2021 F1 Thread.

[EBB21]

Monoco or Azerbaijan?

Sorry for MV. Happy for SV. H, kicking himself.

[Andyg]

Well, that was a bit of a roller coaster. Hamilton overtaking LeClerc (without DRS), then losing places to Max and Perez during the pit stops (a tad unlucky especially to Perez). Then laps of nothingness, but that RBR was mightily quick down the straight. Then Stroll getting a blow out, which was a shame, as I thought he was having a pretty good race.

The Max blow out was most unexpected and although I am not a fan, I did feel sorry for him. It was worse than Hamilton losing in Baku because of a loose headrest.

As for the restart. Hamilton had Perez, despite Perez trying to squeeze him. The lock up was such a shame for Hamilton, but fair play that he didn’t collect any other cars as he vanished up the safety road. Dam Magic Brake button. But fair play, no histrionics despite the disappointment. Personally, strange as it might seem, I was not to disappointed. It would have been a shame if either driver had benefited (point wise) as a result of the events yesterday. If Max or Lewis are to win the WDC I want it to happen on the track rather than a result of mechanical failures.

Driver of the day for me was Vettel. It was great to see him back on the podium again.

[Andyg]

It’s race weekend again, so no need to watch the cricket/football. That said it’s the French GP at Paul Ricard, not the best track on Calendar, and not even the best track in France. But at least it’s a race track.

It seems that once again tyres will be making all the headlines. Especially as RedBull and AM have been found guilty of “interpreting” the tyre regs (which may have caused Lance/Max’s issues in Baku). So much so that the FIA have issued new definitive regs regarding tyres, pressures, and blankets.

Plus having the race this time of year will mean that Paul Ricard will be very very hot, plus it’s a high wear track, which might explain why Pirelli decided to go C2, C3 and C4 compounds.

A massive weekend for Mercedes (especially Bottas who needs to get back on track (pun)), plus another massive weekend for RBR who will want to maintain and perhaps stretch their lead in the WCC. I fancy another good showing from Mclaren, Ferrari, AT and Aston Martin.

Should be good.

[awright101]

Thanks Andy, looking forward to this one

[tommyzzj]

so is George Russel to Mercedes happening..?

[Andyg]

so is George Russel to Mercedes happening..?

i think it will, but it’s unlikely to happen before the end of the season (unless Bottas really checks out). My guess would be Bottas back to Williams on a free transfer (with Mercedes paying his wages) and Russell to Mercedes for the new 2022 season along side Hamilton.

But I imagine only Toto, Lewis and few close to the seat of power know for certain. Ocon is no longer an option as he had resigned for Alpine.

[EBB21]

If you're at the cutting edge and thinking of the future, then Russel to Mercedes would seem the thing to do. Can't see Bottas getting better.

[v15hal]

If you're at the cutting edge and thinking of the future, then Russel to Mercedes would seem the thing to do. Can't see Bottas getting better.

Its a shame, I had high hopes for Bottas.
He is a great guy and has talent but a combination of luck, bad strategy and sloppy mistakes has been his downfall. I have to say though Russel is superb and will be a fantastic addition to the team!

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[Dave+63]

Russel tweeted about signing some paperwork a couple of weeks ago. With the latest about Toto talking to Toto, I think it’s a done deal already.

Whether Bottas lasts until the season ends is the only the only thing I believe to still be questionable.

[Andyg]

Its a shame, I had high hopes for Bottas.
He is a great guy and has talent but a combination of luck, bad strategy and sloppy mistakes has been his downfall. I have to say though Russel is superb and will be a fantastic addition to the team!

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I agree, he was great at Williams, and drove well at Mercedes, however there is a difference between a very good driver and an outstanding one. Bottas would have at least two WDC’s had it not been for Hamilton, however he would have never have been considered an “outstanding” champion. He certainly wasn’t a racer, nor technically smart.

Plus I also think he has taken his eye off the prize over the past 3 years. Firstly his marriage fell apart, then he got divorced and then almost immediately found himself a new, but rather clingy, girlfriend.

As for Russell, he certainly has pace as proven in F3, GP2 and on Saturdays, but I am not still totally convinced about his race pace yet. Still a work-in progress.

[v15hal]

I agree, he was great at Williams, and drove well at Mercedes, however there is a difference between a very good driver and an outstanding one. Bottas would have at least two WDC’s had it not been for Hamilton, however he would have never have been considered an “outstanding� champion. He certainly wasn’t a racer, nor technically smart.

Plus I also think he has taken his eye off the prize over the past 3 years. Firstly his marriage fell apart, then he got divorced and then almost immediately found himself a new, but rather clingy, girlfriend.

As for Russell, he certainly has pace as proven in F3, GP2 and on Saturdays, but I am not still totally convinced about his race pace yet. Still a work-in progress.

It's a fair point well made.
Russel is superb in the sim which should leave him in a great position in the car

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[RichS]

I know there is no place for sentiment in this business and Bottas gets paid a stack to drive car, but I do feel sorry for him. He has been a solid driver for Mercedes and has on occasion pushed Hamilton. He has undoubtedly supported the team to the WCC during his tenure. It seems that the aero reg changes and tyre updates this year have made him unable to drive the car as he needs. Hamilton and Verstappen appear to be able to adapt the car setup and tyre preparation and their driving style to negate the difficult characteristics of the car. Bottas hasn’t unlocked that this year.
The press and social media are being merciless now. I would like to see these people get within 10seconds a lap of Bottas in the same car (ex F1 drivers excluded, of course).
ETA: I think Russell would do a grand job and would like to see him given the seat at Mercedes.

[Andyg]

I know there is no place for sentiment in this business and Bottas gets paid a stack to drive car, but I do feel sorry for him. He has been a solid driver for Mercedes and has on occasion pushed Hamilton. He has undoubtedly supported the team to the WCC during his tenure. It seems that the aero reg changes and tyre updates this year have made him unable to drive the car as he needs. Hamilton and Verstappen appear to be able to adapt the car setup and tyre preparation and their driving style to negate the difficult characteristics of the car. Bottas hasn’t unlocked that this year.
The press and social media are being merciless now. I would like to see these people get within 10seconds a lap of Bottas in the same car (ex F1 drivers excluded, of course).
ETA: I think Russell would do a grand job and would like to see him given the seat at Mercedes.

I agree with you ref the media and pundits. Many of who couldn’t even start an F1 car and get it off the line, let alone get it with 10 seconds. The problem however is than Motor Sport is filled with drivers who can, some unlucky to lose their seats and many who never got the chance. Bottas is paid about $3m a year and needs to do better. End of!

For those interested. The schedule for the weekend.

2021 Formula 1 French GP session timings in the UK/Portugal

Friday 18th June 2021

• Free Practice 1: 10:30 - 11:30 BST
• Free Practice 2: 14:00 - 15:00 BST

Saturday 19th June 2021

• Free Practice 3: 11:00 - 12:00 BST
• Qualifying: 14:00 - 15:00 BST

Sunday 20th June 2021

• Race: 14:00 - 16:00 BST

[Geoff W]

Agree on the Bottas comments - he is the absolutely perfect second driver. Fast enough, team player that Merc really wanted after the rifts that had occurred and on his day a race winner. But we're comparing him to arguably the best to ever do it, anyone would look poor.

[Gareth-W]

Russel tweeted about signing some paperwork a couple of weeks ago. With the latest about Toto talking to Toto, I think it’s a done deal already.

Whether Bottas lasts until the season ends is the only the only thing I believe to still be questionable.

Russell signed a deal about 4-5 weeks ago and Bottarse (as the SKY team call him off line - when they remember to not say it on air.........) was made aware of it.......cue his usual average performances getting even worse this year.

[v15hal]

Russell signed a deal about 4-5 weeks ago and Bottarse (as the SKY team call him off line - when they remember to not say it on air.........) was made aware of it.......cue his usual average performances getting even worse this year.

It is a shame, such a good character.
He will be missed...
Any other predictions for changes next season?

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[Dave+63]

It is a shame, such a good character.
He will be missed...
Any other predictions for changes next season?

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I’m sure he’ll get a drive with another team, he’s still a very good driver.

[v15hal]

I’m sure he’ll get a drive with another team, he’s still a very good driver.

Yeah true, but it's highly unlikely likely that he'll be in a championship winning car again.
https://www.news24.com/wheels/formul...marko-20210615


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[Gareth-W]

I’m sure he’ll get a drive with another team, he’s still a very good driver.

He's going to have accept a) a lower retainer (currently $9.5-$10.5m) and b) an inferior car for 2022 - although his management team are doing their absolute best to get a '22 deal sewn up before mid July and the announcement of Russell's promotion to the AMG Petronas F1 team.

[Geoff W]

Realistically it's Williams or nothing though? RBR, Ferrari, McLaren, Alpine and AM have their drivers. AT likely wouldn't drop either of theirs, ditto Haas because they need the money and the profile. So the only other option is Kimi maybe retiring and/or Antonio getting the boot at Alfa.

[RichS]

…and Bottas fastest in FP1! I know it’s not indicative of absolute qualifying or race pace, but still :)

[Gareth-W]

…and Bottas fastest in FP1! I know it’s not indicative of absolute qualifying or race pace, but still :)

"when the flag drops, the bulls*** stops"

[tommyzzj]

getting pretty dizzy looking at those blue stripes...

[Andyg]

Very interesting practice and qualifying sessions. Clearly RBR have the edge of the softs, whereas Mercedes have the edge on the Mediums. This gives RBR a bit of the problem.

If they go one stop will the meds last, or will they have to stop again. Now they could go to hards (which might last), but its a mystery call. Another option might go for a 2 stopper, so go Meds and then strap on a set of soft for the last 10 laps. Risky especially if Mercedes are able to one stop.

Add in the potential for safety cars and it will give the strategy guys, especially at RBR, a bit of a headache.

Good show by the front 4, especially Bottas, who really needs to keep Sergio behind him in order to redeem himself (for now).

[Andyg]

Wow, another great race. Tyres strategies were the order of the day and RBR split strategy made the difference.

I think today Max really demonstrated he really has come of age. Great drive by him. Hamilton did what Hamilton does. Pretty much a flawless drive, but a race which lasted 2 laps longer than he wanted.

The real stand out for me was Norris. What a great driver he is maturing into.

[alanm_3]

Hamilton did his best with shot tyres and quite how MB lost the lead due to the undercut was either inspired or lucky on RBs part.

I can’t help but think this is the beginning of the end for Lewis and the ‘more mature drivers”, with Verstappen, Norris et al. I know it’s early in the season but the signs are that this could be Red Bulls’ year.

Could we see George Russell coming in to replace Bottas sometime soon?

[Andyg]

Hamilton did his best with shot tyres and quite how MB lost the lead due to the undercut was either inspired or lucky on RBs part.

I can’t help but think this is the beginning of the end for Lewis and the ‘more mature drivers”, with Verstappen, Norris et al. I know it’s early in the season but the signs are that this could be Red Bulls’ year.

Could we see George Russell coming in to replace Bottas sometime soon?

I think we are seeing the beginning of the end for Hamilton simply because I very much doubt he can continue for ever. However I think 2022 will provide an opportunity for a reset, much as 2017 did for him.

Personally I still think Hamilton remains in a very good place for this year. We still have 16 races still to go and he has overcome bigger leads to win, especially in 2017 and 18. Plus I think Hamilton relishes the challenge. The next 2 races are critical, if Max bags them both, then he really is favourite for the title, assuming of course he doesn’t bottle it, just as Vettel did.

As for Bottas, I think his complete lack of defence yesterday, and then his “I told you so” message means that his exit isn’t an if, it’s more of a when and whether or not it will be via the gift shop. Russell (who drove well yesterday) is a shoeing for 2022 - if not earlier.

[Boss13]

Hamilton cannot be written off of course but watching the last couple of races something does seem to be missing in terms of the desire. Normally we would have seen him angry on radio and after race. Perhaps he is giving off the persona off someone who is becoming wiser or humble and measured. I did not see that passion and desire / anger recently like in the battles with Vettel when he would pull out a line about trick car etc.

I am not saying the desire is not there. But something has changed.

[reggie747]

when he would pull out a line about trick car etc.

He's already pulled out that line with his "RBR's flexi-rear wings are worth six tenths" shout a couple of races ago IIRC ??

[Macca]

He's already pulled out that line with his "RBR's flexi-rear wings are worth six tenths" shout a couple of races ago IIRC ??

Probably some truth in that but not 6 tenths .. I think it’s a couple at best


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[Andyg]

And on to Austria and part 2 of the triple header.

This one, will be the Styria GP, which for some reason is RedBull Home GP despite the team being based in the UK, the drivers being Dutch/Belgian/Mexican and RedBull actually being majority owned by Thai’s, but if they say so, so be it.

Tyres will be C2-C3 and C4 so the same as France, however looking at the weather forecast wets might be the order of the day. I hope it will be wet simply because I want to see how the new improved Max handles the wet, especially after his troubles in Turkey last year. Plus every season needs a couple of wet races to spice things up.

I am very much looking forward although it’s another boring track.

In other news, it’s reported that Hamilton/Wolff have started to negotiate his new contract for next year and beyond, so all those who thought/hoped he would leave at the end 2021 were once again wrong. However it seems that Hamilton is keen to take a salary cut, preferring to get paid on performance/points instead. Risky given he has no idea what the 2022 car is going to be like.

[Andyg]

A rather processional affair today. Very mature and driving from the top 5, which meant that most of the excitement was happening in the midfield.

The highlights for me, was LeClerc charge through the field having taking Gasly out, Bottas who actually earnt his wages this week and Russell who I thought drove very well until reliability did for him. A real shame, but he continues to show promise.

The real winner however it seems might be Ross Brawn, who wanted to level the playing field with the aero changes which certainly seem to favour the high rake cars, and RBR who are able to capitalise on it.
I imagine Mercedes and the low rake cars (like Aston Martin) cannot wait until 2022.

[g40steve]

Red Bull making Merc look ordinary recently.
The strategy team are killing it.

[Andyg]

Red Bull making Merc look ordinary recently.
The strategy team are killing it.

Not sure than being 2nd and 3rd can be defined as being killed, but the straight line speed of the RBR is impressive. It reminds me of Ferrari early performance in 2017 and 2018, but we all know how that ended.

One thing for certain is that Mercedes have a fight on their hand for the first time in 2 years.

[v15hal]

Not sure than being 2nd and 3rd can be defined as being killed, but the straight line speed of the RBR is impressive. It reminds me of Ferrari early performance in 2017 and 2018, but we all know how that ended.

One thing for certain is that Mercedes have a fight on their hand for the first time in 2 years.

Its a shame next year is a reset. This is the best racing we've had in recent years...

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[Andyg]

Its a shame next year is a reset. This is the best racing we've had in recent years...

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Hmmm not sure about the last GP, a processional bore fest, but hopefully we will see some more closer racing next weekend.

[reggie747]

Hmmm not sure about the last GP, a processional bore fest, but hopefully we will see some more closer racing next weekend.

Bit like the last say....6 or 7 seasons don't you think except the guy winning was your guy ? 🙄

[Andyg]

Bit like the last say....6 or 7 seasons don't you think except the guy winning was your guy ? 

Still grinding your axe I see, but just for clarity. 5 years ago, “my guy” didn’t actually win the championship (which was as decided at the last race of the season) or that in 2017/18 Vettel was leading the championship after at the mid way point. Plus it also seem you are confusing the word “season” (which is a series of races), with a race, (which is a one off event).

I was specifically talking about the last race, which was processional borefest, and saw the winner 40 seconds clear and lap everyone up to 5th. Unlike the 3 races which preceded it, that saw the lead change hands (on track), saw the lead change hands in the last few laps, the top10 drivers finish the same lap, that saw safety cars, red flags and even leaders crashing out, etc. In short full of drama and excitement (for some).

[reggie747]

Still grinding your axe I see, but just for clarity. 5 years ago, “my guy” didn’t actually win the championship (which was as decided at the last race of the season) or that in 2017/18 Vettel was leading the championship after at the mid way point. Plus it also seem you are confusing the word “season” (which is a series of races), with a race, (which is a one off event).

I was specifically talking about the last race, which was processional borefest, and saw the winner 40 seconds clear and lap everyone up to 5th. Unlike the 3 races which preceded it, that saw the lead change hands (on track), saw the lead change hands in the last few laps, the top10 drivers finish the same lap, that saw safety cars, red flags and even leaders crashing out, etc. In short full of drama and excitement (for some).

Absolutely. And the "Hamilton Era" has been a total borefest bar a mere handful of races over 6 or 7 seasons. Just like the Schumacher era that came before it

[watchcollector1]

Absolutely. And the "Hamilton Era" has been a total borefest bar a mere handful of races over 6 or 7 seasons. Just like the Schumacher era that came before it

I disagree, the period of Mercedes domiance has been nowhere near as boring as the Ferrari years of the early 2000s. The Hamilton / Rosberg rivalry was great and 2014 & 2016 will go down in history as classic seasons. The 2018/19 seasons were also good with Ferrari generally on a par with Mercedes in pace.

The early 2000s were awful, the worst period in F1 ever,. Ferrari / Schumacher killed any inter team competition and extreme team orders were applied. Ferrari also had special tyres so none of the other teams had any hope of challenging them and there was also a lack of top drivers to challenge Schumacher after Mika Hakkinen retired and before the emergence of Alonso.


I'd agree that the end of the Mercedes era of dominance is long overdue though and I want to see close racing like we've had prior to Austria this season. There will always be some boring races but I just hope that the rest of this season will continue to be a close battle for the title.

[Andyg]

Absolutely. And the "Hamilton Era" has been a total borefest bar a mere handful of races over 6 or 7 seasons. Just like the Schumacher era that came before it

Perhaps you mean the Mercedes Era or even Hybrid Era, because surely the Hamilton Era would be between 2007 to today, during which time we have had 5 different WDC winners.

But sorry if F1 doesn’t provide the level of excitement necessary to fuel that mega brain of yours. I suggest to give it a miss in future and find something else that does.

[reggie747]

Perhaps you mean the Mercedes Era or even Hybrid Era, because surely the Hamilton Era would be between 2007 to today, during which time we have had 5 different WDC winners.

But sorry if F1 doesn’t provide the level of excitement necessary to fuel that mega brain of yours. I suggest to give it a miss in future and find something else that does.

Yes, you're correct, I did mean the Mercedes era which has beyond all doubt been the worst boring episode in F1 for many years.

If I recall, there was another F1 thread started in a part of the forum you can't access to keep us from listening to your boring keyboard drawling $h1te. Long may it continue that way.

[Andyg]

Yes, you're correct, I did mean the Mercedes era which has beyond all doubt been the worst boring episode in F1 for many years.

If I recall, there was another F1 thread started in a part of the forum you can't access to keep us from listening to your boring keyboard drawling $h1te. Long may it continue that way.

Excellent, in which case you have another part of the forum you can access and leave this one alone. Sounds like a win win, I don’t pollute your private thread with “boring sh”te” and you don’t pollute this one with your boring totally unsubstantiated boring opinions.

I am however sure everyone was riveted to know that you think the Mercedes Era (I assume from 2012- present) is the “worst boring episode in F1 in many years”, although to be honest, I have no idea of how long that might be.

Gee, how I will we cope without you.

[Andyg]

It’s race weekend AGAIN at Spielberg. A deja vu moment, but hopefully one which is bit more exciting.

Tyres are one grade harder than last week which might lead to a closer race. I imagine it will be another one stopper (unless going for fastest lap towards the end of the race) or as a result of rain (40% chance on Sunday), which certainly will spice things up.

Not sure we can tell much from FP1/2 except Max is very much up there, with Bottas and Hamilton showing well in FP2. Personally I think weather (temp and humidity) will be a major factor given how close the Mercedes and RBR cars are in performance, although I think RBR are slight favourites given their performance last week.

Fingers crossed for Russell, who really deserves a top ten start and Williams first points since 2019!! And to Norris who admitted that the only damage he suffered yesterday after his spin was to his “talent”. He is growing into a real character.

Enjoy.

[awright101]

Although it’s the same venue as last week and possibly will end up the same result I’m still looking forward to it. Both Lewis and Max will be giving it all to win and for me that’s what makes it exciting

[tommyzzj]

that was exciting

[thieuster]

MV not happy despite his pole; quoted: "The last session was on 80%". He didn't tell why. The car, tyres or something else?

Menno

[mav112]

Think it was something to do with giving norris a tow


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[optix]

It would be great for Norris could bring back the glory days for McLaren


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[Andyg]

Well, if the track was deja vu, then so was the race.

Another processional affair. Max disappearing in to the next post code by lap 5 (after the safety car), a nice cameo between Hamilton and Norris, before the pit stops. Clearly Hamilton’s car was rather poorly hence enabling Bottas to once again earn his money and another excellent drive Norris.

Once again Russell suffered another nil point, but he drove well, as did Sainz and Danny R. Sergio was a menace to others and himself and was lucky not to get black flagged. On the topic of penalties, was I the only one who was thinking Derek Warwick was getting paid by the number of penalties he was handing out.

Thank god we are are done with the RedBull Ring and everyone can move onto Silverstone. Hopefully we might get back to some racing.