The current ST is regarded as a very good car, I drove one not long ago and was surprised how good it is. but to me the pricing is getting silly, they are second hand Focus RS money. 21-25 grand is to much.
Ok, having a mid-life crisis (or more accurately, now I’m old and live in a rural area, insurance is cheap and the roads are clear!) - currently have an XC60 and a 1 litre ecoboost Fiesta, I’m looking to swap the Fiesta for either a proper hot hatch (which is where the ST comes in, and the handling on the current Fiesta is great for a shopping car) or an open topped sports car. I’m looking at new as I like the pcp model, MX-5’s seem a nightmare secondhand with all the rust issues, and the new ST gets great reviews. Interested in peoples views - bearing in mind I’m 6’2’’ and whilst not huge I’m 17 stone so not sure the MX-5 is even an option!
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The current ST is regarded as a very good car, I drove one not long ago and was surprised how good it is. but to me the pricing is getting silly, they are second hand Focus RS money. 21-25 grand is to much.
My mother who is 74 has the new Fiesta ST2 and i have driven it a few times and it's a great car with the new interior well laid out unlike the last model.
My wife has a MK3 MX 5 and we have been looking to change this for the last year.
However the problem is the MK 4 is very cosy on the inside and although o.k. for my wife even at 6" i find it too cramped and there is not enough room for me on long journeys.
Also another of my pet hates for the new MX5 is that the folding hardtop is really only a targa i.e a large sunroof.
I think we will end up buying the last of the old shapes which suits us better.
Both great cars.
I am just over 6'1" and struggled to fit (comfortably) in my wifes Mk3.5 MX5 due to the headroom (with the roof up obviously), but there was LOADS of legroom.
I have not tried the new shape MX5, so do not know if it is any better or worse now.
Despite this, I would still have the MX5 over the ST Fiesta, as the MX5's are just such great, simple fun. Like an old MGB, but one that works properly! As a second car, you only use it in the sunshine, so driving with the roof up is not a regular requirement.
Try one and see if you fit first though!
I know I’ll have to try one of the new MX-5’s for head and legroom. I must admit I wouldn’t even consider the RF targa version - I prefer the look of the soft-top, less to go wrong, cheaper and apparently you get an extra half inch headroom compared to the RF. I’m long legged which must make a difference, I’ll just have to give it a try. Ford dealership is a 10 minute walk away, Mazda about 30 miles!
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Eldest son had an ST for 2years - I had the use of it when he was on secondment. Fun car - nippy enough and (almost) 205 GTi like handling . I found the ride very harsh though , but maybe I'm getting old.
Youngest son has an original Mx5. Slow(ish) but an absolute hoot to drive in the summer.
What about an Abarth?
With the roof up, my head used to just brush the bar of the soft-top frame, also the line of the roof around the drivers door side window partly obscured my view sideways at junctions, meaning I had to lean forwards a bit, therefore brushing my head on the frame bar again.
Ours was the 2.0 Sport version with heated seats, which were great when the weather was cold.
There was no rust on ours at all, the only problem we had was blocked roof-drain holes behind the seats, which were a bit of a fiddle to clear and rainwater water filled the 'rear' footwells when they needed attention. Keep the roof clean and don't park under trees.....
If you are having a mid-life crisis then you need a sports car not a shopping car. The best enjoyment is always to be had with RWD and lightness. The current Fiesta is 1100-1200kg, the MX-5 1050kg.
Personally I'd buy a second hand 1st or 2nd gen mx-5, get it inspected before purchase and enjoy it. If rust develops later fixing it will cost a whole heap less than the depreciation on new or you just sell it and buy another.
I know nothing about the ST but can help with the MX-5!
The Mk2 has terminal rust issues. From what I understand they had to strengthen the chassis rails for crash protection and where they enter the engine bay (maybe elsewhere too) the rails rust from the inside out. I think they're a sandwich construction and it just doesn't work. Cutting them out and replacing them with good metal is a very expensive business (something like £1.5k to £2k) and very few Mk2s are worth that. It's a shame, I had a Mk2 and it was a really nice car.
I'm almost 6'3" and have no issues with height in my Mk1. The Mk2 was slightly better and I should probably try to find some Mk2 seats to see if I sit lower. You can do a 'foamectomy' on them, where you remove a piece of foam from the seat base and seat back, giving you an extra inch or two of height and back room.
The Mk1 doesn't have rust issues beyond sills (easy repair) and wheel arches (easyish repair).
I bought my car from Jeremy67 and have fitted lighter (Racing Dynamics) wheels and some very good tyres, Meister R adjustable dampers, better brakes and a significant upgrade of an ME221 ECU. My car had 106bhp at the fly when it went on the rolling road (130bhp as standard for the 1.8 Mk1 from new) with the standard ECU and after the ME221 ECU was fitted and properly tuned by Skuzzle, the best in the business and conveniently only a couple of miles from my house, it produces 140bhp. ECU and tuning is just south of a grand but it's the cheapest way of extracting a very nice chunk of extra ooomph from your car. Torque in the mid-range really improved and makes a big difference. The other thing the ME221 does is allow you to turbocharge or supercharge your car or have individual throttle bodies fitted. I'm in the process of going down the turbo route, I just bought a Torsen LSD (imports all come with LSDs but UK Mk1s didn't) and that will be fitted along with an uprated clutch at the end of the month. When I have the turbo sorted it will produce 240bhp minimum in a car that weighs 950kg. To give a comparison, the new Alpine has a 1.8-litre, four-cylinder turbocharged engine producing 249bhp, but it weighs 1,100kg, 150kg more.
In your position it might be worth finding a really nice Mk1 (imports are amazing, I've been under one that's done 150,000km and the underside was spotless, it could have been new) and spending some money at somewhere like Skuzzle on a few key upgrades like the ones I've done to my car. The dampers (about £800) transform the ride (and you can go as soft or stiff as you like and adjust front and rear to suit the way you drive, it takes about a minute to do all four, including opening the bonnet and boot!), the brake upgrades aren't necessary for a standard car but some really good pads are £120 or so for all four corners, really good Michelins cost me about £280 (I think), wheels are £500 or so, the ECU and rolling road were about £900. My roof is knackered but I'm waiting to go to Swansea to have it replaced (mohair, heated rear glass window, £300 fitted) as part of a two- or three-day holiday driving round Wales.
You could buy a mint Mk1 for £6k (an S-Special is a good one to try) and leave it as it is or you can very easily do what I've done and find a car to uprate to your spec. Even things like halogen lights transform visibility at night and cost around £60 (the bowls are the same 7" size as Defenders use). Very much like the MGB used to be, you can leave the car as is or tinker with it to your heart's content. There are some very good forums (MX5Nutz is good and even if you ask really stupid questions people try to help rather than give you sarky replies) and the owners club is great.
Here's my car last summer one evening England were playing in the World Cup was on. Key for me is the car looks as standard as possible. The Meister Rs can be adjusted for height to suit your tastes, I think they're just right on my car, it sits nicely but doesn't ground out. Aside from a new Momo steering wheel and the Racing Dynamics wheels it looks standard.
Last edited by Foxy100; 12th February 2019 at 13:13.
"A man of little significance"
When you say "second car" do you mean a second car for you or a second car in the household? If it's the first then you need something a bit more special than a fiesta ST or an MX5.
As you say you like the PCP route I'd say also have a look at leasing. Something like this https://www.mangoletsi.com/abarth/new-car-offers/
Any PCP or lease deals on the new fiesta ST are terrible (I think everyone agrees the car is too expensive) so you will get an Abarth or an MX5 far cheaper.
At 6ft 3 and 17 stone you should fit (uncomfortably) but will probably look like donkey kong in Mario kart. I've owned several mk1 and mk2 MX5s and have driven the mk3 and 4. The one thing they all share is a seating position which is too high. Almost like you're sitting on the car rather than in it.
You have chosen two very different cars here so I think it would be better to look at what you actually expect from the driving experience, set a budget and get some suggestions.
Motorpoint have a couple of nearly new Fiat 124s with a big chunk of wonga off.
https://www.motorpoint.co.uk/used-ca...t/124%20spider
The mk3 or NC model is well known for rust now. Also well know for the engines bottom end to go due to oil starvation. They go through a lot of oil if revved high so if an owner drives it hard and doesn't check the oil between services there's a fair chance it will start to knock.
We have a Mazda MX5 2.0ltr MK3.5 PowerShift roaster coupe style (can retract the hard top in 12sec) it’s heading toward coming up to 10years old and superb car to wiz around in. Judging from the plate it’s a 2010 model - don’t have the documents to hand.
We bought it second hand 3 years old and since owning it - No issues with rust or anything, except the wife curbs the alloys way too much. She gets it serviced annually at around £200 a time. It looks best in racing red in my opinion.
So much fun to drive! This is the top of the range auto with flappy paddles - switch off the traction control and pretend to be on top gear.
Picture from last year:
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 12th February 2019 at 14:17.
I have a Mk4 MX-5 with 2.0 engine. Switched my Mercedes R129 500SL for that car - which is rather unusual :)
What can I tell - this is my daily car, the other car in family is rather big estate car. There are 2 obligatory changes - removing of sound tube and switching the exhaust (with sound tube it's really loud inside). The car isn't very big inside, but having 183 cm of height I can fell quite comfortable (even in winter outfit). The passenger have a bit less leg space - the gearbox construction taking couple of cm from passenger space - but it's not a problem. The main problem is boot - it's really tiny and the loading hole isn't very comfortable too.
The softtop is perfect - opening/closing by one hand in seconds. Whole car is simple and light (power to weight ratio is ok). I wouldn't switch for Fiesta ST :)
My wife has the same version in silver which has done about 46,000 miles and never missed a beat.I must admit to not being a fan of this sort of car but have used it by and by for trips on sunny days and find it a pleasure to drive. It is pretty, has a solid roof, decent boot space, quite durable interior and they seem to hold their value rather well.
Neither for me, get a Honda Civic sports with a turbo or v-tech.quick, great looking, supremely reliable, massive boot space for shopping .
Hot hatches are great fun, but in the end they just feel like any other modern small car (just a faster, stiffer sprung one). A proper sportscar is a completely different driving experience - just what you need for a mid-life crisis!
Drivers of MX5's wave at each other when they pass.
Drivers of ST's less so.
Not sure if that is a positive or negative, but it needed to be said....
I forgot to mention, OP, the Up GTi is getting some good reviews and I've seen a couple of car journalists buy them as personal cars (thinking about it I know quite a few car journalists who've had or still have MX-5s and not a single one with a Fiesta ST...). I had a Lupo GTi a few years ago and it was almost a really good car, just let down by its handling.
I spent some time in a JCW Mini, whiny little thing that didn't flow when it came to rapid cross-country driving.
"A man of little significance"
I only hear good things about the ST, thats were i would go
Quite a decision to make for the OP. Sports car or hot hatch. Very different propositions.
Last edited by Velorum; 12th February 2019 at 18:46.
Thanks for all the input. Tbh I’m not a car tinkerer, nor am I a total petrolhead so spending big money on a second car is a no-no, as is buying an old one and fettling it. I just want a fun second car, as opposed to a hobby as I don’t get much time as it is!
The mid-life crisis thing was very tongue in cheek, I still have kids at home but the amount of time we have 4 in the car gets rarer and rarer and that’s what the Volvo is for. I do however have a sublime 15 mile commute along idyllic country roads and just fancy making the first and last 30 minutes of each working day a bit of fun, having spent a lot of years on London’s tube network! I guess heart says convertible sports car, head says sensible hatch that goes like stink when you fancy it, I’ll take a few test drives and have a think. I must admit I have read the passenger side is smaller than the drivers side on the Mazda which might be an issue - my (small) wife is a keen driver and if I can’t sit next to her I don’t really see the point! Both my sons are tall too, hence my preference for European cars of decent size over the years. I actually thought about the Up! Gti but I understand they are almost impossible to get - and tbh after a number of golf gti’s etc over the years I find the bland dash and styling of VW a bit ‘meh’. I’ll do some homework and organise a couple of test drives. Further to one reply, I have read on various fora and reviews that the Fiat version of the MX-5 is more expensive, with a less reliable engine and (having driven a few of my wife’s fiats before we married) anrather less desirable badge. I do think they look a bit more masculine tbh, but I won’t touch an Italian or French car - I rather like a car on the road not sat in the dealer having the electrics fixed!
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Yep. Need to think it through. I’ve owned hot hatches in the past but never a convertible sports car. I think 34 inch legs might have more of a bearing on what I buy than anything. A friend had a lovely Caterham I couldn’t even get into, even if I took the steering wheel off first!
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If I can add something - in driving pleasure MX-5 mk.4 is close to old air-cooled 911. Pure car, pure fun. I had very fast cars (E39 M5 for example) and little Miata kills it in fun-factor.
What’s your budget for a second car?
This may be an unpopular viewpoint but I’m a two time MX5 owner & also a hot hatch fan. I drove the previous generation ST, it had too firm suspension, snapped into oversteer and just felt immature with a pogo-stick ride; the latest ST with Sport pack (LSD) is night and day, it is light years ahead and utterly fantastic. However, that said, I have just bought a Mazda MX5 ND (Mk4/current) 2.0 Sport Nav and it’s utterly sublime. I had a NB (Mk2.5) 1.8 VT Sport which I kept 9 years and again it was superb. My hot hatch of choice is the Mini Cooper S Works 210, current wife’s car and had one previously, which I sold to Adrian who has commented on this thread, the previous R55/56 gen Mini JCW is awesome too.
At your size I’d suggest the Mk3-3.75 would fit you best.
Another consideration is whether you like RWD or not, it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but it rewards in no way any FWD can, and I’ve had Renault Sports, Civic Type R, Four high-end Mini’s and driven countless others. I’ve been lucky enough to drive lots of other amazing cars too, Ferrari’s, Porsche’s; but in pure driving enjoyment terms MX5’s take some beating, but my all time favourite drive would still be an Elise S1.
Hope this helps.
Mine are below, love both/every MX5:
At the risk of sounding dim, what are the references to ‘ND’ and ‘NB’ in regard to MX-5’s? Interestingly Yumma, your current MX-5 is exactly the model I was thinking of, ST2 with the Quaife Diff ‘sport pack’ the other option
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No prob’s, a fair question, it’s as simple as NA = Mk1, NB = Mk2 & 2.5, NC = Mk3, 3.5 & 3.75 and ND = Mk4. And decimalised .5/.75 refers to any facelifts.
As FWD goes, the Fiesta ST with the proper mechanical limited slip diff was epically good, traction off the line out of junctions etc was borderline Witchcraft, it was superbly good.
Can't help with the fiesta but I can confirm they are quick, I've seen enough of them getting ragged as testament!!
Try some mx5s I never really got it until I drove one they are superb, I've had a fair few fast cars and to be honest you can't use the power 90% of the time...
I bought a mx5 mk1 1.6 and I absolutely love it, if it was one car forever this would probably be it!! Also you get to have lots of fun and rarely break the speed limit!! Plus they are cheap/simple to fix and don't seem to go wrong....
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I traded an ST for the Mazda RF. both great drivers cars, Mazda a little more refined but st obviously more practical
I liked both very much, but if I'm being honest once my 3 year contract is up I'm probably going back to a fiesta because it was just as much fun but with two extra seats.
If you don't want to tie up (or waste money) then get a mk1, total cost of ownership will be less than a new car and it's lighter so will be more fun to drive.
Italian cars are no longer unreliable the Frenchies have firmly stolen that crown.
MINIs are wretched things, especially the 'hot' ones, the ride is terrible, the steering is too sensitive, the cabin is like an explosion in a Fisher-Price factory and the ventilation is poor. Oh and you are paying for two rear seats that are nigh-on unusable.
Bit of a chalk and cheese proposition really.
I own a hot hatch (M140i) and Mk1 MX5.
In the winter, on a cold wet day, the M140i every time.
In the summer on a nice day there is nothing, even just pootling around, that gives you a sense of joie de vivre more than the MX5 roof off. It is also a delightful little thing to drive even if not particularly fast.
If you can live without the practicality MX5 every time for me.
I'm following this thread with interest as I was in the same position about a year ago. Ended up buying a sensible small car that I could put the bikes in. But now my mind wanders back to the MX5.
On a slightly different tack - if you want a relatively light RWD that is designed for driving in real world conditions but want some of the practicality of the hot hatch, have you considered a Toyota GT86? My wife turned down the offer of an MX5 to replace her Z4 (heavy, creaky thing!) but was happy to have a GT86. No open air driving but a lovely car to drive and look at. Plus a decent enough boot and 4 seats - though the latter are not much use for adults.
ATB
Jon
Soul = MX5, all rounder = Fiesta ST
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