Talk to me about Grand Seiko

[Filterlab]

Have I had a Seiko? Yes. Have I had dozens of Seikos? Yes. Never had a Grand Seiko though.

I'm lining up for a purchase to add a fourth to my trio, probably some way off, but I recently find myself eyeing up Grands on eBay and the like. Spring Drive or automatic is the way I would be going, and probably something clean and business, like this...



I've never handled one, or even seen one in the metal. So tell me, are they very good indeed?

Or do I look toward a Sinn Finanzplatzuhr?

[Papa Hotel]

Grand Seiko is a renowned luxury watch brand that originated in Japan. It was first introduced by Seiko in 1960 as a high-end line aimed at competing with the best Swiss watches. Here are some key points about Grand Seiko:

Craftsmanship and Quality: Grand Seiko watches are celebrated for their exceptional craftsmanship and attention to detail. They are handcrafted by skilled artisans and feature high-quality materials and advanced technology.

Spring Drive Movement: One of Grand Seiko's signature innovations is the Spring Drive movement. This hybrid mechanism combines the precision of quartz with the beauty and complexity of mechanical movement, resulting in a smooth, gliding second hand.

Design Philosophy: Grand Seiko watches are known for their elegant and understated designs. They often feature minimalist dials with a focus on legibility and aesthetics. The "Zaratsu" polishing technique used on the cases and hands gives them a mirror-like finish.

Collections: Grand Seiko offers several collections, including the Heritage, Elegance, and Sport series. Each collection has its distinct characteristics, catering to different tastes and preferences.

Accuracy and Precision: Grand Seiko is committed to precision. Their mechanical watches are rigorously tested to ensure they meet strict accuracy standards, often surpassing those of Swiss chronometers.

Innovation and Tradition: While Grand Seiko embraces modern technology and innovation, it also maintains a deep respect for traditional watchmaking techniques. This blend of old and new is a hallmark of the brand.

Overall, Grand Seiko stands out in the luxury watch market for its dedication to excellence, innovation, and timeless design.

[Filterlab]

Thanks for the overview. Have you owned one?

[markbannister]

I've had three and not kept one yet. All lovely things so not quite sure why.

White dial 37 mm automatic, can't remember the reference, on the thick side I seem to remember.

SBGX261 37 mm black dial quartz
SBGN027 40 mm black dial quartz GMT

[Derivative]

My experience with them is limited to visits to the boutique in Bond Street.
They are beautiful in the metal, tend to be reasonably sized, and are wonderfully finished.

I particularly like the recent decision to migrate the power reserve on Spring Drive models from the dial to the movement on the back - makes for cleaner and more attractive dials in my view.

I've often browsed C24 for Grand Seikos, and find that used ones from Japan tend to be good value even with the 20% VAT import hit. Probably because of the weak Yen. Yahoo Japan Auctions through Buyee is another good shopping option.

Haven't gone for one yet but I have no doubts I will in the near future.

[Guido-K]

I currently own 2 (both quartz), an SBGX009:

With a 9F61 (no date) movement.

And an SBGX069 (Titanium):

With a 9F62 (date) movement.

Fit and finish is impeccable (GS have a wonderful way they play polished surfaces against brushed).

If I had to pick one thing about them, it would be the polishing on the hands and indices (the way they catch and play with light is mesmerising IMHO).

[LukeBird]

Have bought 3, 2 from Knightsbridge boutique and one from the US (a special edition only available there); I have 2 left.
I have the SBGT241 Limited Edition quartz, a watch I wasn't sure on until I saw it in London and just had to have one, I bought the GMT LE that followed but never quite clicked with it and moved it on a little while later. The Spring Drive I bought from the US is fab as well, but the quartz is definitely the one I'd keep.
As an overall the dials, indices and hands are exquisite, certainly a big step up compared to a lot of the Swiss stuff, the movements in the SD and quartz are genuinely something different, particularly SD.
I could never rule out another, definitely a brand that hugely appeals to me. If you were closer, I'd be more than happy to let you try them on.
My friend Olli (O N Atelier) was very impressed under the microscope and it was equally impressive to see the attention to detail.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Ive had mine for a few months now and got to say that i think it’ll likely be my last major watch purchase.
The dials are fabulous and tbh im more than happy with the bracelet despite everyone not liking them.

Bought the wife a shunbun also at the same time and she prefers it to any of her OP’s shes had over the years

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[Papa Hotel]

Thanks for the overview. Have you owned one?

Yeah. They're too perfect, to the point of being boring.

[Filterlab]

Thanks chaps for the input so far. Interesting to hear first hand from owners.

Franky, what model reference is yours and are there other dial colours in the range?

[dustybottoms]

I own a SBGP017. Beautiful watch, very comfortable to wear, the finishing is superb.

It is probably the watch in my collection that gets the most compliments from mates who are in to watches. People who love watches, know exactly what it is, and where it stands in the luxury watch hierarchy. They love it for the understated presence and quality, as do I.

[theancientmariner]

Yeah. They're too perfect, to the point of being boring.

I get that analogy. In a way they're the perfect watch for walking through the centre of London. The quality is as good as anything out there but they don't shout, they're just subtly fabulous. No one is going to notice them from a distance like they would a Rolex, Patek or AP which in many ways is a good thing. Once you see one up close and see the detail and quality of finish you start to understand them.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Thanks chaps for the input so far. Interesting to hear first hand from owners.

Franky, what model reference is yours and are there other dial colours in the range?

The model ref is SBGH335.
It was a limited run of 200 watches made for WOS ( they do a few limited models) also available in a purple dial which is also quite nice and limited to 200 watches. There is also a black dialled model that isn't limited

https://www.watches-of-switzerland.c...F22YgZv41B6WN8

https://www.watches-of-switzerland.c...A1Vbby-ZoWsCEM

https://www.watches-of-switzerland.c...333/p/18400537

[xellos99]

they have very good hands, dials, indices, movements and finishing

they have average bracelets and clasps

I prefer the LX line myself, its near to GS but i prefer the designs

[mk1974]

The bracelets are a let down,not much better than a standard seiko .


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[robert75]

Is there any real benefit getting a spring drive one over an automatic or even hand wind GS?

[xellos99]

Is there any real benefit getting a spring drive one over an automatic or even hand wind GS?

is there any real benefit getting any mechanical over their HAQ, its personal preference for what you want in a watch that price.

if spring drive does not capture your interest or imagination then i doubt very much its worth it for you.

i was super interested and keen to get a spring drive and loved the whole idea of it.

[helidoc]

I admired GS for years, but only got my first 8 months ago and recently added another. I think they are my favourite brand.

I remember watching a video by Tim Mosso on the Snowflake and some of his reasons to like GS resonated with me:

You are contrarian
You can geek out on the horological details

Originally I was interested in the mechanicals, curious about Spring Drive, not interested in quartz, but having looked at what the 9F quartz movement is, I find myself having 2 quartz







My GMT has the best case finishing of any watch I own, and by some margin. It has the best dial and hand work outside of my bespoke Dornbluth. I even like the bracelet, easy to get a great fit, and a discrete clasp you might appreciate after you enormous Sinn clasp ;)

I spent some of my day off on Tuesday looking at some, not that I need another. With most brands, I like 1-2 watches they make, with GS every one I tried was great, all of them.

I would like a Spring drive as some point, but not sure they have made the one for me. Loved the SLGA009 White birch, but strongly disliked the 22mm bracelet of the Evo 9 with their minimal taper. Shunbun is excellent, but not my ideal dial colour. I know it isn’t Spring drive, but the SBGM221 was beautiful.

I bought my GMT cheap from Japan, and with the weak Yen, prices are very compelling. I’ve bought from Japan twice, and would do so again.
An SLGA009 is £4650 plus 20% and the SBGM221 is 2940 plus 20%

Dave


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[j4ckal]

I bought my GMT cheap from Japan, and with the weak Yen, prices are very compelling. I’ve bought from Japan twice, and would do so again.
An SLGA009 is £4650 plus 20% and the SBGM221 is 2940 plus 20%

Dave


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Any particular dealer from Japan you would recommend Dave?
It's been a long time since I ordered from overseas.
Cracking quartz duo there too.

Cheers.

[helidoc]

Any particular dealer from Japan you would recommend Dave?
It's been a long time since I ordered from overseas.
Cracking quartz duo there too.

Cheers.

There is some information in this thread.

I would be happy to use any of the large dealers on Chrono24

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ecommendations

Dave


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[verv]

Yeah. They're too perfect, to the point of being boring.

That sums them up for me too.
Had a few, gmt, lion, sbgk005, all lasted about 5 minutes.
The only one I still have is the snowflake.

[j4ckal]

There is some information in this thread.

I would be happy to use any of the large dealers on Chrono24

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...ecommendations

Dave


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Nice one, thanks for the link.
Interested in a Snowflake, will check out what they work out at.

[earlofsodbury]

Yours is far and away the best-looking GS I have ever set eyes on - the colour and guilloche are both exquisite!

Ive had mine for a few months now and got to say that i think it’ll likely be my last major watch purchase.
The dials are fabulous and tbh im more than happy with the bracelet despite everyone not liking them.

[threescoops]

I’ve got two GS: a Snowflake (SBGA211) and a limited edition 9F GMT (SBGN001).





One of the things that even Grand Seiko themselves seem to struggle with is to get across just how well finished and interesting the case, hands, indices and dials are day to day. A photo is one thing, but when the light catches any of the GS I’ve handled there’s more going on. The fuss about their dials is certainly warranted.
I’ve not spent much time with many “clean and business” models.
I’d suggest getting hands on with models you’re interested in and probably some you’re not and see what jumps out - the GS range is huge (possibly to a fault).

I find both the models I have sit very comfortably on the wrist; the bracelets do constantly get stick, but I’m with Dave/Helidoc, it’s pretty straightforward to get a good fit, but most models don’t have any micro adjust and certainly no on-the-fly adjustment. On the other side, the bracelets are unobtrusive and suit the aesthetic of the dressier models.

I bought my GS in order to get something other than an automatic and something a bit more interesting (but didn’t fancy going for a high beat) and so the Spring Drive (with the bonus of the Snowflake being a titanium case plus a lovely dial) ticked a lot of boxes for me.

It’s also a nice bonus for me to have two GS that are very accurate: +/- 1 second a day for the Spring Drive (although it’s generally better than that) and a worst case of +/- 5 seconds a year for the limited edition 9F (currently basically spot on).

You’ll obviously need to decide which model and movement combos, if any work for you.

[Slamdoor]

I have the spring drive Skyflake and the Lake Suwa which is the 5 day version with power display on the back. Superb quality except for the bracelet but it’s so easy to put on I don’t care. You won’t find better dials than GS but you need to be picky as many look very similar. Timekeeping on the spring drives about a second a month ime. Prices creeping up though and the latest handwound movement due August is over 10K.

[gcleminson]

I've had this one for 5 years now. Knew the second I saw it announced that it ticked all the right boxes for me, where the classic Snowflake I'd tried on at a boutique previously had left me rather underwhelmed - felt like something was missing, and the case size was a little too large for my tastes.

I bought the SBGA415 without having first seen it in the flesh, and have had absolutely no regrets. It manages to straddle both sporty and dress in the same way a lot of the JLC models do, and feels a class act on the wrist.

[Filterlab]

Wow, superb info. Thanks chaps. Gives me loads of directions to head in. Franky's GS is superb, love the dial. I saw the black one too and that's equally as impressive. I must see one in the metal.

[MartynJC (UK)]

Grand Seiko is a renowned luxury watch brand that originated in Japan. It was first introduced by Seiko in 1960 as a high-end line aimed at competing with the best Swiss watches. Here are some key points about Grand Seiko:

Craftsmanship and Quality: Grand Seiko watches are celebrated for their exceptional craftsmanship and attention to detail. They are handcrafted by skilled artisans and feature high-quality materials and advanced technology.

Spring Drive Movement: One of Grand Seiko's signature innovations is the Spring Drive movement. This hybrid mechanism combines the precision of quartz with the beauty and complexity of mechanical movement, resulting in a smooth, gliding second hand.

Design Philosophy: Grand Seiko watches are known for their elegant and understated designs. They often feature minimalist dials with a focus on legibility and aesthetics. The "Zaratsu" polishing technique used on the cases and hands gives them a mirror-like finish.

Collections: Grand Seiko offers several collections, including the Heritage, Elegance, and Sport series. Each collection has its distinct characteristics, catering to different tastes and preferences.

Accuracy and Precision: Grand Seiko is committed to precision. Their mechanical watches are rigorously tested to ensure they meet strict accuracy standards, often surpassing those of Swiss chronometers.

Innovation and Tradition: While Grand Seiko embraces modern technology and innovation, it also maintains a deep respect for traditional watchmaking techniques. This blend of old and new is a hallmark of the brand.

Overall, Grand Seiko stands out in the luxury watch market for its dedication to excellence, innovation, and timeless design.

is that chatGBT (whatever it’s called)?

[Filterlab]

is that chatGBT (whatever it’s called)?

I did wonder. Or a copy and paste job. But useful info nonetheless.

[LukeBird]

I've had this one for 5 years now. Knew the second I saw it announced that it ticked all the right boxes for me, where the classic Snowflake I'd tried on at a boutique previously had left me rather underwhelmed - felt like something was missing, and the case size was a little too large for my tastes.

I bought the SBGA415 without having first seen it in the flesh, and have had absolutely no regrets. It manages to straddle both sporty and dress in the same way a lot of the JLC models do, and feels a class act on the wrist.
<photo removed>

Cracking photo, the Shunbun was a close call for me when I ordered my Soko Shadow, but it was just a little big for me. Plus talk about buying into the marketing, but I'd not long come back from Japan and had visited the bamboo forest near Kyoto that inspired the Soko... ridiculous, but hey there's no logic to this!

Funnily enough I had exactly the same thoughts over the Snowflake, magnificent dial but the rest didn't much do it for me and again it's rather large. I tried on the blue Snowflake in Tokyo and was much more impressed.

[Kingstepper]

It’s a Seiko but grander.

[Papa Hotel]

is that chatGBT (whatever it’s called)?

Yeah, I asked Chat GPT to talk to me about Grand Seiko.

[ryanb741]

This is worth a look so you can see where Grand Seiko focuses their workmanship

[Filterlab]

This is worth a look so you can see where Grand Seiko focuses their workmanship

Whoa! Now that's some workmanship.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

This is worth a look so you can see where Grand Seiko focuses their workmanship

Nobody, well almost nobody looks at stuff in that detail.

[noTAGlove]

Whoa! Now that's some workmanship.

If only they put 1/100th of the effort into their bracelets.

[julian2002]

If Grand Seiko are a little staid for your tastes there’s always Minase, apparently similar quality but slightly madder designs.

[ryanb741]

If Grand Seiko are a little staid for your tastes there’s always Minase, apparently similar quality but slightly madder designs.

I've owned a Minase. The casework and polishing is superior to Grand Seiko and the bracelet (on the Divido I owned) is superior to anything Rolex/Omega do. However Minase have Sellita movements which lets them down.

Minase's history is partly based on manufacturing polishing machines for watches - they started making watches as a means to showcasing their machines so naturally the complexity and finishing of their cases and bracelets is fab. The Minase Divido bracelet isn't inferior to that on the Royal Oak for example, but then again it costs around £1800 for that bracelet alone which is much more expensive than a SS Rolex/Omega bracelet and I'd imagine isn't much less than the far more famous AP charges for their bracelet.

I'd have another Divido as a one and done any day although the styling is a bit avant garde and not for many.

Here's an article on the Divido from Fratello - the Divido has been updated since this article with a better decorated movement and a slightly different dial layout.

https://www.fratellowatches.com/hand...minase-divido/

[ALindsay]

If only they put 1/100th of the effort into their bracelets.

Agreed 100%


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[ryanb741]

It's swings and roundabouts though. You could just as easily say if only Rolex put the same effort into their dial and cases as they do their bracelets.

At the end of the day a GS is Rolex-level quality. It is superior to Rolex when it comes to dialwork and case finishing (and arguably movements) and inferior to Rolex when it comes to bracelets and in particular clasps. Design is up to the individual - beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say.

Thing is, they used to be a lot cheaper than Rolexes but now on a like for like basis they are the same price or even more expensive at RRP so they don't represent great value any more at UK prices which is why you need to buy them from Japan.

[noTAGlove]

Thing is, they used to be a lot cheaper than Rolexes but now on a like for like basis they are the same price or even more expensive at RRP so they don't represent great value any more at UK prices which is why you need to buy them from Japan.

You could argue that if the fit and finish is better than Rolex, GS offer better value.

But we all know the reason they don’t offer good value is they depreciate like an anvil off a cliff.

[ryanb741]

You could argue that if the fit and finish is better than Rolex, GS offer better value.

But we all know the reason they don’t offer good value is they depreciate like an anvil off a cliff.

Which is why you buy pre owned or from Japan - then they are decent value.

[zelig]

Which is why you buy pre owned or from Japan - then they are decent value.

Exactly what I did with this ...



Condition was described as 'fair'... which was underselling it somewhat.

z

[Shuggy#1]

You could argue that if the fit and finish is better than Rolex, GS offer better value.

But we all know the reason they don’t offer good value is they depreciate like an anvil off a cliff.

Is that not the case with most brands depreciating ?.

[Sinnlover]

Which is why you buy pre owned or from Japan - then they are decent value.

I would definitely give it a try if I knew how too.
Is there an idiots guide anywhere? Or good site to have a look at?

[Papa Hotel]

I would definitely give it a try if I knew how too.
Is there an idiots guide anywhere? Or good site to have a look at?

I got mine from Chrono24.

[zelig]

I would definitely give it a try if I knew how too.
Is there an idiots guide anywhere? Or good site to have a look at?

I’ve used these a few times

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/

this dealer

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/dealer/kyotoya78/index.htm

z

[Sinnlover]

Fair enough I will take a look
Thanks

[ryanb741]

Also Omicron watch on c24 are good as well.

Factor in 20% VAT of course

[Rocket Man]

My favourite brand. I have three: Snowflake from the heritage collection with a Spring Drive movement, SBGN003 from the sports collection with a 9F quartz movement and a mechanical SBGM221 from the Elegance collection. The hands are my favourite feature, better finished than any others I've seen. I admire how the different movements and collections are treated with the same attention to detail and quality of finishing. I could be very content with these three (and a g shock).