Reply With QuoteIt is a concern, personally I have only ever had good deals with members here. But there is a certain leap of faith.
Hi all,
I hope you’re all having a pleasant start to the new year.
I have recently reached the required posts to view sales corner and have seen a few posts that have interested me and I will in time post on there.
However, I am not quite sure how it would work with £000s changing hands. If I was posting a £5k watch I would want payment upfront and if I was buying I would want to see it first. Likewise with face to face completion, are there not concerns over fake sterling or even just carrying £000s on the hip to meet a relative stranger.
I hope I am not out of line with these questions but i feel it may be a common thought?
I am sure I will be ridiculed the appropriate amount if it is not!
Thanks
It is a concern, personally I have only ever had good deals with members here. But there is a certain leap of faith.
As with most things these days, it starts with a case of ”buy the seller” A quick look in H&V at the feedback of any potential seller will give you a good idea as to their character. I’ve brought quite a few watches from SC (albeit not up to the stated £5k, certainly between £2-3k)
This will also work for any potential face to face. I believe the whole idea of the time and posting limits to gain access to SC is so any “undesirables” can be found out. It’s not perfect, but as a whole works well.
You may be able to view SC at 50 posts but that is only the beginning.
It requires several hundred quality posts over an extended timescale to establish any forum member as someone who is trustworthy and honest enough to buy from or sell to.
It`s up to the individual to consider whether any potential partner in trade meets their own criteria - or proportion of risk to value..
Caveat emptor applies I’m afraid. Never had a problem buying or selling but care needs to be taken when large sums are involved.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Face to face is what I would do with that kind of money involved, not because of trust in buyer/seller but the postal service being used.
Also it’s much easier to transfer money through banking apps on your phone to save the hassle of cash bundles.
The golden rule is ‘buy the seller’ (and even ‘buy the buyer’). Do your due diligence (primarily through H&V. However, don’t just rely on H&V - have a look at the member’s posts throughout the forum. You’ll soon get a ‘flavour’ of the sort of person that you’re dealing with).
The standard(ish) protocol when selling a watch is to have all of the funds received before an item is sent. So, yes, as the buyer, you will need to transfer the funds before you receive the watch. Most reasonable members/sellers will give you the opportunity to return the watch for a full refund if you’re not happy with the condition. (If the watch was described accurately, return postal costs will be up to you). Once again, ask for lots of high res photos before a watch is sent (more due diligence).Originally Posted by LondonRolex19
You don’t need to take cash with you. Arrange to meet in a public place (even an AD or a bank) and any subsequent transfer can either be done via online/app banking or by a banker’s draft, drawn in your presence.
“several hundred quality posts “
Ha ha , never read anything so daft for a long time.
Face to face , cash or bank transfer only for me if I was selling anything never mind a relatively high value watch.
E_2_Right-Force Will now remove me from his list of trustworthy and honest folk he wishes to deal with no doubt.
As already has been said, check out the seller through h&v and general contribution to the forum. Either meet face to face or trust RMSD to deliver (I have sent loads and never had a problem all over the insurance limit at my risk).
I've met some great people over the years.
Always pay quickly up front if having it delivered or use banking app if doing face to face. TZ is much safer than ebay!
Dont take any notice of post counts or length of membership. They're irrelevant. F2F in a good safe place and BT by phone when you're both happy. Even cash drawn while you're there or deposited......otherwise trust no one if it concerns you.
That said, I've done all manner of cash deals in car parks and pubs. Never had a problem.
Research the seller or buyer, if it doesnt feel right dont do it.
I sold a £5k watch to a member here a couple of years ago and it was his first major purchase through the forum so understandably he was similarly a little nervous.
We met in a public place (bar) during the day. I picked a quiet corner, and I made sure he had plenty of time to look the watch over - I didn’t rush him.
As mentioned, H&V should be your first port of call.
Face to face is my only interaction, i want to see the watch so i put my self out and do the road trip, Hartlepool, Lincoln,Loughborough, the watch is on the table and i make the transfer and i leave. Its a funny one, vendor doesnt want to send watch before money recieved but is happy to hold both for a period. So my method barring a posse of heavies behind the door works for me.
This is a discussion forum which happens to have a facility for members to buy from, and sell to, each other.
Sales Corner is not the main purpose of the Forum, despite the fact that some join simply to gain access to what they see as a fee-free means to sell their tat and take advantage of the membership. It's often the first point of call for anybody needing some well-used size 7 shoes, or a well-worn XXXXXL tactical jacket.
What you need is to develop a reputation on the Forum as a trustworthy member, who is invested in the Forum, and not just here to trade, and make a quick buck. H&V is a useful guide to who is (and who isn't) worth dealing with, but it's your choice. Many, myself included, use a member's overall contribution to the Forum as a guide to their persona, and the "real" person behind the on-line front.
There are many members from whom I would buy without hesitation. Others don't inspire the same level of confidence.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
I suppose the fact that you can't just join up and use sc gives a decent level of protection. I'm not a prolific user of sales corner but have never really worried about being done over when I have used it.
I've sent watches before payment (and had them sent to me on the same basis before). It's all about looking at who is selling / buying and making a call on it.
There has to be a degree of trust from both the buyer and seller, do some homework, have a look in h&v, but with big purchases I personally would only be interested in a face to face, works both ways seller gets their money and buyer inspects purchase, no need to carry big sums of cash around, it's easy enough to arrange a bank transfer on mobile apps or even a quick call to the bank.
I find that tz and its members are quite an honest bunch, that said the forum members are pretty good at smelling a rat...
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Why is length of membership and post count not relevant? I think it's wholly relevant.
I'd hesitate to buy a £5k watch from a member whose post count was 251 and joined 6 months ago because presumably I'd be the first person to buy from him. And if his post history consisted entirely of 'Great!', 'Nice watch', 'Love one of these', then I wouldn't go near him. And as can be seen above, post content is all-important in deciding who you want to deal with.
There's a feedback sub-forum called Heroes & Villains, which gives a pretty good idea of the kind of person you might be dealing with.
Some people still get confused between TZ and eBay. TZ is a self-regulating watch community where most members look out for each other, and the feckless, fakers and untrustworthy are quickly exposed. eBay is a classifieds selling platform where you don't know anyone.
I've completed loads of high-value deals on here and never had a problem yet.
A face to face is always a good idea and as we live on a relatively small island is fairly easy to organise.
I in fact this week will be heading up north to meet up with a fellow forumer to facilitate a trade/cash deal and I have absolutely no concerns what so ever.
He is a long standing member of repute, we have had a chat on the phone so we both know where we stand and I’m sure all will be perfect.
Just do your due diligence.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
Because in reality it's not. There have been a number of long standing, high post count members who have been dishonest in deals. Pippen anyone?
Someone with 251 posts isn't necessarily a bad person because they're trying to sell a watch and some of the standard responders aren't particularly welcoming to noobs sometimes
You choose who you're happy to deal with based on your criteria but it doesn't make it right.
As said buy the seller.
The first watch I sold on here the buyer wanted me to send pictures of the watch with that days newspaper for peace of mind.
I've walked away from a sale before due to feelings picked up when talking with a seller if your not 100% happy walk away.
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Obviously, I don't have the required post count to post in Sales Corner, but I do have a reasonable amount of experience buying and selling high value items (watches and cars) on other forums and ebay. I have posted some watches, but typically these have been sub £1k and so well under the Special Delivery insurance limit. I have bought watches around the £2k mark and had them posted to me, which has always worked out fine, again these have been below the Special Delivery limit of £2500.
For anything more I've always done face to face meetings with the understanding that funds are sent by bank transfer and must clear in the recipient's account before the watch/car is released. This has been a mild issue a few times, as while I've never had issue paying anyone, on occasion someone paying me has had their transfer blocked and has had to phone their bank to have the transfer released. On one occasion, I had to trust the seller and their bank when I was told the funds would be released the following morning and the transfer could not be stopped at that stage, nor could it be pushed through there and then.
Recently, I agreed a sale for a watch on the basis we meet in London, though the buyer had previously requested I post it. In the end, our schedules didn't align and after further pressure to post it (the buyer insisted on PayPal, not a bank transfer, and it was well over the Special Delivery limit) and even hand deliver to the buyer's home, I decided it was best to call it off. It would probably all have been fine, but one has to trust one's instincts on these things and there was far too much reluctance to meet at any times other than one particular window that suited the buyer. I even offered to meet near the buyer's work, but was told as he/she (I never got a name!) would be in and out of meetings and on and off site, so it would be very difficult to determine a time.
I suppose the point I am making is that it has to feel right on both sides and if it doesn't, then just walk away. There are plenty of other buyers and sellers out there.
I don’t routinely buy and sell watches worth a few £k, vintage watches worth a few £100s is more my thing, so there’s less risk involved. When I have bought the more expensive stuff I’ve always travelled to see the watch and dealt face to face.
I thing the overwhelming majority on this forum are trustworthy, but it’s easier to trust those who have been around a few years and are regular posters. The H&V sub-forum helps too.
If it's someone on here that I don't recognise I ask for a photo of their passport and at the same time send them mine for a bit of extra piece of mind for both parties.
I sent 7.5K recently to a Swedish member I didn't recognise but his instagram,etc seemed Kosher(I realise this could all be faked) and he was a long time member so it felt right.
As others have said though there is a bit of a leap of faith.
In my view, SC works superbly. I’ve had face to face and postal deals for watches in the £000s, and it’s always been a pleasure.
I think a bit a due diligence, intuition and common sense goes a long way - but there’s no substitution for being an active member and trying to contribute positively to the forum in the round. It’s helps you understand the member you’re dealing with, and they you.
Number of posts not always relevant. A member of long standing tried to sell a watch on SC recently (an FP Journe) which turned out to be a hacker using the account. With care your transaction should go smoothly though.
As has already been said, buy the seller or the other way round.
On high value items I’ve always done these F2F in a public place that has been arranged and agreed in advance. If I’m selling I generally ask for a deposit and then complete on the day. I did exactly this when I sold my Pam425 last weekend.
Over the years I’ve been asked for photos of passports, driver licenses, something with my address on it etc. I also find that if you swop phone numbers and stay in regular contact in the run up to completing a deal it also helps.
I’ve never meet anyone off the forum that wasn’t friendly and pleasant to talk to for an hour or so. We all have a common interest at the end of the day.
One lesson I did learn a couple of years ago was to make you are both clear on how the money will be exchanged in advance. A sold a BLNR a few years ago and the other party handed me 8k in 20’s in a busy Starbucks at a service station on the M42 which needed to checking and counting. That was a long walk back to the car I can tell you.
Oh and my partner still thinks meeting a stranger to do watch sale F2F is all a bit weird.
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You can't have it both ways (if selling you receive the cash first, if buying you get to examine the watch before parting with your money) unless you always do face to face transactions. For postal transactions it is normal for the buyer to pay first then the seller sends the goods.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I’ve made my point quite clearly, post count and length of membership would not influence my decision to buy or sell , I’d only deal face to face , cash or immediate bank transfer only.
Nothing would persuade me otherwise whilst dealing with a none trading member on here.
For the record I’ve neither bought or sold anything on SC to date.
I am seriously considering leaving these isle to a warmer place - even so, it is a plane ride to Gatwick about £60 round trip so I guess I could continue this mad hobby! Trouble is I see no local service centres - but anyway -
On topic -
if selling I ask for a small deposit by BT to check the transfer details are correct, then on f2f deal buyer pays the balance after checking the watch and papers are to satisfaction. If a remote deal the BT before shipping. I use infosure for full insurance value if above £2.5k in UK - I will use them if posting from outside UK.
for buying - happy to pay by BT before postage as long as seller insures, not by cash as nervous about carrying £Ks around and more difficult to extract from a bank these days because of anti-money laundering regulations. RMSD only covers UK postage so this could cut down on my rate of purchases (no bad thing).
Martyn
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 18th January 2020 at 18:11.
I’ve brought and sold loads on SC and have enjoyed my dealings with fellow members, in the main any large purchase or sale I have concluded face to face and enjoyed meeting fellow enthusiasts over a pint where possible but as others have said do your due Diligence and I always revert back to the old saying of if it’s too good to be true it usually is not that it has applied to any of my dealings on SC
If the buyer/seller doesn’t want to meet then why?
I’ve always offered to meet face to face at an Ad or rolex head office etc....
As others have said a small bank transfer initially Andy the remainder via face to face is easy enough to save carrying cash
h+v feedback
Social media will also help hardly anyone theese days doesn’t have a profile somewhere Ben it Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn etc......
There have been a few "long standing" forum members who have been found out to be dealers over the past few years in spite of carrying out numerous transactions. I have dealt with both people will a small post count and those with thousands of forum posts. Communication is a big thing for me and is probably the best indication.
Surely the watch was the same, no matter what status the seller/buyer had?
Watch might be the same but some here may prefer to deal with fellow enthusiasts rather than dealers.
Sales corner is invisible for me
Wys?ane z mojego BBF100-6 przy u?yciu Tapatalka
Personally I don’t care if I buy a watch from someone who has never sold a watch in their life.
Or buy from one of the part time dealers on here, who appear to have a different watch to sell each week.
The important thing is.
Is it as described?
Is it a watch I want? Or think I want?
Is it a fair price?
At the moment I don’t know what watch I really want.
So presently working my way through the Sinn catalogue.
Thanks to all for the responses, it’s really interesting reading and glad that I wasn’t seen as someone with a tinfoil hat on!
I've bought and sold many times through SC. Mostly three figure sums, sometimes four. Never had a problem and made a lot of friends. But SC is only one filter. Buy the seller and be as honest and upfront as you can. SC sure beats eBay and the retail websites.
That said, remember SC is and should be secondary to talking and listening and learning about watches and being a member of the team here. It's all about relationships; money might be involve from time to time but only after (and on the basis of) the community spirit. Dealing is an aspect but only a minor one. And I'd generally trust anyone who's been on here for, say, 5+ years and has a healthy posting history.
Just my experience and opinion.
For me it's gut feel and communication. In my case I don't have enough posts to sell so I have only bought. I have done face to face and post for various values.
I am happy to send money by bank transfer so long as it 'sits right' with me. If it is a larger amount I always do the small amount first to ensure I have the bank detai s correct.
You have to give people the benefit of the doubt.
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Yes I agree, that was pretty much the point I was making
As a vaguely related side-note those of you receiving cash sums >£15k / €10k may want to also consider this:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/money-la...e-requirements
(I am neither an accountant nor a lawyer; I am not aware of whether there is or is not any current formal KYC obligation as an individual seller, the guidance appears to me to relate to commercial sales; but I am fully aware of how dire the consequences can be of receiving funds from a sanctioned entity and would not wish this on my worst enemy - modern life can be quite stressful enough as it is, without losing access to banking facilities entirely)
Last edited by Genuine Lorex; 19th January 2020 at 07:52.
Lots of good points raised already. My addition would be that even the 'safest' looking transactions with the most trusted members still represent a slight gamble, and as with all gambling, don't bet anything you can't afford to lose.
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Meaning what? Only buy a watch on the forum you can afford to lose? Depending on what "afford" means; e.g. financially crippling or unable to afford to replace.
I meant that any transaction, sale or purchase, shouldn't leave you in a position that you deeply regretted if it went wrong. High Street, ADs, credit cards etc afford you a certain degree of rights and protection that this forum, based on trust, won't give. I'm not saying you should be prepared to write off a large sum or a valuable asset if it goes wrong, but I know I have a line between what I can afford based on disposable income and what's going to lead to an uncomfortable argument with the wife!
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The same concerns arise when selling half decent cars on other forums. At least with this forum you have a very high minimum post limit.
Nobody likes the idea of a thief viewing your car/watch or whatever and property security only to make their next visit in the middle of the night.
It does make ‘Watchfinder’ etc look a half decent safe bet, similar to WBAC, keeping the risk at a distance obviously balanced against the lowball offer they will make of course.
I haven’t had any experience with sales corner but on this forum at least the members seem trustworthy and looking after each other (you’ll easily recognise those).
I do however also worry about fakes, granted the chance of that here are quite low but nevertheless it could happen, especially as I’m not any good at spotting the good replicas
Like with anything a lot of due diligence should be done, and if you’re not comfortable then stick to grey dealers / AD I suppose?
P.s. I’ve been burned quite badly going through a car enthusiast forum when selling my car so I’m naturally more averse now
. . . I think I cross that line every time I buy a watch regardless of how much it costs. But that is a separate matter!!
Martyn.
I would no problem, if very expensive watch I would meet at local AD to verify watch then into bank to do a transfer
Job done.
Good luck with that, most AD staff are just retail staff, they pop the box in the bag and charge you the amount on the tag. If you walked in with a watch they probably wouldn't know the front from the back.
Why would an AD take time out to verify a watch and put their reputatation on the line, for what, possibly a few quid? Do you have any experience of this personally or know for a fact of it happening elsewhere. Just don't see why an AD would do this.
Would you also bring a McDonald's Big Mac Meal and eat it in Nandos? Why would the AD verify a transaction that they aren't themselves benefitting from? Easiest way to guarantee authenticity is buy from an AD. Anything else is based on trust
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