The burning question is will this put people off private sales and we all end up buying only from a knowledgeable dealer and then selling it back to the trade when flip time arrives because no one will buy from us.
Would you buy from the SC ? The sellers may be honest but if they themselves bought privately, who knows if the thing is genuine or not.
The one thing I would never do from this day on is accept something through the post. I would only buy from the house or workplace of a private seller and that would be non negotiable.
It's sad that it has come to this but it had to happen, fakes are now very very good.
And the more fakes bought give them the money to invest in better machining processes to iron out the imperfections...
I would only buy from an AD or a well know bricks and mortar outfit.
Even buying from a friend is risky as they may have been duped.
I’m sure there are people on this form unknowingly wearing fakes.
Life has to go on, and we have to be able to buy and sell. After this, I don't think I'd buy a newish Rolex privately; but against that, I recently sold a....genuine...Daytona. If trust dies, so does trade. What to do?
If this replica thing takes off the trust will have been killed, it is as simple as that.
I would not trust you and I would not expect you to trust me as we are buying something that only a very few of us can verify as genuine.
If you play safe and go to buy and then sell back to a dealer, then you will be safe, but it will be a lot more expensive for us.
Never denied it. You'd probably be surprised in the crossover of forum users between the two. Nothing wrong in educating yourself or being aware of the situation. However I'd certainly challenge you to find a single post or picture of mine claiming a fake as a genuine watch or attempting subterfuge in regards to a watch.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
This has to be my last response for a while because I am off out to dinner. Just remember that Hitler tried to flood the UK with fake Pound notes because no one would trust no one else that the currency was legit and nothing would be bought or sold. He would have won the war without firing a shot.
If the fakes are really becoming that good, then it is bad news all round. Even dealers could suffer for obvious reasons.
Not good at all.
Mick, fakes are not new. Don’t worry about it old chap.
In the two/three years I was heavily involved I owned 70-80 'high end' or franken pieces. Sold almost all about four years ago and left the "scene". Kept the ones that were either not worth it to sell or need some work. Did some research a few months ago and found two watches I thought I might like the genuine version of and bought them. So currently 8 "fakes" in my watch box.
No pictures on here as it's a bit of a code of conduct on the replica forums not to.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Thank you Haywood. Excellent reading. Although regarding my recent purchases, I will sleep easy tonight. 😊
Reef Tiger watches bore an amazing similarity to LW & Blancpain so I think they are trying to sell a "legit" line - or tax deduct the R&D and machinery investment.
I suppose in many ways at least the fakers are "honest" vs those trying to pass off and sell as genuine.
Does make you wonder what purpose the fake warranty cards are for if it is not a fraud kit though - hardly a "bit of fun", "seeing if I want to buy a real one" or any of the other justifications is it ?
Out of curiosity ... where are these ‘high end’ fakes now manufactured ? Are they still coming from the Far East ? Or are they now made closer to home e.g. in Europe with more advanced equipment, which would make it much easier to flow across borders?
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Say for example I put my watch up for sale on SC, I could provide a sales receipt and an insurance valuation both in my name and addressed to me showing the date of purchase/serial number that matches the watch/card etc
This could of course all be faked but I would feel confident that most on here would happily purchase the watch knowing it was not a fake/stolen
I see no need to write off the secondhand market and shut down SC just yet :)
The provenance is probably now even more important with fakes getting better and better, and of course reputation
Though the question is, how perfect is the copy? OK even the movement looks exactly the real thing, but does it work like the real thing??? If it does, then you do wonder what you get with the real thing. However, I suspect the reality is that it will won't be much good. However, to maintain the illusion that its a real one long enough for the fraudsters to hide their trails, it would have to work well enough for a while.....
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
You know what? I do. He's being pretty open.
You might not agree with what he does/owns/finds acceptable, but he could just as easily not be so upfront and deceive a lot of people.
I personally don't see the point of owning a fake - ld rather just own the best genuine example of a thing that l can afford.
IP theft is one of those hard to quantify issues. How many of those people who buy a £50 canal Street / pataya Rolex would go buy the real thing? Probably not even close to 1%. So Rolex have lost nothing, the fakers have generated an income flow where there was none before.
In addition there has been a few papers written (on phone so can't link source) that show evidence that brand promotion through counterfeiting has actually been of benefit to a brands overall performance.
That being said the vast majority of people buying a fake know they are, the issue is now that mainstream sources are now being duped where before it was relatively simple for a professional to spot a fake. Now you need to really be on the ball. The tiny minority of fakes that were good enough to pass muster were frankens or gensteins that required a lot of effort to pass off. This thread shows that even stock articles of modern watches are now so good that everyone needs to be aware.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Last edited by Bonesey; 13th January 2018 at 22:01.
I also find the answers quite credible. Count me in as well, I'm no replica nerd but I own a few, and like them. I'm sure I'll have a few more in my time.
People always conflate two separate things in these conversations - the despicable phenomenon of people cheating people with replica or fake watches, and the simple fact of buying, owning and wearing them, which is not dishonest. No, it isn't.
Other frequent questions are:
Why can't you save up and buy a real IWC, Omega, Rolex etc?
Why don't you just buy a homage instead?
In my own case the answer to both is that I already have several, but others' experience may vary.
You, once again, attempt to legitimise the issue.
The desire and wish to own one is not in itself, dishonest - it is a display of deceitful/walt behaviour, let's be clear, the high end stuff is more than the average person would ever spend on a watch, ever. to buy/wear one is nothing more than the watch equivalent of wearing a General's uniform when you are not a General.
To try and habitually claim that buying one does not fund a wrongdoing or crime is pathetic and one you roll out every time the subject comes up.
Heywood posted to educate and warn, not to support the situation.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I have no dog in this fight, but I must say that is a very very silly argument. A watch is a watch. It is something bought by any old schmoe with a few quid, to suggest it's similar to something earned such as rank, dagger or wings is plainly bollocks.The desire and wish to own one is not in itself, dishonest - it is a display of deceitful/walt behaviour, let's be clear, the high end stuff is more than the average person would ever spend on a watch, ever. to buy/wear one is nothing more than the watch equivalent of wearing a General's uniform when you are not a General.
I would suggest that once fakes like this exist, they can potentially "pollute" the legitimate supply of used watches. You may have no intention of abusing a good fake, but do you never ever sell one? Even if you openly sell it as a fake, will the next guy be so open? Does it end with someone thinking they buying the real thing, then discovering its worthless when he ties to sell or service it?
Ah, so buying a £5k watch from a high street store after wanting one for many years and treating oneself is different to buying one from a market stall?
You place too much value on the 'dagger and wings' - illustrative and nothing more, if you struggle to understand this than so be it.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
The other day several posters said they don't mind buying watches that had been used for VAT fraud. Today there is a problem with buying fakes.
Both are unacceptable. Nobody's faeces smell any nicer than the next.
Bonesey, How much would a Chinese Sub like the one in the OP cost, I guess quite a bit ?
Wouldn’t you rather have one real watch than 5(?) fakes ?
Thanks.
I was curious since the implication of your description of the wouldbe seller suggested to me that he was probably working on behalf of a team and had received training on how to act, but would probably not personally be a member of the team (an 'associate' rather than a member). It's just interesting to me how such operations structure themselves.
These are things earned through work so hard most will never comprehend, and require things that most don't possess. No shame in admitting if you're one of the many, just don't walt it. They are anything but "illustrative". A Rolex is a trinket, available to anyone with a half about credit history. Just a thing, like a TV or a car.You place too much value on the 'dagger and wings' - illustrative and nothing more, if you struggle to understand this than so be it.
Last edited by dobbsie; 13th January 2018 at 22:59.
I agree.
If this thread has proved anything it is that we, as lovers of genuine watches, need good, clear information on what to look out for and Bonesey is a useful source of that information.
To victimise him appears to me to be naive, shortsighted and pointless, other than as a tool for certain persons' self-aggrandisement.