Hi All
Hoping for a little advise here, to say I'm angry is an understatement!
Long story short.....
My wife regularly attends a beauty pallor (I think that what they are generically called!) for "waxing" of various "bits".
Anyway she had an appointment this week which she simply plain forgot, they called her to ask where she was and she apologised and subsequently rebooked. They said at the time that there would be a "penalty" for failing to attend. I must point out that this is the first time it has ever happened.
She arrived today for her rebooked appointment and was told she needed to pay "up front" for her appointment and the full price for the missed one too! So instead f the usual £55.00 she was forced to pay £110.00. Of course my wife being the type of persons she is didn't kick up a fuss and just paid the money.
I was told this evening of this story. Now don't get me wrong I completed understand why they would want to impose charges for "no shows" but come on this is a regular customer and she was made to feel 2" high by the member of staff. That surely is terrible customer service.
At best they have now lost a regular client as she'll never step inside the door again but I've been "stewing" over this all evening.
What has occurred to me is that do they even have the legal right to do this? She has no contract, there is no regular commitment, she has signed nothing. Liz paid the bill on her credit card (she didn't have enough to cash to pay the demanded £110).
Of course I want to march down there and kick up a fuss but this is a very small town and she doesn't want a fuss but I really, really can't let this drop. I must point out though it has NOTHING to do with the money! I just find the level of service and treatment appauling.
So where does she stand legally? Can you demand payment without any form of contract?
TIA
Having quickly read the thread it looks like they didn't demand the payment, they merely informed your wife of their policy and she paid up. If, when told of this charge, she could have told them that she was not happy and have left without payment for either the missed or the rebooked appointment?
In this case, the position of making a claim would have been left with the shop, and in the absence of any contract, would have not been particularly easy or financially rewarding enough to pursue.
I can't see this being much different to a restaurant cancellation charge. Good article here: https://www.thecaterer.com/articles/...nding-contract
Take a step back and consider if you had booked in a client for whatever your business is, time is money and cancelling last minute or forgetting is poor behaviour.
I can see why paying the full amount might be excessive in some circumstances but by missing the appointment your wife has probably cost the business money, that's not fair.
I would expect a little customer service i.e. "miss it again and we have to charge you" but sounds like something my missus would do, especially paying the full £110, my response usually being to shake my head and wonder why she pays without asking me...Originally Posted by Barney12
If it's not the money, why is your question " So where does she stand legally? Can you demand payment without any form of contract?" and not "how to deal with rude customer service"?
If it were me, it would be both the money and rudeness, nothing wrong with not wanting to pay £55, especially as I doubt the loss was £55.
You have 2 ways to deal with it, ask them for a refund on the grounds you were not aware of this charge for missed appointments, if that fails, ask your CC to do a charge back.
Well at least you know what to buy the wife for Xmas, a diary.
Very useful, thank you.
I don't disagree and I did make that point in the OP. What has made me angry was the service element and behaviour of the staff.
Of course the real irony is that they have lost a loyal customer, who spent money every month, month in month out, who in addition will tell everyone (with help from me too) about their poor experience. It will certainly cost them a hell of a lot more than £55!!
Month in month out,? must be a hairy bush!!!
Yep, vote with your feet.
FWIW, my wife went into 3 different hairdressers in the village, not one could book her in this December. So the shop certainly did lose a slot for a paying customer.
How did they lose a slot when they were what appear to be fully booked?
I think he means that they could have had a paying customer in the slot that was forgotten, so the shop lost the income from that slot. ( not trying to answer for anyone here, just my take )
Dont, you will get Magirus overly excited ......Month in month out,? must be a hairy bush!!!
My wife works in an osteopathic practice and they have a cancellation policy. Clients are informed of this, and notices are prominently displayed. The reason behind the policy is that if clients inform the practice in good time (the day before), that appointment may be given to an emergency case, or someone who needs to change their appointment. If a client just fails to attend, the osteopath has an empty slot so he/she is just hanging around and is not making money.
That being said, it is rarely invoked as the consequence is usually never seeing the client again, and other than a letter requesting payment, no further action is taken if payment is not made.
Equally, had I been your wife, I would have told them I expected to be treated as a valued regular customer and if they did not waive their "charge" they would lose the current fee, and I would not darken their door again.
A sad case of poor customer service and their loss.
That makes sense, cheers
It seems fair to be honest, a bit like my old dental practice, which also had a late cancellation fee, i.e. if you cancelled within 48 hours of an appointment you had a set fee (think it was 20 quid), non-attendance meant you were billed for the appointment, which i thought was fair enough.
It might just be worth letting this one go and just letting your wife carry on with this place, doing anything rash at this point will only rebound back at you, just think, 3 months from now you could be sharing a house with Chewbaccas sister if your wife stops the weekly beauty trips!!
Last edited by Argee1977; 19th December 2015 at 10:33.
They certainly should be.
The shop's policy on cancellations is its policy, and they've a perfect right to charge for missed appointments if they want to. Whether they could sue your wife for the money and win is a different matter, but they could certainly have refused to serve her in future if she hadn't paid up. Since she obviously likes the place, it's better to pay a few quid rather than have to find a new beauty parlour—or pallor, if you prefer.
People miss appointments all the time, and if it's a time slot system, then the business does indeed lose money as a result. Some choose to absorb that loss as a cost of doing business (in other words, the customers who do show up subsidise those who don't), others recoup it directly. I reckon your missus won't forget her appointment again, will she? So in that sense the system works.
That's a bit of an entitled view, is it not?
Mrs. Mark runs a traditional Chinese medicine clinic. Her clients get a couple of chances and are then told if they miss another one they will need to pay for it.
The recent ruling by the Supreme Court in ParkingEye vs Beavis has opened the door to all sorts of businesses (not just parking operators) being able to charge a penalty for missed appointments, etc.
See this article for more information: http://www.hardwicke.co.uk/insights/...ngeye-v-beavis
Just one to put down to experience I think. Had your wife refused to pay the charge, I doubt it would have been enforceable, and I'm certain the shop wouldn't have tried. As it was, she paid, and I can't see any grounds for the shop refunding it other than goodwill, which clearly isn't present on either side.
Did the shop lose £55 as a result of your wife not turning up? Yes. If they were fully booked, there was probably an opportunity cost at that level. Was it a sensible pragmatic business decision to charge the full amount? No it wasn't.
Now that to she has paid I'd respectfully suggest that you move on and forget about it. Going to the shop and kicking up a fuss may backfire badly on you. FWIW I think it is entirely reasonable for a business to charge a no-show customer for lost revenue.
My brother (a dentist) makes a charge of £25 for a missed appointment. He doesn't chase anyone for this, but you won't be able to make another appointment unless you pay this fee.
The OP's case seems to be similar, if you don't want to pay the missed appointment fee, then take your teeth, hair or whatever somewhere else.
As usual, George Costanza did it first:
Do they have a letterbox?
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Why risk upsetting the woman who's going to be waxing her cooch?
Oh christ, Addy's here. There goes the neighbourhood
Contact your local trading standards people.
The terms of consumer contracts in many (indeed most) cases are subject to a requirement to be reasonable - whether cancellation charges are reasonable will depend on all the circumstances.
There were also some rinky-dink new regs that came into force last year covering cancellation charges and the situations in which they can be applied : Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations (2013) - they might well apply here.
If you get bored, make a claim in the small claims track in the County Court - hours of fun for all involved.
Hurrah for Statutory Instruments ! Double Hurrah for Directive 2011/83/EU !! - Do remember that UKIP don't want you to get your money back...
Last edited by Bristolian; 19th December 2015 at 18:39.
Would the op be happy if for what ever reason, let's say his work had a power cut. So his employer decided not to pay him for the lost working time.
As I understand it, there was no prominent notice of their cancellation charge policy (I think this is the crux of the matter). I don't think it is deserving of special privilege or treatment for it to be waived. Would you go back if you felt ill done to? We are talking about a client focused business who has now lost a good customer, who it appears has spent a good amount in the past, through lack of flexibility. I see no suggestion that the the OP's wife is a person who has previous DNA's and I am sure she would have appreciated a bit of common sense.
What has been achieved? They have gained £55 and lost at least hundreds in the future. Hardly good business.
What arrogance!
How on earth can you 'know' your wife was a "good" customer - from the business's point of view? Repeat & regular custom certainly.
Lost business? Who knows? Perhaps if they are good at what they do, offer value for money they might actually be pretty busy & profitable despite the lack of your wife's attendence.
And you know what, I wouldn't be at all surprised if she went back in the New Year, despite your ire & ranting.
Advice?
Let it go. Stay out of it. Money was paid voluntarily. Buy her a diary.
Hello Dan :)Oh christ, Addy's here. There goes the neighbourhood
Yep, I've only been here five minutes and I've lowered the tone already...
Er. That was a reply. Not the original poster....
I'm almost too scared to ask why you are asking?
Dentists have done it for years,indeed miss three appointments and you are out!
This is exactly my point. Add to that the "pay the £110 upfront before we commence treatment please" is the real smasher!
Well this has all sparked a lively debate eh!! :-) :-) :-)
My original post was written in anger (oh ok I had been in the pub all evening too!). At the end of the day the money is unimportant. The overriding point is the lack of customer service and making my wife feel like a common criminal.
Yes, taking them to task over the legality of their charge would make me feel better but would more than likely upset my wife even more because I'd be "making a fuss".
I guess at the end of the day I'll just have to live with the satisfaction that they've lost a good, regular spending customer.
For those who have replied stating I'm in some way arrogant, presumptious and rude then I can only suggest you reflect on your own writing style as unfortunately that's the only basis in a forum of which to base a view.
Oh and lastly on the whole muff point..........it's like a bleeding landing strip! 😀😀😀. Our garden receives less attention. Hope that insight is helpful 👍
So ones bound to ask for photos with that last comment you realise 😉
Not great outcome for anyone involved, in my opinion.
The shop have been a bit heavy-handed and subsequently lost a regular customer, which isn`t good for any business. They could've been a bit more lenient but they probably get fed up with this happening to them. Still a bad call on their part in the long run.
Wife's £55 out of pocket by paying the charge, AND she's lost the convenience of using the local beauty parlour where (presumably) she was happy with the service. Sensible action would've been to politely refuse payment, making it clear that she was going to walk away and not keep the current one. Shop owner would've probably backed down; relations would've been a bit tense for a while but after a few weeks they'd all move on.
A well-regarded former colleague of mine, noted for his thick skin and ability to never become angry, once explained his mild demeanour very well. He stated that he never allowed other people to dictate his emotions or control the way he felt, he didn't give anyone the right to do that. Wise words that've stuck with me, even though it's easier said than done. The OP's done just the opposite here, he's got himself cross and irate over something relatively trivial.
Like I said, not a good outcome. If I was the wife I`d give it a couple of weeks then go back and attempt to bury the hatchet, asking for a free session to compensate her loss in return for continuing to give them custom routinely. That's a win-win for all concerned, the business can soak up the 'loss' by fitting her in when they're not fully booked in January when everyone's skint, and the OP's sense of injustice is satisfied.
I should've been a bloody diplomat!
Paul
I think the charge is, or should be valid - if you aren't going to turn up, then advise in good time - or pay for the emplone that hasn't earned anything due to the no show/no pay - I fail to see the problem with the salon's stance.
It's just a matter of time...
The salons loss wouldn't have been £55 for a no show. Whatever products that would have been used during treatment (wax, lotions, potions etc) weren't, so the out of pocket expenses couldn't have added up to the full amount. Whilst I'd expect the salon to be compensated for a no show in all fairness it shouldn't be for the full amount.
It's short sited at the very least; If I tried that on with my clients, 1) I woldnt get it, and 2) I would lose their custom. My buisness is very competitive and like yours, it's a small town.
Unless they are doing very well indeed, it's easy to get a crap name rather than keep a good one.
My lot are older, and I guess I get 2 amonth who arent in. Usually they have gone into hospital or some such.
Loss of revenue.
As PhilipK pointed out, the decision in ParkingEye v. Beavis opens the door for businesses to charge penalty fees as a deterrent, not merely to recover losses, so long as the penalty is not "extravagant or unconscionable". So the salon can charge a penalty without having to justify it on the basis of lost revenue or any other damages.
Out of pocket and in all fairness.
Perhaps but does that not require said penalties to be clearly displayed and in the case of making a booking they need to be advised to the customer at the time of making the booking to be valid?
If I was running a business like this it would be a split charge: £20 to charity and £20 to cover costs.
That way the forgetful client doesn't leave wanting to smear dog muck on the shop owners door handles and hopefully won't be lost as a customer.
This 'policy' would be written on the back of the appointment cards so everyone could read it and think "that's fair enough".
I guess it depends where the salon is located and what sort of clientele they are aiming at. If they're in Mayfair and the rates are astronomical I can understand why they might charge a penalty.
SWMBO is a self employed dental professional. December is complete crap for her. People arranging appointments and then forgetting or just not bothering to turn up. The result of this is she earns peanuts at the most expensive time of the year.
Good customer my backside. If someone frequents a business regularly they are likely to be pretty good at what they do. Being valued should work both ways.
Taking it to Trading Standards? Have a word with yourself.
My thinking as well, I can fully understand why the op is cheesed off but the bottom line is his wife DID miss her appointment and the salon would have lost earnings as a direct result.
I know that future earnings from your wife may now be lost as well (if she decides to go elsewhere) but I suppose the salon has to 'draw the line' with its policy somewhere, otherwise what's the point of having said policy?
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