If I didn’t buy the Model 3 brand new I think I’d be in an S alreadyOriginally Posted by Longblackcoat
My friend has a 2016 and has lots of problems but the sunroof alone puts it in a different league IMO.
Purely on the driving experience (and the fact that in the main the cars are reliable) I'd be happy with a, say, 2020 Model S vs a new 3. The suspension's a lot better and I really don't care about the speed or handling. Plus the the depreciation on the S will be lower so it makes more sense for a car that you're going to own for perhaps three years.
I absolutely detest Elon Musk, however, so until departs the company I'll not be buying a Tesla!
Too salty price wise and if I decide to take the long way to work - across the Dublin mountains, sally gap to Dublin I wouldn't have enough charge to get home again. Maybe when the sodium batteries take off.
The Energica's look nicer though.
My soul is with the Guzzi.
Firstly many thanks to you and all for your kind words.
So, the Model 3 is a great car and my Performance model was brutal. 3 happy years, no issues and it made me smile everyday I drove it. But, quality was shocking in places, a looker it ain’t and ride was jarring at best.
My circumstances are such that I have not had a car in the last seven months, sharing wifeys new MSport 1 Series but my new co is taking off and I need a car once again.
Getting back in an EV was a no brainier for me. Using an ICE car again has been tiresome and it is a massive step back, 200 miles to York and then back last weekend proved this even more. Unless you have spent time in an EV you simply won’t get this.
So to answer ya question. After 140 mile drive home on Thursday, a 160 mile round trip to Cambridge yesterday and the cars are night and day and I could not be happier with my decision to buy an older S. No, it’s not as brutally quick as the M3P but it has enough poke for me. In almost every other way it is just simple class, the looks and a far far nicer place to sit. The ultra white vegan even feels thicker in the S over the same in my 3.
Downsides - MCU1 is a little laggy but I will replace, the car doesn’t unlock and wake up on approaching it, this maybe just me and the previous owner had a dog so it is a bit stinky but again I can sort that. And I am sure there will be some unexpected bills.
The 100D seems more economical than the 3. 260 wh/mile yesterday but I think the environment makes me more relaxed and less urgent.
I cannot thank Martin enough on here who reached out when I was muting the purchase. You have been a fantastic help, thank you buddy.
To conclude, having thought this through a lot over many weeks the S is a nicer car than the 3 for me. I probably will also have another, it is proving so far probably the nicest car I have driven.
Pitch
Looks fab Pitch, I shall look out for you wafting around east anglia.
I came close to buying an 85D a couple of years ago, Tesla had a few in with warranties etc, but I couldn’t make the time to sort a test drive so ended up chopping the ID.3 in for the ID.4 (I needed something larger). 260 wh/mile (3.8 miles per kWh) is pretty good for such a large car, that’s 350+ miles of range by my maths?
I think 360PS is plenty in such a car, and really pleased you’re enjoying it so much. :-)
Cheers Tooks, we may head up to Stamford for a visit this weekend, any excuse to get out in the MS
I can’t get a deffo figure on the power, it feels way quicker than 360ps (wifey’s Golf R’s @ 300bhp where nowhere near as rapid). I’ve read 400 and something, 500 and something and EV database suggests 600 based on kw to bhp. It’s suggested 0-60 is 4.2 which is a second slower than my M3P and I can notice that, but rolling it doesn’t feel slower.
Cheers
Pitch
Predicted on my last 30 miles yesterday, DC and A roads.
Pretty happy with that.
Pitch
Update on the Mach-E, 1500 miles in. I got this because it was (a) immediately available (b) really cheap (a net monthly cost of £350 all-in). I was going to get a Nissan Ariya but that turned out to have a 6-9 month waiting list, so I got this without a test drive on the basis that it's a three year lease and I don't really have to love it!
Good news - everything works, the range has settled down to an honest 340 miles based on my usage, pretty much all of the electronics 'aids' can be turned off (and stay off), it's quiet/refined/fast. The 360 degree cameras are excellent and the driver interface has zero lag. The sound system is good as well. It's really well-made; fit and finish is the best I've ever seen on a Ford, albeit mine is in a lairy colour than still makes me wince a bit.
Bad news - it's not really all that much fun to drive; it reminds me very much of a Lexus LS400, which in many respects was better than the Mercedes S-Class it aped but felt sterile. The brakes are massively over-assisted and remind me of a Citroen CX; breathe on them and you stand the car on its nose. Final negative is that the ride when I got it was terrible; the front tyres were at 36psi and the rears at 40psi; dropping to 32/36 improves hugely, though it's still firmer than I'd like.
Would I buy one with my own money? It's not a car you fall in love with, but so long as the price was right - and bear in mind you can now buy a 72 plate for c.£20k - then you could absolutely do worse.
From where?
You're right - I should have said 71 plate rather than 72. There are loads on AT for early £20s, none of which are exactly flying out of the showrooms, so a bit of a haggle and you're there for £20k. For what it is - a large, fast, well-equipped car that's cheap to run* - that's a bit of a bargain.
*If you can get reasonably priced insurance, that is
Is this your first ev? Just wondering if the brakes feeling is more regen maybe?
What’s the insurance like on these?
What warranty do you get just the standard 3?
Absolutely no idea I’m afraid - it’s on an all-inclusive lease!
No, it’s my second EV - the brakes are less wooden than on my Nissan, just hugely overly assisted.
Interesting to see what the realistic range is on this new BYD PHEV that they claim does 1500 miles on a single charge/tank - not because I'm interested in the car itself but what it says about their technology platform.
I'm more and more wanting to get a car through my work's company salary sacrifice scheme. It seems very tax efficient and the prices seem depreciation beating.
They have some amazing deals on the Nissan Ariya, Lexus RZ450e, Jaguar iPace and Mercedes EQA.
Currently I'm in a 2000 Tesla Model 3, which I adore and my only complaint being that as a family of 4+dog, it's a bit small. I'd like to be back in an SUV.
The Jag is out, it's too expensive at £612 net a month. The EQA wasn't very nice inside quickly. For £450 net a month I can get the top of the range Ariya or the bottom of the range Lexus. Both big and fast, the Ariya has more range but the Lexus feels MUCH more premium.
I test drove the Lexus but it was very wallowy in the corners, but then I'm comparing it to the very planted Model 3. Wife simply didn't like the drive. Which leaves me with the Ariya. Does anyone own one?
I tried to get an Ariya but there was a huge waitlist. Very much liked it when I test drove the car, though try to abode the big wheels as it makes the car very crashy. I ended up with a Mustang Mach-E as (a) cheap (b) available (c) nice to drive.
Nissan Leafs are a bargain at the minute. This one is £15k and interest free over four years
£1750 deposit and £290 a month (£93 payment and £187 put aside for the final payment) over four years and you will own it outright.
That’s got to be ultra cheap motoring.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406180854509
Theres some really good prices now across a wide range of manufacturers….seems like a good time to get onboard
Used Jaguar ipace are the buy now in my opinion.
19k gets you a top spec 20 plate with 40k on the clock.
Absolute bargain, these were 70k cars when new and the range is 300 miles.
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Yes, but it’s a Jaguar and that’s probably putting most people off.
That’s a mad deal. Hand it back after four years.
Thanks for sharing.
Pitch
That is a crazy good deal.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
The way I read it the finance deal wasn’t actually available on that car. If you wanted finance it would be at 9.9% and no manufacturers contribution, not the 0% and £2.5k contribution in the example finance.
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Is the insurance daft on these?
It does say that but then the finance gumpf quotes the figures.
Pitch
I suspect the finance stuff is all automated and therefore they wrote in the ad to ignore that
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I'm 3 months in on the ownership on Audi Q4 E Tron 45, having previous owned Discoveries and Lexus I was dubious of going full electric. To be honest I'm really enjoying it. The range is plus 300 miles with a little care. Stacks of tech if that's your thing. I've turned as much off as I can, but it keeps rebooting. Handles great and as you'd expect very quiet. Great sound system. I think I'm converted.
Last edited by wildheart; 19th June 2024 at 13:14.
2k I’ve been quoted, so not the cheapest.
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I did have a look myself and cheapest was £660 with Admiral, few around £700 but most ~£2000 and some way more.
Read 2 articles in the Toronto Star paper. Both based on the Hyundai Ioniq model
First. Owners battery died a few months or so after warranty and Hyundai wanted $40,000 to replace it. Customer didn't think it was worth and junked it. Hyundai reached out a short while after to work out a deal, but too late
Second. Customer took the same model in as it wasn't running right. Was told he must have ran over something and damaged the batter pack. $50,000 to replace and that jumped to $60,000 when insurance company got involved. Car junked.
Better overall to lease rather than own
Can only wonder when EV's are the norm and battery packs need to be replaced. Manufactures will gouge consumers on replacements, but I'm sure a whole new industry will arise in replacement battery packs at lower prices, but not low enough.
I figure I got 2 cars left in me and neither will be EV
Next maybe a Toyota Rav4
how much is an Ioniq in canada, 50-60k to replace the battery seems very far fetched.
I’d be curious which Ioniq that is - the original was released 2017 and they currently offer 8 year battery warranties.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Im also curious to know if those figures are actually real or just like the other EV battery horror stories we hear about where the price to replace the battery is wildly inflated.
Main Dealers have always tried to pull drivers pants down, it’s not new.
My few months old Audi A2 got a damaged floor from a broken speed hump, that let water in and it fried the ECU. Audi wanted £4k for a new ECU and estimated £2k+ to repair the aluminium floor, on a car that cost me £16.5k new. That was back in 2001, so a long time ago.
Can I imagine that a damaged brand new Hyundai Ioniq EV could incur a $60k Canadian cost (£34k) to repair the damage to the vehicle itself, the cooling system and battery? Yes, I can.
New replacement IC engines aren’t cheap either, especially once you get above 4 cylinders.
Like with my Audi A2 though, where independent garages repaired the ECU and floor pan for a fraction of the cost the main dealer quoted, there will be other options going forward.
Otherwise, EV battery warranties are long, albeit they don’t cover accident damage or careless use like driving through deep floods etc, the repair and replacement cost being insurance quotes which will always be high.
The insurance repair costs for that damaged Ioniq have become the concrete myth and legend now though, forever more a replacement EV battery will be “$60k”.
Technology progresses.
My current PHEV is 200kg more than the ice equivalent and does around 20 miles electric.
The newly announced replacement again weighs 200kg more but does around 45 miles electric.
It won’t be long before ranges begin to settle around the 400 mile mark.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Re-checked the article.
Can can range from $57,000 - $80,000 - Ioniq 5
$30,000 to replace
Hsu brought his 2022 Ioniq 5 to the dealer because he felt it wasn’t working properly. Noting, during their diagnosis, that some seemingly minor damage to the protective cover on the underside of the battery pack concealed evidence of an impact to it and its cooling system, the dealer’s technicians determined Hsu had run over something. Consequently, the battery’s warranty did not apply and was voided.
Hsu’s initial repair estimate of around $30,000 quickly mushroomed to $60,000 once he involved his insurer,
Toronto Star link
https://www.thestar.com/life/autos/w...1a4c9e4bd.html
So he damaged it?
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Isn’t it really a story about main dealer pricing and insurance cost inflation?
With EV battery wholesale pricing running at around $206 CAN per kWh, even a 90kWh pack is nowhere near $30k never mind $60k.
Dealers will charge what they can charge, but there would have been some repairs to at least the battery coolant system on top of the battery replacement by the sounds of it, plus the dealers labour charges. Main dealer mentality is to replace not repair as well, damaged cells can be replaced rather than the whole pack, but dealers don’t have the kit, skills or inclination to fix stuff. They’re parts fitters.
It’s a sorry tale alright, don’t get me wrong, but isn’t typical of an EV ownership experience any more than somebody trashing an in-line 6 cylinder engine bending a rod going through a flooded ford and presenting at the dealership with a misfire, for example. That would be expensive to put right as well.
Replacement battery pack prices for various EVs are starting to emerge now, particularly Teslas as they run out of battery warranty, and it’s more like £10-20k depending on the pack required. That’s getting cheaper all the time as well, especially as used Teslas with good batteries and a warranty are now found for £20k easily enough.
Speed bump, a pot hole or run of the mill protestor. Don't know what he ran over. I don't think the damage is the main part of the story.
It's the $30K Canadian or £17,202.69 replacement cost of a battery and double when insurance involved. Even if it need to be replaced from use. Would it still be the price?
Simple answer is no; battery packs contain many cells which can be individually replaced rather than junk the whole thing.
I was chatting to a guy today who buys 40kwhr E-nv200 vans for £5k to put the battery pack into 24kwhr combis or Evalias and charges £5k to do it then sells off the rest of the van parts for his profit
So he’s updating vehicles with a newer, larger battery pack for £5k.
Only insurance companies will pay top money for these things, most people will find a cheaper solution.
It depends on the EV and the battery it would require.
Tesla are the only EVs in numbers to be 8+ years old and well over battery warranty replacement mileages. £17k would be plausible for a brand new pack, £34k not so much.
Battery packs can be refurbished/repaired for a lot less than that, companies here in the UK quoting £5-6k ton refurb a Tesla M3 pack, for example.
My Model S has been in for a MCU2 upgrade and I have driven the new highlander model 3 SR and an unccorked previous model 3 LR in the past two days.
Firstly the new Model 3 is a really nice improvement on what was a great car. The lack of stalks was so easy to get the hang of and actually really nice.
The LR I had overnight with the Performance upgrade was a blast and I don’t think that much slower than a full blown performance.
But, it was really really nice to get back in the Model S it is such a more relaxed and quality place to sit. I would liken the 3 to a terrier just wanting to go and bouncing about all the time and the S a big lazy mutt but when you poke it, it will growl and bite, my 100D is quick motor.
Pitch.
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