear case back would be fantastic.

    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    I have, however, been offered some Lemania 1873 (Omega 861) hand-winding movements which I personally feel is an even better movement for this watch but they aren't cheap.
    Eddie
    Is this completely prohibitive Eddie or just a pain in the bum?

  17. #367
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schofie View Post
    That render is absolutely stunning, and a clear case back would be fantastic.



    Is this completely prohibitive Eddie or just a pain in the bum?
    Let's just say it would be a huge risk.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  18. #368
    Well, the Lemania 1873 is indeed a very nice movement but to keep the watch ticking you need to hand wind it everyday, this ain't very practical with a screwed-down crown.

  19. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
    Well, the Lemania 1873 is indeed a very nice movement but to keep the watch ticking you need to hand wind it everyday, this ain't very practical with a screwed-down crown.
    In my experience the problem isn't so much practicality, it's the fact that you'll wear down the threads pretty fast and end up paying for a pull out crown conversion. Had such a thing done to one of my manual winds a couple of months ago.

  20. #370
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    It doesn't have to have a screw down crown, both Zeno and Glycine achieve 300 metres WR without one.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  21. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Kutusov View Post
    In my experience the problem isn't so much practicality, it's the fact that you'll wear down the threads pretty fast and end up paying for a pull out crown conversion. Had such a thing done to one of my manual winds a couple of months ago.
    Of course, what you say is very true and that's why I prefer non screwed-down crowns with hand winding movements, nevertheless, a pull out crown can be easily turned even with your watch strapped on your wrist, definitely way more practical based on my experience.

  22. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    Let's just say it would be a huge risk.

    Eddie
    Are there any other options Eddie or is this beauty on the back burner?

  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schofie View Post
    Are there any other options Eddie or is this beauty on the back burner?
    There are always options, I could use a movement with a piggy-back chronograph module but this means that the crown and pushers aren't in line.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  24. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    There are always options, I could use a movement with a piggy-back chronograph module but this means that the crown and pushers aren't in line.

    Eddie
    Not sure about the required purchase quantities for the movement or the economies of scale involved in production but is it feasible to limit the risk of using the Lemania by producing a smaller quantity as a test, 30 or 50 for example?

  25. #375
    Master Gruntfuttock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    Bluebird is already well protected.

    Eddie
    Hi Eddie,

    speaking of protecting trademarks; I was in John Lewis at the weekend and noticed this Smiths branded clock for sale:
    Lascelles Smiths Mantel Clock, Chrome, Large
    http://www.johnlewis.com/lascelles-s...rge/p231563607

    Do they need to pay you to do this or do they have some residual right to use it without your permission?

  26. #376
    If the cost of the movement is holding the project up, would you not consider taking a deposit fro interested parties?
    I would put a deposit down if the piece had a lemania movement as am keen to see this one go to fruition

  27. #377
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntfuttock View Post
    Hi Eddie,

    speaking of protecting trademarks; I was in John Lewis at the weekend and noticed this Smiths branded clock for sale:
    Lascelles Smiths Mantel Clock, Chrome, Large
    http://www.johnlewis.com/lascelles-s...rge/p231563607

    Do they need to pay you to do this or do they have some residual right to use it without your permission?
    http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...-now-available

  28. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    I was going to use the Valjoux/ETA7753 for this watch but the movements are no longer available. I have, however, been offered some Lemania 1873 (Omega 861) hand-winding movements which I personally feel is an even better movement for this watch but they aren't cheap.

    Eddie
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
    Well, the Lemania 1873 is indeed a very nice movement but to keep the watch ticking you need to hand wind it everyday, this ain't very practical with a screwed-down crown.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kutusov View Post
    In my experience the problem isn't so much practicality, it's the fact that you'll wear down the threads pretty fast and end up paying for a pull out crown conversion. Had such a thing done to one of my manual winds a couple of months ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    It doesn't have to have a screw down crown, both Zeno and Glycine achieve 300 metres WR without one.

    Eddie
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
    Of course, what you say is very true and that's why I prefer non screwed-down crowns with hand winding movements, nevertheless, a pull out crown can be easily turned even with your watch strapped on your wrist, definitely way more practical based on my experience.
    The Lemania 1873 movement sounds great to me, at the very least in terms of prestige given it is the apparent base movement used for the post-1968 editions of the "original" Speedmaster Professional "Moon Watch" > http://www.chronomaddox.com/moonwatc...ackground.html. I assume it is extremely oustanding mechanically as well, and apparently all the early "Paul Newman" era "Cosmograph" Daytonas > http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/rol...n_daytona.html made before 1988 were manual-wind-only despite all subsequent to that date modern Daytonas being automatics, the first ones using the Zenith 400 "El Primero" mov't. I don't myself really know if the Lemania manual wind would be the most popular choice for this one, especially considering the premium level of expense it might add, but, personally, I certainly like the idea of it.

    As far as the crown goes, the very earliest "Daytonas", starting with ref.#6239, may have usually had unscrewed pushers, but apparently this and possibly all refs that commenced before 1970 had the 600 series screwed TwinLock OysterCrown. After about 1970 and commencing with ref.#6263, the full-on plexiglass crystalled OysterCase "Cosmograph" Daytonas started with screwed 700 series (i.e. 7.0mm diameter) TwinLock OysterCrowns and screwed pushers, HOWEVER, the movements apparently all still remained manual-wind-only, just as before, and remained so until about 1988 according to what I've read.

    Personally, I very much think the classic "OysterCrown" is the finest crown design of all time, and apparently fully up to dealing with the genuine rigors manual wind movements can put them too, and that would apply to both the "TwinLock" and "TripleLock" versions. I know Rolex also used these "superlative" screw-downs and their precursors for the many non-chrono/non-perpetual manual wind movement equipped Oysters they made over the many years of the company's circa late 1920s to late 1960s or 70s vintage premium tool watch past. Eddie, I think I correctly remember you yourself once commenting in a post years ago that you had an original Rolex manual wind Oyster that you used a lot without crown wear problems, and that is certainly a premium endorsement as far as I am concerned and one I've never forgotten.

    The question came up recently on another thread nearby that I commented to in the parts of the following post copied below explaining why I think the Rolex OysterCrown design, now available generically in its various versions to the same exact Rolex specifications, is very special and should not be judged by the same standards other screw-down crown unit designs are limited to:


    Quote Originally Posted by Rollon View Post
    Hi Eddie and thanks. ..................I also have great respect for your expertise and experience based views focusing on the crown as the potential weak link for a diver aggravated by the necessity to cycle it more often with an inaccurate or sporadically worn automatic not residing on an electric winder, and certainly as to a manual wind mechanical movement. I’ll add, though, that while I think quartz is great for good grade on down to beater grade surfer/divers, I have a great personal hesitancy to relegate all divers to quartz only.

    I say that because, like you, I love mechanical movement watches and marvel at them, something I think no electronic movement will ever compete with in that sense for me. I also love the technologically best in classic format diver class watches. In trying to better facilitate a mutual compatibility between the two, I’ve for years personally considered one particular crown design to be apparently best capable of addressing the type of concerns you very well delineate (except leaving it unscrewed maybe!).

    To my mind, that screw-down crown design would be the now widely and generically available in good quality replacement parts Rolex specification OysterCrown design crown/crown tube units in both the100meter rated (perhaps underrated) TwinLock and the 1200+meter rated TripleLock diver class versions. These crown designs have been extremely well proved out for many decades and are, to my knowledge, technologically peerless.

    Specifically, the OysterCrowns, as well as their identically toleranced and specificationed good quality generic duplicates, are highly maintainable and easily replaceable given that their crown tubes are of the screwed-in type, and, every bit as relevant, the primary sealing gasket of both OysterCrown designs is located at the inside top of the crown cap and bears down tightly onto the smooth top-end surface of the crown tube as the crown screws down. Given that the properly toleranced crown-to-crown tube-to-case relationship between these parts is carefully maintained during manufacture of the case as to its threaded crown tube receiving hole to assure that the crown can never “bottom out” or touch down on the case itself no matter how worn, compacted, or compressed the large primary crown cap gasket may become with several years of constant use, the WR will be maintained with a tight self-compensating primary seal until the gaskets are replaced at the next regular service. ..................... Rollon

    To make this PN Daytona superhomage, regardless of the type movement ultimately chosen for it, without the true OysterCrown design seems truly amiss, to me at least
    Last edited by Rollon; 17th October 2013 at 06:01.

  29. #379
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntfuttock View Post
    Hi Eddie,

    speaking of protecting trademarks; I was in John Lewis at the weekend and noticed this Smiths branded clock for sale:
    Lascelles Smiths Mantel Clock, Chrome, Large
    http://www.johnlewis.com/lascelles-s...rge/p231563607

    Do they need to pay you to do this or do they have some residual right to use it without your permission?
    They held a licence from Smiths and I saw no reason to stop them so I granted them a free licence for 5 years.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  30. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by omegaUK View Post
    If the cost of the movement is holding the project up, would you not consider taking a deposit fro interested parties?
    I would put a deposit down if the piece had a lemania movement as am keen to see this one go to fruition
    I don't think Eddie takes deposits, however, I hope he notes our interest in this project. The case design and the whole idea of this watch is so appealing that I would still be interested in this project even if the price goes up because of a more expensive movement.

  31. #381
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    I don't think a screwdown crown/pushers or diver-style water resistance is a must have on this watch.

    I like manual winding watches and the Lemania is a fantastic movement for which I would be willing to pay a premium.

  32. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon007 View Post
    I don't think a screwdown crown/pushers or diver-style water resistance is a must have on this watch.

    I like manual winding watches and the Lemania is a fantastic movement for which I would be willing to pay a premium.
    I had a Sinn with the Lemania 1883 movement (date and moonphase version of the 1873). Brilliant, beautiful movement, and a worthy movement to accompany the proposed design.

    It seems Eddie doesn't like display backs very much, but I'd hope he'd make an exception for this stunner. As for the name? - Smiths Chronograph.

  33. #383
    Master Saxon007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetwater View Post
    ...

    It seems Eddie doesn't like display backs very much, but I'd hope he'd make an exception for this stunner.
    Agreed! Even with the Delrin (plastic looking) brake the movement is worthy of being displayed.

  34. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    Any chance of a clear back then?

    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post

    X



    Eddie

    If the plan is to use the classic and definitive Rolex caseback "teeth" for this one, as shown in Eddie's early renders from the beginning of this thread, I don't know if a viewback is completely compatible with that if it would require a relatively quite small diameter window to be incorporated so a widely available standardized specification generic Rolex (i.e. non-custom made) caseback opener could still be used for this watch.

    I'm not well versed at all in modern Rolex and only know some about the vintage ones, but I haven't personally heard of them ever doing an Oyster viewback. Maybe they have or do, I don't myself know about it though.

    This is only my own subjective reaction to the suggestion of course, but for whatever reason, equipping this particular watch with a viewback just seems "un-right". Maybe not exactly screaming "Cheap Chinese Replica Rolex" at me, but it just doesn't strike me as right for this one. I think Eddie is at his best when he "recreates" a classic watch with upgrades (i.e. as with the PRS-5, PRS-29A, etc.) rather than "homages" it.

    However, I think having an optional viewback available, as with the aforementioned PRS-5, would still nicely cover all bases and tastes
    Last edited by Rollon; 17th October 2013 at 15:05. Reason: changed the word "Watch" to "Rolex" in the second sentence of my third paragraph

  35. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Rollon View Post
    If the plan is to use the classic and definitive Rolex caseback "teeth" for this one, as shown in Eddie's early renders from the beginning of this thread, I don't know if a viewback is completely compatible with that if it would require a relatively quite small diameter window to be incorporated so a widely available standardized specification generic Rolex (i.e. non-custom made) caseback opener could still be used for this watch.
    Personally, I'd rather have the display back. There's no need for Rolex "teeth" IMO, for the simple reason that it's not a Rolex, it's a Smiths. The further it can distance itself from the Daytona while retaining the most important features, the better.

    Also, as I'm a bit late coming into this thread I'm adding a vote for the black dial and bezel combination. The simpler the better. The only thing I'd change from the more recent designs is the "Swiss made" text cuts too far into the markers IMO, I'd prefer to see this toned down or removed from the dial entirely, again for the sake of function-first design: nothing on the dial that serves no purpose, especially if it gets in the way of something that does. I also agree with the comments about getting the hand proportions right and would prefer a no compromises approach on this one, even if that means ordering more hands than necessary and pushing the price up a bit (within reason: I'd like to be able to afford one, if it ever happens!). I like the sound of faceted hands too, regardless of dial colour.

  36. #386
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    It wouldn't have a Rolex-style back and most likely a view back.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  37. #387
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    It wouldn't have a Rolex-style back and most likely a view back.
    Cool.

  38. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    It wouldn't have a Rolex-style back and most likely a view back.

    Eddie
    Nice!

  39. #389
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    If it is to be a display back, I personally think it would come off much better if the "window" gasket for it is recessed in the same way the Speedbird III PRS-22's crystal gasket is recessed into a peripheral slot or raceway cut for it into the side walling of the crystal seat. Otherwise, the soft, squishy, and milky white synthetic material of the gasketing shows itself like a DIY repair made with silicone glue to your leaking shower's glass-to-frame sealing (I'm fine with it on the shower, hate it on a good watch).

    And it's just not the seeing of the soft/squishy/milky white gasketing encircling the glass that I personally don't like, but that, given it is critically important to maintaining the watch's water-tight integrity, it is, due the nature of the material of which it is composed, much more vulnerable to physical damage and deterioration when left exposed.

    Even if few care about the technical advantages of recessing press-fit crystal and display back window gaskets, I think most would find it adds a small but nice touch of class compared to the alternative

  40. #390
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollon View Post
    If it is to be a display back, I personally think it would come off much better if the "window" gasket for it is recessed in the same way the Speedbird III PRS-22's crystal gasket is recessed into a peripheral slot or raceway cut for it into the side walling of the crystal seat. Otherwise, the soft, squishy, and milky white synthetic material of the gasketing shows itself like a DIY repair made with silicone glue to your leaking shower's glass-to-frame sealing (I'm fine with it on the shower, hate it on a good watch).

    And it's just not the seeing of the soft/squishy/milky white gasketing encircling the glass that I personally don't like, but that, given it is critically important to maintaining the watch's water-tight integrity, it is, due the nature of the material of which it is composed, much more vulnerable to physical damage and deterioration when left exposed.

    Even if few care about the technical advantages of recessing press-fit crystal and display back window gaskets, I think most would find it adds a small but nice touch of class compared to the alternative
    If it happens, it will be amazing.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  41. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    If it happens, it will be amazing.

    Eddie
    Eddie are you saying that the watch will be amazing if it happens, or you'll be amazed if it happens because of the movement issues you're having?

  42. #392
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schofie View Post
    Eddie are you saying that the watch will be amazing if it happens, or you'll be amazed if it happens because of the movement issues you're having?
    I'm saying the watch will be amazing.



    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  43. #393
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    ^ Eddie, maybe all this time off is getting to you a bit. Thinking about boxes a lot lately doesn't seem to be working out very well either

  44. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    I'm saying the watch will be amazing.



    Eddie
    Funny, that reminded me of this older one:


    ...probably the Helena Christensen factor...

  45. #395
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    Really hoping this one happens to add to my TF stable. Are deposits the de-risked way forward..

  46. #396
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    Really hope this project gets off the ground. I like all the versions discussed here and it would be really difficult to chose if both black and white dial versions become available.

  47. #397
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wellington, NZ
    Posts
    340
    When would you be likely to make a decision on the movements? Personally I'd be happy to pay a premium for the Lemania 1873, I'm looking for a new chrono right now but if I knew this was on the cards then I'd hang-fire and wait, it looks stunning :)

  48. #398
    Craftsman Dentsmithy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Yorkshire Dales
    Posts
    533
    I would just like to add my name to those hoping this comes off.
    This. with my Speedbird and my 82 would be a fantastic trio;)

  49. #399
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Warwick UK
    Posts
    739
    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post


    Eddie
    Stop it.

    I got this far and that's enough. I'm not reading any more of the 300 and odd posts.

    Make this like this.

    It doesn't need "Chronograph" - you can see that it is
    It doesn't need "Automatic" - you'll see that it is

    Less is more

    Action speaks louder than bullsh*t (the watch in itself speaks more than a ton of facile text on the dial)

  50. #400
    Master Steve264's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sutton Coldfield, UK
    Posts
    3,226
    Can I have number 15 please Eddie?


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