Reply With QuoteThere has been a general decline in manners and and a rise in unfortunate and really vile language which has been introduced along with some new members, who unfortunately do not grasp the spirit of the forum.
...but maybe not for WT?
Maybe its just me (or my approach) but has anybody else noticed a general tendancy to ignore pm's on sc and wtb?
Ive had perfectly decent offers ignored i.e at asking price or within a few % and the for Wtb resonses that Ive sent. What makes it more obvious are the generally decent guys who recognise that we all have limited time and sending a pm, email with photos etc at least deserves a reply. As I said maybe its just me and Im getting sensitive in my old age and Im expecting too much.
Cheers
Keith
There has been a general decline in manners and and a rise in unfortunate and really vile language which has been introduced along with some new members, who unfortunately do not grasp the spirit of the forum.
...but maybe not for WT?
Manners maketh the man :)
Personally I reply to each and every PM.... Watch related or otherwise..... Even if it's just to say "thanks for getting in touch, bit busy at the moment, will respond properly later" etc etc :D
Plus I quite enjoy the banter with the regular lo-ballers..... That's always good for a laugh :lol:
I think being new on here and being a youngster of 26 I have to earn the respect of those older than me, but with that said manners and respect work 2 ways.... But not saying that if you younger than me I won't show the same level of of manners and respect.
Originally Posted by huytonman
In total agreement with your thoughts. I've sent two PMs this week one with a view to buy, but asked if i could have hi res pictures. Sent another unrelated PM also.
Both were opened and ignored :(
The list of Foes in my profile is growing , as always what goes around comes around ( the list of friends is growing too though! :)
I enjoy TZ-UK for the community aspect, like having a bunch of watch nerd mates to chat to, compare watches with and ask/answer questions.
Then there are those who use Sales Corner. They don't spend enough time across the forum to even know they are being rude.
Just one to add to your list Keith. I don't need to use the forum software, I just remember.
I always reply, if only to say no thanks. It will sometimes take me a while to reply if I've opened the PM on my mobile, because replying on the mobile is annoying so I wait until I'm at a PC again.
The only time I can see that it's OK not to reply, is if you get a flood of PMs at once. The posting time delay limit can make replying to a lot at once very time consuming, and I've seen people post in sales threads to apologise for not being able to reply to all individually because of that. That's still good manners in my book.
Dave E
Skating away on the thin ice of a new day
Spot on about the decline in manners and vile language but not sure about you tying this to new members. Perhaps it depends on your definition of new but some of the poorer behaviour in these parts lately is certainly more likely to be seen from members of 2 or more years standing who perhaps think that counts as time served and giving them carte blanche to misbehave.
I make it a policy to reply to each and every PM and email. I may not respond on opening for the reasons given - time and convenience - plus I may want to think about it or prepare a response.
None of the above usually takes more than a day or two - and if it's going to take that long I'll send a holding note.
I do get irritated (but not annoyed, life's too short) when I take the time to prepare a response to an enquiry, perhaps a counter offer, and that is ignored.
I have lost track of the number of people I'd rather not deal with based on their manners, attitude and opinions expressed in and via the forum ;-)
Gray
I recently posted a watch on sc and received an insulting offer from a opportunist chancer - or 'lowball' if you want to wrap it up in cotton wool.
I never bothered replying as I thought it was either a joke or, if not, it was definately insulting.
I suppose double standards and hypocrisy exsist everywhere so TZ should be no different but I must say I was more than a little annoyed to then receive a pious pm from the aforementioned 'lowballer' giving me a crash course in manners and forum ettiquette.
Manners always matter and I detest bad manners. The problem is that bad manners make me want to respond with bad manners, which make another bad mannered person. My grandmother used to tell us off for bad manners telling us that "manners cost you nothing"
It's not just you. I always tend to approach people the same way i would like to be approached. But yes there has been a steady decline in the manner and behaviour online and offline in the last 5-10 years (at least from my experience working in a callcenter and other customer related jobs, untill i got enough of it).
Bad manners seem to be endemic nowadays. Just look at drivers on the roads who are pushy and aggressive to an extreme, or people who are walking around, or shoppers or..... I always reply to p.m. and e-mails it's just good manners to do so.
Try not taking it personally...... I love the lo-ballers as it gives me every opportunity to respond with fly off the cuff remarks... And then the banter begins.... I have a right laugh, usually at their expense.... :D :D
A few examples
Will you accept an offer of xxx, I saw one on here last week that went for that, so it must be the going rate....
ME... Should have bought that one the eh :)
What's your best price??
ME... Best price for me is xxx (usually 10 times what I'm asking) :D
I've got a limited budget, can you adjust down to meet it?.
ME... I've got a fixed price, can you adjust your budget up to match it
Will you take xxx??
ME... Well that's a reasonable deposit, but I won't be able to releasecthe watch until you come up with the balance :D
I would buy yours, but it's not really what I'm looking for, so will you take xxx
ME.... I suggest you keep looking for what you're after :twisted:
The list goes on.... Hours of endless fun :)
Treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
An old adage but one I try and live by. Unfortunately a minority here seemingly don't share the same moral compass but that's when another expression comes into play.
What goes around comes around :wink:
Cheers,
Gary
I might not have expressed myself to clearly. Some bad behaviour indeed also comes form a few members with two or more years of membership.Spot on about the decline in manners and vile language but not sure about you tying this to new members. Perhaps it depends on your definition of new but some of the poorer behaviour in these parts lately is certainly more likely to be seen from members of 2 or more years standing who perhaps think that counts as time served and giving them carte blanche to misbehave.
....or when someone flakes from a deal :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Just yanking your chain, I assure you :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I count myself as both "still new around here" and "well-mannered", and I'd like to think I've not caused anyone any upset like this. The few purchases I've made (3 watches, 2 cape cod sachet's) hardly make me a big player, but I've always tried to carry myself with regard for others I've dealt with on the buying/selling front.
I've made some offers on For Sale items, always fair, always well-mannered, often when the item wasn't quite what I was after but asking if there could be movement on price without a certain strap or other. Likewise I've been offered watches in reply to Wanted posts which weren't quite right for me (for whatever reason), but I've always found correspondence to be friendly, fair and reasonable when an offer was declined either way.
There's no call for foul language here, but I do appreciate that people are busy, that circumstances may change, and hence a little patience and the occasional give-and-take is to be expected.
I like to think of it as the law of Karma. :wink: Those who harbour vile thoughts will suffer from vile deeds.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Well the forum attracts all sorts but here are some mails I received only today from never members.
hi!
having lotsa problems, hope u can help
when i try to register i click on accept conditions but nothing happens
happens in opera and inet explorere
hope u can help as i have a bunch of stuff to buy and sell
cheers!and this one who I told he couldn't join just to sell and suggested he try eBay instead.Hy Eddie,
yes, i never made a post, but i'm registered for do this, and put my watches for sale,
but i not understand how i have to do for that,
Best regards
EddeThanks, but I don't like eBay - too many scammers and too many fees.
Paypal too.
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I agree with Snowdon. Deal with people in the same manner as you would if meeting face to face.
Seen a lot of snide comments here which I cant help thinking are from 'little ' people hiding behind a keyboard, wouldn't dare talk or treat people like that in person cos they know they'd get a good shaking. :blackeye:
But suppose that the 'fun' and nature of a forum, we're all equal.
Even though I'm guessing some of the big posters would heartily disagree!
With respect to you it was an offer. Unless it was couched in offensive terms? If not it was just an offer. People offer things for sale all of the time. Buyers make offers. There is often a huge difference between what the seller thinks something is worth and what they buyer thinks it is worth. A polite "no thanks" costs nothing.
As to "lowball" I watched as a really nice piece was reduced by about 30% over 2 weeks or so on SC recently. So would an offer on day one at 70% of the asking price at that time have been "lowball"?
I don`t do much buying/selling thesedays, but I do expect good manners from buyers/sellers and I try to behave the same way myself. Low-ball offers can become an insult at times, and failure to communicate and respond to PMs is disappointing. I don`t mind a robust negotiation and a bit of haggling provided civility is maintained.
I also think standards have fallen around here over the last 12 months, with lots of mindless spats and arguments from various keyboard warriors.
Paul
As a new member i would like to say how extreamley welcome i have been made to feel by all here. I have recieved patience & courtesy regarding my requests for help & advice in my posts & found the information supplied both useful & insightful. In regards to Pm's i have always found my dealings with the members here to be exemplary both in terms of quick response & good manners in fact in these days of curt short response emails devoid of any warmth or personality i find my communication here refreshingly human. With my transaction in SC the advice to buy the seller has never been easier with everyone i have dealt with going the extra mile to make each deal as smooth & confidence inspiring as possible. I don't know if i have just been lucky & i'm sure there will be some exceptions to this over time but i have to say that on the whole i am very happy i joined. As for those with bad manners, there will always be a small percentage in every situation all we can do is to lead by example by having a good attitude & sense of humour & hopefully they will come around.
"Manners maketh the man" as my nan used to say. And she was right!
The lo-ball issue is a funny one really.....I'm surprised so many feel that a low offer is an insult, and take it so personally :(
I just take it that at least someone has looked at my advert and bothered to get in touch :)
I genuinely couldn't care less, even if I had a £1 offer on a £1k watch :D... The PM'er would still get a polite response.... They might not like the content, but it would be polite 8)
This thread has got me a bit worried!
I like to think that I am polite, but I am not certain that I have replied to every PM in the past.
So, just in case, you've sent me a PM and I've not replied, please accept my sincere apologies and assurances that it will not happen again.
Regards
Dougie
Spot on, I have never not replied to somebody as soon as I am aware of a message. Its the basics.
Ive been selling in a cut throat industry for 25 years, Im hardened to buyer seller/behaviour BUT view Eddies generosity as a sort of sacturary from "the day job" and thats probably the root of my dissappointment; I expect and hope for more from fellow enthusiasts but lifes too short and Il sleep well knowing that I do the right thing as often as I can.
I loved Eddies examples though - makes me realise that Ive been lucky! :D
I try to (not to say I do) always reply to every pm I receive, even to the ones that have been deleted by the sender :mrgreen:
despite being quite new, I quite like the spirit of this forum so far :lol:
For what it's worth, I've only been here a short time, but I've flipped a few watches in that period, and everyone I've dealt with has been a gent.
On my very first sale on SC, a couple of hours after agreeing terms, my intended buyer intimated that circumstances had changed - hard to explain without going into detail, but it was a fair reason - and he didn't really want the watch anymore, but that he wouldn't pull out of the deal as he was good to his word, and requested payment details. I didn't want someone to buy my watch without being happy about the deal and so I told him that there was no problem if he wanted to call it off. I put the watch back up and sold it within a couple of days, losing just a few quid in the process when I dropped the price.
I think my point is that the intended buyer showed that he was prepared to be good for his word despite unpredictable circumstances changing his mind. It was precisely because he was so well mannered about it that I had no problem with him backing out. If it was someone who was actually taking the p*** then that would be a different matter. I wouldn't hesitate to deal with the aforementioned chap again, as - getting to the point of this thread - he showed good manners about it and by not holding him to the terms then I hope I showed good manners back. That's how it should be to me, and I'm lucky in respect that everyone I've dealt with on here to date seems to hold similarly good values.
Wow Jesper, the reference for this has been set by some old time “good folk“ internet characters :!:
In real life these characters would have been invited to step outside so as to enjoy some time off with charming medical personel checking tubes in orifices whilst thinking over the sense in good manners :albino:
+ 1 on that. Manners matter. As a relative newbie my experience with the PM method of communication has only so far been positive. Everyone i have dealt with has been polite, every PM replied to (and i hope people would say the same in reply about me).
Theres definately been some ugly spats on here recently but thats certainly only a small number of threads. The majority seem to maintain the the TZ subtitle of "a friendly place to discuss watches etc.". Good mannered, humorous banter, interesting topics and healthy discussion.
As to what good manners are: A good start (as has been said earlier) is to treat others as you would wish to be treated.
Andy
Absolutely agreed.
I sent a reply to recent WTB that was opened & ignored.
A simple "thanks but no thanks" would've sufficed.
No class some people. :roll:
Elephants never..........
In the last 48 hours I've had 2-3 "lowballs" on SC, even a couple with accompanying stories as to why I need to sell to them at the price they have offered from "because I'm a student.." to "...well I had to drop my price on SC so therefore it's FAIR that you drop your price..." I appreciate the candid/honest student story but as to the other chap telling me what's FAIR....I just don't get it. Make an offer yes...but don't try too hard to justify it. An offer is an offer.....if you have to justify it, it's TOO LOW :D
Should SC be renamed "TeeBay" :shock:
:D WM :D
I think i got the last watch i bought of Sales corner by being polite in my Pm's... the seller said he was sick of lowballers and stupid questions.
Sometimes it pays to be polite. 8)
Care less, it's better for the hearth. :)
It's internet.
Well I've been here for five minutes (having perused from afar for about 6months), and think it's a shame people feel the standard has "degraded", because whatever it was, now all I know is what I've seen.
which is basically the same as every forum on tinternet, where there are some people who use it religiously (and on here many have encyclopaedic knowledge of many wonderful things which is extremely helpful), people who use it occasionally, and an awful lot of people who have "just joined".
for every example of good behaviour (freebies on SC for instance) there are the same of poor (there's one watch on SC that was acknowledged as having been sold for a grand, it came back up for trade a week later at £1100, and is now back on in the same condition as bought (or traded I think), with a new trade value of £1200! although the two later traders have only been here half an hour too...)
The bottom line is, some people join a forum and have expectations because of how they have been introduced to it (so may have half a clue what the "spirit"is like), and they might want to try and fit in.
and some don't.
Hah, Petrus. It would have to get worse for me to wish for the Inquisition to pay someone a visit :lol:Wow Jesper, the reference for this has been set by some old time “good folk“ internet characters :!:
In real life these characters would have been invited to step outside so as to enjoy some time off with charming medical personel checking tubes in orifices whilst thinking over the sense in good manners :albino:
I find the recent spewings (for example within the last couple of days or so) a bit funny and sad.
It would be even more funny, if it was not also tragic. I can only shake my head at people, who will act the brave keyboard ninja, but would never dare utter the same puerile insults in a dark alley face to face.The spewing of futile insults by either immature and/or sad old flabby men is just sad, tut-tut.
But as we have spoken of before, Petrus; in another era, it would have been rapiers behind the cathedral :P
But that would of course have to include a sense of honor, which per definition these sad keyboard ninjas are missing :mrgreen:
No, it's not you. It's basic good manners. It takes literally seconds to reply to a PM saying 'it's already sold' or 'no thanks' to an offer. It seems incredible to me that people don't respond to messages regarding WTBs; those people could have saved you a lot of time/effort/money-the least you can do is reply.
Having not been here too long I haven't come across anyone being rude.
Everyone I've dealt with has been polite and most helpfull. All PM's replied to (haven't sent that many).
I like it here...
Ali
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