Reply With QuoteHi Bob,
Take a look at the hair springs and compare them to the ETA's. This may give some idea of the quality of the movements as well. Finish is not everything now is it.
Eddie sent me a couple of movements, a ST24 (ETA 2824 base) and a ST26 (ETA 2892 base). He asked me if I would take a look at them, which I'm pleased to do.
Here's my (very) tentative plan. When I get home tomorrow I will time them in position. At the weekend, I'll take apart the ST24. I happen to have a spare ETA 2824-2. I'll also take it apart to be able to make some comparisons. Sometime next week I'll do the ST26.
Eddie already said that he would like a close look at the teeth of the wheels. If there is anything else that you would like closely examined, let me know.
They certainly look pretty (although I'm keener on copper finishes).
ST24
ST26
Best wishes,
Bob
Last edited by rfrazier; 9th November 2014 at 03:16.
Hi Bob,
Take a look at the hair springs and compare them to the ETA's. This may give some idea of the quality of the movements as well. Finish is not everything now is it.
I look forward to your opinions on these movements as more than a few of us will probably own a watch powered by them in the future. :)
F.T.F.A.
Bob, I look forward to your observations.
I must say, from the pictures anyway, these look well made and well finished. Looks can be deceiving...
Are those Kif shock protected, Bob?
An excellent project, Bob. Very much looking forward to reading your opinion.
Originally Posted by Michael in Frisco, Texas
It looks like the ST24 has Kif, and the ST26 has Inca.
Best wishes,
Bob
Did anyone else think this thread was going to be about Bob's new bike saddle being soiled by a sea bird?
Excellent!
Best wishes,
Bob
Excellent!
Best wishes,
Bob
Thank you. I was particularly proud of the piece of alliteration I was able to work in there. :D
Same here, looking forward to Bobs verdict :)
karl
The only thing that I've heard can be iffy with these, is that some of the wheels can be slightly eccentric.
Bob, take a look at how the 2892 is built: I have one and my impression is that they are "overengineered", I mean sometimes too many screws to get everything in place...
Nice movement shots btw.
What do you use to time movements? I'm looking for something to check a few watches and wondered what is around for not too much money.
Tra
JasonG
The timer I use is a software program for windows that I'm running under linux. It is 299 GBPs now, but I think it was a bit cheaper when I got it. (Escapement Analyzer.) I eventually paid another 180 GBPs (all in -- shipping, VAT, etc.) for a really nice, refurbished, watch microphone, although the microphone it came with isn't too bad.
Best wishes,
Bob
Dear Bob,
I would like to see a comparison of the escapement, especially the finish on the underside, the quality of the pallet stones.
Looking forward to seeing your review. As the others have said, pallet stones and hairspring are a good indicator of quality...but as are gear teeth - very few of the chinese movements correctly reproduce the epicycloidal teeth used by ETA to reduce friction...
We're looking forward for your report, Bob.
Btw, TZ-UK member pugwash has set up a very nice page about chinese movements:
http://jearle.free.fr/pugwash/
Thank you for all your effort Bob :-)
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
Thanks for doing this Bob,
I'm looking forward to seeing all the results in your posts.
regards
siggy
Hiho,
TBH that is rather more than I was looking to spend! Have you any experience of the "Windows Time Machine"? I seem to remember this was a round a year or two back but haven't noticed it recently. I can put together the microphone and amplification as necessary myself so it's just a matter of getting something to analyse captured sound files (from the built-in soundcard on a PC).
Tra
JasonG
Yes, I have a license for it. It is really intended for clocks. I couldn't get a clean enough signal as regularly as I would like. Also, I think it doesn't do amplitude. However, with a better microphone than I was using, you might have more luck. (Or you have some more sophisticated filtering software.) So, give it a try. I think there is a demo.Hiho,
TBH that is rather more than I was looking to spend! Have you any experience of the "Windows Time Machine"? I seem to remember this was a round a year or two back but haven't noticed it recently. I can put together the microphone and amplification as necessary myself so it's just a matter of getting something to analyse captured sound files (from the built-in soundcard on a PC).
Tra
JasonG
Best wishes,
Bob
For this, I was thinking about showing pictures at 800 x n, with links to full size pictures. The maximum full size is 3888 x n, depending on crop. Or is that just too big to be useful, and something like 1600 for the large one better?
Best wishes,
Bob
As big as you want for me Bob, others may disagree. :wink:
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Wow,
So now not only Sellita, but also the Chinese are making clones of the popular ETA movements, I didn't know that.
If they can deliver them in a range of qualities, like ETA, and all for a sharp price, there's going to be less Swiss Made on the dials.
Well, let's wait and see.
Cheers,
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
I've decided to complete the ST24 (2824) before doing anything with the ST26 (2892).
Can it take dials for the ETA movement? Yes, no problem.
So, now on to the timing. I have a nifty watch microphone, which swirls and twirls so that you can time in position. The program I use allows for this too.
I timed it as I got it: no regulation, no adjustment of beat, no nothing. Here are the results.
I timed it in 5 positions. Pendant (crown) down, pendant left, pendant up, dial down and dial up.
The beat average was .12ms, which is very good. It might be possible to get it down a bit, but I think that anything under .25 is really quite good.
The amplitude average was 286.2, and pretty consistent. One wants it above about 275, and under 315 (or so -- I can seldom remember the higher end). I think that this is a very good average, and it was good in each position.
The overall rate was 4.19 s/d, which is very good. But even more importantly, the biggest difference was 6.75 s/d between PD and PU, which is excellent. The main timing dimensions, DU and PD showed a difference of less than 4 s/d.
Overall, it is an excellent performance, I think.
Best wishes,
Bob
Last edited by rfrazier; 9th November 2014 at 03:17.
So far so good then, thanks for that. :)
Good work, Bob. I think the results of your studies will be pretty influential to many on this forum.
Cheers,
Jim :)
thanks for the effort in this. I am really looking forward to seeing the details :D
i am imprssed with your technical ability and look forward to the next one and hope for an equaly good performance.
The easy part is done.
Best wishes,
Bob
Last edited by rfrazier; 9th November 2014 at 03:17.
So what's that then.....then...
Seagull 2824 version on the right? compared to a Swiss 2824 on the left :?:
Trouble is I'm not skilled enough to notice any difference which I could say makes one superior to the other :roll:
I await your verdict Bob.
regards
siggy
Incredible work Bob!
I'm actually very pleased with the outcome so far :-)
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
Judging by the look of the balance, the one on the right is the Swiss 2824?
Marvellous work.
Cheers,
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Last edited by rfrazier; 9th November 2014 at 03:18.
Quite a marked difference there
Very interesting Bob....not sure which is ETA and which seagull but the one on the right looks to be shockingly bad in terms of quality !
Ouch. Think I can tell which is which :(
Ouch :shock:
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
Last edited by rfrazier; 9th November 2014 at 03:19.
I'd be nervous about opening a case, let alone disassembling a movement!
It's very interesting and informative to see this comparison. Great stuff!
I did not expect such a difference at all.
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet.
Best wishes,
Bob
Offset center wheel.
(I couldn't get the entire wheel into the frame.)
Concentrating on main wheel.
1600 x n.
Full size.
1600 x n.
Full size.
Concentrating on pinion.
1600 x n.
Full size.
1600 x n.
Full size.
Profile.
Concentrating on main wheel.
1600 x n.
Full size.
1600 x n.
Full size.
Best wishes,
Bob
Last edited by rfrazier; 9th November 2014 at 03:19.
Thanks Bob, very illustrative :?
How can this affect the long term performance would be the main issue here
I've not come to any concusion yet, and am putting off any discussion/evaluation until I've got all the evidence. Then I'll say what I think. Others can say what they think when they want.
Best wishes,
Bob
My view is that the Vanguard should use a Miyota, I'd like to see one of those dis-assembled.
There seems to be a lot of difference in the quality between the two movements but then one is probably a lot cheaper than the other.
I'll be interested in your final evaluation Bob.
Cheers,
Neil.
It's allways interesting to know what's moving around in your watch.
And with these razor-sharp pics you get very clear view.
A job for the patient I reckon :) .
Now let's wait for the outcome,
Thanks,
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Last edited by rfrazier; 9th November 2014 at 03:20.
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