I was towards buying one, and i still am. but i do agree with most, and i wouldn't buy retail..
I'm italian, and i like everything italian! it's a matter of pride, culture and belonging for me..
having said that i've lived in this country a third of my life, and it saddens me to see there's hardly any manufacturing left, and i mean big names.
so when i see, a watch manufacturer whose for better or worse is trying to MAKE something here in the UK, i pay close attention.. that's me though, and by no means i wanna be judgemental towards anyone because they think otherwise
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I've been to their Canary Wharf store a number of times, watches on stands in glass cases, anything from three to ten watches per case. Quite stylishly done for a small store but not an awful lot different from other watch stores closer to Waitrose in Cabot Square (I think?).
Are you sure? Prove it!
I'm fascinated by your obsession with attempting to prove that their back story is fake. You're not alone but possibly more obsessed than others. Do you not have any history/stories that can't be proven because there's no record of it on the internet? I certainly do.
Is their story true? I don't know, I guess that's between them and the other person or people that were there at the time. I wonder how early on in the history of the company the story was mentioned? Was it the moment they started making watches for sale, was it later? I recall a comment that their initial plan was simply to make a handful of watches per year so if that is the case then why would they need a marketing back story? It seems to be quite a nice name for two brothers (and possibly their families - no marketing dept at that time) to come up with out of thin air. May be they actually met someone at some point in time who they thought a lot of and it seemed a good name to put on the face of the watches? When companies initially set up their owners need to think of a good brand name that sells a product. They obviously decided that 'English' watches didn't cut it but somewhere along the line the name Bremont came along. Good for them in choosing something unique and memorable.
The back story is a nice little touch but not important when purchasing a watch, you do that because you like the watch and are prepared to pay what is asked. Let's take the new Hercules LE for example. I'd never heard of that aeroplane before the watch came along but what an interesting story behind that and what an interesting aeroplane. Whether you believe that it's worth what is asked and you like the watch is between you and your wallet. Compared with other watches at the same price point (or above) I think that it's holding its own.
I saw Christopher Ward mentioned earlier on in this thread and I like those watches as well. They don't seem to be as good quality as the likes of Bremont but of course they wouldn't be as they're significantly cheaper. I would be quite happy owning one though and may well do at some point. At least Christopher Ward can show his birth certificate and not be concerned about supposed watch fans questioning his ethics (or can they now that he's left the company, will watch fans suggest that he doesn't care about the company now that he's left?)
Back to the original question, I don’t have a Bremont because I’m not drawn to them and I think they are way overpriced.
Tried to like them and came close once upon a time to pulling the trigger.
Must admit I am not up to speed with the models but is it me or do they seem to be knocking out too many models lately.
It’s a very strange argument to go on about the history of the name for a company. I have no idea where the name Rolex, Omega, Hublot, Zenith, Seiko, Casio, and a whole host of other watch brands got their names from, and to be honest I’ve never looked into how they were named, as it’s simply not relevant to whether the product looks good and is of a quality that’s acceptable ymmv
It's just a matter of time...
Well, this whole thread has been fascinating in many ways. So much so that I couldn’t help but find myself in Berry’s in Leeds yesterday, having a closer look.
I couldn’t give a toss about where the name comes from or the in-house movement thing but as I’ve said before, I do like British ‘stuff’. Absolutely no political slant btw, I just like to support the UK economy if and where I can. Unfortunately, as I’ve also said before, yesterday just reinforced my view that the models I’d really like to like, are just too blooming big. On my tiny wrist, they don’t sit well at all. I have other large diameter watches from Tudor, Davosa and Seiko, that I can get away with but the 43mm Bremont case just doesn’t work for me.
So, there you are. I can forget all the marketing ‘hype’ and the, in some people’s eyes, inflated prices. Instead I can simply say ‘size matters’ in answer to the OP’s question.
One of the most entertaining threads I’ve read for ages though
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I'd certainly put Omega's endless moon-landing and Bond film "limited editions" in the 'contrived' category. And I say that as a massive Omega fan! I think this stuff either bothers you, or it doesn't - and ultimately the extent to which it does is governed by how much you like the product.
For me it’s tempting when a nice MB2 with the orange barrel pops up on SC around the £2k mark. If I were looking to buy new at £4K would I look at Bremont, probably not. There’s an awful lot of choice round that pricing level and I suspect my money would go elsewhere.
Well......they did wear one on the moon........and they did wear them in the Bond films......, so hardly 'contrived'. Although sometimes a little overplayed perhaps I will admit! But true nonetheless. And that said as another Omega fan.
As for Bremont, I think they're overpriced, but good luck to them. I think they would fit in well with pubs that have fake propellers etc hanging on the wall, and barmen in aprons with beards and huge earrings, serving chips in mesh baskets on pieces of slate.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Well, not really. He was just one of three men in a boat (allegedly), who decided to start a watch company. The other two were Mike France and Peter Ellis. They were the senior shareholders from the outset and CW was the watch guy, from a business perspective, he was always a junior partner. He just had the better name (allegedly)!
Last edited by snowman; 6th January 2020 at 17:56.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
In that price range I’d go for a Tudor or Omega, plus their watches all seem a little chunky for my taste.
Perhaps because they don't make claims that seem a little.........contrived.........?
It was one morning when I was sitting on the upper level of a double-decker powered at that time by horses, driving along Cheapside in London, that a good genie whispered in my ear: "Rolex." A few days after this fruitful journey, the Rolex brand was filed, and then officially registered in Switzerland by Wilsdorf & Davis - Hans Wilsdorf
Hmmmmmm
While i respect everybody's argument and prospective, i want to ask..
Why is the in-house movement (or the lack there of) such a deal breaker for so many people?
i mean, most in-house nowadays, offers nothing more than ETA would.. as such, let's take a look at Tudor since it has been mentioned a couple of times here, their Pelagos use to have an ETA and that version is thinner than the one with the in-house movement, for one. what i'm trying to say is, unless an in-house offers some true/meaningful technical innovation, what's the point?
Sure, i wouldn't like to see a VC or a Patek with an ETA, even if it's a time only watch, but that's just because of what those brands represent in the industry..
NOMOS on the other hand has pushed for their in-house and they came up with something worthy of their time and money, and righty so, they're marketing is very much focus into that.. having said that, i don't see people queuing in front of their stores..
Apologies for this semi/rant, but i think the in-house argument is useless the very most of the times
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Re: In house or not
What do I expect from the manufacturer?
For Bremont, and similar companies such as B&R, outsourced movements are what I expect, BUT the price point needs to be appropriate. This is where Bremont can come unstuck with their dive watches against Omega and Tudor alternatives.
For the likes of IWC and Breitling using someone else’s movement makes me thing they could, and should, do more.
Dave
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+1 for Omega
-1 for Tudor
the latter as i don't see how a Tudor in-house is better than a Tudor ETA..
but i'm open to change my mind.
PS
i do agree.. strongly.. with whom says that Bremont are indeed overpriced. luckily their second hand market place them much closer, if not spot on to where they should be.
Bremont is not alone when it comes to overpriced watches, Blancpain is a prime example of that, and like Bremont, Blancpain has a much healthier second hand market
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Just to clarify something: One of the reasons Bremont came under the wrong type of scrutiny is because they used WIS bait to big themselves up to the general public.
The general public (non-WIS) doesn't care whether the calibre is in-house or not. In fact, it doesn't even know what it means (I am not prepared to believe the brothers if/when they pretend they didn't know either). Unfortunately they didn't learn from TAG's fiasco, despite the cost to TAG's image... in the WIS community.
From there on, all their marketing was going to be subject to caution, and indeed when they could have substantiated their claims -including an apparently inconsequential one, like the origin of the company's name- they chose not to. Again, they may be many things but they're neither stupid nor incompetent, marketing-wise. So it's their choice. They made it because, frankly, the WIS community is negligible in terms of turnover. Especially as some of us are seduced by the design, or they can relate to the products in one way or another: buying a watch is rarely a cold-blooded head-only decision, it's most of the time a mainly emotional decision (except SS Professional Rolex, which must be first and foremost an investment, if most Rolex threads are to be believed).
But to expand on the bigger picture, which is the price point, I agree that Bremont are not the only ones who, compared to the competition, do not offer value for money at the RRP.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Silicon hairspring so it’s anti magnetic, 70 hour power reserve so it’s still ticking on Monday morning. Those alone make the Tudor in house movement better than an ETA. Plus a true GMT movement in the BB. All those things make a real world difference. I also think they put the Tudor movements pretty close to the Omega movements, albeit with less marketing around them.
Apparently the Tudor balance bridge design is also an improvement over ETA but I don’t know enough about movements to know if it’s true.
The difference between an in-house movement and a stock ETA is the same as cooking your own gourmet meal and buying a frozen TV dinner from M & S. Both might taste good and fill your stomach but your self cooked meal has its own value.
i probably didn't make my self very clear, but the point that i was trying to make is, Tudor hasn't done anything new, nor innovative by introducing they're own calibre, they just picked and choose bits from other movements and slapped them together, and job done..
if in the beginning they chose a basic ETA over a more elaborate one, it isn't ETA's fault, because i can tell you that, everything Tudor does with their calibre, ETA can do better.
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Exactly, a few in-house would be better as ETA’s. ;)
I’m confused by your first paragraph - which multiple movements were bits chosen from and then slapped together?
Why do you think ETA can do everything better just because it’s their base caliber - lots of other brands add improvements to base calibers.
It's just a matter of time...
Well, mainly due to this thread, I have just bought a second hand still in warranty, White dialled, green barrel MB.
What a great looking watch in a fantastic combo. Comes in a lovely package and beautifully made. Sits next to my Hulk and is in no way embarrassed by it.
I was answering the gentlemen who stated that Tudor has implemented silicon hairspring and higher PR in their new in-house movement. they could have done the same using ETA, they simply had to ask them for it.
anyhow it's quite clear that in-house means very little to me unless it comes with true novelties (that's when i called NOMOS and Omega), and i'd rather have a higher grade ETA instead of a Breitling in-house or Tudor for that matter.
let's agree to disagree
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How would they have implemented the more robust balance bridge design (secured on both sides of the balance) on a base ETA? Or regulation by screws on the balance wheel? I guess it’s all possible but would have been so reworked as essentially being in house. These aren’t exactly novelties given the similarities with Rolex movements, but it all adds up to a movement that you couldn’t get from ETA with real advantages.
Out of interest which Nomos movements do you think add real novelties? I guess you don’t mean the Alpha movement which is basically an in house Peseux 7001 (I have a Nomos in my collection so I’m not talking them down).
And can I ask what you think is so different about Omega’s movements? To me seem to be pretty similar in terms of novelty to the Tudor movements.
I’m happy to agree to disagree and clearly different people care more or less about in house movements (I have a mix in my collection), but I think you’re being a bit unfair on Tudor!
Last edited by momentum; 9th January 2020 at 02:45.
I'll try a third approach to answer your first paragraph.. so, for me, and only me.. the more robust balance bridge design (secured on both sides of the balance), or regulation by screws on the balance wheel do not add value to a watch, when compared to an ETA. what I would want to see in a movement which isn't an ETA or alike, is hand finishing of a superior level, or a ridiculous power riserve and so on so forth..
i'm not trying to be unfair to Tudor, as i hold nothing against them, it's just a brand that doesn't do it for me and was mentioned before in the thread.
I'm sure the same could be said about the new Breitling B01, i'm sure someone will like it and will want it..
NOMOS on the other hand, it's a brand which i keep gravitating towards, but find it hard to commit to.. i'm really keen to try their DUW calibre.
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I mentioned earlier in this post about the in-house movement, it is not as straightforward as some of you think. We're not buying a manufacture or a pre-existing movement, this is a brand new movement designed by Stephen McDonnell and there are many stages to go through to make it technically and commercially viable.
It's a brand I want to like, but struggle to. Two relatively simple reasons.
Brand image - done to death, but for me, some of the associations and pieces of material inserted into the LEs are a bit naff. They bump up the price, massively, and the horological merit is also questionable. FWIW, I don't admire other brands for similar antics, whether it's the numerous Speedy "LEs", Tudor's use of Beckham, Tag's Ambassadors with watch knuckle dusters, or IWC's use of the silver Spitfire. Yes I know they named a watch after it, but they're Swiss. Ironically that's more appropriate for Bremont. I admire their efforts and success, but the mixture of expensive LEs and ADs such as Beaverbrooks, which generally is exactly able to sell the merits of their range, they are a bit muddled. Why not mirror the likes of GS, and stick to boutique shops. Created exclusivity and demand. They'll still sell in large numbers.
I've met Nick and was suitably impressed by his passion, and was convinced I would buy one.
Reliability - I had the opportunity to buy a project GMT (see above) but when a couple of friends had repeated issues with theirs, as did some of their friends, I paused. And while paused I naturally reviewed the brand, cost v value, and likely longevity of ownership. I wasn't prepared to take the risk.
Long story short: a lot of positives, but for me, not quite delivering on the brand appeal or VFM, given the competition. I hope this will change, as there is a lot to like.
Well, in the watch industry, less subjective than in others. We have the second hand and grey markets which gives a pretty accurate judgment about value. Also, if there are a lot of fakes, that implies perception of value and high demand in relation to availability.
Going back to the OP, I like them a lot but in order to get me to buy one of them at the current price, I would need something better than an ETA movement. It’s a criticism you can apply to some IWC as well.
I acknowledge the work they put in to the cases but I agree that Sinn is too close and for a lot less.
If they genuinely build a movement in the UK sub £6k, I would probably get interested.
For me it’s no more complex than loving the design of the case and dials.
The MBII is beautiful to my eyes.
The chap who is designing Bremont's in-house movement can be see in this video chatting through some of his previous work. I believe Bremont has a very bright future and I own three of them: two MBIII Special Editions and an ALT1-C Polished Black. The two military special editions I bought as mementos of different times in my military career. The ALT1-C Polished Black I purchased simply because I love the look of the watch and I got a very good price on it buying directly from Bremont while collecting one of the special editions.
Last edited by Skier; 14th January 2020 at 21:33.