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Thread: Amazon Alexa "tin foil hat time"?

  1. #51
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    I saw an article the other day that essentially said something like the marketing big data picks up which phones you hang around with and shares their marketing suggestions/recent purchases with you. So if they’ve been Googling Uranus and then chat to you about it and you start seeing ads that might be a reason.

    I have no idea but that made sense and was marginally less creepy.


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  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    I keep getting adverts for penis reduction surgery.

    How odd.
    I'd hope they would be able to make it even TBH. ;)

  3. #53
    Master Yorkshiremadmick's Avatar
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    I was forever getting targeted ads via Facebook
    Don’t have any listening devices other than iPhone. I’ve deleted Google and installed DuckDuckGo

    Hallelujah no more tracking adds , just random non targeted ones.


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  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Halitosis View Post
    But almost everyone has a mobile phone, and they listen too (I was in a pub garden with friends when we did the Namibia experiment)


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    Tried that while out and about, no Facebook ads unfortunately but a few people did stop to ask if I was ok, needed any help….

    Can’t get that song Africa by Toto out of my head either!

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeveal View Post
    It strikes me that there are two major differences between our world and the one that Orwell wrote about in 1984.

    Firstly, it's not the governments that are listening to your conversations, it's the corporations. Arguably the corporations have more influence.

    Secondly, in 1984, party members are forced to accept telescreens, proles aren't monitored & no-one bellyfeels the telescreens.

    Oh Alexa, how double-plus-ungood.
    Great point, I don't think many would have anticipated how we would have welcomed all of this data gathering & surveillance etc. with open arms. We've productised ourselves

  6. #56
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Everyone should watch this.

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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkshiremadmick View Post
    I was forever getting targeted ads via Facebook
    Don’t have any listening devices other than iPhone. I’ve deleted Google and installed DuckDuckGo

    Hallelujah no more tracking adds , just random non targeted ones.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    Been loving duckduckgo. Still feel like googles just the tip of the iceberg for me though. Maybe its time to go back to the trusty 3310

  8. #58
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    I'm not too bothered by it, saying that I bought a second hand iMac the other day and the owner in his 50's had a little removable sticker over the camera, said he didn't trust it so kept it covered up, maybe they are not only listening but also watching!

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    I'm not too bothered by it, saying that I bought a second hand iMac the other day and the owner in his 50's had a little removable sticker over the camera, said he didn't trust it so kept it covered up, maybe they are not only listening but also watching!
    Zuck covers the mic too and uses Thunderbird for email. Pic attached.

    James Comey also does - https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-...-webcam-2016-9

    I thought most people covered their webcam now.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    I keep getting adverts for penis reduction surgery.

    How odd.

    Sounds like someone’s popping round while you are at work!

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    I'm not too bothered by it, saying that I bought a second hand iMac the other day and the owner in his 50's had a little removable sticker over the camera, said he didn't trust it so kept it covered up, maybe they are not only listening but also watching!
    Was there not a school in America a few years back who got into trouble because they remote switched on the cameras in the laptops they had given out to students to check they were doing their homework?

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Zuck covers the mic too and uses Thunderbird for email. Pic attached.

    James Comey also does - https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-...-webcam-2016-9

    I thought most people covered their webcam now.
    Interesting, what’s the Thunderbird for email about?

    We stare into our phone (like I am now) with a camera looking right at me and a mic, also most of us will have email on mobile too and god knows what other personal info, like I said I’m not too concerned if big brother is watching, I’m not particularly interesting and don’t have anything to hide.

    Apparently this is where all our data goes for storage - Switch, Las Vegas.


  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Interesting, what’s the Thunderbird for email about?

    We stare into our phone (like I am now) with a camera looking right at me and a mic, also most of us will have email on mobile too and god knows what other personal info, like I said I’m not too concerned if big brother is watching, I’m not particularly interesting and don’t have anything to hide.

    Apparently this is where all our data goes for storage - Switch, Las Vegas.
    Thunderbird is just an email client like Outlook or Mail but with a focus on privacy, lack of bloat and has a load of good extensions.

    Bit redundant as I use my phone 99.9% of the time and only use my personal laptop a handful of times per year but "every little helps" I guess.

    I've recently got a Proton email account but haven't used it yet as I want to double check on storage/fees first.

  14. #64
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    We stare into our phone (like I am now) with a camera looking right at me and a mic, also most of us will have email on mobile too and god knows what other personal info, like I said I’m not too concerned if big brother is watching, I’m not particularly interesting and don’t have anything to hide.
    This is the best attitude if you have a smartphone. You will never, ever know whether you have a Remote Access Trojan installed that can turn on and off the camera and microphone, monitor your GPS location, look at your unencrypted messages, e-mails, browser history and saved images. There are some that can even insert messages to make them look as though they originated from you and modify browser history.

    Droidjack is just one example, inexpensive and impossible to detect. Popular with suspicious spouses.

    RATs can be installed via many routes such as malicious hyperlinks, fake public WiFi hotspots and convenient free charging points.

    Despite popular myth iPhones are not immune. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49520355
    Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimforthebushes View Post
    Been loving duckduckgo. Still feel like googles just the tip of the iceberg for me though. Maybe its time to go back to the trusty 3310
    Yep


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  16. #66
    As previously mentioned watch this channel:

    https://youtube.com/c/BraxMe

    Also this one:

    https://youtube.com/c/TheHatedOne

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    I keep getting adverts for penis reduction surgery.

    How odd.
    Well, you did mention your fondness for an Arabian method of manhood enlargement. Perhaps the algorithm thinks you've overdone it?
    ______

    ​Jim.

  18. #68
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    If my smart TV was listening to me watching BBC news - BoJo would be getting pop-up adverts for flak-jackets!

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    We stare into our phone (like I am now) with a camera looking right at me and a mic, also most of us will have email on mobile too and god knows what other personal info, like I said I’m not too concerned if big brother is watching, I’m not particularly interesting and don’t have anything to hide.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    This is the best attitude if you have a smartphone.
    Only if living in a house built of one-way mirrors is your kind of thing, too.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    I'm not too bothered by it, saying that I bought a second hand iMac the other day and the owner in his 50's had a little removable sticker over the camera, said he didn't trust it so kept it covered up, maybe they are not only listening but also watching!
    we got them free when we went to a work security seminar. A lot of us added them to our work machines - excellent for zoom calls to black out when munching at the desk after a liquid lunch.
    “ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG

  21. #71
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    It must be tough being forced to buy all of the stuff from targeted ads.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    I keep getting adverts for penis reduction surgery.

    How odd.
    Me too, I put it down to me saying "Oh here's that enormous dick, again" whenever Boris Johnson appears...

    M
    Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?

  23. #73
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    I just ignore any/all adverts, the ones on the telly too although much is downloaded so ad free anyway.

  24. #74
    Wouldn't have any of these in my Alexa thingys in my house.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover View Post
    I've been telling my Echo Dot, without invoking the "wake" word (ie when it's not supposed to be listening), about my need for a particular consumer item every now and then for two days now. So far I haven't seen any relevant ads pop up anywhere, but I'll keep going.
    So, I did this. I continued for about a week or so, not every day but most days. I was careful to choose an item that I hadn't recently googled, or seen on a website, or searched anywhere on the World Wide Web. It was a dog collar. I don't have a dog and I don't spend my spare time watching dog videos on YouTube or anything like that. I was very careful never to mention dog collars when it was in "listen" mode, but when it wasn't supposed to be listening I'd occasionally say "I wish I had a dog collar" or "I want a dog collar" or "I really need a dog collar". This is the first time since I had the idea that I've referred to dog collars anywhere online.

    I never saw an ad for a dog collar, and I still haven't.

    But yesterday the yellow notification light flashed on the Dot on my desk.

    "Alexa, what are my notifications?" I enquired.

    "Your package including pet collar is due to arrive today", was the reply. Unfortunately I was distracted by something else at work at the same time and never checked my orders. I've just checked them and can find no reference to a pet collar. Certainly, I haven't received one.

    Odd, eh?

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover View Post
    So, I did this. I continued for about a week or so, not every day but most days. I was careful to choose an item that I hadn't recently googled, or seen on a website, or searched anywhere on the World Wide Web. It was a dog collar. I don't have a dog and I don't spend my spare time watching dog videos on YouTube or anything like that. I was very careful never to mention dog collars when it was in "listen" mode, but when it wasn't supposed to be listening I'd occasionally say "I wish I had a dog collar" or "I want a dog collar" or "I really need a dog collar". This is the first time since I had the idea that I've referred to dog collars anywhere online.

    I never saw an ad for a dog collar, and I still haven't.

    But yesterday the yellow notification light flashed on the Dot on my desk.

    "Alexa, what are my notifications?" I enquired.

    "Your package including pet collar is due to arrive today", was the reply. Unfortunately I was distracted by something else at work at the same time and never checked my orders. I've just checked them and can find no reference to a pet collar. Certainly, I haven't received one.

    Odd, eh?
    I’ve sent you my dog collar as per the other thread.

    You start this Sunday.

  27. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by mart broad View Post
    They all data mine Alexa , phone et all but sorry got to go my Russian Twins have just turned up.

    Thanks W Alexa
    Chortle!

  28. #78
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    I’m sure it’s mainly linked to FB - I don’t partake on any social media - but a friend who has FB constantly get ad contain items we’ve discussed

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    I've recently got a Proton email account but haven't used it yet as I want to double check on storage/fees first.
    I have a Proton paid account that I use for anything financial ... that address is only used with a few institutions who you'd hope would have good security.

    My normal business email is used for everything else ... I get hardly any email on the Proton email and all of them are expected emails. Nice to not expose any financial assets to my business email which is all over the place.

  30. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    This is very tin foil hat I'll admit but I'm sure Edward Snowdon said part of the reason big tech get away with not paying tax (or anywhere near the correct amount) is because they give wide open backdoors to the gov via programs like PRISM. He also said this is why phones don't have removable batteries anymore. Cameras, mics, GPS can all be turned on even if the phone is "off".
    That is an interesting, if terrifying, thought.

    Having lived in Cheltenham and knowing some people who work there (if you get my meaning) then trust me they can listen, read, intercept and generally bug anyone, anywhere, any time. But even they are impressed with the Israelis: their outfit (starts with an "M") gets a lot of respect from the spooks. But when you've been the most hated race on earth for 4,000 years you probably want to be good at knowing what your enemies (and even your friends) are thinking.

    I use a burner phone and dead letter drops. (Not really. I'm easy to find and have, sadly, little to hide. I don't even like porn or fiddle my expenses. Horribly boring, really. I really should get some vices, even just vanilla ones. then maybe I could work up to more exotic sins.)

  31. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    That is an interesting, if terrifying, thought.

    Having lived in Cheltenham and knowing some people who work there (if you get my meaning) then trust me they can listen, read, intercept and generally bug anyone, anywhere, any time. But even they are impressed with the Israelis: their outfit (starts with an "M") gets a lot of respect from the spooks. But when you've been the most hated race on earth for 4,000 years you probably want to be good at knowing what your enemies (and even your friends) are thinking.

    I use a burner phone and dead letter drops. (Not really. I'm easy to find and have, sadly, little to hide. I don't even like porn or fiddle my expenses. Horribly boring, really. I really should get some vices, even just vanilla ones. then maybe I could work up to more exotic sins.)
    Well, given your vocation, aren't you off to heaven whatever you do Rev?

  32. #82
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    I really should get some vices, even just vanilla ones. then maybe I could work up to more exotic sins.)
    You're not going to work your passage to Craggy Island with thinking like that.

  33. #83
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    That is an interesting, if terrifying, thought.

    Having lived in Cheltenham and knowing some people who work there (if you get my meaning) then trust me they can listen, read, intercept and generally bug anyone, anywhere, any time. But even they are impressed with the Israelis: their outfit (starts with an "M") gets a lot of respect from the spooks. But when you've been the most hated race on earth for 4,000 years you probably want to be good at knowing what your enemies (and even your friends) are thinking.

    I use a burner phone and dead letter drops. (Not really. I'm easy to find and have, sadly, little to hide. I don't even like porn or fiddle my expenses. Horribly boring, really. I really should get some vices, even just vanilla ones. then maybe I could work up to more exotic sins.)
    I know two people who work there. Nice people but definitely on the spectrum.

    No coincidence that when the FBI can't unlock a mass shooter's iPhone they go to the Israelis to get it done. They are on a different level than the rest of the world when it comes to tech in that arena. Very impressive.
    Last edited by wileeeeeey; 5th August 2021 at 21:13.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    I know two people who work there. Nice people but definitely on the spectrum.

    No coincidence that when the FBI can't unlock a mass shooter's iPhone they go to the Israelis to get it done. They are on a different level than the rest of the world when it comes to tech in that arena. Very impressive.
    There drone and military system upgrades are really impressive, they still look at it as a necessity rather than a financial thing.


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  35. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha4 View Post
    Well, given your vocation, aren't you off to heaven whatever you do Rev?
    I’m off to heaven on basis of what Christ did for me, my current and future standing with God is, thankfully, not changed for better or worse by anything I do or don’t do. He’s paid for my ticket. Yours too if you want it.

    Re batteries in phones: my wife’s Fair Phone has a removable one. It’s actually a really cool piece of kit
    Last edited by Rev-O; 6th August 2021 at 09:31.

  36. #86
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    Assuming we all live "normal", crime-free lives I don't see a problem. Even by being on this internet forum you are being tracked somewhere, by someone. Apple have just announced that they will be monitoring iPhones for child-porn in the next iteration of their OS and that the technology can track other things such as financial transactions etc if they wanted, or were allowed to do it. And if that is what they have publicly announced, just think of the surveillance capability they are keeping secret.

    You can either welcome the internet into your life or switch everything off and stay in the cave. (Even my TV and fridge are listening to me typing this!)

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMike View Post
    (Even my TV and fridge are listening to me typing this!)
    Hatching their evil schemes, today you, tomorrow the world!

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk

  38. #88
    Grand Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKMike View Post
    Assuming we all live "normal", crime-free lives I don't see a problem. Even by being on this internet forum you are being tracked somewhere, by someone
    I think this is a legitimate concern though. There is no guarantee that what is considered normal and crime-free now could still be normal and crime-free in the future. All it takes is a shift towards authoritarian rule and they have to tools to really keep the population under heavy surveillance and punish dissenters.

    In a coronavirus-2050 scenario, Alexa could monitor your movements and contact the authority if you broke a lockdown rule, for example stayed out longer than 1-hour for exercise.
    Last edited by Christian; 6th August 2021 at 11:17.

  39. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    I’m off to heaven on basis of what Christ did for me, my current and future standing with God is, thankfully, not changed for better or worse by anything I do or don’t do. He’s paid for my ticket. Yours too if you want it.
    Please take this silliness to BP so people can respond adequately.


  40. #90
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodia77 View Post
    Please take this silliness to BP so people can respond adequately.
    Well done on winning the tasteless post of the week award. Your trophy is in the post.

  41. #91
    I don't believe any of this is true. If it was, why would Bill Gates and the other tech guru's be using the Coronavirus vaccine to put mini racking and bugging devices into our bodies?

  42. #92

    Hello

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Curta View Post
    This is the best attitude if you have a smartphone. You will never, ever know whether you have a Remote Access Trojan installed that can turn on and off the camera and microphone, monitor your GPS location, look at your unencrypted messages, e-mails, browser history and saved images. There are some that can even insert messages to make them look as though they originated from you and modify browser history.

    Droidjack is just one example, inexpensive and impossible to detect. Popular with suspicious spouses.

    RATs can be installed via many routes such as malicious hyperlinks, fake public WiFi hotspots and convenient free charging points.

    Despite popular myth iPhones are not immune. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49520355
    This!

    A few other suggestions.

    Add Web Cam covers if you can. I have a face for radio so it's a win win. Do what you can within reason to protect your devices, regular updates / patching. Look at passwords / pass phrases from NCSC. A paid VPN. Duck Duck Go as a browser. Don't sign up to acres of websites with your personal email address, use a burner type email address. If you're concerned about commercial sensitivities at work for example and if you can, insist on personal devices being left outside of a meeting room. May be hard to enforce. Also applies to smart watches.

    There are lots of others. But all this is a little pointless if it's not adopted more widely by family members and colleagues. Your cyber security hygiene may be very good. But pointless if someone else compromises you on FB as away for a week to Spain or employed by the FBI in Counter Terrorism etc. Always funny to see military authorised and official photo's on FB / Twitter with the subjects of the images names not mentioned being tagged in by others for dodgy dress / facial hair etc.

    I think Be Alert not Alarmed is a good way of thinking. Like most things.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Well done on winning the tasteless post of the week award. Your trophy is in the post.
    Agreed, it's not fine to have one, or be proud of it.

    A religion I mean, not a penis.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    I’m off to heaven on basis of what Christ did for me, my current and future standing with God is, thankfully, not changed for better or worse by anything I do or don’t do. He’s paid for my ticket. Yours too if you want it.
    The most positive thing I could say about this is: at least you won't be disappointed.

  45. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by rodia77 View Post
    Please take this silliness to BP so people can respond adequately.
    I was responding to a question.

    I was civil and then promptly got back on track.

    But thanks for quoting what I wrote, it bears repeating.

  46. #96
    Great post, Lazydonkey!

    My wife had something weird happen recently, similar to the type of thing that started this thread (can't remember the details, but it was something she discussed but did not remember searching for being pushed in adverts). I suggested an experiment - mentioning something we would *never* search for, and see if it came up in any ads. So for a couple of days I repeatedly asked her about venison saugages in front of Alexa (and of course our Android phones). Did any targeted adverts come up on that topic? Not a sausage. Literally, in this case.

    Another vote for confirmation bias here.

  47. #97
    Craftsman Lazydonkey's Avatar
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    Clumsily deleted this earlier....Massive thanks to rodia77 for saving me having to type this out again!

    =======

    I run a data science team for a FTSE100 company. I used to look after (amongst other things) the system that transcribed every call that came into another FTSE100 company. I've been working in data for 25 ish years.


    I do this sort of stuff for a living and i'm 99.9% confident no-one is listening and then putting ads up due to your conversation, i feel it's much more likely that it's confirmation bias in that you suddenly notice something you were speaking about.

    Why do i say this? A number of reasons.

    First of all if the system i have is transcribing a high quality call between an agent and a customer then i know the accuracy is off the chart good. Throw in a handsfree kit, some background noise, some mumbling and the accuracy plummets. Try calling your bank and doing the "my voice is my password" over a car handsfree and see how it struggles. Could a system pick out a conversation between two pals on the other side of the room? unlikely. How would it associate that chat with a user? Who's browser / instagram / facebook feed does the advert appear on. So many questions.

    Secondly say i wanted to listen to every conversation you had and then sell you something off the back of it. I'd have to to send every single conversation back to a server somewhere, transcribe it and then run a model over it essentially saying "is this somethign we could use to sell stuff?" That is a metric shit tonne of data and computing power for a fairly low gain. You can check yourself if your phone / tablet / smart device is sending data back to base by checking how much bandwidth each device consumes and at what time....all easy enough to do on the modern routers. There are reputable studies out there refuting the fact your phone is routinely doing this. I can dig them out if necessary.

    Thirdly, every aspect of this stuff costs hard cash. Commercially you'd maybe, just maybe consider doing this if the margins were incredible but some of the examples given above are pennies worth of margin so it's simply not worth it. It's much much much easier to go and buy a dataset that says "man in his 40s who lives with 2 kids in suburbia" and just guess there's a good chance you have a dog. Even your postcode gives away a scary amount of information about you and your probable likes and dislikes. In super low margin industries it's much more likely you're doing that. I used to send holiday brochures to people based on their postcode 15 years ago and the targeting was scary good back then.

    Finally think of this - if you go and research something shit like a spade on the interweb and then buy one from an online retailer you are still followed about by ducking spade ads for ages. eBay recommendations are awful. Amazon "people who bought this" recommendations are awful. If they can't get thatr stuff right when you are on their site thinking "what will i buy?" how likely is it that they will get the proactive stuff right.

    They simply aren't clever enough and the margins aren't big enough to make it worth their while. Especially when the minute you set foot on facebook you give away far more valuable data for free.

    My advice would be to be far far far more careful about what you do online and worry less about what you say in front of an echo dot.
    Last edited by Lazydonkey; 6th August 2021 at 21:21.

  48. #98
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    Well, when you put it like that Lazydonkey... makes a lot of sense

  49. #99

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