Advice re diy servicing

[Tiny]

I'm really fascinated by mechanical watch engineering. Obviously watch servicing and repair is a skilled profession taking many years of study and training to perfect, but none the less I am attracted to playing around with some old cheap and broken/in need of service, watches from boot sales etc. I have diss-assembled a couple of old wrecks, establishing a broken balance staff in one. This seems to be a common problem along with others running several minutes slow, in need of cleaning and oiling. It would seem with a little care and patience, it would be possible to do some very basic cleaning and lubricating of these wrecks.

Have others here had experience with tinkering around this way? Also I wonder if it would be advantageous to play around with some old clock movements first.

Another question. Is there a way of re-assembling mainsprings without a barrel winder? These seem to be expensive and specialised tools which require a specific sized winder for each barrel size.

Please excuse my ignorance in this regard. I'm just trying to see what is possible for a complete novice.

[Andy3536]

I'm really fascinated by mechanical watch engineering. Obviously watch servicing and repair is a skilled profession taking many years of study and training to perfect, but none the less I am attracted to playing around with some old cheap and broken/in need of service, watches from boot sales etc. I have diss-assembled a couple of old wrecks, establishing a broken balance staff in one. This seems to be a common problem along with others running several minutes slow, in need of cleaning and oiling. It would seem with a little care and patience, it would be possible to do some very basic cleaning and lubricating of these wrecks.

Have others here had experience with tinkering around this way? Also I wonder if it would be advantageous to play around with some old clock movements first.

Another question. Is there a way of re-assembling mainsprings without a barrel winder? These seem to be expensive and specialised tools which require a specific sized winder for each barrel size.

Please excuse my ignorance in this regard. I'm just trying to see what is possible for a complete novice.

I wouldn't have said tinkering with clocks is advantagous. I'm not sure much is trasferable.

If you don't have a mainspring winder, do not take the mainspring out if you plan to keep it. You'll find it next to impossible to get back in.
If the barrel looks in a good way, just drop some more oil in there, there will be a small gap against the barrel wall you can drop some friction greese into aswell. (e.g. mobious 8217) This isn't ideal. But it'll get the job done.

The one time i serviced a watch where the barrel was in a really bad way (preivious service had way over greased/oiled it and it was all black and gooey) I dipped the barrel and spring into bergeon one dip then layed it on tissue to suck out the crap. Did that a few times untill it was clean. Then oiled and greased as above.

I didn't like doing it, but it worked. Watch had good PR and keeps good time.
I do keep looking for 2nd hand mainspring winders but the cost is a little silly if your doing this as a hobby and only doing a few watches a year.


You can also change the spring, new springs come in a disc that you can just press down into the barrel. Then you don't have to worry about the winder and can get full access to the barrel for cleaning/lube etc.

Might help with sizing. (although, you will find many listed under a search of the caliber at places like cousinsuk, especially Swiss movements)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZfFkv0FLX4


Some watch repair lessons might be worth a go. There's a couple of online courses worth a look. The guy in the video above does some here.
https://www.watchrepairlessons.com/

There's also one based out of the US watch supplier Ofrei.com
https://www.timezonewatchschool.com/WatchSchool/

Got no experience of the first, but did the TZ watchschool.
It covers the basics. But you might want to go through it all first without doing the practical and then re-visit. As it covers disassembly first before oil-greesing points etc.
The first one looks a little more in depth using videos and is much newer.
The timezone watch school is a bit dated now using PDFs.

[rfrazier]

I agree that working on clocks is a different kettle of fish. One thing is that the tools are different. As are the forces. Getting whalloped by a watch mainspring can be a shock (or take out an eye, with very bad luck, and no safety precautions); getting it in the neck from a clock mainspring could cause you to lose your head (a bit of an exaggeration, perhaps, but not much).

A smallish, realtively modern pocket watch is different however. The forces are still larger, but it is easier to work on and the tools are roughly the same. (The first pocket watch I worked on was an old fusee. A bad idea. Although I got it going in the end.)

Best wishes,
Bob

[IAmATeaf]

I had a go and after my first, then second and third disassembly and reassembly of the same watch, each time making things worse I gave up. Decided I don’t have the required patience, do have the skills though, to continue. So the tools I purchased have since sat there with the screwdrivers coming out every now and again when doing a bracelet resize.

I took my SKX009 apart, I thin in the tinkeres section there should be thread but for me not being able to actually fix the actual problem scuppered my plans.

Having said the above I did find it all very interesting and have kept the tools in case I decide to have another go. Give it a go, see how you get on and let us know.

[Andy3536]

Another good first toe dip in would be modding.
There are vast amounts of 3 party parts available for Seiko SKX divers and Seiko 5s that you can use.

Get's you practiced at changing dials and hands over. Getting the movements out of cases. Mabee even a sapphire swap aswell. Without anything more intimidateing. Great first step. The new Seiko SNK models are reletivly cheap aswell.

Started out as a Seiko SNK809

[lew07]

My first attempts were on cheap broken quartz watches.Removing crowns ,stems and hands is all good practice as a beginner .May I suggest You do that and then tackle mechanical movements?

[IAmATeaf]

Here’s a pic, first attempt on my 7s26 in pieces to whet your appetite

[boywithabubblegun]

I started tinkering just like this a few years ago after opening a vintage Omega and being fascinated by the mechanical workings inside. I was fortunate to have a small stereo microscope that I was used to working with so being able to see everything really clearly was a big help. I homed in on one manufacturer and bought "fixer uppers" on EBay for £50 or less, in various states of disrepair. That way I wasn't too woried if I ruined any of them and I was able to use the worst ones as donor watches, as movement parts were interchangeable. I picked vintage watches that I liked the style of so have enjoyed wearing them when I've been able to get a good one working, as well as selling some of them on to fund the next purchases. This forum has a wealth of information from very knowledgeable people if you search older posts and there is also a specific "Mods and Wreckers" sub forum.

Based on my experience I'd say go for it. I've had real fun learning and have only just scratched the surface. Basic tools to get started are cheap (although often with quality to match the price) and there are thousands of cheaper old mechanical watches out there to get started on. It can be hugely frustrating and hugely rewarding but it's a fascinating subject, as you have already discovered.

[Andy3536]

Here’s a pic, first attempt on my 7s26 in pieces to whet your appetite

The shock jewels Seiko use in the movements, the ones that are about half the size of the balance jewels are a real pain in the back side.

An automatic oiler will help but they are quite expensive for what they are.

Watch from 7:45 to see how the automatic oiler works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHY_ysWq39o

[Tiny]

Thanks for all the replies. Some good tips and advice, especially the work around for cleaning and oiling a mainspring without removing it. Obviously not ideal but fine for some old boot sale buys. Also nice to know that many new mainsprings can be inserted into a barrel without using a winder.

I have a couple of old watches semi dismantled and hopefully I can find some time to go a bit further.

Tony

[IAmATeaf]

I took apart the main spring, cleaned, reoiled and then put it back together using no special device. Was a real pain and I did end up with a lot of cuts on the ends of my fingers. No doubt my main spring is lubricated with some of my blood.

[Andy3536]

I took apart the main spring, cleaned, reoiled and then put it back together using no special device. Was a real pain and I did end up with a lot of cuts on the ends of my fingers. No doubt my main spring is lubricated with some of my blood.

I did the same :-)

That's why i only take them out now if i'm replacing them. When putting them in it seemed to me at the time like i could be damaging the bridle aswell.
Might have been me just being paranoid though, as it worked fine.

[gettinon]

Chinese clone movements can be had for ridiculous prices on ebay, they are not a bad way to start, also old pocket watches can be worth a look.

[TheFixer]

Practice on a basic movement and work up, and as to mainsprings they can be wound in buy hand I have done that myself many times.

[Tiny]

Thanks to everyone for your input and advice. Looking forward to finding a few hours to explore couple of my old broken movements.

[IAmATeaf]

Just to get you in the mood have a look at my tools

[walkerwek1958]

Lighting and a bench/work area are just as important as tools. I started off working on a tray on the dining room table, with a desk lamp.

Ideally, you need a bench at around 39-40” and a height adjustable chair. The trick is to rest your forearms on the bench comfortably, that’s the only way to get your hands to work properly on watches.

Unfortunately there’s no cheap way into repairing, you need to spend a few £100s to get anywhere. Cleaning solutions are becoming expensive, setting yourself up with oils/lubricants isn’t cheap either. For cleaning I still use an ultrasonic bath and cleaning/rinse solutions in glass jars, with a heat lamp adapted as a parts drier. Having a laboratory background helped me work out a sensible cleaning/rinsing regime, I use 3 rinses and replace the fluids on a regular basis. This isn’t extravagent, I only ever discard the first rinse solution the use the second as the first, third as second, and replace the 3rd with fresh......it makes sense!

Cleaning is absolutely vital, if parts aren’t cleaned and re- lubricated correctly you’re pissing in the wind.......small cheap ultrasonic bath is your friend! On the scale I work I can’t justify paying thousands for a cleaning machine so I’ll stick with my own regime, it works OK but it’s laborious. I bought a cheap second hand machine but scrapped it, basically it wasn’t electrically safe, but the small baskets that came with it have proved v. useful.

If I was starting from scratch again, as I did in 2010, I would spend more time developing my skills with tweezers before wading into a watch movement. I would identify a few core skills and practice those first.
Learning to handle balance end jewels is one of the hardest skills, but it gets easier with practice.

As ever, I strongly recommend doing the BHI Basic Mechanical Watch course. It’s a 5 day residential course, it isn’t cheap, but it’s the best way to get started. Treat it like a holiday and be prepared to spend accordingly, that puts it into a different perspective, and I guarantee that anyone who likes watches will enjoy it.

[Tiny]

Thanks Paul. All noted.