A constant spread of light is indeed essential to see the road properly.
There are loads of mega bright cheap Chinese-made lights around that a lot of people use, this is probably what you're seeing.
It's not ideal for many reasons.
How the flying hell are these things legal, they’re at the right height to blind you whilst causing a seizure at the same time.
Question to the SOME of the cyclists who use them….how can you see where you're going? Ive seen loads of people using them on back roads and surely not having a constant spread of light is a bad thing considering the state of our roads?
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 23rd January 2022 at 12:17.
A constant spread of light is indeed essential to see the road properly.
There are loads of mega bright cheap Chinese-made lights around that a lot of people use, this is probably what you're seeing.
It's not ideal for many reasons.
Yes…cree LEDs are a real pain. My local running club are out in force every Tuesday night with 12 groups running the local roads. For some reason, despite running on well lit pavements they run in groups of about 10 all wearing cree LED chest straps. I’m a solo runner and it’s blinding if you come face-to-face with 10 cree lights.
They are not for seeing where we are going, they are so that you can see us.
Most rural cyclists (with any sense) would also have an additional light to see with.
Personally I use a headtorch as well as flashing LEDs.
I wouldn't bother in a city though as there is enough background light to see by
They aren't for seeing where you're going. They're very good at making you visible, sorry you've had a bad experience with them. For night riding you do need to illuminate the road in front of you in a non-flashing fashion. I use both. The flashers only when the road is visible enough but conditions have started to get a bit gloomy, or for very well lit stretches of road.
I think all those rules were dropped a while back, you could only fit flashing lights to clothing before that, but now you can fit them to the bike itself.
I use a German TüV approved LED pedelec headlight, with a very crisp beam cut off so it doesn’t dazzle other road users despite being very bright.
On the rear I use a Garmin radar light that flashes more intensely if it detects the closing car isn’t moving over to safely pass, and it lets me know too.
I get a bit annoyed by cyclists lights that dazzle though, but I understand the desire to be seen.
You're right, they're supposed to be "up to 1500mm from the ground". I do find a head torch useful personally. One good thing about using one for cycling is that if an inconsiderate driver blinds you with headlights on full beam, you can tilt your head and flash them back, much like you might in a car. Usually has the desired effect.
If you want to be visible, wearing a high vis vest is much more efficient than blinding the people you want to be visible to.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
As a cyclist a driver and motorcycle rider I can see all sides here.
During the day on my bicycle if Im riding in a group I wear a high viz gillet.
If Im riding on my own eg reduced presence, I run a flashing front and rear light all year round even in summer during the day.
If I ride at night I wear high vis and solid lights. As a rider it is horrible riding with a flashing front at night as it makes you feel ill. Additionally your vision is poor as you switch from illuminated to pitch black.
Regrettably riding a bicycle and a motorcycle is all about riding defensively. On a motorcycle you can adopt an assertive position on the road eg closer to the crown and away from the kerb because you can maintain traffic speed.
On a cycle this isnt an option so in the daylight lights and high vis are your only allies.
Addressing the op’s comments flashing front and rear lights at night is just dangerous for both parties.
As ever with threads like these there’s a anti cyclist tone, the op invites ‘cyclists’ to explain why they do this with an intimation that all cyclists do this, obviously I can’t say if this was a conscious or unconscious position.
I use a number of lights on my bikes at night I have a solid white on the front and a relatively low powered flashing light and generally a red flash on the back. There have been studies that show drivers are more adapt to notice a flashing light than a steady beam, hence cyclists using them to draw attention. That said with the led output advances it’s easy for some cyclists to use over the top outputs and / or not adjust the focus point.
Now why is it that car drivers are using hi-beam all the time and blinding cyclists then ;-)
I don’t ride in the dark any more since some idiot fractured my hip. I also avoid cycle paths & cycle lanes for the same reason (I was knocked off on the Bristol-Bath cycle path (aka the Psycho Path) by another cyclist.
However I do have a very bright flashing rear light for daytime riding. Flashing attracts attention better than constant. I also time trial and a rear daytime light is compulsory when racing. I’m not sure it has to be flashing but everybody seems to have that. Despite this there’s usually one or two deaths per year as a result of a driver ‘driving through’ the cyclist because they’re texting/on the internet/playing with the satnav at the time. In other words it’s not failsafe because it relies on the driver actually having their eyes on the road ahead at the time.
I agree with FFF that a front flashing light is useless for seeing where you’re going on a bike.
He did ask cyclists “how do you see where you are going” which is something only a cyclist could answer?
Theres no anti-cyclist undertone at all, I’m inviting SOME cyclist to answer as clearly it’s SOME cyclist who use them, they can either answer or not, its really up to them. I don't recall seeing a pedestrian walking down a dimly lit road using one. Funnily enough i see them using a good old fashion torch which emits a white solid light. I don't believe motorists are blinding cyclists intentionally, i think its modern LED tech added with auto dipping lights that are the issue. I started a thread on here probably 18-24 months ago about that very subject where i was noticing getting blinded more frequently….i wasn’t alone with that assertion.
I get that SOME cyclist need to be seen but i don’t understand the need for these massively high powered white flashing lights…other than to be seen they make no sense. They’re putting themselves at more risks of not seeing whats in front of them more that the chances of being hit from the front which is pretty stupid.
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 23rd January 2022 at 12:22. Reason: SOMEone got offended
I ride bicycles and motorbikes and I drive so can see all sides. However cyclists with lights over a 1000 lumens pointed deliberately high are a menace around here.
It is unnecessary to be seen and simply blinds drivers and pedestrians, arguably making it more dangerous. I have a front light that is 1600 lumens on full power, and I would not dream of having it that bright in the road. With streetlights I have it angled down, and flashing at 600 lumens. The full brightness is really too much even for mountain bike rides in the woods, no idea why so much power is necessary.
When I’m cycling in winter I often end up on unlit country roads with little traffic.
I often have:
A front light blinking, probably 150 lumens, it says “I’m a bike”
A 1200 lumen light to see with, although it toggles between a high and low power setting, so if there is an oncoming car I switch it to low, then back when the car has gone past.
My rear red light is on blink, but if I’m really organised I might have a fixed one too, as it’s easier for the car behind me to judge distance.
In an urban environment you only need relatively low lumen front and rear lights
D
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It's an ever escalating arms race out there with lighting.
Since cars almost never dip their lights for cyclists (or pedestrians), cyclists need brighter lights to actually see what's ahead of them.
This thread reminds me of that one years ago when the guy who bought expensive lights complained that poor people kept flashing him.
Ideally we need better regulation of the brightness of lights and ensure that auto dipping headlights work fairly for all road users.
My cycle home takes me through central London then the length of Epping Forest in the dark.
For the rear I have a hi viz backpack cover. An LED flashing on the back of my head and a fixed on under the seat post that is also a camera.
On the front I use a flashing LED light on its own until I get to Epping Forest when I turn on my Exposure Diablo in high setting so I can see the road.
In the city I think you've be safe without lights, but in the forest you need a lot of help.
Who are the easily offended?
I’m sure you wouldn’t start a post asking
Why Blacks…
Why gays…
Why Irish…
As you’ve seen already the majority of cyclists who have answered you question either don’t use such lights or do but in what sounds like a appropriate fashion.
It’s really unhelpful to group people as a whole when trying to understand behaviour
Listen the overwhelming group of people who I’ve seen using these lights are cyclists
I’m sorry you don’t understand that fact and can’t see the difference in the word cyclist when it’s used.
Clearly you think I’ve got an agenda and if so crack on, think what you want.
As for SOME cyclist using them in appropriate fashion, if they were being used in that way there’d be no need for posting.
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Well that’s clear then
The overwhelming users of bicycle lights are cyclists, thanks for clearing that up…
I’d ask you to quote where I accused you of having an agenda because I don’t thing I have I’ve simply pointed out that grouping all cyclists together is unhelpful.
There are enough responses here that show not all are using these high powered strobe lights.
Perhaps this was just meant to be a rant rather than a discussion as you don’t seem able to accept that not all cyclists are using them and that some cyclists are happy with high vis and lights and some seem to think that flashing lights have a place in there on road safety.
Let’s remember there are loads of folks out there unaware of there actions, some cycle, some drive some do both some neither…
I find if you blast them with 2000lm strobe torches they often hit a kerb and smash offending light in the crash caused, just a shame most dont have insurance..
So as you can read here I have not accused you of having an agenda, I have stated my believe that the op has a tone to it and I’m unsure if this is a conscious or unconscious position. After all you chose to group cyclists as a whole not me.
Also after pointing out that you had grouped all cyclists rather than observing that some cyclists undertook this behaviour, you response is to label some “easily offended” with a sarcastic edit tag
Though the more you rail against being challenged over the issue and wanting to know why good old hi-vis isn’t sufficient or even acknowledging that you wouldn’t start a thread talking about other groups as a whole does make me wonder if there isn’t some bias being enacted here…Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers
Last edited by Captain Morgan; 23rd January 2022 at 17:29.
Last edited by Captain Morgan; 23rd January 2022 at 18:45. Reason: Removed the swear word
And what exactly has any of that got to do with this post?
I stand by my comment that even now i still see a higher % of cyclists being idiots per user than motorists.
But seeing as you have a penchant for searching old posts you missed this one….just to show you that I’m not a fully paid up member of “ Hang the bar steward cyclists “
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...hlight=Cyclist
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 23rd January 2022 at 19:29.
I haven't read all the responses to this thread but I can imagine the comments.
Here is my 2p worth...
As a club road rider and ex-commuter I wear clothing with hi viz markers, I have a solid white light for seeing, a blinking white front and blinking red rear lights. The blinking front light isn't powerful enough to blind anyone, though the solid on light certainly is. But the point of that light is to light the road ahead so it shouldn't be blinding anyone.
I occasionally see cyclists with a blinding white front light blinking away but its a rare thing because the blinking does detract from spotting pot holes and the like. in the dark.
I will admit, someone complaining about my lights blinding them wouldn't change a thing. You've seen me and that's what matters because the alternative is an inconvenience to you but life changing for me.
I have been T boned whilst wearing one of the best hi viz commuter jackets and hope never to be hit by a vehicle again.
If you are being blinded by flashing lights have you considered it may be your eyesight. Headlights blinding me were the catalyst for visiting the optician and ultimately the starting point of me wearing glasses.
Some cyclists use stupidly bright lights and occasionally they are angled in such a way that they blind other road users. A bit like being in a small car heading towards a comparatively taller SUV with LEDs: the throw of the light makes it hazardous. It may be an eyesight thing for a few but more likely it's what I've described.
You can still be seen with a bright light aimed at the road in front of you, rather than at the eyes of whoever is approaching you.
I hope you don't mind me saying that your response, barreti, is very short sighted, pun intended. Blinding other road users makes everyone less safe.
Last edited by Bondurant; 23rd January 2022 at 21:41.
I have a 1600 lumen handlebar light, but it has a "low beam" mode that I use on the street. Full beam only in the forest, mountain biking, where you really need all that light power.
I'm not making any point about your need to see the road. I felt I made a clear point about the angle of the beam.
But maybe not.