You bet I'm taking a one-sided view.
I have no horse in this race, but this thread's title alone is making me cringe. (I assume that's what someone else meant when he said he was 'unaffected but annoyed').
I find it sad that fellow forum members, who probably are likeable chaps otherwise, turn into rather irrational, obnoxious and aggressive individuals when the practices of Rolex and their ADs are criticised. I don't care in the slightest what Rolex 'need to do' but I do see customers humiliated to an unthinkable degree -- and proud of it.
Ive had someone refuse an unworn sports Rolex that was an absolute headache to get hold of because the white outer sleeve wasn't present.
It had to be ordered in from the other side of the bloody world and he rejected it in store because it wasn't complete.
Sold it a couple of days later and never did tell the guy that there were more white outer sleeves out the back than I can shake a stick at.
I understand how boring this is, I’d argue it’s slowly rotting parts of the forum.
However I’d argue it’s neither ADs or Rolex’s fault. They’re both ultimately trying to get watches too the right people. Although it’s clearly not working.
The biggest problem is speculators, non watch enthusiasts desperate t lo bag a sports Rolex for an immediate profit. That’s why the countless, how do I get on a list, how do lists work, how to I build a relationship are so tedious and transparent. There may as well be a sticky ‘ how to a make an immediate 5k by buying a watch? Fine, do it but be honest and keep it away from people who enjoy watches in general.
I guess that it wasn't offered.
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So to rationalise and be the devil’s advocate for a moment, why then when I buy a thirty year old Rolex, do I want the same tags and original punched papers? Oh, and inner/outer box plus other peripherals. For me, because it is part of that overall experience of vintage. So, why not the same for new pieces?
Blimey! Crazy irrationality there. I've had a couple of people on SC threads lose interest in SS Rolex Sports I've listed when they find out the original AD isn't a UK one. Once on an unworn Sub ND that was 10% below UK list! Like what the heck difference does the AD's location make with a worldwide warranty?!!? In this case it was Gassan in Schiphol Airport - hardly an unknown entity. I'll bet nobody cares now - this was a couple of years or so ago.
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Sadly these days, the word Rolex brings out the worst in people.
Idiots defending the policies (various depending on the dealers).
Idiots claiming that the retention of various bits that the buyer is entitled to somehow strengthens the market/brand.
Idiots claiming various nonsense about waiting times, purchase history and some bizarre prevention strategy for people asking for a deal on a multi-thousand pound watch.
The situation has become ridiculous to the point that it is like a disease - it's a watch, there are other watches available. If you view it as the pinnacle of watches then you are way off the mark, seriously. Rolex are grooming a certain market - do not become it's next convert.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
All may well be true but one fact remains, Rolex are one of the few brands out there that have always managed to maintain to a large extent their value. Something even the average non watch enthusiast has recognised which is why they always seem to be the go to watch for people retiring, promotion etc something to hold onto. A fact Rolex are only too aware of.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Hi
Just read through the responses and found the phrase 'full-set' interesting.........
Is there a 'full-set+' - just curious if a (service) warranty card from Rolex in Switzerland adds tad more to whatever?
L-K
I don't think that's in any way imagined. This stuff happens.
Obviously for a reason... but it's all getting daft now.
I understand why all these things happen. What they attempt to achieve and what they attempt to halt, but if the true enthusiasts are honest, it's spoiling the hobby.
I've phoned rolex twice and both times they expressed astonishment at the idea that anything would be denied a customer... yet the AD was quaking in fear...
...we are all grownups... we know the deal.
I'm off to put my SD back in its coffin...
I wear a current model Rolex. I didn't jump through hoops, buy lots of expensive jewellery or PM watches, groom a relationship with an AD, pay over the odds on the secondary market or join a possibly non-existent waiting list. I walked into the shop, haggled a discount and walked out with the watch on my wrist, along with the warranty card and all the other bits and pieces. I was asked whether I wanted the stickers removed as a courtesy (I did) and the 'AD experience' was over in about 15 minutes once the bracelet was resized.
I've enjoyed wearing it everyday since because it's a watch design I've long admired, and I've appreciated Rolex's no-fuss after-sales service when I've needed it.
It'd be nice if critics of the company and its practices didn't tar all 'recent' Rolex owners as profit-chasing, AD-fluffing, trend slaves. Please.
To any normal person this must seem richly comic. You buy a Rolex or you don’t. You pay an excess or you don’t. Either way, Its just a mass-produced watch.
Anyone who buys, say, a ceramic Daytona, soon realises it’s nice but pretty ordinary. Same with a Patek 5711. Nothing particularly special.
None of these products lives-up to the hype. How could they?
Last edited by paskinner; 23rd August 2019 at 21:53.
I wonder (as an owner of a vintage and modern Rolex) is that more of a nostalgia than anything else? When I look at a vintage Rolex is it really so good that its over x3 the value of say an Omega of the same age? Probably not but still, I doubt any vintage Rolex owner is complaining. Did I do a "dance"? No, to be honest. I asked, I ordered, I waited, I got a call, I went in and paid my money and walked out with a watch. Pretty much like I have no doubt many other people who are happy customers.
Honestly it baffles me all this stuff over hang tags and bits of the packing if I didnt know they were worth anything I probably would have tossed them in the bin ages ago. In fact reading about stickers and bracelets.... When I went in I specifically asked him to resize the bracelet. It was my watch why on earth would I want it hanging off my wrist?
While I love Rolex and appreciate that I may have something that will hold its value I also appreciate brands for their history and contribution to this hobby such as Zenith, Glashutte etc.... I guess that would be the difference between the WIS and the casual buyer but I still understand what the hold is that Rolex have on the general customer.
I have two current models.
Neither would command a price over rrp I believe. I bought them because I like them, not to make a profit or because they were in demand. I think they are particularly well made watches.
I also have some older models, mainly because I like them too.
I don't see why people have this seemingly fashionable attitude, of turning their noses up at others who like Rolex watches as though they are in some way so gauche.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
So is this now standard practice at all Rolex ADs? Or just a Goldsmiths policy
That’s more or less my experience. I floated by an AD a few years ago, had a chat with the watches guy, tried on a few things, asked about Rolex, had a Submariner brought out for me, I tried it on and I said I liked it and I fancied one. AD simply said the one I’m holding was reserved earlier that day, but the next one to come in was mine if I wanted it.
Couple of weeks later the same guy called, they’d had a delivery and if I still wanted it, he had a Submariner for me. I asked if it could wait to the weekend, he said it could. The next Saturday the deal was done.
There was no discount on mine, instead I got a whole slew of goodies to go with it. Some hats from other brands, a Patek wallet (which I have used every day since) and a promise I’d go onto their VIP list and be invited to the odd event, which they made good on. To this day I’m invited to any events.
I still have the watch, I wear it all the time and I’m amazed at how much people pay for them now.
I find this ongoing business all rather unsavoury. The attitude of Rolex, the attitude of the dealers and the irrational attitude of buyers and enthusiasts alike on all side of the argument. I suppose it’s easy for me to say wearing my Submariner as I type this, but I don’t get it.
I think if people got this passionate, this wound up about things that mattered, we’d live in a better world.
When the Sea Dweller 116600 was still in production, I really fancied one. I still do to be honest, only the certainty of being killed by my wife if I buy one prevents my having one.
Back when they were still in production, one day I was in Leicester and in a moment of uncharacteristic optimism, I wandered into Goldsmiths and struck up a conversation with the kid on the Rolex desk. We got to talking about watches, he was wearing his father’s Explorer, I was wearing my Submariner - we talked about that for a bit. I told him I dive and that I was sure I’d be one of the few customers he had who could claim to have got a Rolex diver wet. We talked about diving and I showed him a video of a dive down to military helicopter I’d not long ago done where he could clearly see the Submariner I was wearing, on the dry suit, on the wreck. He may have been bored out of his mind but he seemed polite and interested.
Conversation turned to my visit and I said I was thinking seriously about a Sea Dweller. Almost immediately, he said he knew of one in group stock at another store and he could get it. A few days later he called me back to say he had it and I arranged to go in a few days later.
I saw the watch, tried it on and was ready to buy but to my lasting regret, my wife’s very clear direction that nobody would find my body popped into my head and I jibbed out of it. I wish I’d bought it, it is the watch that got away.
Still, back then this was a rare model apparently. Nobody had them, there were waiting lists. One conversation later, there was one in front of me, ready to buy.
I know that now isn’t then and that things have changed but I find it very hard to believe that demand for something most people don’t want and can’t afford has shot through the roof by so much in the last few years that there aren’t any anywhere. I find it easy to believe that dealers try to weed out chancers and want to sell to the right people for them and for the brand.
I’m not saying I have a magic formula, but what I would say is that if ever I want something that is meant to be in demand, I don’t go in asking for it the same way everyone else does. I’m not a big spender, I’m not a celebrity or a VIP but I think saying I want X, Y or Z inside five minutes isn’t going to get it done.
Last edited by GMC41; 25th August 2019 at 05:41.
Either “ put up or shut up”
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
I’ve had a better experience at smaller chains or independents than at larger national chains. WoS and Goldsmiths would be the biggest? I’ve not really found them to be very knowledgeable or particularly friendly, bar the odd individual here and there. I don’t doubt that turnover of staff is higher in the larger chains and so it fosters a very different culture in the staff.
It’s almost ironic that with this talk of Rolex streamlining their distribution, which it seems may or may not be true, that their customers get, certainly in my experience, better service at the smaller chains and independents.
He was exceedingly rude and a little bit on the "I've got rolex and you're a mere salesgirl so can only dream of them" side which truthfully is a rarity as most people are dead pleasant and will chat watches over a coffee/beer while they're looking.
It was a green dial Daytona right before it got hodinkeed.
Could've supplied 10+ at market rate but he had a fixed budget at 3k less so I'd spent a good week scouring and badgering suppliers to get the price down. Succeeded and had one sent over.
On arrival I had the "I told you I wanted a full set, the outer sleeve is missing, I want -1k as you've failed to supply complete goods yadda blah.
Very sorry sir, refund in full, put the watch into stock at market rate, and someone infinitely less irritating walked out the door with it complete with white sleeve a few days before the damned thing exploded into the 50k bracket.
They moved up virtually overnight so I kinda hope that he shafted himself. All it would've taken was a "I was hoping to have, have you got?" and he could've left happy.
A few people since then have wanted the sleeve but if I cant guarantee arrival with it I just say that I have plenty and will make sure the sets are as complete as possible for them. It's really not the drama that some people treat it as.
Things will continue to get desperate and clearly only resellers interested in a quick buck will be troubled. Those who are genuine collectors or enthusiasts will simply buy or leave the product.If you want it then take it if it's a hassle leave it.
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There is no clear policy, It wasn't that long ago a picked up a Deep Blue DSSD, fully stickered, bezel thingy, coffin and all paperwork. They did insist on keeping the white hang tag though. Didn't bother me, however the past few I have bought have all come in different configs.
Still its a watch at RRP, would rather that and miss out on an irrelevant bit of plastic.
Feel a bit dirty now posting on this thread, I will be chiming in a price rise thread next.