Exactly - I bought something on the impression it was a stock item.
It wasn’t so I cancelled within 30 mins and they still have my money 2 weeks later.
Avoid.
They did the same to me , I cancelled a order 2 hours after and never got a refund just loads of excuses blaming world pay , had to file a credit card claim and luckily after endless hassle got my money back,
Lot of dissatisfaction on wus https://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/pag...4715983-7.html
I will definitely not buy anything from them again and have had urges to visit them in house I hear they are at the divewatch convention in London on Saturday
As I think I said earlier in this thread, I ordered a watch listed on their website and was messed around. The email conversation went like this:
"Thank you for your order.
We're super excited to get this beauty to you.
Sadly due to the recent high demand in our Zodiac watches, especially the Grandrally range all our orders have to be made built to order.
The current lead time if 4-6 weeks, this includes the upcoming xmas holiday."
I replied:
"Please will you refund my money and let me know when the watch is in stock, I’ll order it then."
Their reply:
"I have been advised by my colleague that all our Zodiac orders, especially our Grandrally range will only be available as built to order due to the high demand we have for them we cannot keep enough watches in stock.'
By now it's two days after I ordered, I cancel and say I'm still interested when they do get some stock, and receive this:
"I have cancelled your order and sent your details over to our accounts department.
Please note it can take up to 7-10 working days to process.
Absolutely we will let you know when they come back into stock."
I can't remember exactly when I received the refund but it was about a month later. That did include Christmas, but was well over the 7-10 working days they quoted.
I too won't deal with them again, mainly for the way I felt I'd been misled but also because it felt like if they couldn't refund £375 of my money it was because they needed it for something more important than my custom.
Would I have left them with a 10% deposit had they said the watch had to be ordered in and would take X weeks to arrive? Yeah, sure. The wait for a watch is part of the fun of being a watch collector.
"A man of little significance"
It's now gone to a credit card claim - refund supposedly processed last Friday but has it balls.
If I could give any advice to anyone at all reads this then please avoid them - unless you are in the business of giving 0% loans.
I would not believe such things as this still happen in this day and age
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
I used watches.com to buy my Zodiac. There was a discount code to get 15% off as well. With all VAT paid still worked out a bit cheaper than Page and Cooper and I had it delivered from the US to my home in 4 days
I guess if you order and they have it in stock you are not going to see a problem, but if you have any issue like refund , cancelled order or problems with Watch this is when you see the true colours
They have vacancies:
https://www.pageandcooper.com/current-vacancies/
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
‘Chance to make a difference’
To their customer service standards I presume.
P&C service stinks.
I have a modern Sinn with the dry capsule & argon filled, needed a service, not warranty, a regular service, it was a while back & they were listed as Sinn retail & service (hopefully this is no longer true).
Watch was bought from Sinn Frankfurt, they refused to deal with it because they hadn't sold it., I can only guess due to the gas fill it needed to go back to Sinn & there was no margin. Couldn't be bothered to argue with such short-sighted stupidity,
dropped it off to Sinn next time in Frankfurt. P&C well done.
The Companies House information for Page & Cooper Ltd is interesting: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08052436
It seems that their accounts are currently overdue. The accounts for year ended 30/05/2018 were due by 31/05/2019 but have not yet been filed.
According to their filing history, Companies House last year (08/05/2018) began the process of compulsorily striking the company off. The reason for this isn't clear but it might have been due to late filing of documents. The compulsory strike off procedure was discontinued the next day.
The company officers information is also interesting. The company has had only two officers from its foundation in 2012: These were Jonathan David Bordell (director) and Danielle Ruth Bordell (director and company secretary). On 15/12/2016, Jonathan David Bordell resigned as director (leaving Danielle Ruth Bordell as the sole director and secretary).
According to https://m.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2850101, Jonathan David Bordell was made bankrupt on 17/08/2017 via his own petition.
The company's Confirmation Statements also make very interesting reading. The 01/05/2017 statement shows the company as having 102 shares and, as of that date, Danielle Ruth Bordell is the sole shareholder with all 102 shares (a position that is repeated in the Confirmation Statement for 01/05/2019). However, the 2017 statement also shows that 50 shares were transferred from Jonathan David Bordell on 15/12/2016, the same day as he resigned as director. (The Confirmation Statement does not show to whom he transferred ownership of the shares but it must be Danielle Ruth Bordell as there are no shares unaccounted for as of the statement date).
This leaves Danielle Ruth Bordell as sole shareholder and sole director of the company.
One cannot help but observe that it was quite handy that Jonathan David Bordell resigned as director when he did and transferred his shareholding to Danielle Ruth Bordell when he did, as his bankruptcy about 8 months later could well have impacted the company. As I understand it, had he still been a shareholder at the time of his bankruptcy, he might have been required to sell at market value his 50 shares (or 49% of the company) to help reimburse his creditors.
Last edited by markrlondon; 5th September 2019 at 12:16.
Somebody please order something from them so they have enough money to refund me.
Page & Cooper’s loss is Chronomaster’s gain.
I made the mistake of using this company before joining any watch forums,once is bad enough never again.
I bought a Laco that was in stock, the watch I received had at least 10 scratches on the case, I ordered a 42mm and received a 45mm with papers of a third model! After my complaints they told me that I should be happy to have had the 45mm model for the price of the 42mm! I emailed Laco about these clowns and never get a reply back, now both companies are on my black list!
I called and emailed them 2 weeks ago to ask for the price of a new Sinn bracelet screw for my U2 model they didn't even get back to me
Please be aware Neil at Chronomaster offers exemplary Customer Service and He prides Himself on supplying a top notch service I can personally vouch for that as having been a repeat customer.Page & Cooper really need either someone who knows what they're doing in charge or leave the business making sure they refund in full all the decent People who were made to part with their hard earned dosh on items that are not in stock.
Any retailer will have customers with both positive and negatives experiences
However in 10+ transactions with Chronomaster I have had one reason to send a watch back to Neil and the issue was solved ASAP to my satisfaction.
4 interactions with P&C, only 1 resulted in me actually getting the items I wanted (after a very long wait having been promised they were in stock)
The other three interactions were ultimately a waste of time and effort.
I would use Chronomaster again not P&C
Exactly. Unfortunately 3 out of my 4 experiences with Chronomaster have been poor. I've already documented them here: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...tion-to-detail
As you can see from the replies I had to that thread, I'm not the only one who has had a poor experience.
This isn't an argument. All I'm saying - and you seem to agree - is that no single retailer is entirely brilliant, all the time.
Sad to read of the poor experiences with P&C. For what little it's worth, I bought my Ollech & Wajs from them about a month ago and had good, prompt service & comms throughout.
Had I found this thread at the time, I would have been warier, but as it stands the watch is great, cheaper than buying direct, and a 5% first-timer discount didn't hurt either. Caveat emptor and all that!
For info, Page & Cooper have gone into voluntary liquidation yesterday.
Looks like this dodgy outfit might be bankrupt going by a post on watchuseek https://forums.watchuseek.com/f74/pa...s-5171187.html
But website still taking orders be very careful
I bought what was a NOS limited edition Squale from them. Received the watch but it was definitely not NOS. It came with a rubber strap that seemed to be unused but the leather strap was most definitely used. The warranty card was also missing as was strap changing tool. After numerous emails of which only 1 was ever answered to, I gave up chasing them. As I actually liked the watch and a leather strap can be easily replaced and I do have the original purchase invoice I decided to leave it at that.
I own a business myself and its sad to see any business go under but if in this case if its anything to do with their business practices then hey ho whatever.
The only thing I’d say is if the retailer sites are going then ultimately it’s not good for the smaller brands who don’t punch high with marketing budgets and would use platforms like Page and Coopers . Maybe some of the brands would think they caused more problems than sales but they did at least get their name out there
Update
Just read post below - agree they do sound dodgy
Last edited by Mark lowman; 26th April 2020 at 17:00.
I met Jonathan for a coffee a few years ago - we were both based in the same serviced office building, and there was a possibility that I was going to take on their website photography (it didn't come to anything in the end).
Nice bloke who seemed to have a genuine passion for what he was doing. As another poster has said, it's always a shame when small businesses go under, but - whatever the business pressures were - poor service a shedload of associated bad publicity can't have helped.
I have a friend who is a micro-brand owner who accepted, against my advice, P&C's offer to be his UK AD. He suffered from the same empty promises and out and out lies as retail customers. As an unsecured creditor he is undoubtedly not going to get paid for watches which were sold and for which P&C were paid.
I really fancied trying an Aquadive gmt, but P&C's reputation went before them.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
"You gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em".
I wanted to use this thread to post the details of my negative experience with P&C, but now that they've gone I don't think it's worth the effort. So in brief:
- they sold me a watch they didn't have in stock and only let me know about it after the purchase, which meant ~4-week wait time for the delivery
- after I returned the watch for a warranty repair, they kept it for 4 months, claimed it went back to Switzerland (which I didn't believe), and returned unfixed claiming it was performing fine
- when I requested refund after a few nudges, they ignored it and the unfixed watch was immediately sent back to me
A little more here.
Dealing with such people makes my blood boil and I wanted to sue the crap out of them, but my legal counsellor was thinking cold and adviced against it, knowing how much of a waste of time and effort it would be for just a symbolic sum of money. I ended up heeding his advice and having the watch fixed independently.
Some of you are saying it's sad to see a retailer go -- in my eyes, not keeping stock, P&C weren't even a retailer, but merely a middle man, or agent, through whose hands goods were going.
Just gotta keep our eyes open now and raise flags when the scum of a P&C owner tries to surface in watch business again.
I've reported the business on Google as closed down and uploaded the insolvency letter as proof. I also tried adding a watch to my basket which worked and the checkout process seems to work (I didn't enter a billing or shipping address) so to be taking orders in a time like this is honestly outrageous. Just take the page offline or put up a notice and turn off the checkout.
Sad to see any business go under I agree but I doubt many are shocked. They were cowboys and no amount of natural enthusiasm or passion for watches they had doesn't make them any less so.
'Bordel' in French literally means 'whorehouse' and is used colloquially to mean a situation which is 'a shambles'.
P&C sold me a defective Damasko bracelet and then wouldn't honour the warranty or help in any way, because they'd parted company with the brand. Damasko weren't much help either and kept attempting to bead blast it, though the rust remained.
I'm done with small retailers and their brands. My contract was with the retailer and court action just didn't seem worth it. Warranties and customer service really matter.
Sent from my JSN-L21 using Tapatalk
Copied this from a post on wus and also info to look out for a watch company called "THE HELICON WATCH COMPANY LTD (11698369)". This was set up by the current director of Page and Cooper last year (2019)