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Thread: More bike related stuff

  1. #451
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    John is quite right about DAS - that’s the whole point of it, surely? And, of course, there’s a big difference between buying (say) an R NineT and a Fireblade having passed the test.

  2. #452
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    What’s the point of DAS in that case?

    Most of the bikes are in the 70-80BHP category. You’re learning on them don’t forget, with the most basic skill set.

    Is the progression from an ER6 or SV650 to an R9T that big?

    I think some of the old school riders on this thread have forgotten that if you’re over 25, you don’t necessarily have to climb the ladder from the 125 rung up. Whilst there may be merits it’s not the only route. I wasn’t going to take my test on an ER6 and get back on a 125 once I’d passed.
    You miss the point
    Old school here...and fully conversant with DAS. 100%.
    Personally, 50bhp is too much for a novice rider.
    Is a 0-60mph in 4 seconds or less on 8sq" of rubber ok for a beginner?

    For some though, it's the cock waving status.
    But the more power...the quicker things go wrong...as simple as.
    It's naive to think otherwise.

    Imagine your 17 year old son, has just passed his driving test.
    You going to buy him GT2 RS?

    Yeah...probably.....
    Last edited by Tifa; 12th September 2018 at 00:10.

  3. #453
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Which model is yours Ian?
    Mine is a 2007 Dyna Street Bob. Has more torque than enough when pulling away but is no speed king obviously.

    First time I took it out I thought every nut and bolt on the bike must be loose! (was used to British and Japanese bikes previously!) however after that everything felt fine.

    Ground clearance for cornering is crap but if fast cornering is an issue I guess you would buy something else!

    It's more fun than any other bike I've owned. And slower.

    Ian


  4. #454
    Master Argon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    Personally, 50bhp is too much for a novice rider......
    Safety depends on the rider. An idiot novice can get himself into plenty of trouble with 20 bhp.

  5. #455
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    Agree....almost.
    Sometimes it's just down to luck.
    Sometimes you'll get away with a mistake.
    But the odds against increase with (power) engine size.

    And isn't it fair to say that a novice can be expected to make idiot mistakes?
    Last edited by Tifa; 12th September 2018 at 01:12.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    Agree.
    Or a pushbike even....I'm obviously generalising here.
    But only an idiot would think they have the skills to manage 100hp shortly after taking their test.
    Since the 100bhp bike only develops that power at the top end of the rev-range - your average (or even novice) rider is not actually exploring that range.

    The low to mid-range acceleration is pretty similar for quite a wide range of capacities/max-powers in my experience.

  7. #457
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Mine is a 2007 Dyna Street Bob. Has more torque than enough when pulling away but is no speed king obviously.

    First time I took it out I thought every nut and bolt on the bike must be loose! (was used to British and Japanese bikes previously!) however after that everything felt fine.

    Ground clearance for cornering is crap but if fast cornering is an issue I guess you would buy something else!

    It's more fun than any other bike I've owned. And slower.

    Ian

    Cheers. I’ve ridden a few, including renting a fat boy in Vegas 15 years ago so I know a little what to expect. But I haven’t tried one with an engine post Evo. The Milwaukee gets rave reviews. At a price!

    The 2019 are out, with more 114 where 2018 had 107 so we’ll see how price is affected (say, on a Slim) in May/June. I am not holding my breath though, they keep their value well.

    So it may be an older Heritage, or I may go mad for a «*Captain America*»

    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  8. #458
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    I’m curious as to how many miles a year we all do on motorcycles. I appreciate that commuting adds it up but arguably that’s a repetitive route so doesn’t add a lot to experience.

    Without commuting at all I tend to do 8000-12000 miles a year and have racked up 4000 in the last 2-3 months. Each and every opportunity I’ll ride whereas I meet a lot of ‘experts’ who have bikes 5+ years that haven’t reached 4000 yet!


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  9. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    John is quite right about DAS - that’s the whole point of it, surely? And, of course, there’s a big difference between buying (say) an R NineT and a Fireblade having passed the test.
    Personally I think you'd be fine on an r nine t for a first bike. Fair bit of tech to keep you safe (abs and optional traction which I've gone for)

    Get it bought!

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  10. #460
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverte View Post
    Personally I think you'd be fine on an r nine t for a first bike. Fair bit of tech to keep you safe (abs and optional traction which I've gone for)

    Get it bought!

    Sent from my SM-G960F using TZ-UK mobile app
    The choice is still subject to test rides on 4 bikes at the moment (Triumph T100 and Street Scrambler, Ducati Scrambler and R9T) but all of them are deemed to be good beginner bikes. Homing in on what I want/like has been an interesting process, actually!

  11. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    The choice is still subject to test rides on 4 bikes at the moment (Triumph T100 and Street Scrambler, Ducati Scrambler and R9T) but all of them are deemed to be good beginner bikes. Homing in on what I want/like has been an interesting process, actually!
    For all of us!

    As a beginner, you may simply find the one you find best is the one with the most upright riding position.

    This isn't necessary a bad thing

  12. #462
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp View Post
    For all of us!

    As a beginner, you may simply find the one you find best is the one with the most upright riding position.

    This isn't necessary a bad thing
    That's a good point, and I'm acutely aware that the bike that will be least challenging in all respects is likely to be the Ducati. I need to find a good balance between heart and head, really.

  13. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    The 2019 are out, with more 114 where 2018 had 107 so we’ll see how price is affected (say, on a Slim) in May/June. I am not holding my breath though, they keep their value well.
    I've ridden the M8s and they are good motorbikes, not just good for a Harley. They handle reasonably well, they stop, the engines work properly without the need to fit daft exhausts.

    I can't really see the point of the 107 when the 114, so I'd expect their used value to be low/affordable, however the asking price of the TC bikes doesn't seem to have dipped at all so it may be a forlorn hope.

    I was thinking I'd try and pick up a couple of years old Slim S or Breakout but they're still silly money.

    Almost serious head on; the current 114 Fat Bob isn't a daft starter bike. Good handling and brakes, good torque from the engine, low and manageable.

    Add it to the list, Tony!
    Last edited by Gyp; 12th September 2018 at 07:35.

  14. #464
    (after all, it's only 1850cc)

  15. #465
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Wow! I wouldn't want to pick that one up if I dropped it

  16. #466
    anyone can make a mistake at any time no matter the BHP of the bike , a lifetime friend of mine died a few months ago in a crash right in front of me - he had 30 yrs riding experience on multiple bikes that were quicker than the one he was riding at the time (speed triple) - the roads are crazy these days and you need to be aware of everything around you so much more as well as add in the idiot factor.
    harleys look nice but they are more of a lifestyle bike (or a prerequsite in most 1% clubs )-they are not particulary quick and dont go round corners -unless you want to spend your life with a tube of autosol in your pocket and a roll of spanners theres much better out there imo - that said , as a second bike if i had the room i'd buy one to do up and customise /spray myself - it would be for posing on , not 'spirited' riding which is mostly what i do on my speed triple.

  17. #467
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugster View Post
    anyone can make a mistake at any time no matter the BHP of the bike , a lifetime friend of mine died a few months ago in a crash right in front of me - he had 30 yrs riding experience on multiple bikes that were quicker than the one he was riding at the time (speed triple) - the roads are crazy these days and you need to be aware of everything around you so much more as well as add in the idiot factor.
    harleys look nice but they are more of a lifestyle bike (or a prerequsite in most 1% clubs )-they are not particulary quick and dont go round corners -unless you want to spend your life with a tube of autosol in your pocket and a roll of spanners theres much better out there imo - that said , as a second bike if i had the room i'd buy one to do up and customise /spray myself - it would be for posing on , not 'spirited' riding which is mostly what i do on my speed triple.
    That's awful - so sorry to hear that.

  18. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Thewatchbloke View Post
    Wow! I wouldn't want to pick that one up if I dropped it
    I don't think angle of my photo helps as it makes it look huge.

    It's actually a similar size and probably more manageable than your R1200R.

    I found it not dissimilar

  19. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    John is quite right about DAS - that’s the whole point of it, surely?
    The whole point of the DAS was that the motorcycle industry and all the pro-bike action groups had a collective aneurysm when the government proposed a staged licence to stop newbie riders from killing themselves on fast bikes straight after passing their test. DAS was the government's compromise to placate the industry.

    As for how much bhp is too much for a novice rider, well that depends on the bike. I have a 130bhp Speed Triple that is a complete pussycat to ride, it wouldn't bother me necessarily for some new riders to jump on one of those, maybe not an ideal bike as it's still darn quick but at least I wouldn't worry about imminent death. However, I once had a YZ490 that put out a paltry 50bhp. That thing was as mean as a junk yard dog and twice as vicious. I wouldn't recommend one of those to anyone who wasn't seriously contemplating suicide.

    One thing I do think is relevant is the concept that practice makes permanent, not perfect. Riding round scared to use the capabilities of a bike that is vastly too powerful for your skill level will not make you a better rider, in fact it could well make you a timid rider. And in my experience when it comes to bike handling, overly timid can be almost as bad as overly aggressive.

  20. #470
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    More bike related stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Groundrush View Post
    The whole point of the DAS was that the motorcycle industry and all the pro-bike action groups had a collective aneurysm when the government proposed a staged licence to stop newbie riders from killing themselves on fast bikes straight after passing their test. DAS was the government's compromise to placate the industry.

    As for how much bhp is too much for a novice rider, well that depends on the bike. I have a 130bhp Speed Triple that is a complete pussycat to ride, it wouldn't bother me necessarily for some new riders to jump on one of those, maybe not an ideal bike as it's still darn quick but at least I wouldn't worry about imminent death. However, I once had a YZ490 that put out a paltry 50bhp. That thing was as mean as a junk yard dog and twice as vicious. I wouldn't recommend one of those to anyone who wasn't seriously contemplating suicide.

    One thing I do think is relevant is the concept that practice makes permanent, not perfect. Riding round scared to use the capabilities of a bike that is vastly too powerful for your skill level will not make you a better rider, in fact it could well make you a timid rider. And in my experience when it comes to bike handling, overly timid can be almost as bad as overly aggressive.
    All sensible points, and reflective of what I’ve been saying consistently throughout this thread.

    I do like the R9T a lot, but it’s the exception to the other bikes on my list. However much I like the look of it, I still feel instinctively that I may well be better off on a less powerful bike used more fully (for want of a better word).

    Anyway, I’ve spent some very enjoyable time watching Fast Eddie instructional YouTube videos, and today I’ll be in a car park practicing slow turning and having a first stab at trying emergency swerves. I’m a bit nervous about the latter, but technique will only come with practice.

  21. #471
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp View Post
    I don't think angle of my photo helps as it makes it look huge.

    It's actually a similar size and probably more manageable than your R1200R.

    I found it not dissimilar
    I've picked up my R1200R when I got my jeans caught in the footpeg when dismounting, I felt it going and couldn't stop it but I managed to sort of lay it on the floor rather than it falling. As this happened in a pedestrian precinct in the centre of Henley with coffee shop outdoor tables all around on a bright day in the middle of summer I had a huge audience!

    I was so embarrassed the adrenaline kicked in and I picked it up again in one go but boy it was heavy. I'd just fitted the head protectors the week before which saved the cam cover and luckily there wasn't a mark on the bike anywhere.

    I doubt I'd be able to get that Harley stood back up as it's another 75kg heavier than mine!

  22. #472
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewatchbloke View Post
    Wow! I wouldn't want to pick that one up if I dropped it
    There’s a simple technique, demonstrated by girls on Youtube. The key is not too rush hoping that fewer people will see you, and do it methodically
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  23. #473
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    The only bit of advice I would give to a new rider with a large(ish) capacity twin cyl bike - is that downshifting in wet conditions- needs to be smooth to prevent momentary rear lock-up. Multi’s are a lot more forgiving in that scenario.

  24. #474
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    Currently shopping for my first big bike after passing the multiple tests and car park gymkhana they have you do these days. I found the mod 1 stuff especially tedious to the point I considered chucking it. Now glad I was persuaded to keep it up.

    Before passing I had been wanting a triumph but feel I may want something a bit different now. The r9t is too expensive for me, never been a huge fan of the Ducati scrambler variants. I'm finding myself drawn to things I never imagined. At the moment I'm looking at the Yamaha xsr900 but may be better suited to a 700 given some of the reviews. Also the Kawasaki z900rs cafe (currently on decent finance offers).

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  25. #475

    More bike related stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Groundrush View Post
    The whole point of the DAS was that the motorcycle industry and all the pro-bike action groups had a collective aneurysm when the government proposed a staged licence to stop newbie riders from killing themselves on fast bikes straight after passing their test. DAS was the government's compromise to placate the industry.

    As for how much bhp is too much for a novice rider, well that depends on the bike. I have a 130bhp Speed Triple that is a complete pussycat to ride, it wouldn't bother me necessarily for some new riders to jump on one of those, maybe not an ideal bike as it's still darn quick but at least I wouldn't worry about imminent death. However, I once had a YZ490 that put out a paltry 50bhp. That thing was as mean as a junk yard dog and twice as vicious. I wouldn't recommend one of those to anyone who wasn't seriously contemplating suicide.

    One thing I do think is relevant is the concept that practice makes permanent, not perfect. Riding round scared to use the capabilities of a bike that is vastly too powerful for your skill level will not make you a better rider, in fact it could well make you a timid rider. And in my experience when it comes to bike handling, overly timid can be almost as bad as overly aggressive.
    Unless the law has changed, there’s no limit on the power of cars a new driver can use. It just doesn’t tend to be a problem because most new drivers couldn’t afford a car capable of sub-4s 0-60. Most old drivers couldn’t either.

    The “problem” with bikes is that performance is affordable. That’s one of the reasons we love them. I know a guy who recently picked up a 10-year-old ZX-6R. It has about 140bhp and can get to 60mph in 3.2 seconds. It cost him around £1500.

  26. #476
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    Just as a side note OP.

    My dad had a Triumph Bonneville street scrambler a few years ago. He's 5'11" but has a relatively short 30" inseam. He lowered the suspension as he felt it was too high but despite this he dropped it at low speed coming to a stop on a negative camber. They are quite top heavy.

  27. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by mowflow View Post
    Just as a side note OP.

    My dad had a Triumph Bonneville street scrambler a few years ago. He's 5'11" but has a relatively short 30" inseam. He lowered the suspension as he felt it was too high but despite this he dropped it at low speed coming to a stop on a negative camber. They are quite top heavy.
    That’s a good point, and it’s worth mentioning that the boxer engine BMWs like the R1200R, although quite heavy bikes themselves, carry the weight very low. They’re very stable and easy to ride at low speed.

  28. #478
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowflow View Post
    Just as a side note OP.

    My dad had a Triumph Bonneville street scrambler a few years ago. He's 5'11" but has a relatively short 30" inseam. He lowered the suspension as he felt it was too high but despite this he dropped it at low speed coming to a stop on a negative camber. They are quite top heavy.
    Noted!

  29. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    There’s a simple technique, demonstrated by girls on Youtube. The key is not too rush hoping that fewer people will see you, and do it methodically
    That'll be the back towards the bike method, all well and good when your not floundering around like a headless chicken hoping nobody noticed!

  30. #480

    More bike related stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Groundrush View Post
    I think the best bike for you is the one you feel most comfortable riding. If you can jump on it and throw it around confidently, brake without worrying and the throttle doesn't hold any nasty surprises then you'll probably be OK on it. But I think you already know that.
    Agreed. I’m very tall and this seriously limited my choice of starter bike, mostly to big v-twins. It slowed my progress because I was a bit timid for quite a while, but I got through it without incident.

    I believe that discomfort, pain or cramps are a big cause of motorcycle mishap. Those distractions can have you in a hedge as fast (or faster) than an extra few horsepower. Plus, you won’t want to ride it if it hurts.
    Last edited by The_Perfect_Sandwich; 12th September 2018 at 11:17.

  31. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Superb, not unexpectedly. I have to say that the Triumphs are lovely too. In fact, it could boil down to a choice between the R NineT and the T120 Bonneville at this rate (ironic, given that i stated categorically that I don't want a 1200).
    There’s quite a difference between the T100 and the T120 as you’ll find if you test both back-to-back, I’d say the latter is an ‘easier’ bike to ride as the extra power gives a wider window of gear to speed/conditions.

    Also much better two-up, if that’s a factor.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  32. #482
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    There’s quite a difference between the T100 and the T120 as you’ll find if you test both back-to-back, I’d say the latter is an ‘easier’ bike to ride as the extra power gives a wider window of gear to speed/conditions.

    Also much better two-up, if that’s a factor.

    R
    Not a big factor, but it could come into play occasionally as Bea has said she may be prepared to get on the back. I think it really boils down to which feels better in town/commuter situations, as I want to ensure that the bike feels under my control for filtering, stop/starting, riding slowly in traffic and parking up. I'm not so bothered about long/weekend rides, as i'm sure all would be fine riding on more open roads.

  33. #483
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    Height (of the bike or the person) may not be the key factor on dropping the bike, as anyone who’s seen 5’4” Patsy Quick doing donuts on an HP2 enduro will attest, whilst my 6’4”mate who can flat foot his GSA has toppled over a few times at low speed.

    Mrs Berin is also 5’4”, her second bike was BMW800GS which was regularly off road together with my 1200 GSA, until we came to our senses and got smaller bikes for trail riding and events. She also rides a KTM 350 EXC and a KTM 690, neither known for low seat heights.

    confidence is important, and since Mrs Berin does about 15000 miles a year she’s now very used to managing the bikes.

  34. #484
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    Mrs Berin must be very flexible to even get her leg over an EXC. You're a lucky man (fnar fnar)

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  35. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Perfect_Sandwich View Post
    That’s a good point, and it’s worth mentioning that the boxer engine BMWs like the R1200R, although quite heavy bikes themselves, carry the weight very low. They’re very stable and easy to ride at low speed.
    Further to that point with regards to the Moto Guzzi V7/9. Supposedly they haven't made as good a job of damping and balancing all those conflicting forces in the engine. It's meant to be a bit tricky to ride at slow speed in town.

  36. #486
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowflow View Post
    Further to that point with regards to the Moto Guzzi V7/9. Supposedly they haven't made as good a job of damping and balancing all those conflicting forces in the engine. It's meant to be a bit tricky to ride at slow speed in town.
    I read that too, and decided - after having a good look at one - that it's too quirky for me.

    Regarding the R9T, though, it did feel very stable and certainly seemed that the weight was carried pretty low. It's one of the reasons I've decided to test it.

  37. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    I read that too, and decided - after having a good look at one - that it's too quirky for me.

    Regarding the R9T, though, it did feel very stable and certainly seemed that the weight was carried pretty low. It's one of the reasons I've decided to test it.
    I’ve never ridden an R9T, but I have read that they tug to one side when they rev because BMW didn’t use the counter-rotation wizardry like they have on the LC version of the engine.

    Having said that, a lot of people see it as part of the character of the bike, and a desirable quirk.

    I don’t think it’s enough to upset the balance of the bike, so just know that it’s normal and don’t be surprised or bothered by it.

  38. #488
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    All this fuss about C o G and handling?
    It's childs play...just get on with it.
    Here's a pic of young Helmut, en route to Poland circa 1939.


  39. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    All this fuss about C o G and handling?
    It's childs play...just get on with it.
    Here's a pic of young Helmut, en route to Poland circa 1939.

    Well, if you want to get silly, here's what I built to transport my baby boy.

    Avoids the short leg issues.


  40. #490

    More bike related stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    I’m curious as to how many miles a year we all do on motorcycles. I appreciate that commuting adds it up but arguably that’s a repetitive route so doesn’t add a lot to experience.

    Without commuting at all I tend to do 8000-12000 miles a year and have racked up 4000 in the last 2-3 months. Each and every opportunity I’ll ride whereas I meet a lot of ‘experts’ who have bikes 5+ years that haven’t reached 4000 yet!


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    I’m not exactly sure without checking MOTs but I ride enough to need unrestricted mileage on my bike insurance - certainly more than I use the car.

    The whole debate to my mind is not about the bhp but the reactions of the bike. Yes the throttle works both ways and I believe the OP is not going to go crazy on his new bike.

    My concern is always the “forgiveness” of the bike and the rider’s confidence that quickly builds and the sudden way things can change on the road. Not just other drivers, diesel spills, cold tyres, colder weather I think all experienced riders will have had a few spills or near misses I certainly have. I remember when the Hypermotards came out people were falling off them as the front brakes (taken from a 1098s) were considered too fierce by some and brilliant by others.

    This too is what DAS can’t possibly teach in a short period of time.

    No one really cares that much what the OP chooses, but I see it as the more experienced riders trying to ensure the OP enjoys his riding for the next years rather than has one bad experience and is put off - like so many are. This includes the DAS casualty in my office who dropped a perfectly good sports bike as just didn’t realise that autumn tarmac has less grip than summer tarmac.


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    Last edited by MB2; 12th September 2018 at 19:24.

  41. #491
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    One mistake or lesson is cornering and having that confidence to push and pull to achieve the lean and get your body into the right position. If you commit to a corner you have to commit as braking will sit you up and have you eating trees before you know it.

    Like everything slow and steady wins the race.


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  42. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by 100thmonkey View Post
    If you commit to a corner you have to commit as braking will sit you up and have you eating trees before you know it.
    Well, yes and no. People do tend to straighten up when braking in a corner mostly because it's hard wired into us to do that. The natural reaction to danger is to stiffen up your shoulders which tends to stand the bike up. But there is nothing about the design of a motorcycle that makes it stand up any more under braking than it would at any other time. In fact, braking tends to squash the font end down which shortens the rake making the bike easier to turn.

    I'm actually a fan of trail braking (braking into corners) for many reasons. One, the bike turns slightly quicker. Two, committing to a corner you know is one thing but steadily rolling on the throttle (like you're told to) on a road you've never been down before and don't know how tight or long the corner is requires a level of commitment I'm not happy with. Three, if I do need to tweak my line mid corner the front brake is the only one I would use and if I'm already trailing it I can easily squeeze a little more if I have to (so long as I do it smoothly and I'm not too greedy, bikes have a lot more grip if you lean into it steadily and don't try to grab it all at once, smooth is the key) and four, if you have gone in way too fast trail braking and chucking it in will often scrub off enough speed to get you round whereas standing it up and braking hard will more than likely end with a trip to the kitty litter.

  43. #493
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Cornering is all about the vanishing point.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  44. #494
    Grand Master
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    What’s that phrase ‘Run out of talent’


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  45. #495
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB2 View Post
    This includes the DAS casualty in my office who dropped a perfectly good sports bike as just didn’t realise that autumn tarmac has less grip than summer tarmac.
    TZ-UK mobile app
    Damn those pesky anti-lock brakes.....needed more bhp's obviously.

  46. #496
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Cheers. I’ve ridden a few, including renting a fat boy in Vegas 15 years ago so I know a little what to expect. But I haven’t tried one with an engine post Evo. The Milwaukee gets rave reviews. At a price!

    The 2019 are out, with more 114 where 2018 had 107 so we’ll see how price is affected (say, on a Slim) in May/June. I am not holding my breath though, they keep their value well.

    So it may be an older Heritage, or I may go mad for a «*Captain America*»

    The Twin Cam engines are pretty good in my opinion, reliable and stonking torque. Also anything with injection is normally tuneable with a Vance and Hines fuelpak or equivalent, which makes exhaust and air filter swaps easy. I quite fancy a new one with the Milwaukee 8 engine but am loath to part with my Dyna! Next year will see what wins out!

    Ian

  47. #497
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Groundrush View Post
    Well, yes and no. People do tend to straighten up when braking in a corner mostly because it's hard wired into us to do that. The natural reaction to danger is to stiffen up your shoulders which tends to stand the bike up. But there is nothing about the design of a motorcycle that makes it stand up any more under braking than it would at any other time. In fact, braking tends to squash the font end down which shortens the rake making the bike easier to turn.
    Actually, that isn't true. There is a large effect on the stability of the bike when decelerating (braking) whilst leaning in a corner (which itself is another form of acceleration), due to the fact that you are messing up the gyroscopic balance of the large heavy spinning wheels. Slowing them down does sit them up.

    We feel this on bike, it feeld less stable trying to brake whilst cornering, but more so if you are acceleratiing out of the turn.

    This article skims the surface of the complexity of everything, and provides a bit of an intro to the immensely complex field of bike dynamics, like the lovely wierdness of counter-steering. Turn out to lean in. This is why riding a bike takes a while to master, you have to learn to do things that you don't think you are doing.

    Dave

  48. #498
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    10 pages, and nobody has mentioned countersteering before?
    I'm shocked.










    ...or tyres...or oil....hahahahaaaaaa........

  49. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Slowing them down does sit them up
    Nah, slowing a gyroscope won't stand it up, it'll just precess faster.

    Anyway, now the trolls have turned up I'm off.

  50. #500
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    I'm finding the whole counter steering thing quite fascinating actually, and realised fairly quickly that I was often doing it without realising. Being aware, though, makes it much easier to hold a line through corners, and prevents what was happening occasionally - drifting out and seemingly having to fight the bike a bit.

    Riding is such a learning process.

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