Reply With QuoteIndeed - he clearly has enough independent thought/lucid times to set up a new company with it's own website etc.Originally Posted by burnside
Blue collar crime in my book.
I agree with the aversion to tackle anyone who plays the race/mental health issue card see it all the time in my job but i find it astonishing that if he has such issues/problems how is he measured and calm enough to set up a new Company doing the same old thing.
If you've been ill and are back on form etc, you mail all your customers and say this is what the score was and is now, huge apologies etc, beg for business, sort out work you have not done yet and go from there. You do not open a New Company up in the hope that no-one knows its you or has heard of you and hope all your old customers who in some cases not only had a bad job done on their watch but have not even recieved their watch back yet will forget about it.
I also find it astonishing that the Police and Trading Standards have not investigated him and shut him down.
If he's genuinely sick then get signed off by the Doctor and get help, simple as that.
Regards to all Ben
Ps Good luck to those who's watches are MAG, MAD (Missing at Geoffs or Duro)
Indeed - he clearly has enough independent thought/lucid times to set up a new company with it's own website etc.
Blue collar crime in my book.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
For those who still have watches with Geoff Dedman, he emailed me recently to say:
Good luck.You can now usually reach me on 01908 725026 between 10am & 5pm Tues - Sat
It could be fun trying to reach him on that number next Tuesday :!:
Just a hint of similarity?
http://durowatchco.com/main/
http://thewatchsmithy.com/en/
Said before, I don't know the guy, but looks extremely well planned and executed to me.
B**locks and I've altered the statement below:
You can now usually reach me on 01908 725026 between 4.55pm & 5.00pm Tues - Sat, but then again maybe you won't
Health issues my a**e. :evil:
F.T.F.A.
You want to get that looked at before it starts weeping.
sorry but if he is well enough to start up again he,s nothing more then a thief in my eyes
Indeed - he clearly has enough independent thought/lucid times to set up a new company with it's own website etc.
Blue collar crime in my book.
I think you mean white collar crime?
I think you mean white collar crime?Indeed - he clearly has enough independent thought/lucid times to set up a new company with it's own website etc.
Blue collar crime in my book.
White collar suggests a higher social class, which I do not see in this case :)
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
[quote=Chris_in_the_UK]I think you mean white collar crime?Indeed - he clearly has enough independent thought/lucid times to set up a new company with it's own website etc.
Blue collar crime in my book.
White collar suggests a higher social class, which I do not see in this case :)[/quote:1v6lipcb]
Fair enough :lol:
It's a bit off bringing jibes about the public sector into this. There's far too much bull on that subject from the misinformed about anyway without adding to it. Unless I'm much mistaken this man is allegedly ill and has a number of watches in his possession that belong to members of this forum - very much a making of the private sector. Speaking as a manager in the public sector the last thing anyone's going to get is a pot of gold. Sorry to bite but seemed unnecessary.
The first I'd seen of mental health problems amongst otherwise functioning managers and IT people was in the NHS, signed off on full pay indefinitely, and it played havoc with budgets - illusory though they were as the DH just gave us a blank cheque at the end of every period anyway. All you needed to do was show you were on the sick with a doctor's chitty for an antidepressant and that was that. One guy was gone for over three months - I remember being scolded for ringing him one day to ask if he had an idea of a possible return date so I could plan properly (he reported my request to my seniors).
One chap I worked with later at a private firm suffered depression and got counselled out not long after his bosses found out (maybe not a bad idea if the job is a contributing factor)
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Not suggesting you're wrong. My point, probably badly made, was why make points about how the public sector deals with sickness in a topic that has nothing to do with it. Anyway I'm in danger of hijacking the topic now so I'll shut up.
I spoke to the Thames Valley Police when I was getting no response from Geoff last year - they said that if he continued to neither respond nor return the watch, they'd investigate as a possible fraud. If anyone is in that position now, it might be worth either contacting the police or advising him that you will if he doesn't return your property....
I'm sick of Geoff Dedman and of writing about Geoff Dedman. Not least because he's soured my trust in artisans like him. My mind 's now on the IWC that I have to send to Richemont for repair, hoping that he hasn't damaged it more than I can see from the outside.
However, in fairness to him, although there's no reason for me to be fair, here's a quote from his last email to me. Take it as you want. You may well need some salt.
Duro Watch Co is a small family owned watchmaking business that have been helping me out. They allow me use of their facilities when well enough and have been helping me in getting through the remaining few watches I still have that need to return to the customers. In return, when able, I have been helping them with some design and systems technical help and long term hope to help them with some work, mainly on dial restorations.
God help them (they will need it).
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
The site seems permanently down and I neglected to write down the Duro Watch Co. phone number :evil: (I'm still trying to get back an Omega foolishly entrusted to Tufftime in September 2009). Does anyone have it?
The old 'Watchsmithy" website had a statement along the lines of the business being closed due to illness.
When attempting to visit the old site now, the following message appears:
"This account has been suspended for non-payment"
Looks like the company cheque book is also having a few days off.
01908 725026
Hi
Amazingly after almost a year without any replies and the sinking feeling that I would never see my Breitling Navitimer Dial again . . .
No there was no contact from Geoff who apparently now has psychiatric problems (nervous breakdown ?) but I did make contact with the really nice guy who has also been shafted by Geoff and has a lot of his pieces in his workshop (left behind when Geoff stopped coming into the workshop and stopped paying any rent)
There are lots of boxes with watch parts, dials and completely disassembled pieces ? ? ?
It is of course not known which of these are TZUK pieces and a lot have little or no paperwork with them.
I had to visit the workshop in MK (a quick 200 mile trip) but amazingly there was my dial in a little box with no paperwork at all (had to check quite a few other boxes first but I was lucky not to have to go through them all.)
This nice guy would like to help others on TZUK to get their watches/dials back but is somewhat worried about being overrun by irate owners so we have to get some way to go forward.
He suggests he will work with one person at a time directly and will need full documentary evidence - Receipts, Photos, eMails etc. - before releasing anything. There may be some paperwork with some pieces but this will have the real name of the owner not the TZUK Handle so he can't contact people on here first and also he has his own work to be going on with rather than spending all his time sorting out Geoff's mess ! ! !
Maybe there is a member in the MK area that can help organize things ? ? ?
He would rather deal with just one Representative of TZUK and one watch at a time.
Let me know what you all think . . .
Cheers
Pete
Good work Pete 8)
I bet there will be alot of happy people now that they can see light at the end of the tunnel.
Hope it all works out well for everyone
Wow - Geoff had three of mine, I really had not expected to see them again!!
Just thought i'd add that whilst Pete hasn't posted much, I know him very well, top bloke!
Sanj :)
And just to really complicate matters, Dedman returned watches to some of his customers apparently complete, but actually with parts of the movements missing.There are lots of boxes with watch parts, dials and completely disassembled pieces ? ? ?
It is of course not known which of these are TZUK pieces and a lot have little or no paperwork with them.
So, for example, he returned to me an unrepaired JLC, minus the going train and bridge.
Many thanks, Pete! Finally some hope :)
Hi
What would be really good would be someone in the MK area or nearby to coordinate things - I am too far away but can do some liaison work of course.
The chap with all the parts has no time to go hunting through things and would prefer it if one representative person came in on a case by case basis and did the looking, bringing with them each time all the relevant available proofs, pictures, emails etc.
Pete
My attention has just been drawn to this post. I currently have a members IWC on my bench, it having been in the hands of this guy. It came in partly dissassembled, with broken & missing parts. Closer inspection showed it to have been ham fistedly stripped and a poor attempt at assembly totally failed. One of the stems was broken in two places, some train parts missing, and the electronics damaged. Restoration is well under way. I cannot begin to understand what this guy was thinking when he set about trying to repair watches. If any of you do manage to recover any parts, post pics on here of what is returned. I'm sure that myself and the other pro's on here will help with identifying what you have and how to best proceed with recovering the situation.
I wouldn't normally comment on a sensitive thread like this, but if the guy lost his wife? and is now suffering mental health issues, which can happen to any one of us, cut him some slack perhaps, despite the frustrations and losses.
It's easy to be perfect in judgement when not all the facts are known!
I have been scathing myself previously and suffered much frustration (though no loss) at Geoffs hands, but if they guy is genuinely ill, he has more pressing matters to deal with than anyone's watch.
Was he ever skilled? if so did these skills vanish at his point of loss? Does the current mess pre-date the loss? He appears to have been well enough to restart and carry on his work doing precisley the same thing. Look at http://www.ripoffreport.com/clock-repai ... -roc-e33ac. Why has he not sued ? this goes back years. Has anyone assessed the losses accrued by watch owners. It must run to thousands of pounds. Any personal loss or health issues are regrettable and deserve sympathy but if in business you must have some thought for customers when things go wrong and take action to mitigate loss. All the available evidence suggests a person working well out of their depth and ability who has being doing so for some time now. My sympathies are with the owner of a virtually ruined £3k watch ,not a self deluding botcher.
I so hope you are never afflicted by mental health issues. Rational and common sense either simply evaporate or become completely unimportant without you even knowing it. My ex was so afflicted and did bizarre things without knowing it.
Like i said, if you're a perfect, without fault individual, you're in a tiny minority. I suggest your view is blinkered but i have no need or desire to debate the matter. I know what i do from first-hand experience. If his wife suffered from ill health he would have been at the very least distracted, if as I think i read she subsequently died, his focus will have totally shifted. If he then descended into mental ill health because of these events, then your view is not only harsh it is unjust, but you're entitled to your opinion.
If you know facts, share them, if you don't you're just spouting your ill-informed opinion in ignorance of them.
Just for the sake of clarity, Geoff's wife has not died, although she does suffer from ill health.
Dave E
Skating away on the thin ice of a new day
I think the problem with Geoff was that he was continually making promises to large numbers of people to do work that was beyond his capacity and/or skills and advertising for and accepting new work when he didn't have the ability to finish what he already had outstanding. Whatever the medical mitigation, that was essentially the problem - that he was obtaining and retaining other people's property by making misrepresentations, which he MUST have known to be untrue/unrealistic. According to the police, that's tantamount to fraud.
I gave Geoff a watch to relume as part of a deal where I bought one of his, based on his promise to have my watch back to me within 5 days. After 3 weeks all that I'd received was a string of broken promises and unlikely excuses, and so I applied some pressure and gave him an ultimatum to return the watch or get a visit from the police, to whom I'd spoken about this. It cost me a fortune in shipping, but got the watch back, relumed, a few days later.
My Fortis LE Chrono, relumed by Geoff, glows better than my Seiko SBCM023; I have no doubt of his skills as a lume specialist. Unfortunately, from what I've heard here, his ability to deal competently with mechanical/repair works appears much more questionable. And it's hard to relume hands and dial without taking the watch apart. Even if he and his wife were restored to full health, and I hope that they may be, I doubt that his mechanical skills would improve overnight. Sympathy for health issues will not change that.
Shadowman, back up a bit buddy. geoff was given so much slack by members of this forum it was untrue. Everyone who had business with Geoff understood and sympathised with his siuation when the eventually found out what issues he had. Yes, his Mrs suffers from ill health and this may have lead towards his possible mental condition. The fact still remains that, even though this issues were present, he still found time to accept work even though he had not cleared his backlog.
His communications were, at best, rare and inconclusive and many customers were without their watches for a year or (much) more with no idea when or if they would be returned. When people started complaining about his company he shut the website down and started another before taking in more work even though he had not cleared the backlog from the last.
It soon became apparent that history was repeating itself when the same thing happened with this company; taking in work, nothing being completed and no communications. Rather than realising the situation had become untenable, he just closed the website and started another.
When one or two members had had enough, a couple of threads were started on H&V which brought out many more people who thought they were the only ones who were no satisfied with Geoff's service.
With the best will in the world, there is only so much people can take. Mental illness, family circumstances, whatever, he has our sympathies but he also had our watches. Some very rare, expensive and meaningful pieces were sent to Geoff who did not carry out the work and did not return the watches. This has been explored quite a bit on the forums. I'm sure you'll agree that this thread is now helping people out and I for one hope everything works out well for both the members who have their watches returned and Geoff who we hope makes a full recovery.
Now I know why my vintage Ogival does not work after the hands were relumed by GD at least I got it back after nigh a year on the missing list :evil:
well said that manShadowman, back up a bit buddy. geoff was given so much slack by members of this forum it was untrue. Everyone who had business with Geoff understood and sympathised with his siuation when the eventually found out what issues he had. Yes, his Mrs suffers from ill health and this may have lead towards his possible mental condition. The fact still remains that, even though this issues were present, he still found time to accept work even though he had not cleared his backlog.
His communications were, at best, rare and inconclusive and many customers were without their watches for a year or (much) more with no idea when or if they would be returned. When people started complaining about his company he shut the website down and started another before taking in more work even though he had not cleared the backlog from the last.
It soon became apparent that history was repeating itself when the same thing happened with this company; taking in work, nothing being completed and no communications. Rather than realising the situation had become untenable, he just closed the website and started another.
When one or two members had had enough, a couple of threads were started on H&V which brought out many more people who thought they were the only ones who were no satisfied with Geoff's service.
With the best will in the world, there is only so much people can take. Mental illness, family circumstances, whatever, he has our sympathies but he also had our watches. Some very rare, expensive and meaningful pieces were sent to Geoff who did not carry out the work and did not return the watches. This has been explored quite a bit on the forums. I'm sure you'll agree that this thread is now helping people out and I for one hope everything works out well for both the members who have their watches returned and Geoff who we hope makes a full recovery.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Shadowman, back up a bit buddy. geoff was given so much slack by members of this forum it was untrue. Everyone who had business with Geoff understood and sympathised with his siuation when the eventually found out what issues he had. Yes, his Mrs suffers from ill health and this may have lead towards his possible mental condition. The fact still remains that, even though this issues were present, he still found time to accept work even though he had not cleared his backlog.
His communications were, at best, rare and inconclusive and many customers were without their watches for a year or (much) more with no idea when or if they would be returned. When people started complaining about his company he shut the website down and started another before taking in more work even though he had not cleared the backlog from the last.
It soon became apparent that history was repeating itself when the same thing happened with this company; taking in work, nothing being completed and no communications. Rather than realising the situation had become untenable, he just closed the website and started another.
When one or two members had had enough, a couple of threads were started on H&V which brought out many more people who thought they were the only ones who were no satisfied with Geoff's service.
With the best will in the world, there is only so much people can take. Mental illness, family circumstances, whatever, he has our sympathies but he also had our watches. Some very rare, expensive and meaningful pieces were sent to Geoff who did not carry out the work and did not return the watches. This has been explored quite a bit on the forums. I'm sure you'll agree that this thread is now helping people out and I for one hope everything works out well for both the members who have their watches returned and Geoff who we hope makes a full recovery.
I don't need the lecture thanks, i'm very well aware of Geoffs history, i'm part of it as i said! I'm pleased his wife survives. I'm aware of the frustration Geoff has caused numerous TZ members including me, not to mention others.
I stand by what i said, if you've never lived with ill health, personally or with a partner don't be so quick to condemn. I'm not making excuses for him just suggesting there may be mitigating circumstances.
It's easy to judge in a perfect world, but none of us live in that safe bubble-like, without fault or drama place. I don't need to back up either having had much grief, though i accept no loss at this mans hands, but i'm trying to see both sides, unlike many others.
If it's simply a case of fraud then that is different. If the guy is unwell then he may not even be aware of his actions in a cognitive way. Just something to consider for those who would pull the trigger, then ask the questions.
Traditionally the watch trade will help each other out in times of difficulty, technical or otherwise, it's how we have always done things. I cannot understand why help was not offered or sought in these unfortunate circumstances.
No lecture intended but, as you said, you've not been the position that many have both on and off this forum so you may not truly understand the feelings of those who have. I agree with what you are saying, that others should not be quick to judge but by the same measure, you should'nt be as quick to judge us. :)Shadowman, back up a bit buddy. geoff was given so much slack by members of this forum it was untrue. Everyone who had business with Geoff understood and sympathised with his siuation when the eventually found out what issues he had. Yes, his Mrs suffers from ill health and this may have lead towards his possible mental condition. The fact still remains that, even though this issues were present, he still found time to accept work even though he had not cleared his backlog.
His communications were, at best, rare and inconclusive and many customers were without their watches for a year or (much) more with no idea when or if they would be returned. When people started complaining about his company he shut the website down and started another before taking in more work even though he had not cleared the backlog from the last.
It soon became apparent that history was repeating itself when the same thing happened with this company; taking in work, nothing being completed and no communications. Rather than realising the situation had become untenable, he just closed the website and started another.
When one or two members had had enough, a couple of threads were started on H&V which brought out many more people who thought they were the only ones who were no satisfied with Geoff's service.
With the best will in the world, there is only so much people can take. Mental illness, family circumstances, whatever, he has our sympathies but he also had our watches. Some very rare, expensive and meaningful pieces were sent to Geoff who did not carry out the work and did not return the watches. This has been explored quite a bit on the forums. I'm sure you'll agree that this thread is now helping people out and I for one hope everything works out well for both the members who have their watches returned and Geoff who we hope makes a full recovery.
I don't need the lecture thanks, i'm very well aware of Geoffs history, i'm part of it as i said! I'm pleased his wife survives. I'm aware of the frustration Geoff has caused numerous TZ members including me, not to mention others.
I stand by what i said, if you've never lived with ill health, personally or with a partner don't be so quick to condemn. I'm not making excuses for him just suggesting there may be mitigating circumstances.
It's easy to judge in a perfect world, but none of us live in that safe bubble-like, without fault or drama place. I don't need to back up either having had much grief, though i accept no loss at this mans hands, but i'm trying to see both sides, unlike many others.
If it's simply a case of fraud then that is different. If the guy is unwell then he may not even be aware of his actions in a cognitive way. Just something to consider for those who would pull the trigger, then ask the questions.
Closing one website/business with its reputation in tatters and opening a new one in order to keep doing the same thing smacks of someone playing the "mental" card like an old joanna. "Don't criticize me, I'm SICK, look!".
I believe he's gone through three businesses now. One can't be that affected to have done all that and escaped censure (how come he hasn't been struck off the register as a company director? It would, by the sounds of it, be for his own good as well as that of his current and potential customers).If it's simply a case of fraud then that is different. If the guy is unwell then he may not even be aware of his actions in a cognitive way. Just something to consider for those who would pull the trigger, then ask the questions.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
[/quote] No lecture intended but, as you said, you've not been the position that many have both on and off this forum so you may not truly understand the feelings of those who have. I agree with what you are saying, that others should not be quick to judge but by the same measure, you should'nt be as quick to judge us. :)[/quote]
I'm not condeming or judging anyone for being rightly pi$$ed off. What i said is, condsider all the facts. If the guy is now confirmed as mentally unwell :?: That will have been developing over a period of time and may have been unrecognised for even longer. It would seem no one outside of GD or maybe his doctors will know the facts:?:
What i was told by Geoff a year plus ago was, it was becoming difficult to balance work with caring for his wife. The need to be a carer overides everything else but the instinct to keep taikng on work, because you need to earn a living when self employed are equally strong, it's called survival.
I'm happy to stand shoulder to shoulder with TZ members :) All i suggest is, however frustrating, consider the predicament the guy may have been in for some time, which will surely be even worse now.
The keyword for me is health. Never ever underestimate mental health, assuming it has relevance to GD as has been suggested. If on the other hand he's just a rogue, then i withdraw all and any defence of the guy.
What's been great about this board is that people have been able to share information about this situation, whose nature none of us fully understand. Though many have expressed some frustration, this is legitimate, and in fact that really hasn't taken the upper hand. And now it looks like there might be an opportunity for members to recoup some of their property--in some cases, worth many thousands of pounds (before they were sent to Geoff). Doing so is hardly predatory. To the extent that this can be done, it will also help clear up Geoff's obligations. No one's holding him to the usual standards of business propriety, as it's clear that, for whatever reason, this is unrealistic. Taking our watches back, in whatever condition they're in, makes it pretty clear that we'll leave it at that. The longer things go, the less likely it is we'll get anything back. Mine went in in 2009, and I was quite fond of it.
Fair one matey, i see what you are saying and never doubted your intentions. I don't question your standing and you are of course correct; all the facts need to be considered.
Just as an adendum, i don't think Geoff is a rogue, on the contrary, i think he had the best of intentions. I just don't think he recognised his limitations and it is because of this we find ourselves in this position. His situation has only exacerbated the issues and i hope he can find a way out.
I live not too far from Milton Keynes - and would be happy to meet someone at the workshop, or go there on behalf of a TZ'er if it would help.
So clever my foot fell off.
Arghh - Lost my post . . .
Will try to recover !
Great - do you want the full job description before you decide ? ?
Possible Scenario . . .
For Each Item/Owner
1. Collect Documents and eMails and other such proofs of ownership of item (photos would help)
2. Visit Workshop at arranged time and probably have to search a number of small boxes to find item(s).
3. Pack up parts and pieces and post Special Delivery to Owner.
(postage+costs to be PP from owner)
????????
How does that sound ?
Pete
Sounds like you're knocking someone for trying to help.Great - do you want the full job description before you decide ? ?
Possible Scenario . . .
For Each Item/Owner
1. Collect Documents and eMails and other such proofs of ownership of item (photos would help)
2. Visit Workshop at arranged time and probably have to search a number of small boxes to find item(s).
3. Pack up parts and pieces and post Special Delivery to Owner.
(postage+costs to be PP from owner)
????????
How does that sound ?
Pete
? ? ? ?
Hardly !
Just checking that all facets of the nature of the beast are understood.
Just trying to help here myself.
Pete
I am aware of what I am offering, and of course no guarantees could be given, but if it would help I would be prepared to try on behalf of TZ'ers.? ? ? ?
Hardly !
Just checking that all facets of the nature of the beast are understood.
Just trying to help here myself.
Pete
Being part of a community means putting in as well as taking out, in my humble opinion.
So clever my foot fell off.
Posting Permissions