CUSTOMS & EXCISE ?!?!

[3170]

What do you guys do about customs & excise ?

I’m in the U.K and just bought what was initially a bargain from the U.S.

I paid $45 (£29) for a watch. It now transpires that I have to pay an additional fee of almost £14 out of my pocket – to this stinking system. [over £5 Vat plus £8 Post Office – so called ‘handling fee’ !?]

As a retired & disabled private individual, I hadn’t realised what another rip-off scheme that our government were running.

A private individual colleague in the states wants to sell an item to a friend in the U.K. It has nothing to do with either government. The governments are not party to the financing, service, licensing, personal needs of the transaction – but they want to make me pay an extra £14 for doing bugger all. This is on top of taxing all my monies before I even get it (actually I do agree on some sort of income tax – another story). That’s 50% of the value of the item !

Obviously the seller didn’t want to break the law by saying anything wrong on the customs slip,,,,, but this is a complete rip off IMHO.

,,,,,,,,,, right,,, I can breathe again now,,,,,,,,,

[Jonmurgie]

Sadly that's just the way it is... I've had a couple of things come over that have not been stung by VAT/DUTY and I think the level they don't charge is something like $36. It's not the VAT or DUTY that bothers me that much, it's the Handling Charge! I mean, your parcel with £5 VAT I guess you could live with, but then having an £8 fee on top for the pleasure is pants.

Got a pricy watch on it's way from the states soon (Ocean7 LM-7) and am wonder what to do there as I do have people in Florida who can ship it over to the UK in a bigger parcel, but then I'll have to pay the Florida State Tax (8% I believe)... and with the $ to £ price now being a bit hammered things aren't as worth buying from the states :(

[VinceR]

Guess you've learned the hard way about our 'friends' at HM Customs & Excise, but if anything is valued over £7 then you'll be charged VAT/duties not only on the value of the item, but also the shipping costs! The general rules:

The value for VAT of imported goods is their customs value, determined according to the customs rules described in Notice 252: Valuation of imported goods for customs purposes, VAT and trade statistics, plus, if not already included in the price:

* all incidental expenses such as commission, packing, transport and insurance costs incurred up to the goods’ first destination in the UK; plus
* all such incidental expenses where they result from transport to a further place of destination in the EC if that place is known at the time of importation; plus
* any customs duty or levy payable on importation into the UK; plus
* any excise duty or other charges payable on importation into the UK (except the VAT itself).

The full guide can be read here ..

[andrew]

What do you guys do about customs & excise ?

Try to avoid (rather than evade) their charges as legally as possible.

I’m in the U.K and just bought what was initially a bargain from the U.S.

I paid $45 (£29) for a watch. It now transpires that I have to pay an additional fee of almost £14 out of my pocket – to this stinking system. [over £5 Vat plus £8 Post Office – so called ‘handling fee’ !?]

The VAT you can argue about, but is the basis of every indirect taxation system in the EU. In the whole of the OECD, actually, except the US, where you have to remit tax to the state at the end of the period (so, easier to evade). The handling fee... well, assuming you assessed the risk properly you would have realised than on a very low-value item the handling fee is proportionally a big deal. On e.g. a Rolex where you might have saved £5-600 when the rate was 2:1, it's nothing.

As a retired & disabled private individual, I hadn’t realised what another rip-off scheme that our government were running.

Well, no special tax allowances are made for the retired and disabled, when they spend their own money anyway. (What about the rest of us?)

[JCJM]

It is what it is. I never buy anything from outside the EU borders unless the price is still acceptable when you add the VAT and customs fees to it. There is a price to be payed for being ignorant and unfortunately it is usually through experience that we learn about the nasty realities of international dealing and wheeling :cry:

[rfrazier]

Indirect, regressive ways of raising funds has always been the easiest and least harmful politically for a government. And, this is a very high cost state. Which is why VAT, taxes on gasoline, tobacco and alcohol are so important. They are stealthy, and regressive.

What shocks is when they have to show the added taxes, etc. independently. I would like to see a law requiring open pricing. For any item purchased, it would be a requirement to show the taxes for the item separately from the base price, just like with goods imported from outside the EU. This would be great for open, fair government, as people would then have a better idea of how much they are paying for the services, etc., that they get.

Best wishes,
Bob

[studs]

I can't believe there are people out there who are still surprised by (and therefore ignorant of) Customs charges and VAT... I'd be intrigued to know how they think the enormity of the country's public infrastructure is funded?... genuine question!

As for the handling charge, I recommend that if you are so aggrieved by it, go to have a look at the Royal Mail Central Hub at Coventry and see how much Royal Mail (not HMRC) infrastructure and man-power goes into just the handling of Customs and VAT. Should they do this for free?... again, genuine question!

[rfrazier]

I can't believe there are people out there who are still surprised by (and therefore ignorant of) Customs charges and VAT... I'd be intrigued to know how they think the enormity of the country's public infrastructure is funded?... genuine question!

As for the handling charge, I recommend that if you are so aggrieved by it, go to have a look at the Royal Mail Central Hub at Coventry and see how much Royal Mail (not HMRC) infrastructure and man-power goes into just the handling of Customs and VAT. Should they do this for free?... again, genuine question!

I got an idea of the costs of paper work recently when I wanted to order something from someone who generally deals with the government. When I said that I was merely a private individual, he asked whether that meant that I didn't need much in the way of paper work. When I said I didn't need any, he said "thank God" and dropped the price by 10 percent. ;)

Best wishes,
Bob

[Omegamanic]

Never had the handling fee before :( why is that there - surely if they decide to stop it and tax it ou shouldn't be paying for the priviledge! the VAT and Duty should be expected though.

[andrew]

What shocks is when they have to show the added taxes, etc. independently. I would like to see a law requiring open pricing. For any item purchased, it would be a requirement to show the taxes for the item separately from the base price, just like with goods imported from outside the EU. This would be great for open, fair government, as people would then have a better idea of how much they are paying for the services, etc., that they get.

I agree completely and totally. Brits seem so inured to VAT that they think it's part of the price the retailer keeps (hence the "rip-off Britain" complaints when comparing to US prices quotes exclusively and always ex-taxes/fees). It's interesting that the latest Western nation to introduce a proper VAT (Australia) has not learned from the experiences of other countries, or chosen to ignore them, by mandating that prices are always shown inclusive of GST. Then again, this is desirable from the government's perspective as it allows them, as you say, to raise taxes stealthily and easily.

About the only advantage I can think of for quoting tax-inclusive retail prices is that the amount on the sticker is the amount you pay at the till. But this is as lazy and facile as arguing in favour of a single European currency because it makes your holiday fun easier to work out just how much it's costing you.

[Mr Yarrow]

but if anything is valued over £7 then you'll be charged VAT/duties not only on the value of the item, but also the shipping costs! The general rules:

Sorry Vince but you are are a little off in that figure, its £18 before you pay taxes. If its over £18 then you will be charged first of all import tax on the value of the item, a variable rate around 5% on time pieces I think, and THEN you pay VAT at 17.5% on the value of the item and shipping.

The threshold figure is also calculated daily/weekly so the weakness against the pound means you used to be able to get $36 worth of gear its now more like $24 :cry:

Rgds

[Mr Yarrow]

Never had the handling fee before :( why is that there - surely if they decide to stop it and tax it ou shouldn't be paying for the priviledge! the VAT and Duty should be expected though.

The official explanation is that the fee is set by the handling agent, Parcel Farce in most cases as their fee in order to collect the money and process the payment back to HMCE.

Let me dig out a parliamentary response on the matter for you.

Rgds

[andrew]

I can't believe there are people out there who are still surprised by (and therefore ignorant of) Customs charges and VAT... I'd be intrigued to know how they think the enormity of the country's public infrastructure is funded?

I'll agree with "enormity" in this instance:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/enormity

Besides, VAT is a bit player. The majority of the country's public infrastructure, which includes benefits and a money-pit NHS, is funded by you through income tax. The second, by you and your employers, through national insurance tax once once funded the NHS alone but is now just the same tax by another name. Then comes VAT. Just behind VAT, but due to overtake, is corporation tax. Then duties, land-grab taxes like stamp duty, and special taxes for the motorist that compound both duty and VAT.

Interestingly, the road "public infrastructure" cost only £8-10bn pa - a pathetic amount which pales next to the £45bn extracted from motorists every year. So calls to arms regarding the need to fund our infrastructure are specious, at best.

[outstretchedhands]

Yep, been there, done that and just burned the T-Shirt.. :twisted:

[KavKav]

:evil: What REALLY irritates me about this 'Duty', plus VAT on the total value INCLUDING the duty (Tax on a tax!)is often the taxed item is a pre-owned item that has ALREADY had applicable tax and duty paid on it when new at the point of original sale! Talk about wanting your bloody cake and eating it! :evil:

[rfrazier]

:evil: What REALLY irritates me about this 'Duty', plus VAT on the total value INCLUDING the duty (Tax on a tax!)is often the taxed item is a pre-owned item that has ALREADY had applicable tax and duty paid on it when new at the point of original sale! Talk about wanting your bloody cake and eating it! :evil:

I find it pleasant to think that I've added value to something merely by owning it. :)

Best wishes,
Bob

[VinceR]

Sorry Vince but you are are a little off in that figure, its £18 before you pay taxes. If its over £18 then you will be charged first of all import tax on the value of the item, a variable rate around 5% on time pieces I think, and THEN you pay VAT at 17.5% on the value of the item and shipping.

Sorry you are right, I meant to say that it's waived if the amount of duty is <£7 ..

[studs]

Interestingly, the road "public infrastructure" cost only £8-10bn pa - a pathetic amount which pales next to the £45bn extracted from motorists every year. So calls to arms regarding the need to fund our infrastructure are specious, at best.

How it's raised and spent is a political issue, and I'm not here for a political debate... so I'll just throw the accusation of being specious regarding the actual crux of my point right back, and leave it at that. :P

[Dave E]

The 'tax on a tax' element of the VAT, and the fact you're charged on the postal charges as well, are particularly galling. As for the handling fee, well that usually means they charge you a chunk and then you have to go and pick it up from their delivery office (if ParcelFarce or Royal Mail), thereby meaning you pay a surcharge for them not actually doing the delivery part of their job, which seems just a little out of order, frankly...

[Mr Yarrow]

The 'tax on a tax' element of the VAT, and the fact you're charged on the postal charges as well, are particularly galling. As for the handling fee, well that usually means they charge you a chunk and then you have to go and pick it up from their delivery office (if ParcelFarce or Royal Mail), thereby meaning you pay a surcharge for them not actually doing the delivery part of their job, which seems just a little out of order, frankly...

Dont forget all the hard work involved in handling the packages Dave :roll:

This is the Parliamentary question I mentioned earlier;

Simon Hughes: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform what assessment he has made of the appropriateness and transparency of handling fees charged to UK customers by international parcel delivery services. [223464]

Mr. McFadden [holding answer 15 September 2008]: Postal operators are legally required to work with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) to facilitate the collection of customs duty and taxes on goods entering the UK from outside the EU. The handling fee goes towards covering the costs incurred in storing items and collecting the duty fee on behalf of HMRC before it can be released to the customer.

In such a highly competitive market, it is for the parcels companies to review their own pricing structures in response to competitive pressures and market demands. Where there is evidence that an operator is behaving in an anti-competitive manner, the matter should be drawn to the attention of the Office of Fair Trading (OFT).

The MP that asked the question made the following comment on the back of it to the person that made the initial enquiry;

It is apparent that the government believe that parcel companies operate in a highly competitive market. By implication therefore they suggest that the price of handling fees is reasonable because if it was not consumers would go elsewhere. It is debatable whether this is true but, again, Consumer Focus would be in the best place to advise as to how to respond to this information.

I hope this has been of help. If you have any further questions or concerns then please do get in contact. I apologise once again for the length of time it has taken to get a response to your most reasonable enquiries.

So the Gov says that consumers would go elsewhere and the charge is a going rate, but the consumer cant actually reliably elect who handles their delivery, so that argument is toss really :(

Rgds

[walkerwek1958]

I`ve had some luck over the last few years buying watches from overseas; I`ve manage to avoid paying Customs charges in most cases. However, Ive decided to quit whilst ahead and won`t be buying again from outside the EU again.

Best way to avoid paying is to misrepresent the item in the description, although this is difficult when the item is insured correctly because the two values obviously conflict.

I think I pay enough in taxes etc so I resent paying further taxes like this. Usual reason for buying from overseas has been availability; I`ve bought watches that simply were not available in the UK.

Perhaps everyone should be allowed an annual limit which can be rolled up year on year if you've not used it?

Paul

[rfrazier]

I`ve had some luck over the last few years buying watches from overseas; I`ve manage to avoid paying Customs charges in most cases. However, Ive decided to quit whilst ahead and won`t be buying again from outside the EU again.

Best way to avoid paying is to misrepresent the item in the description, although this is difficult when the item is insured correctly because the two values obviously conflict.

http://I think I pay enough in taxes...xes like this. Usual reason for buying from overseas has been availability; I`ve bought watches that simply were not available in the UK.

Perhaps everyone should be allowed an annual limit which can be rolled up year on year if you've not used it?

Paul

Well, at the government's spend rate, they need the revenue from somewhere. So, if they cut out the VAT on imports, they would just raise taxes elsewhere.

In any case, I like the idea of an import limit. Even better, why not have tokens, which could be bought or sold? So, anyone who hasn't used up theirs could sell them. One might be able to get a token for a pound sterling of imports for no more than .175 pence.

Best wishes,
Bob

[hutchingsp]

The single biggest tip I can give is, assuming it's appropriate for the size/value of the item, use the sending countries regular postal service i.e. if it's coming from the States have it sent USPS.

If it's sent that way the odds are stacked in your favour. If it's sent by any form of courier the odds are against you as the item will usually be "Customs Cleared" for you.

From the values you've mentioned I'm guessing it was sent USPS and you were simply unlucky, but worth mentioning anyway.

[deano42]

Don't get me started...

Its legalised crime as far as i'm concerned.!

Thanks
deano

[doug darter]

I received a card through the door this morning, saying that I had fees to pay before a package could be release. 'Oh goodie' I thought, because I am expecting a long overdue package from Canada. I walked to the PO in great anticipation, to find that it wasn't my parcel, but a large letter I had been sent, with insufficient postage :evil: The postage paid was 6p less than should have been paid, and the cost to me?? £1.06!!! The handling charge was £1.00!!

There's no point in railing at the staff, because they have no control over these charges.

[Andre.]

What do you guys do about customs & excise ?

You can't avoid VAT, other that have the seller declare a very small value, which for cheap items I usually ask the seller to do and which I'm likewise always happy to do when I send anything to someone. For high-value items however, it can be a problem as you may not be able to insure it for a higher value than what you declare on the customs form.

Unless they are collected against delivery of the package, I usually do not pay the handling fees of certain carriers because they are frankly shocking. The worst offender here is one of the entities of the Swiss Post (not sure why there are two, the other one is much cheaper), which charges a ridiculous flat fee of CHF 63 (about GBP 32) even if the VAT amount collected is CHF 10. I always write them a letter saying that 1) it is much too high in relation to the amount collected 2) I am not their client so I'm not sure whether I should be the one they should bill it to 3) The paper slip that comes with the invoice says that they charge "market prices”, which is a lie because UPS charges CHF 17.

I’ve done this 4 or 5 times. They’ve dropped it every time except once, where they transferred it to a collection agency. I just told them that I disputed their client’s invoice and they never came back either. Not sure this works anywhere else than Switzerland, but I guess it’s worth a try. I just hope that they never hold an incoming package and ask for collection of all the past amounts before they deliver it.

[andrew]

:evil: What REALLY irritates me about this 'Duty', plus VAT on the total value INCLUDING the duty (Tax on a tax!)is often the taxed item is a pre-owned item that has ALREADY had applicable tax and duty paid on it when new at the point of original sale! Talk about wanting your bloody cake and eating it! :evil:

You know this happens on fuel? Including petrol/diesel of course. Most of the £45bn taken from the motorist this year comes from VAT and VAT on fuel duty, such that of the £1 a litre of petrol or diesel costs, just over 70p is duty/tax. Still, given our world-class road system here in the UK, perhaps I mustn't grumble at the way it's being spent :)

I take your point about the duty and tax being taken at the point of sale, but if that watch was sold in New Hampshire for example, no tax would have been paid on it at all and only a small amount of duty on importation into the US (which FWIW levies no federal sales tax at the point of sale). Importing isn't a one-time thing - you can re-import it as many times as you like. At least in the EU no VAT, which is the largest component by far, is payable between member states provided it was paid once by the seller.

[KavKav]

:evil: What REALLY irritates me about this 'Duty', plus VAT on the total value INCLUDING the duty (Tax on a tax!)is often the taxed item is a pre-owned item that has ALREADY had applicable tax and duty paid on it when new at the point of original sale! Talk about wanting your bloody cake and eating it! :evil:

You know this happens on fuel? Including petrol/diesel of course. Most of the £45bn taken from the motorist this year comes from VAT and VAT on fuel duty, such that of the £1 a litre of petrol or diesel costs, just over 70p is duty/tax. Still, given our world-class road system here in the UK, perhaps I mustn't grumble at the way it's being spent :)

I take your point about the duty and tax being taken at the point of sale, but if that watch was sold in New Hampshire for example, no tax would have been paid on it at all and only a small amount of duty on importation into the US (which FWIW levies no federal sales tax at the point of sale). Importing isn't a one-time thing - you can re-import it as many times as you like. At least in the EU no VAT, which is the largest component by far, is payable between member states provided it was paid once by the seller.

Point taken Andrew. I think the reason the topic is so emotive is that we are collectively 'ripped' at every corner these days which makes us all pretty sensitive, even to small 'duty' issues. :bounce:

[searat]

Since the dollar got strong again I haven't bought any watches from the States, they're not the bargain they were this time last year. Not legal but sometimes less hassle to wait until you have a reason to visit the USA (take the kids to Disneyland - they'll love it), buy the watch, and wear it home. If you can find a bargain flight (they still exist) it can sometimes be cheaper to visit the States than pay the taxes this end. Back in 2000 I was there on business with some colleagues and one of them brought back a very nice bike, but made sure he rode it around for a few miles first so that the tyres had some wear. Harder to do that with a watch though.. :)
Steve

[uptheaddicks]

I`ve had some luck over the last few years buying watches from overseas; I`ve manage to avoid paying Customs charges in most cases. However, Ive decided to quit whilst ahead and won`t be buying again from outside the EU again.

Best way to avoid paying is to misrepresent the item in the description, although this is difficult when the item is insured correctly because the two values obviously conflict.

I think I pay enough in taxes etc so I resent paying further taxes like this. Usual reason for buying from overseas has been availability; I`ve bought watches that simply were not available in the UK.

Perhaps everyone should be allowed an annual limit which can be rolled up year on year if you've not used it?

Paul

FWIW You are not "avoiding"customs charges by this method, you are evading them. That is a criminal offence and carries all of the usual consequences if you are caught. :roll:
Work on the basis there are only 2 things we can be certain of-death & taxes :lol:

[quoll]

As others have said, it is paying VAT and duty on a used item that really gets my goat. I can see the logic in paying VAT on a new item that you import - in fact it is quite resonable that the government charges on such imports. But on a private purchase of a second-hand item? Grrrr..... :evil: Just another example of revenue-theft, like the tax-on-tax applied to VAT on fuel duty.

The 'handling' fee is outrageous too, IMHO. But they have us over a barrel, don't they?

[traf]

Parcel Force or Royal Mail usually have you over a barrel as they won't release your goods until you settle the duty/vat/handling bill. Other couriers appear to deliver the goods then invoice you later. If the 'handling' cost is unreasonable, I simply refuse to pay it (on the basis that I have no contract with the courier and in most instances they have a clause in their T&Cs that the sender remains liable for unpaid fees/taxes). This usually works and often results in the vat/duty element being forgotten about also.

Now as regards the 'vat on delivery charges' complaint, this is a fact of life. The price you pay for most goods includes an element to cover the transport cost (whether visible or not), on which you pay vat. Mr HMRC simply sees the 'price you have paid' for something from abroad to include the delivery cost. At least he's being consistent, for a change...

[Pete]

By way of contrast, the situation here is that you can import goods up to the value of AUD1000 (about GBP400) and not incur any additional fees/charges. A few years ago it was AUD200; one victory for the good guys (!)

So if the value is modest (and you can get alot of watch for GBP400) then it costs no more. But for bigger purchases it quickly changes the deal completely. Over AUD1000 you have to pay GST (10%), plus a customs duty (whatever % depending on the item, often 3-5%) plus a handling type fee (often about AUD50).

I find if the purchase value is more than AUD1000 I tend not to bother. This is not a bad idea!

[3170]

ANDREW: Sorry about mentioning being old and disabled Andrew. I wasn’t after sympathy – merely trying to point out that I’m an ordinary Joe Blow,,,, not running a business (o.k – I’m not inviting comments about disabled businesspeople either !).

STUDS: If you are that way inclined, or need the knowledge for your work – then fine – you will know about it all,,,, but to millions of ordinary folk, they are happy in their ignorance of the way the Country is run. Most of them just work hard & pay their dues.
In my case, I do realise that the Country is just another business & has to make money before they can spend it. I begrudgingly pay taxes (including Council tax) but actually agree to it.

I do feel sorry for the Post Office, and the business that they choose to be in. They cry about being broke (!?) but since E-Bay started, their profits must have gone up by thousands of points. Of course I don’t expect anyone to work for nothing,,,,

My argument is: that this freeloading government talk about Fair trade this & fair trade that,,,, then stop us from buying & selling bits between colleagues from around the world – by pricing them out of it and raping any transaction.
If they put something into the transaction – fine,,,, have a cut,,,, as they don’t LEAVE IT ALONE.
BTW: Love the Avatar. I used to keep BoP.

KAV: It seems to be a problem that Joe Blow doesn’t think about with Vat. When things are made, vat is paid on all the bits on the conveyer belt,,,, as you say tax is taxed is taxed is taxed.

They can also charge on the VALUE of an article,,,, whether it’s a gift, repair, returned item etc. If you send something out of the E.U for repair say,,,, they can charge you when your own item comes back into E.U. If the repair wasn’t successful & you have to send it again, in theory, they can charge you again when it comes back into the E.U.

Mr YARROW: It isn’t really surprising that that most ministers are tunnel visioned. The poor bloke doesn’t seem to realise that up to yet – there is no competition for the consumer to go to !

DEANO: Exactly what I’ve been saying. If anyone else tried this, they’d be strung up !
Demanding money with menaces, theft, living off immoral earnings, coercion etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The problem is, that far too many people in the E.U will not deal with none E.U sellers because of this. Not only is this crap effecting us,,,,, it’s also effecting the foreign sellers.

[studs]

STUDS: If you are that way inclined, or need the knowledge for your work – then fine – you will know about it all,,,, but to millions of ordinary folk, they are happy in their ignorance of the way the Country is run. Most of them just work hard & pay their dues.
In my case, I do realise that the Country is just another business & has to make money before they can spend it. I begrudgingly pay taxes (including Council tax) but actually agree to it.

I do feel sorry for the Post Office, and the business that they choose to be in. They cry about being broke (!?) but since E-Bay started, their profits must have gone up by thousands of points. Of course I don’t expect anyone to work for nothing,,,,

My argument is: that this freeloading government talk about Fair trade this & fair trade that,,,, then stop us from buying & selling bits between colleagues from around the world – by pricing them out of it and raping any transaction.
If they put something into the transaction – fine,,,, have a cut,,,, as they don’t LEAVE IT ALONE.
BTW: Love the Avatar. I used to keep BoP.

The problem is, that far too many people in the E.U will not deal with none E.U sellers because of this. Not only is this crap effecting us,,,,, it’s also effecting the foreign sellers.

Unfortunately, my work does necessitate the need to know VAT inside out (and Customs to a degree), and I also know that they don't work in a vindictive way (though it often feels like they might). They only see black and white I'm afraid, and sometimes one rule might be seen to be harsh on one party, and lenient on another, but it's just the nature of the beast. You see it tries to be a one size fits all operation, and to try to avoid over-complexity and too much red tape (there's a bit of a joke there and I didn't even mean it :roll: ), some will always get the shitty end of the stick!

Also, you talk of fair trade, but remember, one of the functions of Customs is to help protect our self interest (i.e.. businesses and jobs in this country) from an unfair (often scandalously exploitative) influx of cheap materials and products from abroad... all of a sudden, the game becomes complex where conflicting interests abound, and I begin to loose the will to carry on discussing it. :roll:

[3170]

QUOTE: "Also, you talk of fair trade, but remember, one of the functions of Customs is to help protect our self interest (i.e.. businesses and jobs in this country) from an unfair (often scandalously exploitative) influx of cheap materials and products from abroad... all of a sudden, the game becomes complex where conflicting interests abound, and I begin to loose the will to carry on. "
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I very slightly agree with the concept,,,,,, but at the very low level that i'm talking about - if we want to buy a certain something,,,, then we will buy a certain something,,,, whether it comes from the EU or Non E.U. Just because the UK Gov' prices us out of buying from Non EU countries,,,, dosn't mean we won't get it ! It means we will get it from an EU country - if we can afford it. The only difference is that a non EU seller misses out (through no fault of his own) and we miss out on what could be a bargain.
It seems to me that the Gov talk about Fair-Trade with one hat on,,,, yet cut the legs off peoples with another hat on.

Who knows how many lots of tax, duty etc has already been paid on these objects ?

I'm not a great conglomerate who's “wheels & deals” can break Counties,,,, i'm just a retired old twerp who's looking for a few quids worth of bargain !

Coincidentally – whilst talking of Raptors – whenever I sold a bird, the vat man made me pay vat on it,,,,,, yet they wouldn’t allow me to claim vat on buying the birds or their foodtuffs & caging equipment !

[Nuphoria]

It all makes me cross! The biggest slap in the face is the rip off post office charges currently of £8. I wouldn't mind so much but the lying toe rags barely ever try to deliver things to us. They put the card through the door saying they attempted to deliver, then piss off and leave us having to make the journey to the "local" sorting office. They are full of crap!

*breathe*

[raysablade]

The second, by you and your employers, through national insurance tax once once funded the NHS alone but is now just the same tax by another name.

National Insurance was introduced in 1908 to fund contributory social security benefits, a full 40 years before the birth of the NHS. Its principal political architect was Winston Curchill.

Since 1948 there has been a nominal deduction from certain classes of National Insurance to assist the NHS but the vast majority of the contributions collected are held and accounted for in the National Insurance Fund. This is completely separate from the general taxation that has always paid for the NHS.

[raysablade]

My argument is: that this freeloading government talk about Fair trade this & fair trade that,,,, then stop us from buying & selling bits between colleagues from around the world – by pricing them out of it and raping any transaction.
If they put something into the transaction – fine,,,, have a cut,,,, as they don’t LEAVE IT ALONE.
BTW: Love the Avatar. I used to keep BoP.

In the end you are arguing against the concept of taxing the movement of goods from one fiscal jurisdiction to another. This is probably the only legislative principle that governments have agreed on and applied consistently over the last 3 millennia.