Who are expensive "military issue" watches for?

[kanenas]

Who are these expensive "military issue" watches for? When I was in the armed forces, we were not issued any watches. My timekeepers were cheap quartzes, a Pulsar and a fake Camel. They kept excellent time and they were expendable, which was all that mattered. Fashion is not high in the list of priorities when you are covered in a dreary drab camouflage uniform all day and most of the night. I would not dream of wearing a 1,300 Euro Sinn EZM and risk losing it or having it stolen. Loss is a real possibility when you walk or run several kilometers every day in the field. Theft is a real possibility when you sleep in close quarters with a few dozen unwashed men that you barely know. The concept of luxury in the infantry is a metal Zippo lighter as opposed to a plastic disposable, and it cost me dearly when I lost mine.

I bought my first military-style watch, the MMT Blackwater, long after I was discharged from the army, for its clean, graceful curves and minimalist Type I dial, and to avoid scratching my heirloom Rolex Date (outfitted with a plastic "crystal" no less, little better than the bottom of a plastic soda bottle).

So, who does Sinn/Jacques Etoile/Doxa/Panerai/Breitling make watches for? The twenty EZM1s issued to German tactical forces hardly justify a production run of thousands of EZM1 variants. Watchmakers sell image and prestige to the rest of us, while the real military cannot afford a fraction of those watches. Just a curious fact of our consumer culture.

[lysanderxiii]

Who are these expensive "military issue" watches for? When I was in the armed forces, we were not issued any watches. My timekeepers were cheap quartzes, a Pulsar and a fake Camel. They kept excellent time and they were expendable, which was all that mattered. Fashion is not high in the list of priorities when you are covered in a dreary drab camouflage uniform all day and most of the night. I would not dream of wearing a 1,300 Euro Sinn EZM and risk losing it or having it stolen. Loss is a real possibility when you walk or run several kilometers every day in the field. Theft is a real possibility when you sleep in close quarters with a few dozen unwashed men that you barely know. The concept of luxury in the infantry is a metal Zippo lighter as opposed to a plastic disposable, and it cost me dearly when I lost mine.

I bought my first military-style watch, the MMT Blackwater, long after I was discharged from the army, for its clean, graceful curves and minimalist Type I dial, and to avoid scratching my heirloom Rolex Date (outfitted with a plastic "crystal" no less, little better than the bottom of a plastic soda bottle).

So, who does Sinn/Jacques Etoile/Doxa/Panerai/Breitling make watches for? The twenty EZM1s issued to German tactical forces hardly justify a production run of thousands of EZM1 variants. Watchmakers sell image and prestige to the rest of us, while the real military cannot afford a fraction of those watches. Just a curious fact of our consumer culture.

I do not know whose Army you're in, but in the US, watches are purchased by the unit from the DLA (Defense Logistics Agency, or one of the service logistics agencies.*) The funding for this sort of thing is controlled by the commander throught the S-4 (Supply Officer.) Nine times out of ten, the S-4 would rather buy something other than watches, but sometimes they do.

As for "expensive" watches, that is a relative term. The current US supply catalog's most expensive watch is $400 (or thereabouts), that NSN will get you either a Seiko, Marathon, or a Tudor**, depending on what's on the shelf. The price is based on how much the government payed for the lastest contract.
_____________
*The DLA, or one of the service logistics agencies, purchase the watches from the manufacturer based on forcast requirement, usually this is based on past requesitions.

**I'm pretty sure all these have been issued out, it's been a while since Tudor has been awarded a contract.

[docrwm]

I know that Pilots and Nav's were issued watches through the Unit while Weapons load crews, line chiefs, and other people that actually worked for a living were not :shock: Like many things it depended on who you were, what you did, who your boss was, and whether the one GS-5 in theFairy Godmother department was back from her seemingly perpetual personal leave that day :lol:

[abraxas]

..............

Who are expensive "military issue" watches for?

Private contractors. :wink:

john


PS Welcome to the forum. 'Kanenas' means 'nobody'.

[Gert]

..............

Who are expensive "military issue" watches for?

Private contractors. :wink:
...

Yes...hmm...perhaps the "Blackwater" were really intended as an issue watch for:

:wink:

They have their own army and airforce, and now a book: http://www.buzzflash.com/store/reviews/524

Cheers,
Gert

[Dave E]

Desk warriors... just like many dive watches are for desk divers :D

[swanbourne]

It's rumoured that there are two unissued 1970s IWC Ingenieur in a military stores in Dorset.

Eddie

[Crusader]

Some Sinns (EZM 1, 142, EZM 2 and EZM 2B) have indeed been issued to German specialist police units (SWAT teams), and the German airforce issues Tutima chronographs in the same price range.

Whether that is sound policy, or just a carry-over from times past, is another thing.

[Saint-Just]

I am not a specialist but depending on which country you served and your unit you could have been issued:
Rolex
Tudor
Omega
Sinn
Stowa
Casio
Auricoste
Smiths
CWC
Lemania
and many, many more.
The fact that YOU were not issued one means that a watch was not deemed critical to carry out your missions (or that politicians did not allocate the budget to the military and decided to send you anyway, I'll stop here and continue that line in the Bear Pit :twisted: ).

[lysanderxiii]

I know that Pilots and Nav's were issued watches through the Unit while Weapons load crews, line chiefs, and other people that actually worked for a living were not :shock: Like many things it depended on who you were, what you did, who your boss was, and whether the one GS-5 in theFairy Godmother department was back from her seemingly perpetual personal leave that day :lol:

When your in the military, no matter what type of unit you are assigned to, you always make sure you have at least two friends in HQ Company, The Mess Sergeant, and the S-4 NCOIC. Optional friends are: your company clerk, and the S-1 NCOIC.

You got to be your own Fairy Godmother. :D

[A.Pottinger]

Not so much the military but for the minister and military man who negotiate the budget, the priorities in between the chains of command ant by this those of the services and requests that go to them from units, departments and so forth. The persons involved play a significant part, often having to run the twin gauntlet of those above an current or prospective policy.

It's a miracle that some truly outstanding watches make it into the military in any numbers-someone in the chain:

a) must have known what they were doing
b) others must have been sleeping

:wink: :lol:

Being a mate of the RQMS is good, and other tasty bits of kit get seen that n'ere were thought to exist :lol:

Armoury can be like that too, but those are always best left in the armoury, for sure.

Best wishes,
AP :)

[worlok]

So, who does Sinn/Jacques Etoile/Doxa/Panerai/Breitling make watches for? The twenty EZM1s issued to German tactical forces hardly justify a production run of thousands of EZM1 variants. Watchmakers sell image and prestige to the rest of us, while the real military cannot afford a fraction of those watches. Just a curious fact of our consumer culture.

Weekend warriors, military and history buffs, macho men, tough guys, and let's not forget the mid life crisis people. :twisted: Seriously, it's just a style that appeals to many. In spite of the rise in obesity and the sedentary lifestyle, you also have many people who are into exercise and other active lifestyles like biking, hiking, etc. "Sporty" things appeal and sell well, and the whole tough MIL look kind of fits in there somewhere for people who have discriminating taste and some extra means to acquire it. Rolex and others have been using that in their ads for ages, using explorers and people in dangerous professions to hawk watches to the common man. It's nothing new.

[A.Pottinger]

Liking the 'All-Man Watch' from Seiko.
It's a great watch, the ad, well that's another matter.
At the other end of the scale is the Rolex in Black and White. A lovely understated watch, and ad to match.

Thanks for those Worlock :)

Best wishes,
AP :)

[swanbourne]

Eddie

[docrwm]

I know that Pilots and Nav's were issued watches through the Unit while Weapons load crews, line chiefs, and other people that actually worked for a living were not :shock: Like many things it depended on who you were, what you did, who your boss was, and whether the one GS-5 in theFairy Godmother department was back from her seemingly perpetual personal leave that day :lol:

When your in the military, no matter what type of unit you are assigned to, you always make sure you have at least two friends in HQ Company, The Mess Sergeant, and the S-4 NCOIC. Optional friends are: your company clerk, and the S-1 NCOIC.

You got to be your own Fairy Godmother. :D

Amen on the NCOIC's. I had a friend in the Army on duty in Germany in the 80s - he was the junior Lt. Was assigned to "command" a convoy from the weapons storage facility to the training area. On the way to the facility he had 12 vehicles in the convoy. Upon arriving at the training facility from the weapons storage facility he had 10 vehicles. He called me?!?! Having had a father that was a Gunny in the USMC I told him to call the Top Soldier in his unit and throw himself on his mercy. He did not do so and they called an alert, had the ready company on search duty, and involved the Col. The drivers and loaders were at a Bier hall having a few on the road from the weapons load facility to the training location! :shock:

I asked my father about it after I got the entire story and he just shook his head and said two words......."Damn Lieutenants!" I asked him if my advice was sound and he looked at me for a while and then said "Son, I told you to make friends with the NCOIC when you arrived at the duty station NOT after you F$%^ed up!" :lol:

I never had problems like my friend - of course I made a few mistakes but somehow they never got into my service records.......

[JP (Europe)]

So the Bulova and Seiko made orange dial watches already on 60´s/70´s :twisted: :twisted:

[kanenas]

Rolex and others have been using that in their ads for ages, using explorers and people in dangerous professions to hawk watches to the common man. It's nothing new.

[outstanding collection of ads deleted]

My favorite is the Bond Submariner in Goldfinger with the vastly undersized strap.

[Crusader]

Eddie

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[kanenas]

I do not know whose Army you're in, but in the US, watches are purchased by the unit from the DLA (Defense Logistics Agency, or one of the service logistics agencies.*) The funding for this sort of thing is controlled by the commander throught the S-4 (Supply Officer.) Nine times out of ten, the S-4 would rather buy something other than watches, but sometimes they do.

As for "expensive" watches, that is a relative term. The current US supply catalog's most expensive watch is $400 (or thereabouts), that NSN will get you either a Seiko, Marathon, or a Tudor**, depending on what's on the shelf. The price is based on how much the government payed for the lastest contract.

I served in the Greek army, which obviously was more frugal. Still, my point is that $400 is nowhere near what brand names charge for "military-style" automatic watches, i.e., upwards of 1,000 EUR/USD.

Is it fair to assume that, if the US Army refuses to spend more than $400 on a watch, then this sum is pretty close to the real value of a good watch?

[rfrazier]

Is it fair to assume that, if the US Army refuses to spend more than $400 on a watch, then this sum is pretty close to the real value of a good watch?

No. Government organizations, including military ones, don't always get the best deal. One reason is the general problem of spending others' money. The second is that there is usually a specification, and the thing has to satisfy it. And this may include stuff that isn't so valuable elsewhere.

When I was in the USCG we started using some off-the-shelf radio stuff because what we could get through "the system" was way more expensive, and way less good.

Best wishes,
Bob

PS Of course the crypto stuff was still bought through government contract.
RLF

PPS However, it could be that someone like Marathon looks at their government contracts as a kind of loss-leader. ;)
RLF

[JCJM]

I do not know whose Army you're in, but in the US, watches are purchased by the unit from the DLA (Defense Logistics Agency, or one of the service logistics agencies.*) The funding for this sort of thing is controlled by the commander throught the S-4 (Supply Officer.) Nine times out of ten, the S-4 would rather buy something other than watches, but sometimes they do.

As for "expensive" watches, that is a relative term. The current US supply catalog's most expensive watch is $400 (or thereabouts), that NSN will get you either a Seiko, Marathon, or a Tudor**, depending on what's on the shelf. The price is based on how much the government payed for the lastest contract.

I served in the Greek army, which obviously was more frugal. Still, my point is that $400 is nowhere near what brand names charge for "military-style" automatic watches, i.e., upwards of 1,000 EUR/USD.

Is it fair to assume that, if the US Army refuses to spend more than $400 on a watch, then this sum is pretty close to the real value of a good watch?

What government pays is totally irrevelant of what is the price of the same core product for the private sector. Hell! - many brands would give their stuff almost for free to some of the highly regarded military units for marketing purposes. The name of the game is halo effect and that brand gets it whose products are being used by the sponsored mil units. Call it a transfer of value if you will. Why do you think Rolex, Doxa, Omega, IWC etc are so highly valued on todays market place where 99% of the buyers couldnt tell the difference between a ETA2824-2 and a El Primero. Because of the horologic achievements of the makers? - partly yes, but mostly not IMHO.

[Dean in Canuckistan]

That photo (the watch, not the sasquatch looking guy) is so beautiful... I've never wanted an Explorer before but now I'm having feelings...

[worlok]

That photo (the watch, not the sasquatch looking guy) is so beautiful... I've never wanted an Explorer before but now I'm having feelings...

Then I think that I owe you an APOLOGY for doing that to you. :twisted:

[lysanderxiii]

I served in the Greek army, which obviously was more frugal. Still, my point is that $400 is nowhere near what brand names charge for "military-style" automatic watches, i.e., upwards of 1,000 EUR/USD.

Is it fair to assume that, if the US Army refuses to spend more than $400 on a watch, then this sum is pretty close to the real value of a good watch?

How the supply system works, brief version:

The requiring Agency set forth a written set of specifications, they may be a formal MIL-W-XXX type specifications, or they may be less general Purchace document, either way, they are published in a Request For Proposals (RFP). Manufacturers then submit their designs and a few samples to the agency for review and/or testing. If they are up to the standards set forth in the RFP, they are ranked by how well they performed, how much they cost, and whether or not the company has the capability to delivery in the quantities required. The highest ranked is then chosen, and offered a contract.

[manfis]

"All-man man's watch" - just what I need!

:lol: :lol:

(Seriously, it's actually a very nice looking timepiece.)

[kanenas]

How the supply system works, brief version:

The requiring Agency set forth a written set of specifications, they may be a formal MIL-W-XXX type specifications, or they may be less general Purchace document, either way, they are published in a Request For Proposals (RFP). Manufacturers then submit their designs and a few samples to the agency for review and/or testing. If they are up to the standards set forth in the RFP, they are ranked by how well they performed, how much they cost, and whether or not the company has the capability to delivery in the quantities required. The highest ranked is then chosen, and offered a contract.

This sounds like a more or less rational procedure, which results in 400 USD (at most) for a genuine military-issued watch. My point is that consumers in the open market pay upwards of 1,000 USD for military-style brands, whether they have been issued or not. The price differential is substantial, and it buys image, possibly, but not necessarily improved quality. As for the image of brand name watches, it can certainly backfire: Everytime I see a Submariner on a wrist I can't help thinking that the fakes possibly outnumber the genuine. So, chances are what I see is a fake, no?

[Saint-Just]

This sounds like a more or less rational procedure, which results in 400 USD (at most) for a genuine military-issued watch. My point is that consumers in the open market pay upwards of 1,000 USD for military-style brands, whether they have been issued or not. The price differential is substantial, and it buys image, possibly, but not necessarily improved quality. As for the image of brand name watches, it can certainly backfire: Everytime I see a Submariner on a wrist I can't help thinking that the fakes possibly outnumber the genuine. So, chances are what I see is a fake, no?

What exactly is your point?
Mil style carries an image, and manufacturers cash in? Yes they do.
Fakes are a plague for the brands? Yes they are

BTW, if you see a sub as a mil watch good for you. To me it is more the archetype of the dual sports/dress watch. The fact that if I see one on someone else's wrist I have a >50% chance that it's a fake doesn't affect me. I wear my watches for myself, mostly hidden with my shirt.

[kanenas]

BTW, if you see a sub as a mil watch good for you. To me it is more the archetype of the dual sports/dress watch. The fact that if I see one on someone else's wrist I have a >50% chance that it's a fake doesn't affect me. I wear my watches for myself, mostly hidden with my shirt.

007, a naval officer, wore military issue Sub A/6538 on Nato strap. I am not making stuff up, I lift it off other people's web sites (who make it up :) ).

I think it is fair to say that at least some people wear Subs for other people to see. This effect is diluted when replicas abound. Whereas other status symbols such as sports cars are harder to fake, no?

[swanbourne]

Strictly speaking, all military issue watches are issued on an "as needed" basis and then returned to the stores. As an accountable item (ie, one of value and not a consumable), the recipient has to sign for the watch using Army Form G1098 which has become known by the abbreviation "G10".

A regiment of 600 would have no more than 50 of the basic G10 watches on inventory and, depending on their role, possibly a chronograph or two and a couple of dive watches. Specialist units would have a different mix depending on their speciality.

My own experience is that most senior NCOs have watches on semi-permanent loan and private soldiers are rarely issued with one and then, only on an "as needed" basis.

As an accountable item, the loss of a watch would normally trigger a regimental inquiry and if negligence was proved, the offender would have to pay for it in addition to any disciplinary action which could be taken.

Eddie

[rfrazier]

My own experience is that most senior NCOs have watches on semi-permanent loan and private soldiers are rarely issued with one and then, only on an "as needed" basis.

Read as "I had one, you silly buggers!"?

Best wishes,
Bob

[JCJM]

I am sorry but I just cant see whats your point Kanenas?

If you are saying that brands shouldnt exploit mans need to portray himself as the Alfa-male in his social habitat via visual signs such as the car, watch and dressing you can mock as long as you want but that need - and brands to supply a temporary fix for it - wont go away as long men are insecure. Why? - Because that insecurenes wont go away no matter what car you drive, what watch you wear or what designer cloths you walk the walk in. Sorry but thats the way it is. A Mercedes wont make you a more secure. It may boost your ego and confidence superficially but wont do more than that.

Are there then secure men who just happen to like mil style watches and who dont give a f@@k about what other people think of them or their watches? Yeah, but those represent a minority portion of the total sales. So, you bet brands will continue selling and advertising watches as aids for the insecure men to portray themselves as the Alfa-male.

If - instead of the brands - you are targeting the insecure men for at least trying to do something to make that insecurity go away please dont. - We have enough hard time and misery even without someone rubbing our noses to it and making us realize how sad we really are :twisted: :D

[Wraith]

The best way to get a Mil style watch for cheap. In fact they'll pay you money to do it. Is to join this organisation http://www.army.mod.uk sign out a G10, go diffy and pay the £8 or however much it now is...

[BruceS]

Good post JCJM. Do away with the "Alpa male" marketing and all we would have left are dress watches, and not many of those! :lol: I think that a lot of men, WIS in particular, choose watches for much the same reasons they choose cars, clothes, etc. Much of it is about the image one wants to portray. For some, it's a genuine interest in the product or its history, but for most of us, image plays a large roll. If that's insecurity (and it likely is) then so be it.
Cheers,
Bruce

[JCJM]

Good post JCJM. Do away with the "Alpa male" marketing and all we would have left are dress watches, and not many of those! :lol: I think that a lot of men, WIS in particular, choose watches for much the same reasons they choose cars, clothes, etc. Much of it is about the image one wants to portray. For some, it's a genuine interest in the product or its history, but for most of us, image plays a large roll. If that's insecurity (and it likely is) then so be it.
Cheers,
Bruce

Lets face it. Humans are social, hence hierachial, predators. We have our eyes on front of us for being able to judge distances with pinpoint accuracy as do most predators who hunt via eyesight (stereo sight). What does that leave us? - We are are social, hierarchical animals who use mostly eyesight to scan our environment and to make conclusions of it.

So yes. Image plays an important role, do we want or are we able to acknowledge it is an other thing. And yes. There are those who are immune to peer pressure and have risen above acting based on whats deemed as right and wrong in their living habitat as that right and wrong is a matter of time and place hence shifting all the time unlike the inner morals which are fixed on ones value system.

As you say "much of it is about the image one wants to portray." Hence I always wear a jacket at work banking on the halo effect of portraying a smarter image of myself. - It is purely utalitarian and superficial yet it works. - I appear to be more "professional" and blend in better with my colleagues who dress alike.

Compensating insecurity with superficial aids - like expensive watches -comes to play when you dont recognize it but still do it as a consecuence for trying to fix that fugly feeling of lacking inside of yourself. You do it the only way you know, which is with buying expensive stuff because in this money led western world of ours you were led to believe that buying is the solution. It aint. Some find the inner peace via religion (which IMO has been replaced with commercialism lately), some via conquering hardships in their life, some via being taught how to become real men by other real men.

And the latter ones are scarely scarce. IMHO real men are dangered species and if the older generations wont pass the torch on (they arent) we are left but nothing but a pale image of what men are suppose to be like. I am not speaking of outer appearances but lets face it - who wants to come into contact with his inner androgyne? Heck, most women I know have more balls than most men do nowadays. Its sad and wearing brands X, Y and Z wont make any difference inside of you. I know as I´ve been there. Partially still am I confes but at least I admit I am :roll:

[BruceS]

Very true! Back to the original question. I think the answer is pretty simple. Guys like guy stuff. Military style watches are guy stuff. It ain't much harder than that :D

[JCJM]

Very true! Back to the original question. I think the answer is pretty simple. Guys like guy stuff. Military style watches are guy stuff. It ain't much harder than that :D

That true. Another thing is why :D

[BruceS]

Very true! Back to the original question. I think the answer is pretty simple. Guys like guy stuff. Military style watches are guy stuff. It ain't much harder than that :D

That true. Another thing is why :D

Women. It's all their fault :lol:

[JCJM]

Very true! Back to the original question. I think the answer is pretty simple. Guys like guy stuff. Military style watches are guy stuff. It ain't much harder than that :D

That true. Another thing is why :D

Women. It's all their fault :lol:

Cant argue with that :lol:

[lysanderxiii]

Strictly speaking, all military issue watches are issued on an "as needed" basis and then returned to the stores. As an accountable item (ie, one of value and not a consumable), the recipient has to sign for the watch using Army Form G1098 which has become known by the abbreviation "G10".

A regiment of 600 would have no more than 50 of the basic G10 watches on inventory and, depending on their role, possibly a chronograph or two and a couple of dive watches. Specialist units would have a different mix depending on their speciality.

My own experience is that most senior NCOs have watches on semi-permanent loan and private soldiers are rarely issued with one and then, only on an "as needed" basis.

As an accountable item, the loss of a watch would normally trigger a regimental inquiry and if negligence was proved, the offender would have to pay for it in addition to any disciplinary action which could be taken.

Eddie

You lot are a bit more strict.

When I was in, lost of something like a watch would be handled solely by the PLT Sgt or maybe the 1st SGT ("YOU lost it!? Crap, now I have to do paperwork, Damn it!") followed by filling out some paper work stating how much the item cost and the circumstances surrounding its lost. This paperwork would be carried down to the finance office where the offender would either pay cash (or check) in the amount of the item, or have it deducted from his pay. Then you would go back to supply to get another item, maybe.

[kanenas]

I am sorry but I just cant see whats your point Kanenas?

You have made my point, I couldn't say it more eloquently myself.

If - instead of the brands - you are targeting the insecure men for at least trying to do something to make that insecurity go away please dont. - We have enough hard time and misery even without someone rubbing our noses to it and making us realize how sad we really are :twisted: :D

Please note that my terms are not judgemental. I am saying that expensive brands cash in on the image of military ruggedeness/glamor/patriotism to sell military-inspired watches, while the real military much of the time cannot afford multi-thousand Euro/Pound/Dollar watches. This is a paradox of modern consumer culture. It is neither good or bad, it just is. Also I am saying that military life, in my experience, is not glamorous to begin with, it is a duty (if you are drafted) or a job (if you are paid). Again, no judgement here and no offense.

[kanenas]

as a consecuence for trying to fix that fugly feeling of lacking inside of yourself.

I like "fugly" myself :)

[Ron Jr]

I had to supply my own watch when I was in the USAF.

[Verkitso]

This might be a bit of a digression, but JCJM, you mentioned the existence of 'real men.' Do you have a working definition of what constitutes a 'real man,' because I see this term bandied about quite frequently, but there's seemingly no real consensus as to what it means..?

[Crusader]

Good post JCJM. Do away with the "Alpa male" marketing and all we would have left are dress watches, and not many of those! :lol: I think that a lot of men, WIS in particular, choose watches for much the same reasons they choose cars, clothes, etc. Much of it is about the image one wants to portray. For some, it's a genuine interest in the product or its history, but for most of us, image plays a large roll. If that's insecurity (and it likely is) then so be it.
Cheers,
Bruce

Well said. While I don't discount the "outside psychological factor" (impressing other people), there is also the "intoverted" WIS who wears watches because they project an image not on others' minds, but on his own.

I probably like aviation watches because I am fascinated by human powered flight, and wearing an aviation watch because in that way I can partake in a very small way in an activity that I much love and admire. Call it a dream world. I am sure the popularity of sportsy divers is not always due to the desire to impress nubile females or male rivals, but also to affirm the wearer in his belief that he is a sportsy type. Much more innocuous. :wink:

I don't give a hoot about what others positively think about my watches, except that I take care not to wear something that would be incongruous (but the same goes for clothes, hats, cars etc.).

[Nalu]

Very true! Back to the original question. I think the answer is pretty simple. Guys like guy stuff. Military style watches are guy stuff. It ain't much harder than that :D

Bruce, there is a chain of stores here in the PNW called "GI Joe's". They deal in sporting goods and automobile parts and accessories and offer a standing 10% discount to service members. If they served pints, I'd never shop anywhere else. If they added naked women, I'd never leave :D

[Nalu]

Strictly speaking, all military issue watches are issued on an "as needed" basis and then returned to the stores. As an accountable item (ie, one of value and not a consumable), the recipient has to sign for the watch using Army Form G1098 which has become known by the abbreviation "G10".

A regiment of 600 would have no more than 50 of the basic G10 watches on inventory and, depending on their role, possibly a chronograph or two and a couple of dive watches. Specialist units would have a different mix depending on their speciality.

My own experience is that most senior NCOs have watches on semi-permanent loan and private soldiers are rarely issued with one and then, only on an "as needed" basis.

As an accountable item, the loss of a watch would normally trigger a regimental inquiry and if negligence was proved, the offender would have to pay for it in addition to any disciplinary action which could be taken.

Eddie

You lot are a bit more strict.

When I was in, lost of something like a watch would be handled solely by the PLT Sgt or maybe the 1st SGT ("YOU lost it!? Crap, now I have to do paperwork, Damn it!") followed by filling out some paper work stating how much the item cost and the circumstances surrounding its lost. This paperwork would be carried down to the finance office where the offender would either pay cash (or check) in the amount of the item, or have it deducted from his pay. Then you would go back to supply to get another item, maybe.

The system has further streamlined. When I outprocessed at Fort Hood last autumn, I was missing a barracks bag. They had my clothing record on their automated system (no going to the S4 NCOIC to get a copy), on 2 Oct they already knew I'd been promoted on 1 Oct (hadn't even pinned on yet) and I was able to pay off my $7.46 with a credit card. Took about a half hour to clear CIF, vice the 2-3 days it used to take.

If it's personal issue it's a simple process. OTOH, if it's a Property Book item, it still takes months. 3, in my case :roll:

I've been thinking about how to justify SARs for my team (GSA price is $300 for the watch and $80 for the bracelet), ideas are appreciated.

[A.Pottinger]

Nalu, re.justifications for the stated watch:

'Got to keep pulse with the patient'
'It's all about time'
'Some like to know how long...'
'It's got to be good, so we can hand them back at the end of ops in reasonable form!' (ed.typo)
'It's got to have a bracelet, so we can wipe it clean, know what I mean?!'
I'd hate for some cheap watch to give out at a crucial moment, and 'before a patient...'

Best wishes and good luck with the requisition :D :)

AP :)

[rfrazier]

Pottinger is on to a good one. Tell them that your team members need a decent dive type watch with a steel bracelet because they need watches in general, and, as part of your continuing effort to reduce infection, you insist that they be capable of being sterilized. You've tried cheap ass watches (BPOS watches), and they die in the sterilizer. So, you need something robust and water tight, which won't be harmed by getting washed once a day in the sterilizer.

Best wishes,
Bob

[hogthrob]

This might be a bit of a digression, but JCJM, you mentioned the existence of 'real men.' Do you have a working definition of what constitutes a 'real man,' because I see this term bandied about quite frequently, but there's seemingly no real consensus as to what it means..?

Guys like construction workers, military men, bikers, police officers, Red Indians. Oh, hang on, that's the Village People :lol:

[JCJM]

This might be a bit of a digression, but JCJM, you mentioned the existence of 'real men.' Do you have a working definition of what constitutes a 'real man,' because I see this term bandied about quite frequently, but there's seemingly no real consensus as to what it means..?

Good question. Well... I guess there are many ways to describe same things but this is the best one I´ve come across:

"How can you describe how an orange tastes to someone who hasnt tasted it? - You cant right, so the only thing you can say is here, this is an orange; bite it and then youll know how it tastes like."

So, my point is that knowing a definition for something is different from understanding it, let alone acting it. - Certainly knowing the road is the first step but it is completely different to walk it and yet becoming one with it. I am not an expert on this subject and, as I dont have the pucket so to speak I am not able to pass it on either. I gather that in the end its very simple: you know the difference when you become one. There is no second guessing or iffing.

Though the subject is important (I believe manhood is on crisis) this is propably not the place to discuss the inner meanings of what it means to be a man. I also think that the first and last one to discuss it with should be the guy looking you in the mirror. Thats the first step as I´ve been taught.

Dunno if I answered the question but I hope you find it worth thinking about. There are many older, wiser and more experienced men on this forum to answer this question really so I´ll just shut up and hear what they say if they want to contribute.

Respectfully,