Reply With QuoteOh contraire! There’s also some sage advice that when you’re keen crawling you should watch out for plain clothes policewoman in disguise…Originally Posted by wits
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Good point
Oh contraire! There’s also some sage advice that when you’re keen crawling you should watch out for plain clothes policewoman in disguise…
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I suspect Rolex are not threatened about their designs being faked as it simply doesn’t threaten their business, by that I mean anyone who really wants a Rolex and has the funds will buy one (Rolex game aside) and not lower themselves to a fake watch.
I do wonder how many genuine watches have been purchased off the back of fakes/homages, a lot of owners must have a genuine interest in the real watch so as time goes by this builds as does funds and leads to the grail being purchased..
Just ask Chris Kibble for his story.
He made the transition from dealer of fakes to dealer of authentic watches (or maybe he is stuck somewhere in the middle as he seems to dabble in both).
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Classic example there by DJCK!
It’s a bit like drug dealers that morph into a genuine business built off the back of dirty cash..
Like starting off selling smack but progressing to a legit friendly local aspirin seller?
Last edited by Sinnlover; 12th December 2021 at 10:28.
No, the average drug lord will morph into a real estate investor.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Oh that’s where I got it wrong…
Or crypto moon lord..
Our used car/watch trader
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I believe Messrs. Kray, Kray and Kray, Purveyors of the Finest in Evening Entertainments, attempted to travel a similar route some years ago.
F.T.F.A.
Ofcourse it is and some believe people but Rolex for movement decoration. Lol!
I'm not so sure.
I would guess that the majority of the fake products available are just bought by chavvy people who want to look the part.
They probably have no more interest in paying out for a genuine Rolex as they would have for their fake Burberry cap, RL shirt etc etc.
Cheers,
Neil.
[QUOTE=Neil.C;5891691]I'm not so sure.
I would guess that the majority of the fake products available are just bought by chavvy people who want to look the part.
Agreed. IMO the buyers of a fake Rolex are not interested in ownership, but rather appearing to have a Rolex.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I do confess that it was a fake Speedmaster that got me into watches back in 2005. I think my friend had just bought a Breitling and, as I couldn’t afford one, I went for what I considered to be the next best thing (not knowing anything about how little a quality watch can actually cost - Hamiltons etc…).
But there was zero satisfaction from it; it was a decent fake but it was basically junk and just knowing it was fake made it feel wrong. Can’t really put it into words but it just felt hollow, maybe because I valued quality, reliability and dependability and this guaranteed none of those.
I genuinely don’t remember my motivations behind buying a fake Omega, other than not being able to afford the real thing. Given that I binned it and immediately started owning and enjoying everything from Invictas to Hamiltons I honestly don’t think it was about image.
Anyway, it all snowballed from there and many tens of thousands of pounds later I am where I am. The Swiss watch industry has done very well out of that one fake Speedmaster.
But yeah, the only reason you’d have a fake is to appear more successful than you are. I’m very much of the opinion that fakes are theft of intellectual property. Annoys me in the same way as when I see crap Chinese copies of Range Rover Evoques and Western fighter jets - just lazy because you’re not good enough to design, build and succeed yourself. Pathetic.
Personally i don't like homages as in my eyes there replicas, but legit because there not true replicas/fakes.
Thank you :)
Actually I think homages are replicas, they are replicating another watch with many quite exact of the original design bar the branding, I cant see how it can be explained that Seestern are not replicating Doxa?
I like the Seestern, quite fancy trying one but I'm under no illusion its replicating a design of a classic watch..
Copying a design doesn’t make it a replica. Designs are either protected in law or they’re not, and we all know what makes a fake (i.e. a replica) a fake.Actually I think homages are replicas, they are replicating another watch with many quite exact of the original design bar the branding, I cant see how it can be explained that Seestern are not replicating Doxa?
I like the Seestern, quite fancy trying one but I'm under no illusion its replicating a design of a classic watch..
How is that a replica?Actually I think homages are replicas, they are replicating another watch with many quite exact of the original design bar the branding, I cant see how it can be explained that Seestern are not replicating Doxa?
I like the Seestern, quite fancy trying one but I'm under no illusion its replicating a design of a classic watch..
The minute hand is a full millimeter shorter and there is a different number in the small white square next to the crown (16 vs 13).
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I do not understand the buying of a fake to wear instead of your genuine Rolex ( other brands available ) when in a situation that you don't feel safe wearing an expensive watch. I just wear my timex when I am going out drinking or in London.
You're misinterpreting the word replica and putting it in the same box as fake, Seestern, San Martin etc etc are replicas of another design or should we call it a copy, not fake but they are replicating/copying another design..
I agree I work with a skinflint wannabe tw-t that used to bring fake ice watches in to work to sell and buying fake Northface logos off the internet to stick on his primark down jackets can’t remember it ever leading to him buying the real thing
Replica has nothing to do with breaching somebody else's legal rights.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Exactly, replica and fake are two totally different words with different meanings but in the watch world both words have somehow morphed into one another..Replica has nothing to do with breaching somebody else's legal rights.
Replica and fake are not mutually exclusive terms as I mentioned on page 1.
A watch can be a replica and not a fake, if it copies completely the design of the original but doesn't claim to be the real deal (different brand).
A watch can be a fake and not a replica, there's plenty of dodgy 'Rolex' watches that look nothing like anything to ever come out of a Rolex factory.
A watch can be a replica and a fake, which would be the case of the watch in the OP.
A homage in my opinion takes heavy design cues from another brand but are still subtly different. Although some will use homage and replica interchangeably.
My 2 cents.
You should have expected your post to be forensically-dissected………………Actually I think homages are replicas, they are replicating another watch with many quite exact of the original design bar the branding, I cant see how it can be explained that Seestern are not replicating Doxa?
I like the Seestern, quite fancy trying one but I'm under no illusion its replicating a design of a classic watch..
I’m with you, on what I interpret you to mean>. That Seestern has copied the DOXA and changed a couple of minor details to take advantage of the DOXA’s popular ‘look’.
There are makers out there who take ‘design cues’ from classics, but that Seestern ain’t one - they have copied every significant feature of the DOXA, So I would label it a ‘Copy’ .
Please forgive me if I am getting the complete wrong end of the stick here, but what is a TST if not a homage / replica of a Tuna?
They are not a tuna to start with, the tuna case is not a Seiko case. It’s making a Seiko watch look like another Seiko. So therefore a homage.
Again sorry if I have got this completely wrong.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 12th December 2021 at 21:07.
Personally I think this was a seminal work.
Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves
Well, I’ve always equated “replica” with “fake”, and whatever the dictionary definition I still maintain that’s the modern usage - hence The Replica Watch Forum, the natural home for those who collect and deal in fake watches here in the UK.
As an aside, I think it’s pretty disingenuous of members here to slag off homages whilst actually on this forum. Seriously!
Yes the Replica Watch Forum, a good choice of wording from them! Now if their forum was about Seesterns, Parnis and other lookalikes then it would be fine but we all know that is not the case, it should be called the Fake Watch Forum but people dont really like the word fake do they..
Also who are you referring too about slagging off homages?
He was a David Bowie copyist 😆Personally I think this was a seminal work.
Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves
The only problem is with substandard fakes. A perfect fake would not be detectable.
Are your Friends electric ?Personally I think this was a seminal work.
Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves
On occasion.
Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves
Thats interesting, I think of them as a mod but................don't know, I shall think on that.
I suppose every watch made is a copy/replica/homage of the first pocket watch that some guy fitted to his wrist but with modifications and different bits and bobs, complications.
To complex for my ageing mind.
ps: Thank goodness in the main we all enjoy watches :)
So true and we see enough of that on this thread already.
Fake/ replica are interchangeable terms as far as watches are concerned and everyone knows what they are referring to.
I don’t know why people feel obliged to have this debate over and over again.
Fake and replica same thing
Homage and copy same thing- doesn’t make an iota of difference if it is an existing model or a retired one.
Fake/replica- not ok
Homage/copy- ok though people are free to dislike/be uncomfortable with the idea.
Good summary.
No.
The fakes-industry has chosen to use "replica", but that is the wrong term.
It's not for them or you to define what a replica is versus a fake.
Just read M1011's post above, he gives the proper definitions of all relevant terms.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I’d say that the homage industry has chosen to use the word homage but that is also the wrong term.
You are just falling for the apologists of the fakes-sector. They invented this so that they don't have to use the word fake.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
We should call them out that they cannot use the term replica, as that is not what they are doing. They are trivialising the nature of their crime and we should not let them get away with it.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I agree with all of that.
I was not trying to dig you out. The TST is a mod but by modding it you are making a homage of another watch in my opinion. At least the TST uses an original watch and parts as a base and it is in no way designed to deceive.
I agree we all enjoy watches and it can sometimes be a grey area.
Back on subject.
To my mind a fake is a watch with the same design with someone else’s trade mark / name on the dial. It is design to deceive, it is designed to make money for the maker by using someone else’s design, effort and IP.
The only reason for owning a fake is for the wearer to pass themselves off as something else. There was a lad in the pub yesterday, around 20 years of age, on his wrist was a fake SDDSJC. I am pretty sure this lad could not afford the real thing, but he was flashing it around to his mates like he was the bee knees, trying to chat up the bar maid (to be fair I try as well) he was wearing it because it got the adoration of his mates. Will he go on to buy the real thing? Hard to say but I wouldn’t have thought so. (Based on the demographic of my local)
I don’t have an issue with homages - I own some. They are perfectly fine as long as there is enough of a difference to ensure they cannot be passed off as something else, or if they homage a watch long out of production, but again it must be clear that they are not an original. Not just the name on the dial but in elements of their design
Guinalt is a brand that for me does not sit right at all. Nothing about the design is theirs, nor have they made an effort to change anything bar the dial name to ensure it cannot be passed off as something else. Again not sure but there must be numerous patent / TM infringements on the them such as the clasp. I have no proof but I suspect they are made in the same factory as the ‘high end / expensive’ fakes.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 13th December 2021 at 09:34.
Whether you like it or not the homage is a look a like even with its correct name on the dial. Its purpose is to deceive others into thinking you are wearing a higher quality watch than what you actually are. Unless they actually stare at it from a distance of say 6" or engage you in a conversation they will think it's the original watch which has the same effect as a fake.
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