The Euros 2020

[ryanb741]

I hope you realise that England football fans don’t all wee in the streets and abuse upset German girls?

And not all England football fans voted for Brexit. By ca. 50%.

Calling white English people Gammons is racist.

“Stop Racism” indeed.

I'm a white English person btw. I really think you have the wrong end of the stick here. Obviously I wasn't referring to all English people (again I am one). Some of these people let our country down with their violence and then their vile racism on social media. Of course this is a minority of people. I don't think I said anything to the contrary

If I have an apology it is that I shouldn't have put the Brexit hashtag in the G&D as no politics allowed. The rest of it I think you've put 2 and 2 together and come up with a huge number.

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[Kirk280]

I'm a white English person btw. I really think you have the wrong end of the stick here. Obviously I wasn't referring to all English people (again I am one). Some of these people let our country down with their violence and then their vile racism on social media. Of course this is a minority of people. I don't think I said anything to the contrary

If I have an apology it is that I shouldn't have put the Brexit hashtag in the G&D as no politics allowed. The rest of it I think you've put 2 and 2 together and come up with a huge number.

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No, you tarred all English fans with the same brush.

[Saint-Just]

No, you tarred all English fans with the same brush.

Unfortunately this is what happens. Just like people criticise Muslims for not cleaning their house from extremists, football fans are blamed for the actions of a few.
A few that is a large enough number to make all the wrong headlines the morning after a game.
The strange thing is that in other sports it is a much, much more marginal affair.

[Andyg]

The strange thing is that in other sports it is a much, much more marginal affair.

Not that strange is it. Look at its origins, who played it, who follow it and some of the politics/religious overtones that surround it. For some it’s not just a game it’s something that defines who they are and what they believe.

If you were generous you might claim it as “passion”, if you were less generous you might define it as tribal or worse.

The upsides is nothing that occurred last week is unique to English Football and it seems to be getting better compared to the 1960’s, 1970’s, etc, but to suggest that the toxic relationship between clubs like Everton/Liverpool, Man City/Utd, Chelsea/Palace, Celtic/Rangers, Madrid/Barca, the Milan’s/Juve, etc, etc will ever be resolved is just nuts. To much history and to much bigotry..

[Danstone]

In a slight defence of Ryan I think that the idea that it is only a small minority of society, and particularly football fans, that is racist is quite wide of the mark. It might be a minority but it’s a minority of millions. Even the media seems to be quoting a figure of 1,900 odd racist social media posts after the final directed at the players but, as I think I said before, I was watching them pile up with my daughter after the game and Saka had at least 30k in the first half an hour alone, maybe the people counting were only looking for certain words and not emojis.
The whole booing of the taking the knee seemed to start at Millwall and the justification given was that it was a protest by politically aware fans against the political aims of the BLM movement. A few years ago, less than five, I was “entertained” at the Den, the opposition had a couple of black players that were subjected to monkey noises and other racist abuse by a clear majority of fans in the stadium. Afterwards I asked the person who took me what he thought of it and how he thought his own teams black players would feel and his response was “they’re ok, they’re still f***ing monkeys but they’re our f***ing monkeys.” The idea that the fans of that particular club are political intellectuals is a joke, they are racist thugs pure and simple.
I think that the actual number of people in society that are openly racist may be a significant minority, but when you add in those that go along with it, laugh about it, share the racist memes or don’t see it as a problem and act on it you probably then reach a majority.

[learningtofly]

In a slight defence of Ryan I think that the idea that it is only a small minority of society, and particularly football fans, that is racist is quite wide of the mark. It might be a minority but it’s a minority of millions. Even the media seems to be quoting a figure of 1,900 odd racist social media posts after the final directed at the players but, as I think I said before, I was watching them pile up with my daughter after the game and Saka had at least 30k in the first half an hour alone, maybe the people counting were only looking for certain words and not emojis.
The whole booing of the taking the knee seemed to start at Millwall and the justification given was that it was a protest by politically aware fans against the political aims of the BLM movement. A few years ago, less than five, I was “entertained” at the Den, the opposition had a couple of black players that were subjected to monkey noises and other racist abuse by a clear majority of fans in the stadium. Afterwards I asked the person who took me what he thought of it and how he thought his own teams black players would feel and his response was “they’re ok, they’re still f***ing monkeys but they’re our f***ing monkeys.” The idea that the fans of that particular club are political intellectuals is a joke, they are racist thugs pure and simple.
I think that the actual number of people in society that are openly racist may be a significant minority, but when you add in those that go along with it, laugh about it, share the racist memes or don’t see it as a problem and act on it you probably then reach a majority.

Very much agreed. The notion that the booing directed at taking the knee is politically motivated is frankly errant nonsense of the highest order. No doubt many participants will try to claim the moral high ground on that basis, though.

[wileeeeeey]

The whole booing of the taking the knee seemed to start at Millwall and the justification given was that it was a protest by politically aware fans against the political aims of the BLM movement. A few years ago, less than five, I was “entertained” at the Den, the opposition had a couple of black players that were subjected to monkey noises and other racist abuse by a clear majority of fans in the stadium. Afterwards I asked the person who took me what he thought of it and how he thought his own teams black players would feel and his response was “they’re ok, they’re still f***ing monkeys but they’re our f***ing monkeys.” The idea that the fans of that particular club are political intellectuals is a joke, they are racist thugs pure and simple.

I laughed when I read "started at Millwall" and then told myself to keep and open mind. Then I read the monkey comments. Sumbags.

The whole tying booing the knee to BLM and politics sounds incredibly similar to the people who are openly racist against brown people and then brag that "Islam isn't a race". They love a technicality but we all know what they really mean. Bit like Ally using the term Londonistan.

I had neighbours once who were very proud to tell us the first time they met me and my wife that they weren't racist (think they were playing it safe as we both have weird names) and then spent the next 3 years at Christmas constantly asking if we were having a tree or not. They also spent years inviting us over for meat based dinners or just some alcohol, never a cup or tea or a biscuit. Curious. They could have just come out and asked what we were but spent their time hiding behind nonsense and playing games, just like these football fans.

I'll let you guess what their views were on Meghan Markle, Brexit, and Jewish conspiracies.

[Captain Morgan]

In a slight defence of Ryan I think that the idea that it is only a small minority of society, and particularly football fans, that is racist is quite wide of the mark. It might be a minority but it’s a minority of millions. Even the media seems to be quoting a figure of 1,900 odd racist social media posts after the final directed at the players but, as I think I said before, I was watching them pile up with my daughter after the game and Saka had at least 30k in the first half an hour alone, maybe the people counting were only looking for certain words and not emojis.
The whole booing of the taking the knee seemed to start at Millwall and the justification given was that it was a protest by politically aware fans against the political aims of the BLM movement. A few years ago, less than five, I was “entertained” at the Den, the opposition had a couple of black players that were subjected to monkey noises and other racist abuse by a clear majority of fans in the stadium. Afterwards I asked the person who took me what he thought of it and how he thought his own teams black players would feel and his response was “they’re ok, they’re still f***ing monkeys but they’re our f***ing monkeys.” The idea that the fans of that particular club are political intellectuals is a joke, they are racist thugs pure and simple.
I think that the actual number of people in society that are openly racist may be a significant minority, but when you add in those that go along with it, laugh about it, share the racist memes or don’t see it as a problem and act on it you probably then reach a majority.

I had a season ticket at the den for ten years in the 00’s, and found racist abuse to be infrequent and often challenged when used. That said I was at the half way line not in the coldblow lane end.

[Dave+63]

I had a season ticket at the den for ten years in the 00’s, and found racist abuse to be infrequent and often challenged when used. That said I was at the half way line not in the coldblow lane end.

They weren’t racist at Milwall, they hated everyone equally!

[robert75]

In a slight defence of Ryan I think that the idea that it is only a small minority of society, and particularly football fans, that is racist is quite wide of the mark. It might be a minority but it’s a minority of millions. Even the media seems to be quoting a figure of 1,900 odd racist social media posts after the final directed at the players but, as I think I said before, I was watching them pile up with my daughter after the game and Saka had at least 30k in the first half an hour alone, maybe the people counting were only looking for certain words and not emojis.
The whole booing of the taking the knee seemed to start at Millwall and the justification given was that it was a protest by politically aware fans against the political aims of the BLM movement. A few years ago, less than five, I was “entertained” at the Den, the opposition had a couple of black players that were subjected to monkey noises and other racist abuse by a clear majority of fans in the stadium. Afterwards I asked the person who took me what he thought of it and how he thought his own teams black players would feel and his response was “they’re ok, they’re still f***ing monkeys but they’re our f***ing monkeys.” The idea that the fans of that particular club are political intellectuals is a joke, they are racist thugs pure and simple.
I think that the actual number of people in society that are openly racist may be a significant minority, but when you add in those that go along with it, laugh about it, share the racist memes or don’t see it as a problem and act on it you probably then reach a majority.

There was a documentary in the 90s about racism in football it focused on Crystal Palace. One of the people there made a comment that it was a minority in the crowd and the suggestion being it was only a small percentage. A mate of mine pointed out at the time that 5 or 10% could basically mean several hundred people. To put this into perspective try to imagine sitting or standing in a crowd of thousands with several hundred of them chanting how they would like to see you and your entire family dead. Still feeling comfortable?

I am not sure why people constantly make the comparison with rugby and why there is no trouble there. In big games and derbies there is trouble outside just nothing like on the scale that is seen at major football events and the simple reason is rugby just doesnt have the following that football does. Even teams like Saints or Wigan are not packing in premier league crowds and they are not even close to their neighbours in Liverpool or Manchester.

[Kirk280]

The most enjoyable football games I watch are those my girls play in. There isn’t much crowd trouble or racist chanting in the South Manchester Girls’ League!

[Saint-Just]

I am not sure why people constantly make the comparison with rugby and why there is no trouble there. In big games and derbies there is trouble outside just nothing like on the scale that is seen at major football events and the simple reason is rugby just doesnt have the following that football does. Even teams like Saints or Wigan are not packing in premier league crowds and they are not even close to their neighbours in Liverpool or Manchester.

Did you watch how the public reacted when the speaker announced the Tackle it campaign? Compare that with the boos in football.
Yes the crowds are different. But it’s not a numbers game, it’s a question of culture.

[Neil.C]

I am not sure why people constantly make the comparison with rugby and why there is no trouble there. In big games and derbies there is trouble outside just nothing like on the scale that is seen at major football events and the simple reason is rugby just doesnt have the following that football does. Even teams like Saints or Wigan are not packing in premier league crowds and they are not even close to their neighbours in Liverpool or Manchester.

Exactly

Rugby is very much a minority sport in comparison to football.