Reply With QuoteI'd be all over their customer service deptOriginally Posted by Optimum
I'd also be on to auto express and what car "help" story people
It's ridiculous
A pal with a RRS has just called me looking for advice. She bought the RRS about 13 months ago from LR dealer. The car is now approx 2 years old with 18k miles on it. She's just had the annual service done and they found some oil leaks. Further investigation has shown that there is play in the crankshaft and that is now being replaced under warranty. There appears to be some concern over what damage may have been done to the engine as a result and, whilst not yet confirmed, there has been some mention of a replacement engine.
Now there is no suggestion of any problems in this work being done under warranty, my friend is most unhappy about potentially being left with a car with a new engine that she paid £70k for only a year ago. She is concerned that this won't be the end of the problems and she is concerned about the effects on value and resale. If it needs an engine she would rather reject the vehicle but I suspect that under the pre-Oct 15 consumer legislation there is no scope for rejection at this stage. I suppose that if she kicks up enough of a fuss the dealership may buy it off her but value will likely be an issue and I suspect an independent valuation may be required.
I have a very recent knowledge of rejecting a car under the new regs after only a few days and know nothing about this. Does anyone have any sage advice/experience that I can pass on? (Don't buy JLR or should have bought an MX5 will not be helpful ;-))
I'd be all over their customer service dept
I'd also be on to auto express and what car "help" story people
It's ridiculous
I agree with writing in the strongest fashion to RR customer service asking for the vehicle to be returned to the factory for inspection. The only issue might be the overall age of the car and that she is the second owner. But, hey you have to try and push all of the negatives that you feel you might be subject to after an engine change
I too, rejected a new car after a two weeks following a brake failure at 70mph!! It was a Renault and although I got the right result in the end, it took an awful lot of persistence, phone calls, letters and not backing down
Good Luck with getting this sorted out
John
The pertinent question here is what warranty was offered on the car when she purchased it?
If it's outside that warranty, she could well have problems.
It's no secret they give trouble and are expensive to repair, I'd only ever consider one with a Land Rover extended warranty. It's £1200 per annum IIRC.
If I'd spent 70k on a duff motor I'd be taking hostages now
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^ LOL and this.
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"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Unless there is doubt that the owner has caused the issue by not having the vehicle service or for instance running the engine low on oil then there should be no reason why this shouldn't be warranty.
It won't have any detriment to resale value and why worry about further issues? The vehicle still has a year left of warranty and there is always the option of extending this after that period if she's worried.
I need more information to be able to help you further but TBH there's nothing to be worried about that I can see.
What's the warranty period on a Range Rover? 3 years? I would suggest a replacement engine, with a further 3 year warranty on the engine, would be the way to go. I would also suggest that the dealer throws in at least two free services for the troubles.
As for further problems, who can say? With a warranty in place it shouldn't matter, but there's always a chance that whatever else she buys will have problems anyway. The likelihood of her being able to reject it are slim, and the money lost if she sold to the dealer now (assuming the dealer agrees) would be far more than if she had a spanking new engine with no mileage.
All this is just my common sense thinking, and not based on any real world experience. Sorry.
What's ridiculous....why get auto express involved?
Yes 3 years warranty but LR will never give you additional 3 years on the engine. The warranty on the engine would expire exactly the same time the standard warranty expired.
If the engine had failed 1 week left in the normal warranty then the owner would only get what's left and nothing more.
What about some free new footwell mats aswell ?
On a serious note, I'm sure the J D Power survey puts Lannys and Rangeys somewhere near the bottom of their listings. Bling on rubber.
I think they have all but the performance category as 2 out of 5 stars....
Last edited by reggie747; 25th April 2016 at 21:31.
I'm with you on this one, LR/the dealer appear to be responding reasonably to the issue. Not much for Auto Express to get there there teeth into is it?
I'm not sure I agree. Offer the average man on the street (ie with no mechanical knowledge) a 2 year old RRS with a new engine and one with an original engine with less than 20k miles I suspect that most would shun the one with the replacement. Just IMHO of course and I have no evidence.
Further issues would be a very real worry for me. I may be wrong but I presume the dealer would do the work not the factory. The dealer is the same dealer I use for my Disco and knowing them for a number of years I would not have a huge amount of faith in them undertaking the work perfectly first time. Yes, further problems would be covered under warranty but who wants to be in and out of the dealer all the time?
I agree that, at present, the dealer seems to be doing a good job at trying to keep my friend happy and she has been given a brand new RRS to drive whilst it's in the workshop, so no need for the pitchforks just yet. However, I would be very angry with JLR that a car so young and with such low mileage should be looking at this kind of work - and I'm a JLR fan.
70k for a second-hand Range Rover? What is it, a solid gold one?
Have you seen RR prices recently? It's not hard to spend £100k plus on a new one.
I would personally find that extremely difficult, especially as you could get twenty Defenders for that money. Each to her own though.
Why should having new engine cause her concern ? It's an engine, a mechanical part, they're made to be removed and simply dropped back in and bolted in place. I'd say it increases the value of the vehicle.
It's not like having a roof cut off and a new one welded back on. :D
Entry level price on the 1st Gen model was something south of £50k. Entry level price on the latest model is £62,700. And like with MB, it's pretty well expected that you'll lump a few extras on. Resale is good because they're desirable, but as the OP said - it's 18 months old with 18k on the clock, and it's in need of a new engine. Something is screaming out to me there as being horrendously wrong, probably from the word go! Although you'd have trouble proving that. Hope the OP gets it sorted!
Apples and oranges really. :)
I have to agree that it seems daft money for a posh SUV but some people spend more on a watch...
I don't see what the problem is. It broke, they're fixing it.
You're basing that on your history and experience with a certain dealer, which, to be honest is a little unfair. Your friend will be receiving an engine direct from Land Rover, fitted by factory trained technicians using Additional Land Rover parts, fitted to Land Rover specifications using their own procedures. She will then also have a further years warranty should the unthinkable happen and then have the option to continue with a car care plan if she so chooses.
I don't understand "but what if anything else happens" Anything else could happen on another new car she purchases.....it is by nature a mechanical object which has mechanical parts which believe it or not sometimes fail. It's the reason why JLR and most manafactures offer a warranty on their cars......if cars didn't fail there would be no need to have a warranty.
Her car has failed and it's being dealt with in a manner that would be expected, I really fail to see what else they could do in this instance. Engines, gearboxes, and all manner of components fault on all sorts of vehicles, ok they shouldn't but they do. I don't think I know of any manafacture that's ever had 0% failure rates with any mass produced vehicle.
Agreed, there doesn't seem to be anything else the dealer could reasonably do.
Having had it 18 months......
Suggest to the dealer they give her top book for the car (at current age, condition) against something else (assuming she wants another/similar and hasn't lost faith in Lr/RR). They do the warranty fix in their own time etc etc
Whilst it won't be worth what she paid for it after 18m and xx miles, she's no worse off.
If I were in the market and had a choice between two identical vehicles, one with an 18k engine and the other with a brand new engine fitted by a main dealer, I'd take the one with the new engine every time.
Me too - but there are many who (with good reason) would walk away fearing a Friday afternoon car - where the gearbox, transmission etc fails next. I'd take the chance, but many wouldn't.
I'd steer well clear of a car with a switched out engine. It would make me think it hadn't been looked after properly.
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I'm not sure what is unfair about judging a dealer based upon your own actual experience of that dealer - how else should one judge a dealer's abilities? Further, it's abundantly clear that I was not referring to "but what if anything else happens". Rather I was referring to problems arising out of the removal and fitment of a new engine, something that apparently my friend has some prior experience of.
I appreciate that you are or work for a LR dealer and have a vested interest in defending their products but I think you're being rather dismissive of how someone might feel when experiencing this type of problem. I don't know whether you deal face to face with customers who have warranty issues but I'd like to think you would hold back a bit on the sarcasm.
Because if the press get hold of it they will plop themselves
Would you buy a RR that has had a replacement engine?
Even under warranty etc???
No - it'll depreciate more because of it imo
They should exchange the vehicle of agree a buy back
I would not
I'm not in the street st the mo though....
I'd take the one with the factory fitted engine. I've walked away from cars in the past for thsi very reason. Something just seems like it's asking for more trouble with a replacement engine.
If it is a brand new engine fitted correctly and not a refurb, then I'd be happy with it.
I would be asking for an extension of the warranty.
I had a RRFF which had the well known diff problem sorted under warranty with no issues. They did later recall all the early cars to have them sorted as well.
It will depend on which RR garage she is dealing with, as from my experience they varied greatly.
It might be worth her talking directly with JLR customer services as they are pretty good in sorting things out.
A friend had a collossal problem with the gearbox and engine on his car, a Disco he'd owned from new, not done many miles in and with proper service history. It was resolved after a couple of years of the car sitting in storage at or courtesy of the dealer and that was in spite of him working for Land Rover on a freelance basis.
I think the trick is to keep on at the dealer and if necessary, Land Rover, at all levels and kick up the biggest stink possible.
"A man of little significance"
I'm not dismissive or sarcastic regarding your friends issue, you asked a question on a forum for which I'm attempting to answer....I'm sorry if you feel that what I'm suggesting falls outside of your friends expectations. The simple matter remains your friend has purchased a second hand car 18 months ago which has subsequently failed. The failure has been identified, diagnosed and seeming will be repaired with no cost at all to your friend under the vehicles 3 year warranty. I understand there is inconvenience will all of this however the dealership appear to have given her onward travel solution whilst her vehicle is being repaired. There is nothing new with an engine failing within warranty period, there is no reason to suggest that there maybe further complications but I feel we've done that subject to death.
I understand that she may feel that a failure of an engine shouldn't happen however engines do fail, however the garage are following the correct steps to get this rectified.
I'm fairly certain she doesn't have the grounds to reject the car but if she feels that strongly that she can no longer continue with the vehicle then the suggestion that acneal made regarding given her a good price for her car and then changing vehicles is the best solution. I'm sure they would give her a favourable deal in the name of customer satisfaction.
As someone earlier noted, Land Rover/Range Rover have a pretty dreadful rep for reliability, I have 2 friends who have had similar issues and now wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. Theirs were brand new and never got properly sorted, it was problem after problem. I hope your friend gets a decent result.
They are 'reassuringly expensive, sir. Our discerning clients prefer them that way'
I always said if I buy a Range Rover it must be within warranty period as I am fully aware of the dreadful reliability. I have friends who have spent £60k+ on brand new cars and have had dashboards light up like Christmas trees within weeks. All good if you have a warranty, after 3 years though I wouldn't want the diagnostic and repair bills...
I bought a VW Polo new - at 2 years it developed an oil pressure fault they simply couldn't track down so VW told the dealer to fit a new engine so that the old one could go back to them for diagnosis.
There's many reasons a relatively new car would have a new engine. Customer abuse is most likely not the most common one.
Regards the Range Rover, having worked in the industry with a specialist in 4WD I love them, but would never buy one with my own cash unless money really didnt matter to me
Last edited by Scepticalist; 27th April 2016 at 09:07.
Had my RR for 4+ years now. Only problem has been a leak from a short section of cooling hose which had a small split. £7 to fix.
Last edited by steptoe; 27th April 2016 at 11:01.
You must have been one of the lucky ones......
I wouldn't worry about the engine etc if its being done under warranty and making sure its all documented etc.
Purchased my old BMW M5 that had its engine changed at 10k due to a faulty oil pump, was fully documented in the records.
If the car gets a replacement engine under warranty I really can't see any reason for concern. It's unusual for a modern vehicle but obviously it can still happen.
Spending £70k on any car is a questionable decision IMO but regardless of cost a car is still a collection of mechanical systems which can occasionally go wrong. Just because it costs a lot doesn't make it immune!
I find it incredible that anyone could even consider this to be grounds to reject the car! When you buy something, you take the decision to own it and accept the risk that it might go faulty; that's what warranties are for. The warranty is a guarantee that the manufacture will fix the item, not a guarantee that it won't go wrong.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 28th April 2016 at 09:12.
My workmates farther in law ended up taking a Land Rover dealer to court to get his money back on a brand new rr with an endless list of faults
You can't possibly go endorsing a common sense approach.. That's far too simple. Where's your sense of drama, internet forums love a drama.
Or possibly you never hear or read about the reliable ones on the internet, just the problematic. Which gives a distorted view.
I can understand someone's caution around issues (you know, the what next scenario), but personally, I'd be happy with a brand spanking new engine under warranty on a car I'd bought second hand (one would assume the unit itself would also have some level of guarantee outside of warranty too?). Regardless, I'd also look to extend the warranty in that scenario if keeping it longer term.
I think this sums up my view.
A mechanical part has failed, they're offering to replace that part and all the parts that may have been affected as a result (without clear evidence they have, it appears).
I'd say she's getting a good deal.
Whether this should have happened is a bit of a moot point, they're replacing more than they're probably legally obliged to.
It's ridiculous!
M.
I'm currently driving a 2016 diesel RR Autobiography and I think the UK price is £91,000.
The first time I've ever driven a diesel RR and pretty nice it is too, but working out all the controls on it is time-consuming and I can't help thinking that consequently there is a lot to go wrong on it in the future.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
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