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Thread: Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

  1. #1251
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    In Dutch newspapers today: driving a full electric car is more expensive than driving a petrol car due to the high prices of kWh.
    Yes, similar over here the last couple of days, but then the same articles were saying they could fill a minimum 60 litre fuel tank for £50, which is clearly nonsense.

    The energy costs thread, and this one, has a few posts in it where the sums show that it’s approaching cost parity with petrol, but still some way away.
    Last edited by Tooks; 31st August 2022 at 20:58.

  2. #1252
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    In Dutch newspapers today: driving a full electric car is more expensive than driving a petrol car due to the high prices of kWh.
    Maybe you can in Holland? But you wouldn’t have a hope of running an ICE car for a monthly average fuel bill of £40 in the U.K.

    Plus, for reference we sold our ICE Mini Cooper S and replaced it with a year newer BMW i3S, so overall a few grand more than our ICE car. So even the cost to change is less of an issue than some would have you believe.

  3. #1253
    Well I am looking forward to my Tesla Model Y arriving as just had delivery confirmed for 3rd week in September.

    2% BIK was a no brainer to jump on board EV vs a 5 series ICE!

  4. #1254
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    Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

    RSymonds video shows break even around 55mpg ICE, can’t remember the fuel type but you can watch his video and screenshot the xls if interested




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    Last edited by Darkeeboy; 31st August 2022 at 21:25.

  5. #1255
    Quote Originally Posted by yumma View Post
    Maybe you can in Holland? But you wouldn’t have a hope of running an ICE car for a monthly average fuel bill of £40 in the U.K.

    Plus, for reference we sold our ICE Mini Cooper S and replaced it with a year newer BMW i3S, so overall a few grand more than our ICE car. So even the cost to change is less of an issue than some would have you believe.
    Is this ann app that you can add your model etc and current pence per kw?

  6. #1256
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Is this ann app that you can add your model etc and current pence per kw?
    This is the App from my Energy Supplier who fitted my Smart Charger. SO Energy. As they are my supplier all the energy costs are known and we have gone for their EV tariff of reduced off peak electric between 00:00-06:00.

  7. #1257
    An interesting perspective on the whole electrification thing, I know it is from canada, but the parallel is drawn. Give it a chance, it is quite humerous and down to earth.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6c-qDK8zZk

  8. #1258
    Craftsman Lazydonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yumma View Post
    This is the App from my Energy Supplier who fitted my Smart Charger. SO Energy. As they are my supplier all the energy costs are known and we have gone for their EV tariff of reduced off peak electric between 00:00-06:00.
    You can do it via our BMW app too.

    In other news, I've got my eldest's club run tonight (tae kwon do and then football) which i've been doing in the i3 since we got it. It's maybe a 15 mile round trip across he edge of the city. I'm in our diesel volvo tonight and i miss the i3. We've had this car 5 years and it's been great but around town and for shorter journeys elec is just nicer. So much nicer.

    I had my first driving less on my 17th birthday. Petrol head all my life. Long list of sports cars and motorbikes. If i could change the volvo for a BEV at a reasonable cost i'd do it tomorrow. I'd be fully all in.

    Only thing that stops me is that it doesn't do many miles (maybe 6k a year) and i can't make the maths work. So instead we're just, quite quickly using the i3 for every journey if at all possible.

    We've had the i3 under 2 months
    Last edited by Lazydonkey; 1st September 2022 at 19:01.

  9. #1259
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazydonkey View Post
    You can do it via our BMW app too.

    In other news, I've got my eldest's club run tonight (tae kwon do and then football) which i've been doing in the i3 since we got it. It's maybe a 15 mile round trip across he edge of the city. I'm in our diesel volvo tonight and i miss the i3. We've had this car 5 years and it's been great but around town and for shorter journeys elec is just nicer. So much nicer.

    I had my first driving less on my 17th birthday. Petrol head all my life. Long list of sports cars and motorbikes. If i could change the volvo for a BEV at a reasonable cost i'd do it tomorrow. I'd be fully all in.

    Only thing that stops me is that it doesn't do many miles (maybe 6k a year) and i can't make the maths work. So instead we're just, quite quickly using the i3 for every journey if at all possible.

    We've had the i3 under 2 months
    Absolutely, we have programmed our I3S to charge only off peak too, so with this in mind no one needs to even buy a smart charger. Love our I3S, a shame BMW have discontinued it and aren’t replacing. Starting to look at replacements and looking forward to the new Smart #1 in December or even the MG4 Trophy later this month.

  10. #1260
    I know theres the argument of a lifetime of pollution caused by diesels V the environmental impact of the production of EVs but surely getting cars off the road that have the capability of doing this must be a good thing?
    Nothing remarkable about this other than the fact this part was replaced back in Feb this year by another garage which was faulting caused by this build up of smeg. No other faults with the car and gets driven about 20 miles per day plus weekends and just come back from France.
    This example is perfectly normal what you’d find on the inside of most induction systems of any modern Diesel engine.



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  11. #1261
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I know theres the argument of a lifetime of pollution caused by diesels V the environmental impact of the production of EVs but surely getting cars off the road that have the capability of doing this must be a good thing?
    Nothing remarkable about this other than the fact this part was replaced back in Feb this year by another garage which was faulting caused by this build up of smeg. No other faults with the car and gets driven about 20 miles per day plus weekends and just come back from France.
    This example is perfectly normal what you’d find on the inside of most induction systems of any modern Diesel engine.



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    Similar to the sort of stuff put out by wood-burning stoves - very popular on TZ atm, think even you have one?

  12. #1262
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Similar to the sort of stuff put out by wood-burning stoves - very popular on TZ atm, think even you have one?
    Tell me something….do you make it your life’s work to troll people. Ive tried ignoring you but tbh your becoming one annoying prick.

  13. #1263
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    Definitely a step in the right direction but it’s worth pointing out that the majority of electricity that powers EVs comes from gas turbine power stations (and still some coal) which have their own pollutants. There is also nuclear power which has long term environmental issues. Hopefully the swing towards renewable energy will continue at pace and we can wean ourselves off the dirtier electrical generation.

    He’s not wrong about wood-burning stoves. Just removed ours as I don’t want the kids breathing in more crap than they need to. Bad timing with the current fuel crisis though!
    Last edited by benny.c; 4th September 2022 at 10:26.

  14. #1264
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Tell me something….do you make it your life’s work to troll people. Ive tried ignoring you but tbh your becoming one annoying prick.
    Why not address my point, am I right?

  15. #1265
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny.c View Post
    Definitely a step in the right direction but it’s worth pointing out that the majority of electricity that powers EVs comes from gas turbine power stations (and still some coal) which have their own pollutants. There is also nuclear power which has long term environmental issues. Hopefully the swing towards renewable energy will continue at pace and we can wean ourselves off the dirtier electrical generation.

    He’s not wrong about wood-burning stoves. Just removed ours as I don’t want the kids breathing in more crap than they need to. Bad timing with the current fuel crisis though!
    june 2022 45 percent renewables and that will keep increasing over the next 10 years.

    https://assets.publishing.service.go..._June_2022.pdf

  16. #1266
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Why not address my point, am I right?
    No idea tbh, i don't know the % of households that have WBS and the impact V diesel cars. Are you also suggesting that you, as id probably guess having either electric or gas heating don't add to that problem?

    Anyway back to my comment about the reason why you’re on here….Troll or not? Think we can say without doubt you probably are, following people around, single line comments. What do you actual add of any purpose to this forum other than single snide singe line replies?

  17. #1267
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    No idea tbh, i don't know the % of households that have WBS and the impact V diesel cars. Are you also suggesting that you, as id probably guess having either electric or gas heating don't add to that problem?

    Anyway back to my comment about the reason why you’re on here….Troll or not? Think we can say without doubt you probably are, following people around, single line comments. What do you actual add of any purpose to this forum other than single snide singe line replies?
    Yes, I'd suggest that using gas heating doesn't produce significant soot.

    As for trolling, don't flatter yourself - I'm certainly not following you around but if you or someone else posts b#llo#cks I might comment and if I can make my point with a single line, why be more verbose?

  18. #1268
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Yes, I'd suggest that using gas heating doesn't produce significant soot.

    As for trolling, don't flatter yourself - I'm certainly not following you around but if you or someone else posts b#llo#cks I might comment and if I can make my point with a single line, why be more verbose?
    Im not flattering myself, you do it to everyone. You only need to look back your history to see that.

    So what do you use to heat your water and warm yourself during the winter months?

  19. #1269
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Im not flattering myself, you do it to everyone. You only need to look back your history to see that.

    So what do you use to heat your water and warm yourself during the winter months?
    You said I was following people around. So, I'm doing that to everyone? Makes sense...

  20. #1270
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    You said I was following people around. So, I'm doing that to everyone? Makes sense...
    Answer the question…what do you heat your house with.

    If youre going to point out the fact I've got a wood burner i hope you’re squeaky clean yourself.

  21. #1271
    Wasn’t this thread about the viability of EV’s at one point? 😂

  22. #1272
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Answer the question…what do you heat your house with.

    If youre going to point out the fact I've got a wood burner i hope you’re squeaky clean yourself.
    Thought I had TBH,

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    No idea tbh, i don't know the % of households that have WBS and the impact V diesel cars. Are you also suggesting that you, as id probably guess having either electric or gas heating don't add to that problem?

    Anyway back to my comment about the reason why you’re on here….Troll or not? Think we can say without doubt you probably are, following people around, single line comments. What do you actual add of any purpose to this forum other than single snide singe line replies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Yes, I'd suggest that using gas heating doesn't produce significant soot.

    As for trolling, don't flatter yourself - I'm certainly not following you around but if you or someone else posts b#llo#cks I might comment and if I can make my point with a single line, why be more verbose?
    If you still can't work it out, I use gas.

    Comparing this to your log burner is similar to comparing an EV to a diesel vehicle.

  23. #1273
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Thought I had TBH,
    If you still can't work it out, I use gas.
    Comparing this to your log burner is similar to comparing an EV to a diesel vehicle.
    Ah i see, well thanks anyway.

  24. #1274
    Master Omegary's Avatar
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    So I'm looking into getting an EV at some point. Unfortunately I don't have a driveway, so home charging is not an option. Neither is charging at work, as they didn't have the foresight to install any charging points in their new, state of the art, HQ.

    However my local council have installed 12 charging bays in a car park which are about a mile from my home. But here's the catch, they're run by EZ-Charge and for the life of me I can't found out a cost per kWh. It's not on their website or the councils website and there's no indication of cost on the charging ports themselves. I'm guessing the only way to find out the cost is to actually start charging your vehicle. Surely a price should be displayed somewhere? I'm sure petrol stations have to display their prices by law. Oh and as their relatively low 22kWh chargers you're going to be there for around 2.5 - 3 hours with a 64kWh battery at a guess. You still have to buy a parking ticket which I'd have thought the council would have built into the price per kWh to try and encourage EV take up.

    My other option is an Instavolt charger which is around 10 miles away and they charge 66p per kWh or just under £40 for 60kWh, which would give a range of around 250 miles in a reasonably efficient EV. My current diesel car gets over 500 miles per tank (usually average over 60 mpg) and cost around £80 to fill from nearly empty. So around the same cost.

    My other train of thought was to buy a second hand Tesla S with free charging for life and use their superchargers. However they're around £30K with 100k miles and I understand exclusively using superchargers is not good for long term battery health.

    So until the charging infrastructure improves and the cost become more transparent I'll just run my car into the ground, which is probably better for the environment than replacing it. Don't get me wrong I'd love an EV but it's just not viable for me at this point in time.

    Gary

  25. #1275
    Quote Originally Posted by Omegary View Post
    So I'm looking into getting an EV at some point. Unfortunately I don't have a driveway, so home charging is not an option. Neither is charging at work, as they didn't have the foresight to install any charging points in their new, state of the art, HQ.

    However my local council have installed 12 charging bays in a car park which are about a mile from my home. But here's the catch, they're run by EZ-Charge and for the life of me I can't found out a cost per kWh. It's not on their website or the councils website and there's no indication of cost on the charging ports themselves. I'm guessing the only way to find out the cost is to actually start charging your vehicle. Surely a price should be displayed somewhere? I'm sure petrol stations have to display their prices by law. Oh and as their relatively low 22kWh chargers you're going to be there for around 2.5 - 3 hours with a 64kWh battery at a guess. You still have to buy a parking ticket which I'd have thought the council would have built into the price per kWh to try and encourage EV take up.

    My other option is an Instavolt charger which is around 10 miles away and they charge 66p per kWh or just under £40 for 60kWh, which would give a range of around 250 miles in a reasonably efficient EV. My current diesel car gets over 500 miles per tank (usually average over 60 mpg) and cost around £80 to fill from nearly empty. So around the same cost.

    My other train of thought was to buy a second hand Tesla S with free charging for life and use their superchargers. However they're around £30K with 100k miles and I understand exclusively using superchargers is not good for long term battery health.

    So until the charging infrastructure improves and the cost become more transparent I'll just run my car into the ground, which is probably better for the environment than replacing it. Don't get me wrong I'd love an EV but it's just not viable for me at this point in time.

    Gary
    Log in to zap-map and find the chargers….price and availability is usually on there

    Edits…theres a few in Banbury so unsure of your exact location but they all appear to be 43p per kWh during the day and 37p overnight, This is for the 22kw chargers
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 4th September 2022 at 12:35.

  26. #1276
    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    In Dutch newspapers today: driving a full electric car is more expensive than driving a petrol car due to the high prices of kWh.
    Similar stories, which turned out to be lies, were published here in the UK a week ago.

  27. #1277
    Master Omegary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Log in to zap-map and find the chargers….price and availability is usually on there

    Edits…theres a few in Banbury so unsure of your exact location but they all appear to be 43p per kWh during the day and 37p overnight, This is for the 22kw chargers
    Thanks FFF, that's the same price where I live according to Zap Map. Also the last feedback on there said the charge rate was running a meagre 3.7kWh despite being the only EV on charge.

    Why can't the price be more transparent? Imagine filling up at a petrol station and not knowing the price until you went to pay!

    Gary
    Last edited by Omegary; 4th September 2022 at 12:46.

  28. #1278
    Quote Originally Posted by Omegary View Post
    Thanks FFF, that's the same price where I live according to Zap Map. Also the last feedback on there said the charge rate was running a meagre 3.7kWh despite being the only EV on charge.

    Why can't the price be more transparent? Imagine filling up at a petrol station and not knowing the price until you went to pay!

    Gary
    Yeh its a silly and id think in time that may change.

  29. #1279
    I can "fill" the Tesla at the new price cap (~51p kWh) for £35 at home.

    It will then do ~250 mixed miles, so 14p a mile. At £1.65/litre my Merc costs 20p a mile.

    So the Tesla is still cheaper, but when I got it at Christmas the Tesla it was half the price.

  30. #1280
    Master Omegary's Avatar
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    Octopus Energy have a 7.5p /kw rate between 00.30 and 4.30 which is a fantastic price for those fortunate to be able to charge from home. How long it'll remain this cheap though is anyones guess.

    Gary

  31. #1281
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    Interested in the new MG4, reviews have been very positive for the price point. Yes, it’s not a Tesla M3, Kia EV6 or Hyundai Ionic 5 but also costs considerably less than those cars so will be worth a test drive, at least. 7 year warranty as well.

  32. #1282
    Craftsman
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    I was planning to go electric next year but the tech is moving so fast. Apparently the next leap is to make the chassis out of the battery packs, therefore reducing the dead weight considerably and improving range. Dunno whether to jump anyway or wait another couple of years.

  33. #1283
    Master
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    There are always reports about how EVs never match their claimed range. Well, in the right conditions it is quite possible to match or exceed it.
    The last 3 weekends I have had to make a round trip from north east London to Chichester in my E- tron. The distance is 188 miles, and I have each time ended up with 24-25% or 55-58 miles left so could have managed to travel about 245 miles, not bad since the official range is only about 230 miles. That was on a mix of motorway, A and B roads at an average 47 mph, 4 people in the car and going easy on the accelerator but by no means hypermiling. I am still paying 5p/ kWh on Octopus for a few more weeks so that 560 miles cost about £10 in electric.


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  34. #1284
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watchmanuk4 View Post
    I was planning to go electric next year but the tech is moving so fast. Apparently the next leap is to make the chassis out of the battery packs, therefore reducing the dead weight considerably and improving range. Dunno whether to jump anyway or wait another couple of years.
    There never had been a time with ICE or will be a time with EVs, when your tech comment has/will not apply.

    Any time is a good time but there will always be a better time in the near future.

  35. #1285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegary View Post
    Octopus Energy have a 7.5p /kw rate between 00.30 and 4.30 which is a fantastic price for those fortunate to be able to charge from home. How long it'll remain this cheap though is anyones guess.

    Gary
    I’m on Octopus Go and it’s fixed for a year, I have set up a schedule to charge on my Easee charger between these times. My Born will now cost around £4 to charge and get about 200 miles, we also stick the washing machine and dishwasher on the timer as well so win win. Unfortunately we’ll still get screwed for gas soon though.

    That RAC article has been proven to be a load of rubbish yet is quoted all over the place, I laughed at £50 for a full tank for a Jag F Pace and they used the most expensive fast charging rate you can get for the I Pace.

  36. #1286
    Grand Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernestrome View Post
    Similar stories, which turned out to be lies, were published here in the UK a week ago.
    Perhaps. But Dutch energy prices are currently Europe's highest...

  37. #1287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Tell me something….do you make it your life’s work to troll people. Ive tried ignoring you but tbh your becoming one annoying prick.
    FFF, I'm gutted for you man that it's taken you this long to discover that....😳

  38. #1288
    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    FFF, I'm gutted for you man that it's taken you this long to discover that....
    Thread guffing is his thing- already knew it but tried to ignore.

  39. #1289
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Thread guffing is his thing- already knew it but tried to ignore.
    You are taking his comments the wrong way. He can grate a bit sometimes but he always has a point.
    In this case you were indirectly justifying your switch to electric cars by showing something you know well: a car part full of the shit that comes from burning diesel.
    KS only pointed that while what you said was undeniably true, in another thread you are considering a wood burning stove which produces a not that dissimilar shit.
    No more, no less.
    I don’t think there is any reason to be offended or to react as you did. His point is valid yet will not make you change a iota of what you want to do, because that is what we always do.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  40. #1290
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    You are taking his comments the wrong way. He can grate a bit sometimes but he always has a point.
    In this case you were indirectly justifying your switch to electric cars by showing something you know well: a car part full of the shit that comes from burning diesel.
    KS only pointed that while what you said was undeniably true, in another thread you are considering a wood burning stove which produces a not that dissimilar shit.
    No more, no less.
    I don’t think there is any reason to be offended or to react as you did. His point is valid yet will not make you change a iota of what you want to do, because that is what we always do.
    You’re wrong on several points.
    I’m not justifying my switch to electric, it makes economical sense for me to do so and the fact it will be lowering my footprint so to speak is a good thing.
    I’m also not considering a wood burner, I’ve had one fitted. My usage will be Nov to Feb-March time and I will limit its usage if not needed. I have solar power and don’t rely on burning gas for hot water or heating as there is no gas in my village. I have recently had a device fitted which through the summer has heated all of our hot water via excess energy from the panels. This will drop in the winter and I will have to rely on a timed boost from the immersion for hot water… again not burning gas. My car will change from diesel to electric anytime soon. I’m out during the day and only home in the evenings so the usage of the burner will be not excessive.
    As to being offended… also wrong.
    I don’t generally get offended but what does happen is I get triggered by dick heads who have no other purpose but to stir crap which exactly what he was doing.




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  41. #1291
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    You’re wrong on several points.
    I’m not justifying my switch to electric, it makes economical sense for me to do so and the fact it will be lowering my footprint so to speak is a good thing.
    I’m also not considering a wood burner, I’ve had one fitted. My usage will be Nov to Feb-March time and I will limit its usage if not needed. I have solar power and don’t rely on burning gas for hot water or heating as there is no gas in my village. I have recently had a device fitted which through the summer has heated all of our hot water via excess energy from the panels. This will drop in the winter and I will have to rely on a timed boost from the immersion for hot water… again not burning gas. My car will change from diesel to electric anytime soon. I’m out during the day and only home in the evenings so the usage of the burner will be not excessive.
    As to being offended… also wrong.
    I don’t generally get offended but what does happen is I get triggered by dick heads who have no other purpose but to stir crap which exactly what he was doing.




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    Let it lie
    Twat.

  42. #1292
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Let it lie
    Twat.
    Thats some advise you need to take on board yourself.


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  43. #1293

    Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Thats some advise you need to take on board yourself.


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    Thought I had but you revived the spat today.

    Advice BTW.
    Last edited by Kingstepper; 5th September 2022 at 11:26.

  44. #1294
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Thought I had but you revived the spat today.

    Advice BTW.
    Again a bit like you. Makes you feel good does it highlighting an error. Shows your level perfectly.


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  45. #1295
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Again a bit like you. Makes you feel good does it highlighting an error. Shows your level perfectly.


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    Just trying to educate.

  46. #1296
    Belittle


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  47. #1297
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuie-t View Post
    There are always reports about how EVs never match their claimed range.
    ICE ranges and consumption have always been 'optimistic', so this isn't that much of a black mark against EVs.

  48. #1298
    EV advertised range no different an ICE manufacturers MPG claims. It’s possible, but not likely in normal conditions. Take both with a pinch of salt.

  49. #1299
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    Things got interesting:




    Now, where did I leave that spare £60k? £70k?
    Last edited by hogthrob; 7th September 2022 at 17:08.

  50. #1300
    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    Things got interesting:




    Now, where did I leave that spare £60k? £70k?
    Review here:
    https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...h-review/46172

    Prices: Price: £57,115 (for Life model, Style £61,915, 1st Edition £62,995)

    "proper camper" California replacement to follow apparently, I guess you'll need your £70k+ for that

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