What are the indicators that its fake? Presumably there should be a hologram visible where the UV light is being pointed on the warranty card.
This fake Daytona was offered to a Finnish dealer.
Be careful when buying pre-owned.
What are the indicators that its fake? Presumably there should be a hologram visible where the UV light is being pointed on the warranty card.
As someone who was trained on 4130's even the movement is a good fake. Obviously to the familiar eye the finish of the movement is poor, but the plates are the right size and shape, the mechanics are the same too. They have reverse engineered the movement, just missing out the nice details, like end shake adjustment, free sprung balance etc.
Watch itself passable at a glance but upon close inspection, fail.
I'm just working through a report on this carton of Superfake stuff :
They are pouring into the country and appearing in all quarters having fooled private buyers and many a naive trader / jeweller alike. Sixteen boxes in this photo...
Some in the trade will look and learn. Many others will bury their head in the sand.....and pay the price.
H
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 7th February 2019 at 10:59.
It feels increasingly like the only place to safely buy a used Rolex is from Haywood's shop!
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
There is, of course, a philosophical issue here; what if some fakes fool even the experts....because then we really are in trouble. It might have already happened. How would anyone know?
I’m not sure I get the joke, but I’m laughing all the same. I always enjoy threads that you participate in.
Rather scary that this Daytona is a ringer, as the accompanying paperwork materials look quality enough (for my naive eye) to be genuine. Teh preowned Rolex market seems clearly in the Mos Eisley realm of “we must be cautious.”
The used market is a absolute minefield.
Given the quality of the fakes I'd want to be 100% certain the retailer I was buying from could spot this stuff ... that means there are only a few used retailers in the UK i would trust.
I wonder how often someone takes their pride & joy to Rolex for a service only to be told the bad news ... it is fake ...
Is there a list somewhere of known fake serials? Will be helpful in at a minimum prevent a purchase.
I've spotted a fake rolex bracelet once on eBay by just googling the serial of the watch it apparently came off.
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Bloody Scary
Surely the best way would be to see if the glass has the crown etched on? Is it etched?
It's lasered.
It's been copied for some years now.
The latest ones are exceptionally good and I would expect to fool most people.
In any event, this identifies only one component. Those who imagine that verifying one part proves the whole is real may find themselves with a lot of part-fake watches.
Seriously, if he thinks that then he may like to purchase a copy of this : https://www.miltonaires.com/2018-rol...and-comparison
It's available only to members of the trade who are of demonstrable bona fides. 20% to the tz-uk fund-raiser if he does.
There's a whole section on the current warranty cards which would have helped him smell that instantly. They're going to become a more sinister problem for the unwary, as the cards are available to order for about £30 and the unscrupulous will start to put them not only with SuperFakes, but also with genuine watches that do not have their original card. This could be because they are stolen, or simply to add value where they are missing.
H
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 7th February 2019 at 11:04.
The sensible route would be, buy new from AD or only from a reputable second hand seller who can spot these things. Other than Miltons who else can spot them?
In your hypothetical scenario of perfect replicas, the problem would quickly come to light.
When a watch bearing the same case number was taken in for service not long after another had been serviced in the same country or elsewhere, questions would be raised. "We just serviced this watch in London. Why does it bear no service marks? We fitted a new rotor, but this one is clearly damaged. The client declined to replace the gouged case-back, but this one's perfect," and so on.
As it happens, I do not think the scenario likely. There are so many naive / careless individual and trade buyers in the world that the baddies need to do only 75% of the job to fool 90%+ of the total market, which would make them quite enough money.
The time and expense of doing the job perfectly, if indeed it could be done, would make it one of diminishing returns.
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 7th February 2019 at 11:17.
Fails on both counts.
The SuperFakes are being given case numbers, sometimes individually, which the crooks have ensured match correct examples of the right model and period. While those illustrated above have used the same case number (and have fake cards describing UK supply in 2015), that number was correctly applied to a 116610LN....
....but supplied in 2016, outside the UK.
A service through a Rolex service centre might be definitive ONLY for the person who has it carried out. It is not unknown for the unscrupulous to have a watch serviced, swap out parts and then offer it for sale the same day with apparently impeccable credentials. For example, if someone has a Rolex with a diamond bezel serviced and on return immediately swaps that bezel for one of the better generic ones, how many buyers would spot it? How many would be reassured by the Rolex service card, even documentation describing the diamond bezel? The rotter has obtained a £6,000 part for the price of an £800 one.
It is also clear that not all Rolex service centres have the same level of skills. Rolex UK may be excellent at identifying correct military-issue Submariners, where others elsewhere in the world may not.
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 7th February 2019 at 11:31.
Only in the last year or two I remember receiving a list of items stolen from a jeweller. Among them was a Rolex Submariner which had been on display in their window, whose case number I was able to confirm showed it to be fake.
My mixed feelings about the jeweller's on-going vulnerability were balanced by my amusement at the thought of the womble in the balaclava trying to sell it in due course.
I don't have any reason to doubt authenticity of my Rolexes bought on secondary market (none of them is a current model except a DSSD bought from a friend right after release ). But, things like these make you wonder. I would be very hesitant to buy a Rolex from a watch forum nowadays. Even if seller is not trying to deceive, he himself might be under the illusion that he is selling a genuine Rolex.
Each copy is digitally and visually unique for security, but I agree about the information thereon. However, it comes back to the diminishing returns for the fakers. If they can get past 90% of their potential market, why bother to work twenty times as hard to try to get closer to 100%?
I'm confident that many of the aspects identified are effectively impossible correctly to reproduce.
With the level of fakes I'd be very cautious with buying a used Rolex from the internet. I had my eye on an Explorer II Polar edition, this is giving me pause in buying one.
The rule is simple, trust only an AD, Rolex or an accredited Rolex agent/repairer to specify if a watch is genuine.
Every watch I have ever bought as gone straight to Rolex within 24 hours of being purchased and if you do buy private, do it in a bank where there are dozens of CCTVs and let the bank cashier do the transaction. Also get the wife to take a covert pic on her phone of the car reg or whatever whilst you are doing the deal.
If I ever did sell a Rolex, I would not expect anyone to trust me because I trust no one in return.
I bet 99% of us are incapable of being able to put their hand on their heart and declare if a watch and its documents are genuine or not. Also forget about buying the seller, he may even have been duped himself.
So you wouldn’t trust Haywood Milton?
On the face of it, that seems quite harsh - but in reality it's probably quite right. With main agents - who is certifying anything, the watchmaker or just some random shop staff.
I wouldn't trust staff in a Rolex AD to know a real watch from a fake. I have a couple of experiences where the shop staff have been very snooty, once to me and once to a friend taking in his Rolex DD for a service - on both occasions the 'assistant' used something long the lines of "well first we will have to assess whether or not its a genuine Rolex" I am damn sure she would not have been able to tell a Hong Kong Special from any genuine watch in stock. Hopefully things have improved.
Last edited by Omegamanic; 8th February 2019 at 13:53.