Reply With QuoteGood point your making there,I've only ever bought 2 watches from new
but the increases in the last 2 years have now put an end to that.............. :x :(
Just got another brochure through from an AD and it has the prices listed and it really does bring it home how mad the prices have gone in the last 3 years. Usually when i wander round AD's i don't see the prices, but now i am seeing them it's just depressing, a few of them in the book are:
IWC Mk XXV - £3200 (nearly 10 times a speedbird :shock: )
JLC Navy Seal divers watch - £9500, for a divers watch!!!
Breitling Airwolf Raven Quartz - £3200, for a quartz :shock:
Bulgari Sotirio - £4080, for a designer watch
Tag Heuer Calibre 36 - £5000 :shock: :shock: :shock:
Panerai 320 - £5100, taking over from the older models with 25% added to the price!
Chanel J12 - £2750, another designer watch with a real watch price.
There's lots more in there, Patek are almost out of sight at around £20000 starting prices for the watches listed, everyone else seems to be up there with these prices or above, but bloody hell, how did the pricing get so far out of control :evil:
I honestly can't see me buying a new watch again, and with the amount of money secondhand ones are going for it'll take me a few years to save for another watch i'd like such as the GMT IIC or the likes, with each year pushing it further and further up :(
Good point your making there,I've only ever bought 2 watches from new
but the increases in the last 2 years have now put an end to that.............. :x :(
YES - hence I only buy 2nd hand :wink:
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Pretty much sums up how i feelOriginally Posted by Andyg
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
It certainly looks insane, and tbh very hard not to be extremely cynical.
Bonuses Are Back, Suckers :twisted:
Manufacturers know there is just enough demand being propped up around the world. You think all those with credit-crunch hand-outs are going to give them to charity?
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Only two reasons: first the GBP currency has lost over 35% compared to the Swiss Frank and all the brands you mentioned have been playing a game: Going Upmarket; how much do we have to increase the prices to until there is less of a demand....? :twisted:
you would think there was a plateau but there does not seem to be.
The current econmic climate must be having an impact yet watch houses seem to be increasing prices, i can appreciate that the costs in Europe have risen in line with the strong Euro but some these prices are off the wall.
£3-4K seem to be the norm these days for a new Breitling / Omega and if you want to get on the JLC ladder then expect to pay £6k plus, new is no longer an option in my view :(
Trouble is with price rises on new means that the pre-owned values seem to rise as well
Dave
Maybe we should all buy Homage watches, as a message too the brands that are clearly over charging :idea:
Ditto :PPretty much sums up how i feel
"I looked with pity not untinged with scorn upon these trivial-minded passers-by"
A fake is a fake however you try to justify it.
I need you to explain your definition of fake.A fake is a fake however you try to justify it.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I doubt this will affect or influence prices - are you seriously suggesting that Patek Phillipe will radically review their price point and structure on the back of a few hundred quid homage?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Me too. I just bought an immaculate Sinn 756 on leather for £625; new price is £1245. I will add the bracelet (£275) but that brings it to £900 and the new price with the bracelet is £1425.Pretty much sums up how i feel
Perhaps not, but the Omega's, Breitlings, Panerai, IWC and Rolex's of this world might just get the boot up the arse they deserve, if they sold nothing for a year.I doubt this will affect or influence prices - are you seriously suggesting that Patek Phillipe will radically review their price point and structure on the back of a few hundred quid homage?
Price's of new watches, from middle order watches brands are way too high imo. Good design and quality products have their place, but to charge 10 times more for something that is 99% the same cannot be right. :evil:
My examples this year have been to buy a Tourby Fleiger and a Marcello C, I can't see how the watches they pay homage too are really worth 10X their cost.
The bigger brands have not really been hit by the thousands of fakes coming onto the market and I doubt that enthusiasts buying homages will have any effect at all. As regards the 99% - that's not the issue, generally there is a large portion of the market who want the real McCoy - the reminder of the market are happy with watches that pay homage, others are happy with plain fakes....Perhaps not, but the Omega's, Breitlings, Panerai, IWC and Rolex's of this world might just get the boot up the arse they deserve, if they sold nothing for a year.I doubt this will affect or influence prices - are you seriously suggesting that Patek Phillipe will radically review their price point and structure on the back of a few hundred quid homage?
Price's of new watches, from middle order watches brands are way too high imo. Good design and quality products have their place, but to charge 10 times more for something that is 99% the same cannot be right. :evil:
My examples this year have been to buy a Tourby Fleiger and a Marcello C, I can't see how the watches they pay homage too are really worth 10X their cost.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
[quote=Chris_in_the_UK][quote=captainhowdy][quote="Chris_in_the_UK":3ptr9q71][quote=captainhowdy]Maybe we should all buy Homage watches, as a message too the brands that are clearly over charging :idea:[/quote]
I doubt this will affect or influence prices - are you seriously suggesting that Patek Phillipe will radically review their price point and structure on the back of a few hundred quid homage?[/quote]
Perhaps not, but the Omega's, Breitlings, Panerai, IWC and Rolex's of this world might just get the boot up the arse they deserve, if they sold nothing for a year.
Price's of new watches, from middle order watches brands are way too high imo. Good design and quality products have their place, but to charge 10 times more for something that is 99% the same cannot be right. :evil:
My examples this year have been to buy a Tourby Fleiger and a Marcello C, I can't see how the watches they pay homage too are really worth 10X their cost.[/quote][/quote:3ptr9q71]
The bigger brands have not really been hit by the thousands of fakes coming onto the market
When you arrive back on Earth, check this out, took me 10 seconds to find, all top brands listed, I'm sure they are over the moon to be untouched by Fakes.
[url="http://www.watch-replica.net/replica_watches_patek_philippe.html"]http://www.watch-replica.net/replica_wa ... lippe.html[/url]
This whole thing has brought the secondhand market up as well, you look at secondhand panerai or rolex, they're clearing 3k with the nearly new stuff, 3 and a bit years ago these same watches were £2350 brand new out the AD :shock:
The secondhand market will also be moved upwards if the new stuff doesn't sell, it's the way of the world, i know of a UK company who would control their secondhand market, as they were the main source of secondhand products as well, if the secondhand price dropped too much they would cease to put more on the market, if it was too high they'd put more on the market, and hey presto, they have another selling point by the fact that their product still commander a good price secondhand.
I agree to an extent.
Without a list i can't recall how many are part of the Swatch group.
All those I just assume greedy bastard Hayek.
Paul
GOT...TO...KILL...CAPTAIN STUPID!
Panerai, IWC, JLC and a few others are Richemont.
Blancpain, Omega, Longines, Breguet and a few others are Swatch.
LVMH have the likes of Tag Heuer, Zenith, etc.
I would add all of them are the same in putting up the prices, just look at Zenith, their prices are obscene compared to 5 years ago, Tag are also going up and up, i highlighted one at £5000, which is jumping above quite a lot of high end companies, for a tag :shock:
Panerai, IWC, JLC and a few others are Richemont.
Blancpain, Omega, Longines, Breguet and a few others are Swatch.
LVMH have the likes of Tag Heuer, Zenith, etc.
I would add all of them are the same in putting up the prices, just look at Zenith, their prices are obscene compared to 5 years ago, Tag are also going up and up, i highlighted one at £5000, which is jumping above quite a lot of high end companies, for a tag :shock:
How much 4 a Tag?
If i had to buy one, be a Grand max.
I may cause a row here, but i don't regard them as prestige/high end.
Paul
GOT...TO...KILL...CAPTAIN STUPID!
I don't think many do, they're in the same kind of vain as Bell and Ross, Chopard and others, sitting below the mid to high end stuff.
The thing that annoys me though is that the watches are now moving out of the price range of a lot of the fans and watch lovers, just look on here and those who love watches tend to be like me in the main with the amount they can use for watch purchases, but it's taking longer to save for watches and that can only make it harder for people to even bother :(
A significant proportion (the majority?) of the high end watches sold new at these prices are not selling to "watch lovers", though. They are bought in a spirit of conspicuous consumption to make a statement regarding the affluence of the buyer/wearer. Bling, if you will...
That being so, the exorbitant price tag would count as a positive to one who's interested in flaunting wealth (real or affected).
The percentage of the watch buying population who might choose to by a homage (as distinct from a fake) is miniscule, so even if every one of us boycotted the major brands from now till eternity, it wouldn't change a thing, methinks.
Cheers,
Steve.
Aye, life's hard
buying used is the way forward, let someone else take the initial depreciation
I was in Mappin & Webb on friday , bought some cufflinks not a watch to their dissapointment :D
However i looked at the Explorer 2 white face , tried it on beautiful watch but £3,690 is alot of money in my opinion ,asked about a discount ,on Rolex sports , they are hard to get hold of,considering Wos and David Robinson both had a explorers in the window :roll: ,They had a JLC polrais , its gergeous and a amvox :love4: , well they had a lots of watches and they seemed to have the same stock as "last month " , If the Rolex sports arent in the window then they are in the display within the store or the safe ,The salesman told me there will be another Roex price rise in Febury/March i said really ? and that was that
Watch amkers really are testing the boundaries in my opinion a qaurtz Tag is now almost a grand , whats going on?
New watch, new car, same thing. They're sniggering to themselves even as you leave the showroom/shop. My Dutch in-laws had a jewellers, and if I recall, had a 40% mark up on Rollies :shock:
2nd hand, pre owned, previously enjoyed. I've never done it any other way. Let someone else take the hit :evil:
Yep, same here, but secondhand is higher than ever as well, and if there are fewer new watches sold it makes secondhand even more of a premium as it turns into a sellers market.
A Rolex Submariner is something like £3800 new, a nearly new one will set you back about £3200, an older one that is close to needing a service will still be £2500, whereas 3 years ago it cost £2350 new, £1800 secondhand and you could get them for £1500 if they were a little bit older.
Basically the secondhand price has almost doubled, yet people still say 'it's ok, i just buy secondhand', but that market is rising just as fast!
You are shopping in the wrong place then if they offered no discount on a bog-standard, in-stock, Explorer.I was in Mappin & Webb on friday , bought some cufflinks not a watch to their dissapointment :D
However i looked at the Explorer 2 white face , tried it on beautiful watch but £3,690 is alot of money in my opinion ,asked about a discount ,
Vote with your feet.
[quote=captainhowdy][quote=Chris_in_the_UK][quote=captainhowdy][quote="Chris_in_the_UK":11z0pqk8][quote=captainhowdy]Maybe we should all buy Homage watches, as a message too the brands that are clearly over charging :idea:[/quote]
I doubt this will affect or influence prices - are you seriously suggesting that Patek Phillipe will radically review their price point and structure on the back of a few hundred quid homage?[/quote]
Perhaps not, but the Omega's, Breitlings, Panerai, IWC and Rolex's of this world might just get the boot up the arse they deserve, if they sold nothing for a year.
Price's of new watches, from middle order watches brands are way too high imo. Good design and quality products have their place, but to charge 10 times more for something that is 99% the same cannot be right. :evil:
My examples this year have been to buy a Tourby Fleiger and a Marcello C, I can't see how the watches they pay homage too are really worth 10X their cost.[/quote][/quote]
The bigger brands have not really been hit by the thousands of fakes coming onto the market
When you arrive back on Earth, check this out, took me 10 seconds to find, all top brands listed, I'm sure they are over the moon to be untouched by Fakes.
[url="http://www.watch-replica.net/replica_watches_patek_philippe.html"]http://www.watch-replica.net/replica_wa ... lippe.html[/url][/quote:11z0pqk8]
Firstly I am fairly and squarely on planet earth and have collected and traded watches from cheap and cheerful to very rare military pieces over many years. Please do consider that link as the definitive position on the market and the effect of fakes. It's a useful discussion but fakes are bought by fools and wannabes in my book. Please do not take this in anything other than the spirit it is intended - the fake market mostly catches out fools and the unwary and has little effect on the real deal.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
You won't get that out of a hit-n-run, Eddie :DI need you to explain your definition of fake.A fake is a fake however you try to justify it.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I'm not sure I understand AndieYou won't get that out of a hit-n-run, Eddie :DI need you to explain your definition of fake.A fake is a fake however you try to justify it.
It’s amazing particularly in light of the current worldwide economic conditions that the usual suspects in the Swiss Watch World think that they can blithely continue on with their lockstep price increases. Some of those brands used to be expensive but affordable for many folks - now :roll:
Yeah, 5 years ago it would have taken about 6 months for me to save up the cash to buy a Rolex Submariner or GMT II, now it would have to be a year, if you think £4000 divided by 12 equals £333.33 each month that's still a lot of money to put to one side each month, but when they were £2350 back in 2006 at least you could see an end to the saving.
Moving up to JLC or the likes is just so much money that i doubt i'd even start looking at it, i'd be bored of waiting after a year and end up buying something cheaper.
Second hand is the only way to buy IMHO.
No argument.
We are clearly missing the big picture here. WIS are a small portion of the overall watch buying audience. Now comes the question what those "non-wis" people buy when they buy a watch? In most cases it is image, brand and belonging to some aspirational group that the buyer associates the brand to and in which he wants to belong to. Thus the bigger the price tag the more demand you will get.
You will not see the price tags getting any smaller. But, you will see more competition in Eddies genre. That´ll be the good price for value watches. And even on this genre the branding and price lifting has begun. No? Just look at MKII.
You ask my opinion, buy second hand, buy neo vintage and buy smart.
I'm glad this came up - thought I was going a bit mad over the last 18 months or so.
It wasn't so long ago that the Omega Sea Master Quartz was under £1k and the Auto just over £1k - had a look a while back and and the prices seemed to have jumped £200 - £300. Again with Rolex - last time I seriously looked at a Sub they were £2.5k. And TAG - well they've lost the plot I think - the non-chrono F1 quartz is near £700!
Incidenlty - having never bought new form an AD how's the best way to ask for a discount? do you just blatently ask? (never been too good at bargaining......)
Cheers
The current valuation certificate for my PP is approximately 50% higher than the one that was issued with the watch new, 3½ years ago.
Dave
Absolutely, yes! You blatantly ask, and they blatantly refuse.
It's a well worth pattern. :lol:
New watch prices have become daft in my opinion. Current prices have totally disconnected from the quality or cost of producing the watch, they are now nothing more than part of a "clever" pricing model based solely upon perceived rather than actual value. In other words, the marketing men of Swatch and Richemont have determined retail price based solely upon what they think people will pay rather than what they really will pay over the longer term.
The problem with this is that if sales start to fall as a result of the global economic slow down (and I find it very hard to believe that they haven't already) these marketing geniuses have no option but to either increase the prices still further to try and make up the shortfall in sales, or to reduce the RRP - which risks the brand because it is akin to admitting that the watches aren't worth what the company were trying to sell them for.
I guess the bottom line is that the increases we have seen are not justified. They are solely the result of greed on the part of the manufacturers, and we all know where unrestrained greed leads us don't we?
Just have a look at RBS, HBOS and pretty much the entire global banking system for your answer.
Any watch maker thinking they can keep putting up their prices for no genuinely justifiable reason is heading for a big fall in my humble opinion.
So clever my foot fell off.
I`ve just returned from holiday and I was checking Rolex prices in Barcelona. On Rolex, UK prices are still around 11% cheaper :shock: Didn`t get chance to compare Omega prices but I assume the story will be similar.
Following the huge price hikes of the last 2-3 years I reckon we'll see prices stabilise for a similar period, provided inflation stays low and there are no major currency swings.
I agree that the prices of premium brand watches are crazy and I question how sustainable the market is.
Paul
I think it will continue to thrive. These are the watches that non-wis buy each other for birthdays & anniversaries etc :wink: The watches need to be well-known and expensive to show how much they care :D
Freakonomics
http://freakonomicsbook.com/the-books/
Unfortunately, it seems that the rich get richer.
Luxury brands seem to link their prices to the wealthy, consequently enthusiasts (who are often not in the 'wealthy' category) end up stunned at the ridiculous increases.
Perhaps watch manufacturers should take a long look at their 'real' client base.
Now that a few players are banged up and a lot of the city button pushing t*ssers are agonising over the school fees and a visit to Jobcentre Plus, they got to get the money from somewhere :wink:
Oh how the watch companies must laugh reading this thread :lol:
You don't want to buy new? Good!
1) they don't make watches for the likes of us, so they don't care
2) they have started to realise that they can earn the same money, or more, by reducing production and increasing prices. Put yourself in their shoes, what's not to like? Those companies that do not play ball suffer immediately from a perceived lower-end image, and they can't afford it. So they try and move upmarket as well.
3) When you compare prices here with what they were 3 years ago, you might want to keep this in mind:
http://www.chennaicustoms.gov.in/import ... TE2006.htm
http://www.chennaicustoms.gov.in/import ... TE2009.htm
PS: did not find a proper site for direct conversion between Sterling and SF, so you need to do a little maths with the links above :D
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
A voice of reason amid a cacophonous sea of lost souls... :!: :blackeye:
Not down to the watch maunfacturers I know but prices will be higher still when VAT hits 20%...
The Swiss watch market are worried, sales are down by roughly 40-50%, ADs are starting to fall as well and they're now starting to look at boutiques as being the way forward, as well as closing down repair centres.
Next year is not looking rosy either, a few companies are looking at it being make or break, then hoping it picks up in 2011, but with more and more price rises they're going to struggle.
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