[ 13/11/2022: This thread has been replaced by: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...-04am-UK-time) ]
[ Title was previously : Artemis 1 due to launch today (Monday 29th August) ]
[ 04/11/2022: Title was previously: Artemis 1 due to launch today (Saturday 3rd September at 19:17 BST UK time onwards) ]
See #33 for links to launch attempt of 03/09/2022.
All being well, the Artemis 1 rocket should launch tomorrow at any time from 12:33 UTC (13:33 UK time) onwards. This is the first really major step towards the return to the Moon.
A useful article here: https://earthsky.org/space/artemis1-...=EarthSky+News
From the above article:
What Artemis 1 will do
Artemis 1’s objective is partly to test SLS, a vehicle comparable to the great Saturn V that carried the first astronauts to the moon in the Apollo program of the ’60s and ’70s.
SLS – the world’s tallest rocket – is far more advanced than the Saturn V, technologically. But its main purpose is thrust. SLS will produce 8.8 million pounds (3.9 million kg) of thrust during liftoff and ascent, 15% more than the Saturn V. It’ll need that much thrust to loft a vehicle weighing nearly 6 million pounds (2.7 million kg) to orbit. Propelled by a pair of five segment boosters and four RS-25 engines, the rocket will reach the period of greatest atmospheric force within 90 seconds, NASA says. After jettisoning its boosters, service module panels, and launch abort system, the core stage engines will shut down. At that point, the core stage will separate from the Orion spacecraft.
The Orion moonship is known officially as the Orion Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle or Orion MPCV. It’ll go to Earth orbit atop of SLS following launch. There, it’ll deploy its solar arrays and the Interim Cryogenic Propulsion Stage (ICPS) that’ll give the craft the big push needed to leave Earth’s orbit and travel toward the moon.
Orion already underwent an Earth-orbiting test in 2014, so this isn’t its first voyage to space. But it is its first trip to the moon, and it’ll get there via propulsion by a service module provided by the European Space Agency. The service module will supply the spacecraft’s main propulsion system and power (as well as house air and water for astronauts on future missions).
Orion will fly as close to the moon’s surface as about 62 miles (100 km). It’ll use the moon’s gravity to propel itself into an orbit about 40,000 miles (70,000 km) from the moon.
The spacecraft will stay in that orbit for about six days, collecting data. During that time, mission controllers will assess its performance. Then it’ll perform a second close flyby of the moon, coming within about 60 miles (100 km). Another precisely timed engine firing of the European-provided service module – in combination with the moon’s gravity – will accelerate the moonship back toward Earth. It’ll enter our planet’s atmosphere traveling at 25,000 mph (11 km/second), producing temperatures of approximately 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit (2,760 degrees Celsius). So it’ll go faster – and get hotter – than during its 2014 flight test.
In all, the mission will last about a month and travel a distance of 1.3 million miles. It’s expected to make a precision landing within eyesight of the recovery ship off the coast of Baja, California.
Last edited by markrlondon; 13th November 2022 at 22:29. Reason: Thread replaced
Should be spectacular, looking forward to watching clips on the news etc. They say it’s NASAs most powerful rocket, even bigger than the Saturn 5s used on Apollo.
Let’s hope this leads to something and who knows, Omega might even release a limited edition to celebrate it
Numbers do not compute.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
A screenshot just now from the NASA Youtube feed embedded above:
I'll be watching but it has taken NASA 11 years to build this and now they can't afford to fly it. It took NASA 11 years to get to the moon from nothing the first time around. The SLS even reuses Shuttle technology in its engines and booster system.
Plenty of 'white elephant' articles if you Google. It is almost like SpaceX doesn't exist. I believe they will have the same lift capacity at one tenth the launch price within a year or two.
I don’t get this at all. With all the advancements in tech in the last 53 years we still have to send mannequins to the moon.
I admit I'm a complete technical numpty, but why is this such a big deal when it was done over 50 years ago with a tiny fraction of the technology that's available today?
Yup, I totally agree. This is way behind schedule, over budget, generally old tech concepts.Originally Posted by Gruntfuttock
But that's government for you in the modern age, especially US federal government projects.
All the same.... here it is. And it's worth being excited about.
As for SpaceX, no they've not been forgotten. They will be going there too, more cheaply and perhaps even more quickly than Artemis can get actual real humans there. That is a spectacularly good thing and it will be celebrated in due course.
But right now, today, NASA and Artemis have their limelight and, as I say, it is worth being excited about.
Cynicism should be put aside for now so as to enjoy the achievement (and despite the tech base and the cost it is a significant achievement).
Last edited by markrlondon; 29th August 2022 at 09:49.
The technology and ability to do it was shelved (and actively destroyed in some cases). That's governments for you.
In the 50 years since, the primary interest has been launches to Earth orbit and non-human-rated probes to the solar system.
And so to re-create a very large capacity, human-rated, launch and travel system that can get a major payload to the Moon and bring it back, and to develop it not quite from scratch (but from smaller principles nonetheless), definitely is a big deal.
It is well worth being excited about.
Nevertheless, it's pretty clear that this technology is now looking outmoded. To throw away four of the unbelievably complex and valuable RS-25 engines for each launch is close to insanity in today's economic climate. The Shuttle brought its three RS-25 engines back! Even the Saturn V had a proposed (but unfunded) fly-back idea for the S-IC first stage so as to recover the five F-1 engines. The Shuttle programme was also able to recover its SRBs whereas the Artemis/SLS SRBs will (as far as I know) just be expended and lost.
Because of all this, it seems to me that Artemis/SLS in its current configuration is only ever going to be a stopgap measure. It is too old (despite being brand new albeit built on the basis of older Shuttle-era tech) and way too expensive.
But don't ever think it was easy or simple. This is still a massive and genuinely great achievement (assuming it works!). It is worth celebrating. But as a step, not as a goal.
It's just a step on the way. The real way forward lies with the private sector, not least SpaceX. They might (if not hampered or even destroyed by federal US meddling) make it to the Moon (i.e. an actual landing), Mars, and solar system first. And do it more cheaply and efficiently.
I am reminded of R100 versus R101.
Last edited by markrlondon; 29th August 2022 at 09:54.
Oh great... people can't pay for the cooking bill, let alone this winter's fuel bill and this is going on, contributing to Net Zero magnificently.
People made similar complaints about the Apollo programme in the 1960s. There were protests when the rockets were being launched.Oh great... people can't pay for the cooking bill, let alone this winter's fuel bill and this is going on, contributing to Net Zero magnificently.
Now we look back on a magnificent achievement, and rightly so.
Despite this project being over budget and using what now looks like old tech, it is still a great achievement.
It doesn't matter what other difficulties and concerns there may be in the world, real or imagined or invented. This does matter. It is what humanity is really about.
This is not the time for cynicism. That only holds us back.
Current NASA TV stream:
Other streams:
NASA Live: Official Stream of NASA TV's Media Channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA9U...b_channel=NASA
[4K] LIVE 3.5 miles from NASA's most powerful rocket ever!!!
(a private stream)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9x-...rydayAstronaut
Last edited by markrlondon; 29th August 2022 at 12:48.
Mission scrub for today due to the engine technical issues. Nasa has two back-up dates ready: 2 September and 5 September.
Drat. Launch for today has been scrubbed due to "engine bleed could not be remedied". Wrong values on a test.
Oh well. Next launch window opportunity is now 2nd September but depends on fixing the engine issue.
Better this than a rapid unplanned disassembly.
Shame it's scrubbed, better safe than sorry when you've the equivalent thrust of 60 Concords taking off at once😮
Looking at Artemis I Mission Availability and in particular artemis_i_mission_availability_aug2022.pdf (linked from that page) it would appear that today was the only date in August available for a "long mission". 02 to 06 September are all similarly suitable...fingers crossed.Drat. Launch for today has been scrubbed due to "engine bleed could not be remedied". Wrong values on a test.
Oh well. Next launch window opportunity is now 2nd September but depends on fixing the engine issue.
Better this than a rapid unplanned disassembly.
Launch postponed.
My daughter in law works at the space centre so will get a close up video of the launch.
When she sends it to me I'll post it up.
Cheers,
Neil.
Excellent!
Link:
The next launch opportunity is no earlier than Sept. 2, because of Orion performance constraints that rule out launches on Aug. 30, 31 and Sept. 1. A two-hour launch window opens at 12:48 p.m. Eastern and would set up a 39-day mission for the Orion spacecraft. A third window, 90 minutes long is available Sept. 5 starting at 5:12 p.m. Eastern.
I make those:
Fr 02 Sep 16:48-18:48 GMT 17:48-19:48 BST 12:48-14:48 EDT
and
Mo 05 Sep 21:12-22:42 GMT 22:12-23:42 BST 17:12-18:42 EDT
Assuming they could fix it on pad they’ll be stuffed after those dates as the FTS (flight termination system) to detonate it if it goes off course already had a waiver extending the 20 day lifetime to 25 to allow the last date. It needs to go back to the VAB to replace it. The next window is Sept 20 to Oct 4 and they probably can’t turn around that quick.
Fun fact I did not realise is that Artemis was the twin sister of Apollo which is neat.
Well spotted. Very apt naming.
Link:
NASA will target Saturday, Sept. 3 at 2:17 p.m. EDT, the beginning of a two-hour window, for the launch of Artemis I...
...that's 19:17 BST.
Artemis 1 on Saturday, Mission Timer on Sunday. Good timing.
If I were a betting man, I know which I'd take as a near certainty.
My daughter in law just sent me a snap.
Cheers,
Neil.
Thank you (and thank you to your DiL!) for that.
No problem.Thank you (and thank you to your DiL!) for that.
Hopefully she'll get a launch video if it's not at some unearthly time.
Cheers,
Neil.
Gotta love rocket launches!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here's a previous launch she filmed. Nowhere as dramatic as Artemis will be though.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3fWP049IlAQ
Last edited by Neil.C; 31st August 2022 at 15:05.
Cheers,
Neil.
Thank you that. It really is unbelievably cool. I think "awesome", a much overused word, is wholly appropriate for a rocket launch.
Fingers crossed all goes well today!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ah yes, let's hope it goes well this time.
Lunch window begins at 18:33 UTC (19:33 BST UK).
I'll update the thread title.
** Correction **
Lunch window begins at 18:17 UTC (19:17 BST UK).
Last edited by markrlondon; 3rd September 2022 at 12:56.
Places to watch it.
'Artemis I Launch to the Moon (Official NASA Broadcast)' (NASA)
'NASA Launches Artemis I to the Moon Aboard SLS' (NASASpaceflight)
'[4K] LIVE 3.5 miles from NASA's most powerful rocket ever!!! Artemis 1!!' (Everyday Astronaut)
That's a change...I was relying on this NASA blog...I assume times are EDT (BST -5, UT - 4):
September 3, 2022 7:24 am
Engineers detected a liquid hydrogen leak in a quick disconnect cavity and have stopped flowing the propellant to the core stage while they troubleshoot. Launch controllers are attempting to warm up the quick disconnect to attempt to reseat it to get a tight seal. Liquid oxygen flow is continuing.
September 2, 2022 10:46 am
Following the Artemis I pre-launch briefing, meteorologists with the U.S. Space Force Space Launch Delta 45 predict a 60% chance of favorable weather conditions at the beginning of the two-hour launch window that opens at 2:17 p.m. EDT Sept 3, increasing to an 80% chance of favorable weather conditions toward the later part of the window. The primary weather concern for the two-hour launch window remains scattered rain showers. The weather guidelines for NASA’s Artemis I flight test identify conditions to launch the agency’s Space Launch System (SLS) and Orion spacecraft.
I took 18:33 UTC from the official NASA broadcast description at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMLD...b_channel=NASA.
A more careful reading shows that it currently reads: "Liftoff is from Launch Pad 39B at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The two-hour launch window opens at 2:17 p.m. EDT (18:33 UTC) Saturday, Sept. 3."
Looks like a typo somewhere.
I guess the correct time for the launch window begins at 14:17 EDT, so 18:17 UTC, 19:17 BST.
** Correction **
AS I WAS WRITING THE ABOVE, the description on the NASA official feed was corrected! It now reads: "Liftoff is scheduled for a two-hour window that opens Saturday, Sep 3 2022 at 2:17 PM (18:17 UTC) from LC-39B, Kennedy Space Center, Florida."
Last edited by markrlondon; 3rd September 2022 at 12:55.
I understand that they are still working on the liquid hydrogen leak. Let's hope they get it sorted out in time to finish filling to hit the two hour launch window.
8:09 am EDT Launch controllers have resumed flow of liquid hydrogen to the core stage after warming up a quick disconnect in the engine section where a hydrogen leak was detected in the cavity between the ground and flight side plates of the quick disconnect. Teams warmed up the quick disconnect to attempt to reseat it and set a proper seal.
Last edited by PickleB; 3rd September 2022 at 13:55. Reason: correct the time
That was "8:09 am" wasn't it. Either way, it's good news.
Watching venting of LOX on the NASASpaceflight feed at the moment. I always think that venting like this is very Thunderbirds-ish. ;-)
Oops...you're right. A bit of trouble with cut and paste on my part.
Worryingly, the LH fill number doesn't seem to be increasing. It's stuck at 8%.
Ah, just saw this on the blog. :-(
Rachel Kraft
Posted onSeptember 3, 2022 8:53 am
As engineers increased the pressure on the flow of liquid hydrogen into the core stage, a leak reoccurred. Engineers will attempt to reseat the seal in the quick disconnect cavity where the leak has been detected. This time they will stop flowing liquid hydrogen to the tank, close the valve used to fill and drain it, then increase pressure on a ground transfer line using helium to to try to reseal it.
Launch controllers are continuing to flow liquid oxygen to the core stage.
My gut feeling is that today is going to end in a scrub.
And LH is flowing again...
Rachel Kraft
Posted onSeptember 3, 2022 9:23 am
Launch controllers have started flowing liquid hydrogen to the core stage again after troubleshooting the reoccurrence of a leak. This time engineers attempted to reseat the seal in a quick disconnect cavity where the leak occurred by applying pressure to it with helium.
Looking at the engineering cam and no idea if it's important or not but there is what appears to be a crack/leak in the foam near one of the quick release connections. Let's hope it's condensation, not a crack in the actual underlying tank.
** additional **
And at 14:31 I hear that NASASpaceflight are announcing that the LH fill troubleshooting hasn't succeeded. So they've stopped pumping in LH. :-(
Where are you seeing the state of fuelling online, please?
Watch the NASASpaceflight live feed on Youtube. They are cycling through NASA's engineering cams (very interesting) as well as a fuelling status screen. The fuelling status screen comes up every few mins.
Liquid hydrogen got up from 8% to 10% at the last fuelling attempt but it's now stuck on 10% (last time I looked) due to the continuing leak problem.
Thanks for that.
Also the Everyday Astronaut feed seems to have gone live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv4F...rydayAstronaut
Also showing engineering cam feeds.
Seems that LOX is full, LH still troubleshooting.
(As per my earlier comment, there's still time to sort out the leak and fill the LH tank but I can't help but feel that this is building up to a scrub. :-( )
https://blogs.nasa.gov/artemis/2022/...-in-replenish/
Rachel Kraft
Posted on September 3, 2022 10:12 am
Engineers are continuing troubleshooting efforts to address a liquid hydrogen leak in a cavity in the quick disconnect where the flight side and ground side plates join. They once again will attempt to warm up the quick disconnect to try to reset the seal.
The liquid oxygen tank of the core stage is full and is being replenished as some of the super cooled propellant boils off.
Next windows are 05 Sep (90 mins) and 06 Sep (27 mins) according to the commenter on the YouTube link you gave me.
Yup. Fingers crossed for today.
There is a severe risk that political issues could start to come into play if this doesn't go well. The pressure on everyone involved must be astronomical (pun not intended).
Oops...10:28 am EDT "Liquid Hydrogen Leak Detected Once Again...After the third troubleshooting attempt, the liquid hydrogen leak has occurred again. Teams are discussing next steps."
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