Reply With QuoteNow hold your breath for six months
So I've just sold my first watch on eBay and I have to say it all went quite well. I was quite hesitant as I thought I may have to re-list a few times due to time wasters etc. I listed it last weekend when eBay had a £1 selling fee promotion, got what I feel was a fairly reasonable price and the winner paid instantly :)
Now time to find a Tudor GMT at RRP :)
Now hold your breath for six months
Going to Switzerland in October, so I'm hoping to get one there if I can't find one earlier!Originally Posted by hughtrimble
Now hold your breath for six months
I think what Hugh means is that as the buyer has a six month window in which to wreck the watch and return it to you, you aren't home and dry yet.
I sold a phone on eBay last year, the buyer used it for a few months, scratched the hell out of it then used eBay's f**ked up policies to return it to me and effectively get free use of a high-end smartphone.
Unfortunately yes, I was indeed referring to their incredibly buyer-biased refunds and returns processes.
Yours sounds entirely within their range of 'Sure buyer, have your money back whilst we completely ignore what the seller's said'.
Is this so I don’t get what’s the reason they can return after 6 months?
6 months!!!
I thought it was 14 days :(
Coincidentally I just sold my old phone tonight too... Well I guess that's the last I use eBay to sell anything remotely valuable
On what basis could ebay possibly open a case after several months on a used phone?
I have had a couple of similar problems with eBay/PayPal sales. Here’s the thing - it’s a private sale and all falls under UK law ( never mind what TOCs eBay state). The end buyer is allowed a ‘reasonable’ amount of time to assess the product. Six months is NOT a reasonable time frame. In two cases I side stepped eBays ridiculous process and just dealt with the buyers directly buy way of Small Claims Court. Both times it was all settled before a date was set. As both buyers new rightly that any judge would also consider 6 months usage before requesting a return, ‘unreasonable.’
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Irs very unlikely a case will go in the buyer's favour after such a long period. If it does and if the item comes back with clear signs of damage from use or abuse then appeal the case and make sure eBay compensate or refuse the refund. This is entirely possible for them to do in such rare circumstances. They are only really allowing a platform of protection that an issuing bank already provides to the buyer if a payment is funded from a debit or credit card.
Thats the credit card company though not ebay or even paypal.
How can a payment be funded? Read the link.
If I were PayPal I would change the chargeback description to mention both debit and credit cards, the latter being a section 75 claim when over 100 pounds.
A chargeback is entirely possible when a buyer funds their payment from a debit card. Check with the timeframes banks / issuers allow.
I did.
A chargeback happens when a buyer asks their credit card issuer to reverse a transaction that has already cleared. This can mean that a payment you’ve received in your PayPal account could be reversed, even if you’ve already posted the goods – which can of course be frustrating.
There are a few reasons why a buyer would request a chargeback:
An unauthorised payment was made with the buyer's card
The buyer didn't receive the item that was paid for
There were errors in processing the transaction
The item does not match its description
The maximum time a buyer has to file a chargeback with their credit card company is typically 120 days after the expected delivery of the agreed goods or services. Certain exceptions may apply.
If you wish to dispute a chargeback, you will need to provide certain information and evidence depending on the case. Below are the two most common reasons for chargebacks and the information you need to provide in each case:
1. The buyer didn’t receive the item
You must provide either:
A tracking number as provided by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery and Parcel Force 24
Proof of a refund – this can be evidence from your PayPal account, the back and front copy of a cheque, or a money order used to reimburse the buyer
2. Unauthorised use of credit card
You should provide:
Tracking number for delivery of the item
Proof of a refund – this can be evidence from your PayPal account, the back and front copy of a cheque, or a money order used to reimburse the buyer
Any communication from the buyer, such as emails or positive feedback on eBay
Any contracts signed or information on the sent item
Date that the item was sent and the address it was sent to
Date that the item was sent and the address it was sent to
For intangible items or subscriptions – any information regarding the item or service
In these and all other chargeback cases, the more relevant information you can provide, the better your chance of reversing the chargeback.
Tips to help avoid chargebacks
And so you have probably worked it out, then. If not, keep looking.
By the way Visa say it must be raised within 540 days under section 13.3 of their time limits details.
It would be good of you to apologise for your rather dismissive reply to my link. I used to do this for a living and had to explain to people what to be aware of.
If you want more info or advice then I'm happy to help.
Cheers.
Apologise for my dismissive reply to your link, what on earth are you on about have you been drinking or something?
I dont need to keep looking thanks I can read just fine.
I'll leave you to it.
Exactly that. I was brand-new when I sold it but the seller claimed the brand-new headphones had been used and so the item wasn't as described. I told him to get stuffed, ebay told him to send me back a used Galaxy and so that's exactly what he did.
It was tongue in cheek. :)
Sincerely, though, I'm not sure what you're not understanding?
Seen that happen a lot. What is supposed to happen is eBay or PayPal are notified that the item has been switched before you make a refund or the buyer rings up and says "hey guys my phone was delivered so go and reverse my payment " which can also happen..
Once you notify eBay or PayPal they "should" follow a process to deny the buyer their money in this scenario. Missing items or switched items etc...should all go against the buyer.
Also bear in mind that a seller can sell an innocent buyer a phone, wait a few months, and then claim it's lost or stolen and get an insurance claim on the go. The buyer then has a bricked phone with no recourse, unless they funded from a card or are within the eBay PayPal timeframes to claim.
Just to put the OP's mind at ease somewhat, thankfully there are a lot of good people in this world and the vast amount of transactions that are made go without an issue.
Make sure you keep your proof of postage or scan it and save it on your computer. Always send tracked and insured. If you ever get a buyer that tries to claim it's unauthorised or wasn't received, show your proof of postage that should display the buyer's address as given on the eBay PayPal order details and you'll be covered even in a chargeback case.
A merchandise chargeback is harder to deny, and much rarer. You can always appeal a SNAD claim, but it's not as easy to do so in a merchandise chargeback claim....
I photograph as I am packing,photograph the label with address,and photograph it in the hands of the P.O. employee.
I then send the photos to the buyer with tracking info.
Ok my bad :)
In short we probably mean the same thing, my point was simply when people go on about ebay "Never use them again" etc or paypal the issue is more likely the buyer using their credit card protection than either of those companies.
In regards to the phone understandably annoying as it is it sounds like they had knackered their headphones after a few months use and trying their hand for a new pair (Would you bother are they not just about £10 on amazon?) It probably would have been less hassle to just send them replacement headphones than end up with a knackered phone.
I used to sell in the past (Thankfully had no problems with watches) But come across a few oddballs trying their hand, there was one who made a tidy little business out of buying things, claiming them to be damaged then demanding a partial refund under threat of ruining the sellers name. He did that to quite a few sellers online.
That's it, I think what I was trying to suggest was that eBay and PayPal are simply doing what they're told as dictated by the buyer's issuing bank when most payments are funded by a card or debit card. How could PayPal deny a resolution to someone who funded it with their PayPal balance when another who used their card gets way more protection? As mentioned there are scenarios where the buyer would need that added layer of security for an extended time (insurance job on the phone is a good example).
As buyers we all demand this protection and shouldn't have it any other way. But of course there are loopholes and of course sellers are left all the more vulnerable as a result. It is a risk to sell something. The reward is that the trade ends up with both parties being satisfied and so accurate descriptions and being aware of the appeal process or basic proof of postage / delivery (tracking) retention is what's needed for some peace of mind.
Always push for an appeal before any money has been sent back to the buyer in circumstances where an item has been switched, damaged due to abuse and misuse, or indeed has missing or swapped parts.
Last edited by Bodo; 13th August 2018 at 02:31. Reason: Added proof of tracking
A buyer argued about a watch I sold on eBay last year. 4 months after buying it he said the crown was stiff. Total bollocks of course. Anyway the outcome was swift and in my favour. Ebay’s statement was along the lines of “he left positive feedback saying item was as described”. Whole process took less than a week.
If your listing has good quality photos it helps with the cosmetic condition argument in the event of a dispute. If phone is scratched up then the buyer can not get a refund as he can not return the goods to you in the condition they received it.
That happened to me.
I bought a brand new sealed iPhone. After 4 months the phone couldn’t get signal etc.
Turned out it was blocked reported stolen ! Went trough the PayPal process and after getting confirmation and screenshots of the blocked phone and marching IMEI from the original listing photos they returned my money.
I then had to post the phone back to the original seller wrote I got the refund.
The seller basically had an 800 pound interest free loan for 4 months.
Thanks for all the input everyone. I didn't know half of this stuff. I do always take a picture of it at the post office with all the labels on it and always use a tracked, insured service for higher value stuff.
This seems total stupidity by the seller. There was always going to be a successful claim against him in that scenario and in fact in that case you could have semi destroyed the phone and still got a full refund. He also could be reported for false insurance claim which is basically fraud with full audit trail evidence. Next level stupid really.
I've had one bad experience when the parcel was lost. However it was insured for the correct amount. I had to refund the buyer after a month and I didn't get the money from royal mail for five months.
Your lucky to have a successful claim with Royal Mail. 5 months is a long time to wait. I always notice RM staff selling people insurance for packages but doubt they realise that claiming in case of loss will be very hard going.
I made a claim against Royal Mail for a lost parcel and got the full refund in about 7 days. It was a cheque though, which was a massive PITA seeing as most of my bank's branches have closed.
Better than NO cheque that’s for sure thi
What evidence is that? Photograph the packing then send an identical box containing a potato.
Morning Fezz,
First post, but being an Ebay trader in a previous life and now spending much of my time serving legal papers, the recipients of which often claim to not have been present I may be able to offer some insight...
I agree wholeheartedly with what has been said below with regards to taking full visual evidence of what you are sending. I tended to set my iphone up with a timestamp camera app and film the item and then its packaging and sealing. I also take a time stamped pic outside the post office of the sealed item or letter and hold all the above for 6 months min. It may seem a hassle but it has saved our bacon a few times, especially with higher value items!
It is also a good call on taking the small claims route, it would be interesting to see if, regardless of Ebays return conditions, the sale contract would be valid at small claims thus allowing you to claim damages if your item has been devalued(a bit of a chew on but SC has gone online and there would be significant satisfaction in vindication)
I hope the above helps and fingers crossed your transaction will be one of the millions that go through smoothly rather than the minority that do not!
Welcome
Thanks ISCB! And everybody else.
I posted the watch out yesterday and took many pics of the parcel with all the labels etc. Fingers crossed it doesn't come back to bite me.
I'm quite positive so not gonna let this play on my mind :)
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