Reply With QuoteInsurance companies will use anything to get out of paying. If you decide to fit a lower rating, clear it with them first.
Seeing that we are all subject to a speed limit of 70MPH is there any point in getting tyres rated at 160 MPH in my case?
Wonder re Insurance.
Last edited by BrianT; 8th November 2018 at 09:43.
Insurance companies will use anything to get out of paying. If you decide to fit a lower rating, clear it with them first.
Autobahn travel?
Track days?
Ever heard of people speeding?Originally Posted by BrianT
Also there are even in Europe, éven the UK!, bits without a speed limit.
There is a very simple way around it if you would so whish; tyres marked ´M&S´ are excempt. Be aware though that these tyres generally increase braking distance!!
A slightly more troublesome way is to have your ´car´ approved for a lower rating. This means that the DOT puts an mention on the tech specs. doc. of you car and a sticker on your speedometer; ´MAX SPEED XXX´, the XXX being the rating of your tyres.
If you fit non OEM types your insurance company will class it as a modification. Especially if you go for a lower speed rating. Also higher rated tyres (in general) perform better at all speeds, better grip, last longer etc.
Most tracks will not see cars reach extreme speeds and furthermore whatever you fit there is subject to dífferent rules; it is not public road.
Definitely a misconception akin to RON98 being better than RON95.
Most cars are nót better off with a too strong tyre carcass. This unlike using RON98 which does no harm to the car, only to the wallet.
Such carp.
When I buy a car second hand, how am I expected to know what brand of tyres were originally fitted to the car? Or if the original OEM fitment tyre is still available?
I’m not.
The tyre specs arepart of the tech specs of your car.
Like with any law you as a citizen are expected to know.
The brand is irrelevant btw and indeed with older cars it cán happen that the particular size is no longer available. In that case there is always a legal alternative with same circumferance and at least equal speed/load index. If not then the DoT will cooperate and put an alternative on your car´s papers.
Some good points raised.
Reference speeding, I would think for most speeding would still be under 100MPH. I don't drive on Autobahns or the Isle of Man. Nor do I indulge in track days.......very few do.
I only ask out of interest, my present car is only one year old with 2500 on the clock so I would estimate perishing would occur before wear became a problem.
But in fact I would never fit other then OEM for my own piece of mind.
In the real world it wont matter......But! if you have an accident and there are fatalities you are leaving yourself wide open, the brand is probably irrelevant but fitting the correct specification is down to you.
Seems a good common sense approach.
Still, there are, especially in the UK, very good piece of mind arguments for ´winter´ tyres. Just be aware of the down side for specific conditions, as you need be of the OEM choice fitted.
I've gone more than 160mph a number of times in the UK on closed tracks and more than that abroad on the public road. I once did an indicated 175mph average lap of a UK circuit in a road car on road tyres and unfortunately for you lot I'm still here, as is the car I was in. I later found the limit was 100mph but no one had told me. Essentially you have to take into account idiots like me having access to very fast cars.
It would be easier to limit cars in the UK to 70mph and maybe that will be her sooner than we think.
"A man of little significance"
The sidewalls of Pirelli Trofeo R's are so stiff that when you get a puncture they still don't go down.
Er, what? Manufacturers don't necessarily select tyres based on them being correct for your car! And even if they are, it could be for reasons that aren't with the owner in mind. For example cars being promoted for their economy might have low resistance tyres that will give better economy but the grip isn't as good as you might get from different tyres. The GT86 is as far as I know fitted with the same tyres as the Prius, on the former because they have less grip and make the car (apparently a lot) more interesting to drive and more tail happy and on the latter to give better fuel economy figures. When I replace tyres on my cars I do some research to find out what other people recommend (owners' clubs, forums etc) and then narrow it down to what those people want (for example do you want your car to have better lateral grip in the rain or better braking or whatever?). Tyres are a very personal choice but bearing in mind they're the only contact your car has with the road (and even then only a very small contact patch) you're a lot better off finding out what the best tyre is for your car for your circumstances and the way you drive than trusting a car company that may well have gone for the cheapest bulk deal for the correct size.
"A man of little significance"
My understanding is that the tyres on your car have to be suitble for the vehicle. If the car is capable of a certain speed the tyres must be rated accordingly so sticking with the original spec (size, speed rating, load rating) is the correct thing to do. However, to suggest or believe they need to be from the original supplier /manufacturer is a bit silly.
Everyone gets hung up on fuel consumption figures but no-one considers the cost of tyres. Some cars eat tyres rather quickly, and replacements can be expensive. Calculate this as cost per mile and you might not like the answer.
Rear tyres on my Jag last approx 12000-14000 miles, and cost around £150. Fronts last around 25000 miles. if my mental arithmetic’s correct that’s around 3p/mile.
Back in 1994 I had a Toyota MR2 that ate rear tyres in 8000 miles, cost was around £120 each........that was a lot in those days!
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 8th November 2018 at 10:47.
On a slight side track: I can only think of óne tyre in modern times that has become só obsolete as to almost oblige different rims. The betamax of tyres; the Michelin TRX.
For the rest there is always sóme alternative.
In some other cases (like the 185/55x15 on the MR2 mk3) the OEM dimensions/ratings have becomes scarce, limiting choice but alternative sizes with the coorect ratings are availeble.
For a long time the best tyres for a Big Healey were the same Fuldas fitted to the 924S/944 but as demand for those tyres dropped as the cars disappeared, Fulda stopped making them. Fortunately there are some very good modern classic-style tyres now available in the correct size and more importantly with the correct sidewall height! When decent performance tyres for the 14" wheels on my Mk2 MX-5 stopped being available I bought a set of 15" wheels just so I could have proper tyres. That wasn't to do with speed rating though, I wanted specific grip (wet braking in a straight line mostly) and only economy or unsuitable tyres were available.
"A man of little significance"
A very wise observation about cars in general. However hyperduper the car, thís remains the Newtonion framework of the possible. The better car/driver gets closer to the limit of this, but that is it; rubber x surface = limits.
Btw, you mentioned cheapest bulk and the GT86 to paint a context. Marketing should be added to this; most sporting image cars have way too wide (too expensive) rubber as it lóóks more sporting and makes the price uplift worthwhile for the manufacturer. Even so, a narrower legal alternative with same idex is almost always possible.
Most tyres are selected by the manufacturers based on cost, not performance, they come up the supplied chain with the wheels, they are then PPAP'd and homologated, I don't even think they are on the IDMS records for the vehicle (but I could be wrong)
Over here in Spain they are and at the ITV (MoT) they are decidedly anal about it.
That's simply not true, every public road has a speed limit in the UK
I'l clarify, OEM in relation to spec, not necessarily brand / model of tyre.
And yes you are expected to know, the tyre spec is listed in the car's owners manual, along with what pressure they should be inflated to.
Last edited by nunya; 8th November 2018 at 12:12.
Asuming that the OT has an economic motive to go for a lower speed rating I want to comment that there sometime are legal alternatives although not at the very end of the performance spectres.
Michelin per example has lots of production facilities distributed all over the world and also owns a host of different brands.
This gives them them broader access to the market without ´compromising´ the premium brand image.*
This is nót saying that the cheaper branded products are made to lower quality standards; they are nót; still ISO-whatever and true to specs.
Over here the ´Kormoran´ brand is fairly well represented. They come from the Michelin owned plant in Ostomil, Poland. The brand is fairly well reputed in truck tires and also pumps out more sporting hoops. Price wise they sell for about 2/3 of the equivalent Michelin one with same specs.
This goes for just about all of the premium brands with the added advantage that it often offers a substitute for older sizes no longer supported by the premium brand.
That btw shows the development of the latest product more than the ´lower´ quality of the sub brands. Yes, the latest products are further developed BUT... that is not always a better choice for the older car the older type was fitted on.
All in all a tricky subject with as many potential benefits as pitfalls and the average driver can best stick to OEM or an M&S variety in winter.
* in all aspects the same as with ´different´ car brands from the same company.
Isle of Man.
Oh, I hope not, I thought the 70mph was advisory
Well, it is possible that the IoM now has speed limits all over the place too. In that case I bow humbly and thank you for updating my info.
Ahh ok, I did not know that, and to be fair I was thinking mainland
Really?
I've been buying the wrong cars then. My most recent motors have had Dunlop Sport something or other, Pirelli P Zero / P6000, Goodyear Eagle F1 or Yokohama tyres at, from £150 to £200 each.
Isn't UK.
Isle of Man isn't part of the UK !!
https://www.gov.im/about-the-governm.../constitution/
Indeed, it belongs to the Crown. Like swans 🦢 ?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Thank you. I stand corrected.
I now understand the UK gvt Brexit stance about NI even less :-(
NI is the UK
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
The point being that all sorts of exceptions are acceptable if it serves the ruling powers.
IoM citizens are British yet the Isle of Man holds neither membership nor associate membership of the European Union, and lies outside the European Economic Area (EEA).
Anyway, that is off topic; my appologies.
On topic the lack of speed limit in some parts is not UK.
A tyres speed rating isn't quite as simple as that. Often tyres capable of higher acceleration, deceleration and cornering forces will also be capable of higher speeds as a result. So having a tyre rated at v (up to 149mph) doesn't necessarily mean the car is capable of those speeds, but it might require the other qualities the tyre has.
Manufacturers take these factors into account when choosing tyre fitments.
oponeo have a good summary of tyre markings and standards here...https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-articl...-tyre-markings
Ian
Sorry, but that's total bollocks... unless it was an oval in which case it's not really a 'circuit'.
There are very few UK circuits that you could even get up to 175mph in a road car (even super exotica), let alone average that.
The fastest F1 lap ever was only an average speed of 164mph (this year at Monza).
175kph, maybe.
Happy to see the video evidence, though.
It is irrelevant anyway because it is not public road and different rules apply depending on the event.
Also track/comp tyres are usually marked ´not for highway use´ regardless of specs. or profile.
Would be great fun to see the video though!
I'm screwed then. I run proper winter tyres all year round on my Cayenne!!
It's not bollocks: it was a circuit, (and still is) and it was a road car. Next...
"A man of little significance"
Now you've done it. There'll be three pages of posts about it amazing you haven't flown off the road & died yet.I'm screwed then. I run proper winter tyres all year round on my Cayenne!!
(I do too - I couldn't be bothered to swap them over this year)
Which circuit was it? Millbrook might be a candidate but that's just a circle.
I'm sorry to disappoint but it was Millbrook, and you won't believe this but 'circle' is a definition of 'circuit'. It's also heavily banked so doing a lap at 175mph on road tyres was, as I said, idiotic...
"A man of little significance"
Some car manufacturers work with tyre manufacturers to specifically develop a tyre for a particular car, BMW & Audi do this for starters on some of their more performance focused models
Most Cars have the recommended specification of the tyre including size, load and speed rating printed on a label.
Why screwed? As I wrote early in the thread, if the tyres are marked ´M&S´ you are legally ok as long as you respect the speed index of the tyre.I'm screwed then. I run proper winter tyres all year round on my Cayenne!!
The load could easily exceed thát index although raising the pressure would improve that and reduce temp.
Still both idiotic and ... well... impressive really
btw: https://twitter.com/lambopangbourne/...60955469676544
Last edited by Huertecilla; 8th November 2018 at 15:32.
The tyre sizes (and pressures) should be marked on a sticker attached to the chassis somewhere.
Any more than that? No chance. Plenty of secondhand cars are sold without a handbook.
Yeah but I did it 20 years ago...The load could easily exceed thát index although raising the pressure would improve that and reduce temp.
Still both idiotic and ... well... impressive really
btw: https://twitter.com/lambopangbourne/...60955469676544
"A man of little significance"
175mph average? Rockingham oval I presume, though I've never been there so I'm unsure as to what type of oval it is and if that kind of speed is possible.
Edit - should read the entire thread before posting! I forgot about Millbrook.
Last edited by CardShark; 8th November 2018 at 15:47.
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