Reply With QuoteI know. I don't agree with the fake goods thing but legally you are right and doesn't matter if I agree or not...Originally Posted by NJH
...but..
...all fake, these guys!!
...sorry, I couldn't resist! :wink: :D
The crown design is still trade marked.Prove what? The point is that MM is protected as a trademark. Thus using it puts one in the domain of fake goods, not good.
The patent on the crown expired a very long time ago, here is the original filing from paneristi, check out the filing date (1956)
http://www.paneristi.com/archives/patent/index.html
I know. I don't agree with the fake goods thing but legally you are right and doesn't matter if I agree or not...
...but..
...all fake, these guys!!
...sorry, I couldn't resist! :wink: :D
Quite right, funny though how flimsy that trademark is when one looks at it. It doesn't stop ppl from continually repeating the same myth that the crown lock lever invention is protected as a 50+ year old patent is long gone.The crown design is still trade marked.Prove what? The point is that MM is protected as a trademark. Thus using it puts one in the domain of fake goods, not good.
The patent on the crown expired a very long time ago, here is the original filing from paneristi, check out the filing date (1956)
http://www.paneristi.com/archives/patent/index.html
A deeper question though is if someone was to come up with a similar watch but without the MM on the dial and a different novel way or shape of integrating the crown lock with the case would ppl buy it? As an example look at the many interesting watches to have come out of Anomino, their crown lock mechanism on the Militare for example is a very neat take on the question, you could say that watch answers my question perfectly. However compared to Panerai they just don't have the monetary value amongst WIS. Real shame. Call me a cynic but at the end of the day its simply a case that a lot of ppl feel more comfortable ripping off the designs of others rather than coming up with their own (or buying something original). In that case I don't have a lot of sympathy for such companies being ripped into by Panerai.
I know, its crazy but it got accepted. Orfina have also used Royal Navy I believe on some of their watches despite the fact they have no connection AFAIK to the RN and regardless in this country you need some pretty special dispensations to use the word Royal in connection with any company.I know. I don't agree with the fake goods thing but legally you are right and doesn't matter if I agree or not...
...but..
...all fake, these guys!!
...sorry, I couldn't resist! :wink: :D
Maybe you don't understand how trademarks work? :?I know. I don't agree with the fake goods thing but legally you are right and doesn't matter if I agree or not...
...but..
...all fake, these guys!!
...sorry, I couldn't resist! :wink: :D
Just because a term is trademarked doesn't mean it can't be used for anything. The term "Marina Militare" is protected, but only when used in certain ways
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-find-number?det ... rk=M850768
You'll see in "lists of goods or services" the ways that the trademark is protected - "Cuff links, tie pins, rings, bracelets, earrings, necklaces, brooches; watches, chronometers, clocks, watchbands, wristwatches, boxes of precious metal for watches and jewelry".
So while it's clear you can't put "Marina Militare" on the dial of a watch without Panerai's permission, the good news is that if you want to call your house (or your navy) "Marina Militare" there is nothing Panerai can do to stop you. :wink:
[/quote][/quote][/quote]
I do and thanks for the linky! Marina is also a women's name overhear so thank the gods for that. Imagine a platoon of Panerai lawyers lined up in maternity ward: "You had a baby girl? Congrats! Oh, you named her Marina did you? Well, sign this Cease and Desist form and pay up. Oh, and congratulations again!" :mrgreen:
Or an Angelus SF240 (8 day) - it will fit perfectly :DJust have your own case made. You could choose duralmin than, even a magnesium alloy. It will be a Jesper 01/01.
You know where to get a Cortebert with micro regulation for it.
ANdy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Armchair lawyers.... bless em :roll:
Just added a RXW Plasmir Milgraph as well, talk about dogs Cahones !! or will I get sued for saying that ?
yes MM that is a beautiful homage! would love to see one in the flesh - that and the rwc 1954 are my favourites!
Why don't they call it a 'Morris Marina' a fine piece of quality engineering (not).
Ab
You could not be more wrong IMO - however, please enlighten us all.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
You have obviously been on the 'Cock' course , now see the rules below !
It is VERY serious this nutty thing.
Facebook has been granted copyright on the word ´face´.....!!!
Under the US homeland security acts !!!! the DHS only needs a complaint to shut down an entire internet site ´pending investigation´.
This is no scare. Please look into it before replying that.
See http://torrent-finder.com/
for what has appeared on homesteading food sites wihout ANY notoce or explanation, leaving the owners bewildered.
Under present anti terrorism legislation there's no limit to what websites the U.S. government could choose to seize and shut down. This is the beginning of the federal takeover of the internet, where all websites that don't fall in line with "official" government-approved information are now potential targets of DHS seizures.
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/030542_censo ... z16qadFNVh
For clarity my comment was not meant as a slight against the watch, just the name trademark debacle. For what it's worth I have both a pam 111 my favourite watch and dare I admit it a Morris Marina which when I had it was a complete bag of bones.
Ab
Does he still trade or have a website? The one I've come across dead ends
So I can no longer say "I'll hit you in the face!"? I think no one will take me seriously if I yell "Oi, get back or I'll punch you in the visage" :mrgreen:
Money is making everyone insane...
From my youth (obviously) the phrase 'punching your lights out' seemed to work :wink:So I can no longer say "I'll hit you in the face!"? I think no one will take me seriously if I yell "Oi, get back or I'll punch you in the visage" :mrgreen:
Money is making everyone insane...
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Oh, yeah, that'll do! Or I'll just say it in my native language "Fodo-te já os cornos, ó filho da puta" (too rude to translate) :mrgreen:
.
.
Morris Marina? I had a Morris Ital
I've got a Pam 111 too 8) 8) 8)
.
.
______
Jim.
Morris Marina TC :) oh how I miss her 8)
Beige/beige interior (brown vinyl roof - obviously) :lol:
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Naughty! :D
But very 'gentlemanly' :wink:Naughty! :D
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Beige/beige interior (brown vinyl roof - obviously) :lol:
Not as good as my Austin Maxi , back seat down and into a double bed ! Love that Hydro Elastic suspension :D
:lol:Not as good as my Austin Maxi , back seat down and into a double bed ! Love that Hydro Elastic suspension :DBeige/beige interior (brown vinyl roof - obviously) :lol:
Worst car ever to drive - but I assume we are not discussing driving :wink:
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Marina estate ,1.8tc, auto. Now theres a thing I owned years ago. Roomy :D
1.7 hls White with chocolate brown vinyl roof. Even worse my dad had a Austin maxi which he traded for a 1.5 van den plas (posh allegro). British motoring at it's best! Ironically the ital was an Italian styling job. So they don't get it right always
Ab
Looks like the 20 is off to the Bay then :D
Very simply, a patent protects function, a design registration protects appearance, copyright protects artistic expression and a trade mark is used to indicate origin and therefore protect reputation. A patent can last for up to 20 years, a design registration can last for 25, copyright lasts for a period beyond the death of the author and a trade mark registration can last forever.
In the present case, Panerai have presumably registered Marina Militaire and the shape of the crown guard as trade marks. In other words they have registered these marks to protect their reputation. If a watch is produced with either the words Marina Militaire or a crown guard having the registered shape, then the trade mark will have been infringed and this is how Panerai can put a stop to the activity.
What he said !
Which means you cannot put in on ebay :!:
Not sure which "he" you meant! Just trying to be helpful and clarify the position as there were quite a few in accurate posts. Always happy to help with this sort of thing: I know quite a lot about it. :)
What he said !
Mmmm are you telling me or advising me ? Either way I will decide ! My watch my risk my decision and I won't take any heed from your diatribe :evil: as it happens I will be keeping it, wore it for the last two days and tbh there's not much to touch it for the money, if it.s being faked someone out there must realise it's a current rare classic.
Which means you cannot put in on ebay :!:
Now where do I get an MM25??
I must admit I very much enjoy my MM20--almost as much as the LEprs-20 from Eddie. I think Eddie's finished product is of higher quality--but that's not really what drives the MM20 debate to relavancy IMO. The fact is that Panerai, it appears (and yes, if anyone wants to call me a cry baby--as I've repeated my opinions in other forums) will no longer make a Luminor cased 47mm watch for under $50K or so--and only in extremely limited numbers. If you want a Panerai like this one; the only close option is the $25K or so 127 (which is quite a different watch) or to have one custom built (leave it up to the owner if he wants the MM markings etc.). The thing about this MM20 is that it actually feels more like Old School Panerai watches as far as handling it: it's a rough watch--it winds rough, it feels rough, it's heavy (real heavy), it has screws that you can strip if you want to when changing straps and just replace them--or throw in spring loaded ones..and so on. I feel I can be pretty much myself when I wear it. The 127 is more like your dream girl--it's absolutely gorgeous, but refined. These Panerais are finicky and one feels like you've got to have the fingers of picasso or something when setting the time etc..My 233, with the zeroing seconds, am/pm, gmt, and 255 turns to fully wind is like sitting at the opera wating for the show to start. IMO, the 127 Is not a watch you can ever wear while doing anything a real man would do (yeah, even in bed LOL). The shame is Panerai could release an "affordable" base MM for about $10K, but they won't.
In case you care, here's the 127 (which is much lighter than the mm20):
My LEprs-20 and the RXW mm25 (very dissapointed with the lume--but a pretty nice watch)--prefer Eddie's rendition however.
Wrist shot of my MM20 (not a good pic, 'cause I took it):
Very much just like the old 6152 (I think) Panerai model of the 50's.
BTW, there's lots of fakes of the MM20--very ironic.
So you know that the watch is an infringement and that yoú will be selling it.
No need to get offended.
You can do as you please.
Jeez get a life !!
So you know that the watch is an infringement and that yoú will be selling it.
No need to get offended.
You can do as you please.
I think the RXW is a lovely watch, I would love to own one and I would certainly buy one were it available, don't know about the copyright issue - just how safe and law-abiding do we need to be all our lives?
Cheers,
Andy
That depends on the norms and values you think should be upheld and your personal integrity.
How do yoú want to be treated?
:lol: :lol: :lol: .....it,s a WATCH !!!! Not a stick of dynamite tied to a puppies tail !!That depends on the norms and values you think should be upheld and your personal integrity.
How do yoú want to be treated?
Your not coming across well here :wink:
:lol: :lol: :lol: .....it,s a WATCH !!!! Not a stick of dynamite tied to a puppies tail !!That depends on the norms and values you think should be upheld and your personal integrity.
How do yoú want to be treated?
Your not coming across well here :wink:
He rarely does :)
Madness!
We all know there are low life dung eaters on the flea bay who have ripping off ordinary folk for years, and doing far worse than mere copyright stuff. They make anyone (generally) here look like Mary Poppins compared to their evil selling schemes and lies.
I think keeping it is a great idea, I'd love one :)
A cult watch the MM20 and was much sought after - probably more so now, what I liked was that it seemed you were getting a 'quality' (relative) product, the whole package was excellent, especially the boxes and at that time (2004ish) the endless supply of cheap MMs were not available and if they were they were cheap and very nasty. I bought the MM20 and the MM10 as a job lot quite a few years back for about 900 quid.
A blast from the past. Excellent watch.
A
A cult watch the MM20 and was much sought after - probably more so now, what I liked was that it seemed you were getting a 'quality' (relative) product, the whole package was excellent, especially the boxes and at that time (2004ish) the endless supply of cheap MMs were not available and if they were they were cheap and very nasty. I bought the MM20 and the MM10 as a job lot quite a few years back for about 900 quid.
A blast from the past. Excellent watch.
With the help of Google, I've seen that replica watch maker "Davidsen" now offers A replica of the mm20. So now we have a replica of a nice homage.
A
Shame - nice watch - this is what I found off the Internet. How much were they going for?
""The "real" RXW (made by RockXwatch in Japan) has been discontinued years ago after a Japanese court decision that the watch is a fake Panerai.
The RXW watches usually seen on ebay (until recently) are actualy fakes of the Japanese RXW. Aparently Panerai successfully sued against these sellers in late 2008 as they disappeared within days from ebay.""
Hence, if any on sale, they would be a fake of the fake :lol: :lol: Nice one thou
One thing I've been puzzled by is, how is a watch "illegal", when it was purchased legally? i.e., the RXW watches were sold, then they were told to stop production. So K.Sato stopped making them. I would think the watches made before the ruling would be fine--plus this, AFAIK, was solely a Japanese court decision. I remember Jeep sued Hummer for the grille design; I think they lost that battle, but had they prevailed I doubt that meant Hummers already on the market would be considered illegal vehicles in any way.
""The "real" RXW (made by RockXwatch in Japan) has been discontinued years ago after a Japanese court decision that the watch is a fake Panerai.
The RXW watches usually seen on ebay (until recently) are actualy fakes of the Japanese RXW. Aparently Panerai successfully sued against these sellers in late 2008 as they disappeared within days from ebay.""
Hence, if any on sale, they would be a fake of the fake :lol: :lol: Nice one thou[/quote]
No - You can still buy a genuine RXW MM 20 - I think the only thing different is the movement (still swiss made but different from the original) But you just to know where to look.
Dievas Watch Co. do a nice model Vintage 3646 Sapphire.Well worth a look !!
No - You can still buy a genuine RXW MM 20 - I think the only thing different is the movement (still swiss made but different from the original) But you just to know where to look.[/quote]
Where do we look? pm me :wink:
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