Those of us who've ridden 2-strokes for any length of time got used very fast to keeping 2 fingers on the clutch, so that comes naturally. A habit you would quickly lose if you switched to a Pan or Knuckle Head.
But 2 fingers on your front brake will not save you in an emergency stop
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Nonsense. I've always used two finger braking and never had a problem lifting the back/locking the front on any bike I've owned. If you need to use all four fingers to get the most out of your brakes then I'd suggest your brakes are in dire need of attention.Originally Posted by Saint-Just
Edit to add: the only time I've had to use four fingers was when doing my test and that was just to keep the examiner happy.
I'm not totally buying that. Nothing is guaranteed to save you in an emergency stop but 2 fingers on a brake lever saves a fraction of a second moving them from bar to lever and I can quite happily get the back wheel skipping off the floor on a bike with modern brakes using 2 fingers, and that is as fast as it is physically possible to stop a bike that's capable of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huGexZrovco
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXQiHZ1av4Q
Edit to add: I could quite happily throw my back brake away on most modern road/race bikes, almost never use it. Dirt bikes are different beasts.
Last edited by Groundrush; 24th October 2020 at 20:00.
Good for you both.
2 fingers+ shorter lever arm = less power. The time to take 2 fingers on the brake lever is probably similar whether you use 2 or 4 fingers, the longer lever arm gives you better sensibility and more power. Sensibility is not so much an issue now because of ABS.
You guys continue to do what has worked for you. Is it how you should do it? the answer is probably in Dynam0humm's edit.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I disagree... 2 fingers is easily enough to activate ABS or lock up the front if no ABS..
To me 2 finger braking is preferable, because the rest of the hand can be used to maintain grip on the bars.
To the person whom asked why I think short levers are bordering on dangerous. The reason is simple. The brake manufacturers design the master cylinder and brake system to work with a certain amount of leverage at the bars.
Reducing that leverage alters the ratio of force on the master cylinder. The rider has to exert more force on a short lever than a long lever to produce the same amount of brake force. It’s simple physics.
I've always ridden with two fingers of each hand - covering their respective lever.
It steadies the throttle, and on two of my bikes I can stand them on their noses with just two fingers. Only time that using two fingers is an issue - is if the brakes are badly adjusted and you trap the other 2 digits and have to release them to pull the lever back to the bar.
Only downside - I have is that the heated grips, don't heat those fingers.
Hmm... I'm not sure I agree. If I brake with the same two inboard fingers, it doesn't matter if there's half an inch or three inches of lever unused, does it? That said, I've never used short levers on a motorbike and it would be different if they made me change my hand position.
I’m not sure why you think they might be dangerous but I don’t see that at all, and the looks are just subjective. I had shorties on my last two bikes and found them far more comfortable than longer levers. It’s not uncommon for shorties to provide better ergonomics for two-finger operation if you don’t have large hands either, from the research I’ve done.
Fit what make you happy....that’s what it’s all about👍
This. It’s just a fad unless you’re a competition trials rider.
How many manufacturers list new road bikes with 2 finger levers ?
And why is that?
Yes I sometimes cover the levers with two fingers as a precaution. But the option is there for four.
Fuss over nothing. People have different sized hands and like different sized levers. Aside from that there are times when it’s advantageous to cover the brake and/or clutch, particularly if you ride in city traffic a lot (which I do).
Exactly the point I made. I often cover the levers and it's easy to do with full size levers. I don't see any advantage in having smaller ones although some seem to prefer them.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Agree.
But those that brake with two fingers use the index and middle finger.
Those two digits are in exactly the same position on the lever be it on a shortie, or on an OE longer lever.
Doesn't make any difference, the leverage is identical.
Admittedly, you CAN exert more force with the longer lever, but with a reasonable brake system, and in reality, you don't need to.
n.b The reason I recommended ASV earlier in the thread, is that they are virtually unbreakable.
In the event if an off and the lever getting snagged, it will fold right out on it's radius away from the bar and perch, not to be confused with a hinged lever like the Pazzo that will still snap. Also, ASV (I think) are the only manufacturer that make a specific rotator clamp, allowing the assembly to rotate on the bar axis instead of breaking.
Last edited by Tifa; 25th October 2020 at 02:26.
i have and use short levers on my bike and much prefer them - i use 1-2 finger braking most of the time (1 finger is always on the brake) - the short levers i put on have much more adjustment on them than the originals and can be adjusted to suit me better , just go with what you find more comforatble.
Can they be done to run tubeless tyres?Well, I had no idea that the mention of short levers would cause such a stir. I'll therefore move on to the next potential farkle - this is an example of what a wheel builder in Devon could do for me (including new stainless steel spokes)...
Me likey!!!
I'm getting bored of pumping up tubed tyres
Tubeless spoked wheels are a real benefit. Especially with light weight alloy rims. These are fitted to my Speedmaster..👍
[QUOTE=learningtofly;5566730]Well, I had no idea that the mention of short levers would cause such a stir. I'll therefore move on to the next potential farkle - this is an example of what a wheel builder in Devon could do for me (including new stainless steel spokes)...
Whatever you do , don’t mention short levers. I did it once and think I got away with it.
sorry what where we talking about?
I started to read it then Timefactors put up a great big advert with young ladies writhing around in minimalist underwear and I got distracted
I’m not sure where the notion of them being “2 finger levers” has come from.
I can get all 4 of my fingers on my short levers, in the exact same average distance from the pivot, as the original levers. Original levers are shaped that you cannot even reach the lever at it’s outer extremity, so I’m at a loss to understand how they provide ‘additional’ leverage.
Im in agreement here but would also include off road bikes too. On modern four stroke machinery I’ve always found the engine braking to be far better than the rear brake and it’s surprising just how hard you can use the front brake on a well set up dirt bike, even in muddy conditions.
You are Donald Trump and I claim my $5
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Do you have to subscribe for that?sorry what where we talking about?
I started to read it then Timefactors put up a great big advert with young ladies writhing around in minimalist underwear and I got distracted
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Some of the Enfield guys in India convert the tube type wheels to tubeless with a kit. Not sure how reliable it would be though.Tubeless spoked wheels are a real benefit. Especially with light weight alloy rims. These are fitted to my Speedmaster..👍
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
A big rubber band?
In my experience, aftermarket clutch levers can cause problems - they are sometimes shaped such that the span is smaller than OEM and so the lever will hit the bar or your fingers before the clutch is fully disengaged (or they result in the biting point being somewhere you aren't accustomed to).
Whatever the levers used, they have to give sufficient span to allow the hydraulic clutch mechanism to properly disengage/engage and, if they don't, it might necessitate other mods such as different slave cylinder and or clutch actuator/pushrod.
p.s. spoked wheels look great...but I hate cleaning them.
Why big?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Changing from the Triumph front tube to a replacement has made quite a difference to the air loss to be fair.
Though my tubeless tyres on the R80 have retained full pressure all year
Last edited by Gyp; 25th October 2020 at 12:15.
It was rhetorical...
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
What are you going on about?It was rhetorical...
;-)
Most of the guys in India use the Outex kits I think. Not sure how reliable it would be though.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I got it done under either warranty or goodwill - not entirely sure which. It has a different tube but which one is a mystery.
I've been monitoring the tyre pressure and the front lost pressure far faster than the rear. The graph shows how, since the change the front is now similar to the rear
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...at=interactive
Another tubeless conversion. Not sure personally about the safety aspects.
- - - Updated - - -
Another tubeless conversion. Not sure personally about the safety aspects.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
A pal of mine sealed the wheels on his BMW R9T Racer.
Did a lot of research first, and was meticulous in his preparation. He has had no leakage so far.
Well I finished my jobs early today and the forecast showers stayed away so I nipped out for an hour or so...
Last edited by MakeColdplayHistory; 25th October 2020 at 21:27.
You really haven't lived until you've experienced a rapid tyre deflation (at speed) on a bike....
AMHIK.
I am loving that, put with the gold levers, bob on. Going to look if he does fat spokes.....
Well, I had no idea that the mention of short levers would cause such a stir. I'll therefore move on to the next potential farkle - this is an example of what a wheel builder in Devon could do for me (including new stainless steel spokes)...
Me likey!!!
Was it a tube type tyre?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Pictures are not visible - to me at least.
totally un related I am in the process of buying a VFR1200f if anyone has experience with them?
Messing about with Flickr instead of Google Photos. Can you see them now?
Yes. Excellent pictures. I like those roads around Jodrell Bank.
No experience but it’s a Honda VFR, enough said!
I also recall a magazine testing it around a track and comparing it to different years super sports bikes. It was quicker than everything up to about 2005.
Yep.
Was a while ago, but it taught me a lesson.
Replace the inners regularly.
Amazing bike, superb engine, excellent build quality, generally very reliable.
Only downside, they're a wee bit heavy.
Go for it.
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