Knife fascination

[soapy]

waiting for photobucket

back to the law, its not only that you have to be right, you have to be careful how you handle the policeman.

who on seeing a UKPK [say] for the first time might not know that it is lawful to carry.

[soapy]

Its a Shing

he seems to have a very good reputation.
the quality of his workmanship is high on this
its about as large as you can get and be legal.
its an old sodbuster design slippy.

here with 3 of the [my] best.
I will do a small review some time.


so its American, French, English

I would be happy with any one of these if I had to choose.

[Jega]

If you think your knife is sharp then take a look at a REALLY sharp knife .
22 plastic water bottles .
http://imgur.com/IPY3p5X

[paul.in.kendal]

...back to the law, its not only that you have to be right, you have to be careful how you handle the policeman.

This.

Worth remembering that, even if your blade is not locking nor over three inches, it can STILL get you in trouble if the copper thinks you're up to mischief.

So you might restrict yourself to an EDC knife and get busted anyway.

[GrahamB]

This.

Worth remembering that, even if your blade is not locking nor over three inches, it can STILL get you in trouble if the copper thinks you're up to mischief.

So you might restrict yourself to an EDC knife and get busted anyway.

Paul,

The difference is that with a UK legal pocket knife the Police have to prove you were up to, or intending to get up to, mischief. That isn't as straightforward as you think.

With a non UK EDC knife the simple possession is an offence and you have to prove that you have a good reason, in the eyes of a court, to carry it. Being safer than a folder is not good enough, forgetting you had it on you or in your car isn't either. There are clearly defined reasons and courts tend not to deviate that much from them. A chef on his way to work stopping off a Tesco will be guilty if he get stopped carrying his knives if it was reasonable to leave them in his car but, not guilty if he had no car. The law is stupid but, it is the law.

The first instance, UK EDC knife, they have to prove

The second instance, non EDC knife, you have to prove

Graham

[poppy]

Thats a great looking thing. What was the lead time?

[soapy]

I got it SH so a couple of days, it looks like new.

he has a small website but it's hard to find.

I just made my lunchtime sandwhich with it (any excuse).


If like all 3, but if I am brutally honest I think the UKPK is a far more useful tool, but possibly not as strong.
Cut only with it though! don't prise,the other 2 are more robust.
The one handed opening and larger grip extending onto the blade make it a better constant user if you have to keep opening and closing.
the design has come from necessity yet it's not just superb it is better.

I like the other 2 for traditional values,it's better in most European country's to have 2 hand opening.
The sodbuster has a long history behind it.
the French knife is my favourite having met the maker and some of his customers in his shop it's built and used for a purpose.
Ever time I take it out I remember his wife saying when I asked for a pouch "it's a pocket knife, put it in your pocket"

[thenikjones]

Genuine question - what do you use them for?

I can't think of a single time in the past how ever many years when I have been out and about and thought "Damn, if only I had a knife on me I could do X"

Today I've cut the wrapping on a Dyson vacuum cleaner, cut the tags from clothing fro my son, neatly opened some L&G letters (as I'll be storing them so wanted to be neat) and cut open a bag of cat litter.

Not very exciting but nice to be able to do things without stopping to look for the nearest pair of scissors.

You'll be aware that a UK legal carry knife is pretty small so I wonder why someone wouldn't carry one. My little SAK is also a pen as I've been without one a few times and it can be a PITA.

[luckywatch]

One of my working knifes. A Burton McCall 'Gamekeeper' weighs in at 8 and a half ounces. Fully locking, had it about 30 years. A proper knife....................

[paul.in.kendal]

Paul,

The difference is that with a UK legal pocket knife the Police have to prove you were up to, or intending to get up to, mischief. That isn't as straightforward as you think.

With a non UK EDC knife the simple possession is an offence and you have to prove that you have a good reason, in the eyes of a court, to carry it. Being safer than a folder is not good enough, forgetting you had it on you or in your car isn't either. There are clearly defined reasons and courts tend not to deviate that much from them. A chef on his way to work stopping off a Tesco will be guilty if he get stopped carrying his knives if it was reasonable to leave them in his car but, not guilty if he had no car. The law is stupid but, it is the law.

The first instance, UK EDC knife, they have to prove

The second instance, non EDC knife, you have to prove

Graham

Understood, Graham.

But all of this has to be preceded by a stop and search in the first place. And then by the officer taking the decision to make the arrest, rather than confiscation and a ticking off. I'm assuming an officer is permitted to use his discretion like this?

I've been carrying a non-EDC knife daily now for many years. I have "good reason" (as defined by the law) five days a week. For the other two days, I reckon a stop and search is incredibly unlikely - an officer would have to have "reasonable grounds" to suspect I was carrying a weapon (or illegal drugs, stolen property etc) and there are absolutely no grounds to think that I might be doing so. Without reasonable grounds, any evidence turned up by an illegal search would not be permissible for prosecution, surely?

I'm not advocating others should do what I do - just that the true level of risk involved should be considered objectively.

[Tinker]

Have a Boker 4000, bought, of all places, on the Burlington Arcade ...




Actually, the blade is etched ...

[Tinker]

And a 3000 ...

[Tinker]

My wife uses them to give me a pedicure.

True.

[bitfield]

My wife uses them to give me a pedicure.

True.

I think that's effectively forestalled any future SC posts for them...

[Thorien]

^ genuine lol

[olazz]

Here's one of my custom FF.

[soapy]

That needs a polish 😉

[Tinker]

^ genuine lol

Made me smile, too.

[greasemonkey]

some lovely knives on this thread,i used to make knives as a hobby,this is the last one i made.in truth i didnt make the blade,my good friend ian at Old Oak knives made the blade i only finished and polished it,i made the handle and the nickel silver furniture.OAL is 20 inches blade is RWL34 steel,handle is stained sambur antler.its a totally useless item.it sits in a display cabinet until christmas dinner when it is used to carve the meat.please excuse the poor i phone pics................

[poppy]

That is a very nice looking knife and from the pictures looks to be well executed.

It is an interesting point about only using it once a year. I am finding myself more and more interested in the kind of knives that i would actually carry and use but every so often i see something i want for no sensible reason. Someone was selling a Giraffe bone scaled gentlemans folder on SC recently and it was such a lovely looking thing that i was sorely tempted to buy it. the fact that it had a locking blade (which was "too long") put me off but i keep looking at the manufacturers website and am tempted to buy one anyway.

i suppose if you like nice knives, perhaps it is acceptable to own them as objects, dare i say it as Art of sorts, just to own because you plain and simply like them.

What are peoples thoughts on owning knives just for pleasure? is it comprehensible or bordering on some kind of pyschopathic jason-esque wierdness?

[bitfield]

i suppose if you like nice knives, perhaps it is acceptable to own them as objects, dare i say it as Art of sorts, just to own because you plain and simply like them.

Like watches, you mean?

Yes, I have many a knife which is never used, because they're too nice. I just take them out of the box every so often and smile at them. On the other hand, I have quite a few which do get used, and they're also very nice.

I tend not to tell strangers about my knife collection, though, because there's a certain look I've come to recognise. And that's before we've even got on to the guns...

[GrahamB]

Understood, Graham.

But all of this has to be preceded by a stop and search in the first place. And then by the officer taking the decision to make the arrest, rather than confiscation and a ticking off. I'm assuming an officer is permitted to use his discretion like this?

I've been carrying a non-EDC knife daily now for many years. I have "good reason" (as defined by the law) five days a week. For the other two days, I reckon a stop and search is incredibly unlikely - an officer would have to have "reasonable grounds" to suspect I was carrying a weapon (or illegal drugs, stolen property etc) and there are absolutely no grounds to think that I might be doing so. Without reasonable grounds, any evidence turned up by an illegal search would not be permissible for prosecution, surely?

I'm not advocating others should do what I do - just that the true level of risk involved should be considered objectively.

We all know that the police will use a number of "reasons" to stop anyone they want and there's not really a lot we can do about it but, even if they stop you on a spurious reason that they can justify you are extremely unlikely to escape arrest if you have a non EDC knife in your car or pocket. On the other hand I have been stopped leaving a pub car park after midnight (stone cold sober I may add as I was only picking a mate up) and was asked, as I was leaving a pub at that time of night if I would take a breathalyser test. The silver clip of my SOG Slipzilla was clearly visible on my pocked and I was asked to show it. I did and was handed it back, no confiscation or ticking off as it was perfectly legal.

The police don't have to have reasonable grounds to suspect you are carrying a weapon, if stopped for whatever reason and they find a non EDC knife they can still charge you.

It is interesting that you think that because you are unlikely to be stopped then it is ok to carry a non EDC knife for the two days of the week that you are not at work. You either obey the law or must be prepared to suffer the consequences. Why do you think it is ok to break the law two days each week? Most people that drink and drive are unlikely to be stopped but, they still deserve to be heavily punished if caught. Remember it is up to 4 years in jail and up to a £5,000 fine I don't see why you'd risk that no matter how slight the risk of detection is.

Graham

[soapy]

That is a very nice looking knife and from the pictures looks to be well executed.

It is an interesting point about only using it once a year. I am finding myself more and more interested in the kind of knives that i would actually carry and use but every so often i see something i want for no sensible reason. Someone was selling a Giraffe bone scaled gentlemans folder on SC recently and it was such a lovely looking thing that i was sorely tempted to buy it. the fact that it had a locking blade (which was "too long") put me off but i keep looking at the manufacturers website and am tempted to buy one anyway.

i suppose if you like nice knives, perhaps it is acceptable to own them as objects, dare i say it as Art of sorts, just to own because you plain and simply like them.

What are peoples thoughts on owning knives just for pleasure? is it comprehensible or bordering on some kind of pyschopathic jason-esque wierdness?

you should see the alox sak collections, hundreds of pioneers or cadets or farmers [sometimes all of them] all of different colours from different country's.

mounted in display cabinets with Victorinox old signs or promo material.

or people who collect saks with advertising on them, I am not criticising but it borders on obsessive.
then you get fantasy? type knife collectors or people who just collect well made custom knifes.

its not as people think, its just collectors of fine things or something else cant explain [same as watches in a way].

my fascination with saks was more the history of the tools, the development and there uses which is why I like the old ones.

I am trying hard to stop the getting 2 of everything as a spare routine [though I have 5 alox army knives].

I also like a few custom made UK legal slippys as you can see above.

[soapy]

Last night I decided I had to do a better job at sharpening, my new custom Shing wasn't sharp on arrival.

so I watched this video it wasn't so difficult as I expected I was just very careful.






I also decided I had to find out what a strop was used for/purpose I watched this used an old belt and got good results.

now my Shing will cut oranges down the middle in one easy motion leaving a perfect clean cut.

[Thorien]

Saw this on British Blades forum, seems quick and easy:

[soapy]

looks like it will work as long as the bevel is at the right angle.

[andy tims]

Saw this on British Blades forum, seems quick and easy:

He certainly makes that look easy

[Roy_Drage]

In the back of picking up a couple of SAKs I was chatting to a work colleague about knives. A few days later he brought me in a SAK with Snap On branding and this locking knife.

He was a mechanic in s previous life and used this for cleaning old gaskets from engines, he said it had been in his toolbox for the last 11 years.

It will need a clean up but still has a bit of life left in
It.

[paul.in.kendal]

"We all know that the police will use a number of "reasons" to stop anyone they want and there's not really a lot we can do about it but, even if they stop you on a spurious reason that they can justify you are extremely unlikely to escape arrest if you have a non EDC knife in your car or pocket."

If I'm stopped, but not searched, there'll not find that non EDC knife in my pocket. The offending knife only gets found if they search. If they search without "good reason" - and I'm careful to ensure there's never going to be a genuinely good reason to be searched, then any evidence found is inadmissible. Of course, if a bent copper wants to stitch me up, then there's not much I can do about it, whatever I'm up to.

"The police don't have to have reasonable grounds to suspect you are carrying a weapon..."

Oh yes they do. From gov.uk:

"Stop and search: police powers - A police officer has powers to stop and search you if they have ‘reasonable grounds’ to suspect you’re carrying ... a weapon"

"You either obey the law or must be prepared to suffer the consequences."

Absolutely right.

"Why do you think it is ok to break the law two days each week?"

I think it's OK to break this particular law, because my breaking it is trivial in the extreme and does no harm to anyone. Do you never, ever, break any law, no matter how trivial or daft that law is?

"Most people that drink and drive are unlikely to be stopped but, they still deserve to be heavily punished if caught."

Agreed.

"Remember it is up to 4 years in jail and up to a £5,000 fine. I don't see why you'd risk that no matter how slight the risk of detection is."

Really? No matter HOW slight? I take bigger risks, carrying more serious consequences than this, all the time. We all assess risks differently - I'm dumbfounded that people risk lung cancer by smoking but there you go, we're all different.

[Groundrush]

I'm careful to ensure there's never going to be a genuinely good reason to be searched, then any evidence found is inadmissible

You might want to check that. It seems that any relevant evidence is admissible in a UK court regardless of how it was gathered.

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/court-proce...d-evidence.htm

[andy tims]

I'm not advocating carrying huge great hunting knives or flick knives around, but carrying a slightly long lock knife is hardly crime of the century is it?

Furthermore, unless you're doing something silly I'd say the chances of being stopped and searched are very low, unless you're a young black man in one of the big cities.

[paul.in.kendal]

You might want to check that. It seems that any relevant evidence is admissible in a UK court regardless of how it was gathered.

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/court-proce...d-evidence.htm

Well, well, you learn something new every day - thanks.

[GrahamB]

I'm not advocating carrying huge great hunting knives or flick knives around, but carrying a slightly long lock knife is hardly crime of the century is it?

Why not, if you are going to carry an illegal knife why would you limit yourself to a slightly long lock knife? The law makes no distinction once it is over 3 inches and is locking, it is illegal and as there are plenty of good EDC knives on the market I simply don't feel the need to carry a non EDC knife unless I have a good reason to.

Furthermore, unless you're doing something silly I'd say the chances of being stopped and searched are very low, unless you're a young black man in one of the big cities.

Yes, you are right, it is unlikely but, do you refrain from drinking and driving because you are unlikely to get caught or because refraining from drinking and driving is the right thing to do? After all most people that drink and drive do no harm, don't cause accidents and never hurt another person (if figures are to be believed) Still does not make it legal or even the right thing to do.

Graham

[paul.in.kendal]

I don't know about Andy, but I don't carry a socking great hunting knife because that would not be the best tool for the job. My 3.25" locking SAK is just fine.

And as for drinking and driving, I don't do that because it's potentially very harmful to other people. My choice to carry a slightly oversized locking knife is demonstrably completely harmless. The two behaviours are comparable ONLY in that they're both illegal - any similarity ends there.

[andy tims]

@ GrahamB
OK you've made your point now please change the record and stop preaching.

[GrahamB]

[QUOTE

And as for drinking and driving, I don't do that because it's potentially very harmful to other people. My choice to carry a slightly oversized locking knife is demonstrably completely harmless. The two behaviours are comparable ONLY in that they're both illegal - any similarity ends there.[/QUOTE]

Yes and the penalty for carrying a knife is far more serious than drink driving.

You can call it any way you like but, try substituting "a slightly oversized locking knife" with "an illegal weapon" and maybe it will come clearer to you. It certainly will to any court and is it really worth a deliberate act to break the law even if it is only a "little bit illegal"?

The government is trying with all their mite to paint anyone that carries a knife as a violent thug that should be locked up and deliberately deciding to break the law doesn't do the rest of us any favours.

Graham

[paul.in.kendal]

I'm sure a pillar of the community like yourself Graham understands the difference between blindly obeying stupid laws and doing the right thing:

"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."

Martin Luther King Jr.

Seriously, give it a rest, unless you can honestly say you never, ever, break any laws.

[Thorien]

Received my Roadie yesterday and the got an Urban delivered today from HH - great service from them btw!
The Roadie is so cute and will live on my keys, small but useful blade and pen knife shaped so should be very people friendly.
It has a good grip for its small length aided by the choil and the jimping on top also.
The Urban is also smaller than I thought it'd be and is a perfect every day carry for use around the house.
The Sage is just too nice to use so the Urban will get all the use instead.

[GrahamB]

I'm sure a pillar of the community like yourself Graham understands the difference between blindly obeying stupid laws and doing the right thing:

"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."

Martin Luther King Jr.

Seriously, give it a rest, unless you can honestly say you never, ever, break any laws.

If you can find a single post where I have said I have never broken the law I will be happy to correct it and beg for your forgiveness Paul.

As you you MLK quote, I take it that in the same vein as MLK you are publicising the fact that you are breaking a law that you consider unjust or are you using the quote to hide away from it?

We could all consider some laws unjust, the problem is that the people that think that just because someone made a statement saying we have a moral responsibility to do something does not make it right or do you believe everything that is written down.

Anyway, carry on breaking the law and I will laugh my head off if you get nicked. Wonder how that will work out in a court

"but, your Honour, Martin Luther King said we have a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws"

Oh well.

Graham

[Thorien]

Anyway....


In an attempt to get the thread back on track!


I took a pic of my newly received Spyderco Urban today:



Lovely little UK legal EDC.

[soapy]

they are good, a scaled down version of the UKPK.
I had one in g10 but sold it as I had 2 UKPKs, I preferred the larger size.

[paul.in.kendal]

It was a joke, Graham. That's what the "seriously" indicates.

[Thorien]

they are good, a scaled down version of the UKPK.
I had one in g10 but sold it as I had 2 UKPKs, I preferred the larger size.

Yep, it's actually a lot smaller than I thought it would be but it's fine for everyday tasks at home.
I'm pretty chuffed with it to be honest, and it was sharp as anything straight out of the box.

[soapy]

ive unleashed a monster in you lol

they are very well regarded by those in the know.

whatever you do don't try a G10 version they are even better [somehow].

[Thorien]

^ Hehe yep, I really find myself drawn to Spyderco for some reason, I'm already contemplating my next.
I'm thinking the smaller version of the Paramilitary 2 that's hopefully coming out this year, and also maybe the Sage 5.

[bonzo697]

Just ordered one of these for the shed. Nothing fancy, but they cut stuff that will damage other knives.



Only £4.95 from HH : http://www.heinnie.com/hultafors-heavy-duty-knife-25797

[Kirk280]

Well I bought the Boker and the Enzo from HH (excellent service, btw). Sadly I'm not so taken by the knives. The Boker is far too 'tactical' for my liking, and the Enzo has a sharp corner of the blade top poking out when closed - I found it quite uncomfortable in my pocket. To be honest whilst they are both UK legal carry, I would not be happy carrying them in public.

Interestingly, they both felt inferior to my CRKT drifter knife, which was much cheaper, photo of all three below. Sadly that has a locking blade so unsuitable for outside the house / private land.

The search for a "gentleman's pocket knife" that is UK legal & non-threatening continues! Ideally with a finger choil (I've had bad experiences with SAKs closing on me!) and a pocket clip.

[Kirk280]

[bonzo697]

Well I bought the Boker and the Enzo from HH (excellent service, btw). Sadly I'm not so taken by the knives. The Boker is far too 'tactical' for my liking, and the Enzo has a sharp corner of the blade top poking out when closed - I found it quite uncomfortable in my pocket. To be honest whilst they are both UK legal carry, I would not be happy carrying them in public.

Interestingly, they both felt inferior to my CRKT drifter knife, which was much cheaper, photo of all three below. Sadly that has a locking blade so unsuitable for outside the house / private land.

The search for a "gentleman's pocket knife" that is UK legal & non-threatening continues! Ideally with a finger choil (I've had bad experiences with SAKs closing on me!) and a pocket clip.

I went through the same process and you can't beat a Spyderco UKPK.



If you like CRKT try a Liong Mah which is also a nice knife and very well made for the price.

http://www.heinnie.com/crkt-liong-mah-folder

[soapy]

Hultafors Heavy Duty

they are very cheap there is even a painters version that you can open a tin of paint with

HH have a few on offer I believe

in other news I was fooling my self that I had got that Shing sharp its not an easy job.
my old SAK cuts paper better [the way to test].
So Shing has told me to post it to him and he will sharpen it.
though its not his fault the owner should have at least warned me.