Speedmaster question

[stowaJLCfan]

Morning all,
I like the looks of the Speedmaster and have a quick question, have'nt had a chrono before so this is a new area for me. Auto Speedy's of all types seem to be quite unloved and often struggle to sell for little more than half the manual version.

Is the movement a bit of a dog, I assume its not a 7750 so is it a module and is it a bugger to fix.

Is a Speedy only a Speedy when its a manual pro. :? or am I better off with something with the valjoux fitted.

[SternG]

Nothing wrong with auto speedies IMO, it's just that the pro is (a) larger, with great wrist presence and (b) very close to the original moonwatch, thus more appealing to all those astronauts out there :P


Cheers

Stern

[Daddelvirks]

You can buy Speedy's with all sorts of movements.
The Valjoux, a piggy-back (module) chrono for the Speedmaster reduced, and their own 33xx series column-wheel automatic chrono, based on a Piguet movement.
But the original Speedy Pro should have a manual winding chrono, in this case the robust and trustworthy Lemania 1873.
They are most loved, and sell best second hand.

Cheers,

Daddel.

[2wrists]

I don't think the auto is a dog - it's just not a moonwatch! The heritage of the classic moonwatch (3570 - hesalite, solid, engraved caseback, manual-wind movement) means it will always be more appealing to collectors and therefore always more valuable. I guess the question is - do you prefer the convenience of an auto, or would you always be troubled by the fact that you hadn't quite got the 'real deal'...?

Of course if you want the REAL real deal, get a 321-calibre pre-'69 Speedmaster - the type that actually WENT to the Moon. You'll pay more than a new 3570, but the values are only going up... And it is a TREMENDOUSLY satisfying thing to have on your wrist!

[SternG]

Of course if you want the REAL real deal, get a 321-calibre pre-'69 Speedmaster - the type that actually WENT to the Moon. You'll pay more than a new 3570, but the values are only going up... And it is a TREMENDOUSLY satisfying thing to have on your wrist!

I've never seen a 321-calibre up close, but judging from pics I can't see why its ownership would bring greater satisfaction than that of a modern one :?

But then I like the 3573 sapphire sandwich so I guess that doesn't make me a purist huh? :)


Cheers

Stern

[Bernard]

Of course if you want the REAL real deal, get a 321-calibre pre-'69 Speedmaster - the type that actually WENT to the Moon. You'll pay more than a new 3570, but the values are only going up... And it is a TREMENDOUSLY satisfying thing to have on your wrist!

I've never seen a 321-calibre up close, but judging from pics I can't see why its ownership would bring greater satisfaction than that of a modern one :?

But then I like the 3573 sapphire sandwich so I guess that doesn't make me a purist huh? :)


Cheers

Stern

I've handled several cal. 321's and to my opinion they handle better. The use of the chrono is crisp and sharper than that on the later movements. The winding is smoother as well.

However, I don't think it's worth the premium.

I've had one of the piggyback auto's: they run well, mine was +1 sec/2weeks...
Just wearing it all the time except for showering/bathing. However, servicing is hard for most watchmakers.

I currently have a 7750 Speedmaster, a very nice watch, 39 mm's and - I had it serviced etc. - running at +2 sec. per 24 hours. It is a nice and comfortable watch. Frankly, I like it way more than I would have expected beforehand.

The 33** doesn't really appeal to me, so I can't tell you anything 'bout that one.

[thtan]

Morning all,
I like the looks of the Speedmaster and have a quick question, have'nt had a chrono before so this is a new area for me. Auto Speedy's of all types seem to be quite unloved and often struggle to sell for little more than half the manual version.

Is the movement a bit of a dog, I assume its not a 7750 so is it a module and is it a bugger to fix.

Is a Speedy only a Speedy when its a manual pro. or am I better off with something with the valjoux fitted.

Evening mate,

Congrats on dipping your toe in the Chrono pond, and the Speedmaster is a great choice.

However, if you're going to get one, make it the Original and the Best - vintage 321 Speedy, with straight or twisted lugs. Eventually the Speedmaster sickness WILL get you and you'll settle for nothing but. This way, you'll save money and get straight to the point.

Life's too short eh? :D

Cheers
Teng

[2wrists]

I've handled several cal. 321's and to my opinion they handle better. The use of the chrono is crisp and sharper than that on the later movements. The winding is smoother as well.

However, I don't think it's worth the premium.

Depends whether you're coming at it from a horological or historical perspective. If it was JUST a movement change, then sure, the 321 is a slightly nicer movement, but not worth a big premium. But if you want exactly the watch that Aldrin wore, then it's got to be a 145.012 with the 321 movement - the extra value (for some) comes from the association, rather than its inherent qualities as a watch.

[Bernard]

Depends whether you're coming at it from a horological or historical perspective. If it was JUST a movement change, then sure, the 321 is a slightly nicer movement, but not worth a big premium. But if you want exactly the watch that Aldrin wore, then it's got to be a 145.012 with the 321 movement - the extra value (for some) comes from the association, rather than its inherent qualities as a watch.

I just gave my opinion from a "users" point of view.
I see the value for a collector.

I have no special need for the watch Aldrin wore, or for the watch a certain James Bond wore ;)
(I have a SMP though, albeit that I bought mine BEFORE it was used in the Bond-movies).

[2wrists]

I've never seen a 321-calibre up close, but judging from pics I can't see why its ownership would bring greater satisfaction than that of a modern one :?

Because a modern one didn't actually go to the Moon! Sad, I know! If you're just as happy wearing a modern one, good on you - you've saved yourself a few quid!

[2wrists]

I have no special need for the watch Aldrin wore

Lucky you! Unfortunately, I do!

or for the watch a certain James Bond wore ;)

I'm with you on this one - I've always been slightly embarrassed by the SMP-Bond connection...

[Saint-Just]

I may be wrong (it has happen to me before :lol: ) but I believe the 861 went to the moon as well, not just in space.

[SternG]

I've never seen a 321-calibre up close, but judging from pics I can't see why its ownership would bring greater satisfaction than that of a modern one :?

Because a modern one didn't actually go to the Moon! Sad, I know! If you're just as happy wearing a modern one, good on you - you've saved yourself a few quid!

I'd be very happy indeed with a shiny new one 8)

Talking about quid, and in particular the quid/euro exchange rate, I think I might pick one up when I come to the UK in December. Apparently all Omega ADs and grey dealers are offering discounts left and right. Be prepared for another tiresome "Where can I get the best discount for a speedmaster?" thread in a few weeks :lol: :lol:


Cheers

Stern

[2wrists]

I may be wrong (it has happen to me before :lol: ) but I believe the 861 went to the moon as well, not just in space.

It's pretty unlikely, but Chuck wrote the definitive study on this - if you have all day to read it!

[2wrists]

However, if you're going to get one, make it the Original and the Best - vintage 321 Speedy, with straight or twisted lugs. Eventually the Speedmaster sickness WILL get you and you'll settle for nothing but. This way, you'll save money and get straight to the point.

Life's too short eh? :D

Listen to this man!

[brownip]

However, if you're going to get one, make it the Original and the Best - vintage 321 Speedy, with straight or twisted lugs. Eventually the Speedmaster sickness WILL get you and you'll settle for nothing but. This way, you'll save money and get straight to the point.

Life's too short eh? :D

Listen to this man!

I heartily agree - save your pennies and get the real thing! Save a few more pennies and you can retro-fit a display back to the 321 and drool over/show off the movement at will.

Ian :)

[dodgyknee]

Nothing wrong with auto speedies IMO, it's just that the pro is (a) larger, with great wrist presence and (b) very close to the original moonwatch, thus more appealing to all those astronauts out there :P


Cheers

Stern

I never get the hang of the sizes of the SM. How much larger is the SMP?

[Saint-Just]

I may be wrong (it has happen to me before :lol: ) but I believe the 861 went to the moon as well, not just in space.

It's pretty unlikely, but Chuck wrote the definitive study on this - if you have all day to read it!

I didn't want to go through the whole maddox, but I thought the 861 was commissioned in 69ish. Since Apollo 17 was Dec 72... But I'll bow to superior knowledge quite easily :D

[SternG]

Nothing wrong with auto speedies IMO, it's just that the pro is (a) larger, with great wrist presence and (b) very close to the original moonwatch, thus more appealing to all those astronauts out there :P


Cheers

Stern

I never get the hang of the sizes of the SM. How much larger is the SMP?

:? :? Are we discussing the SMP?

[Neil.C]

[quote=Saint-Just]

I may be wrong (it has happen to me before :lol: ) but I believe the 861 went to the moon as well, not just in space.

It's pretty unlikely, but Chuck wrote the definitive study on this - if you have all day to read it!

I didn't want to go through the whole maddox, but I thought the 861 was commissioned in 69ish. Since Apollo 17 was Dec 72... But I'll bow to superior knowledge quite easily :D[/quote:rzjq9lgr]

They used the watches they already had.

[dodgyknee]

Is that an abbreviation faux pas on my part?

How about speedy auto Vs speedy pro size then :lol:

[SternG]

Is that an abbreviation faux pas on my part?

How about speedy auto Vs speedy pro size then :lol:

SMP = SeaMaster Professional :wink:

Speedy Pro is 42 mm and Speedy auto is 39 mm excl crown, I think. About the lug spacing I'm not sure


Stern

[stowaJLCfan]

Thanks all, :salute: much to chew over here and for once its not just the price!

[scubasky100]

If you want the "real thing" it has to be a pro

[Neil.C]

Is that an abbreviation faux pas on my part?

How about speedy auto Vs speedy pro size then :lol:

SMP = SeaMaster Professional :wink:

Speedy Pro is 42 mm and Speedy auto is 39 mm excl crown, I think. About the lug spacing I'm not sure


Stern

20mm + 18mm

[andrew]

If you want the "real thing" it has to be a pro

If you want the "real thing" (sic), you have to buy one off an astronaut who actually took one to the moon or into space, no?

http://www.walter-mitty.com/speedypro has some nice examples for people who work in an office ;).

[Neil.C]

If you want the "real thing" it has to be a pro

If you want the "real thing" (sic), you have to buy one off an astronaut who actually took one to the moon or into space, no?

http://www.walter-mitty.com/speedypro has some nice examples for people who work in an office ;).

Perzactly.

I am a big Speedy fan but for most IMO the modern 1861 is just as good as the 321 more reliable and you'll never see it. :wink:

[kll]

I'm no expert, but a few comments:
I waffled between pro and auto and ended up with the pro. I couldn't be happier, and have read comments from quite a few who were also happy that they went for the pro... The auto is smaller, but thicker. The newest version of the Reduced (now discontinued from omega btw, although new ones can still be found quite readily) has a very similar dial to the Pro, but does it differently on the wrist. I may be reading too much in to this, but my feeling is that among those that waffled and bought an automatic, many end up wanting the Pro later - haven't heard to many the other way around. They are both nice watches, and one reason the resell value of the automatic is lower is that it was cheaper to start out with.

The 321 is of course much more collectible, but it's also going to much more expensive to buy AND to maintain. There is a middle road, namely that around '68 a few speedies were made that had the applied (ie not painted) omega logo - as found in the 321 speedies - but had a cal 861 inside. These can still be found (I saw one for sale recently) quite a bit cheaper than a cal 321 and with easy-to-get parts for future maint.

In any case, good luck whatever you decide on.

[stowaJLCfan]

I'm no expert, but a few comments:
I waffled between pro and auto and ended up with the pro. I couldn't be happier, and have read comments from quite a few who were also happy that they went for the pro... The auto is smaller, but thicker. The newest version of the Reduced (now discontinued from omega btw, although new ones can still be found quite readily) has a very similar dial to the Pro, but does it differently on the wrist. I may be reading too much in to this, but my feeling is that among those that waffled and bought an automatic, many end up wanting the Pro later - haven't heard to many the other way around. They are both nice watches, and one reason the resell value of the automatic is lower is that it was cheaper to start out with.

The 321 is of course much more collectible, but it's also going to much more expensive to buy AND to maintain. There is a middle road, namely that around '68 a few speedies were made that had the applied (ie not painted) omega logo - as found in the 321 speedies - but had a cal 861 inside. These can still be found (I saw one for sale recently) quite a bit cheaper than a cal 321 and with easy-to-get parts for future maint.

In any case, good luck whatever you decide on.

Yes, seem to be leaning towards the Pro alright, spent the lunch-hour checking the Omega website, lovely Pro on there with sapphire, leather strap and display back.

[kll]

Yes, seem to be leaning towards the Pro alright, spent the lunch-hour checking the Omega website, lovely Pro on there with sapphire, leather strap and display back.

The purists would say that you should by a Hesalite. Not only is that of course your choice, but the sapphire of course has its place. In case you like the display back, I just wanted to let you know that you can find (pre-loved) speedies with a display back and a hesalite front. 3572.50 I think.

If you buy new - get the version with the bracelet. It will cost you much more to buy later, and if you don't have it will subtract from a resell value. Unless of course you know you are never going to sell, and don't really care to wear on a bracelet.

[SternG]

Yes, seem to be leaning towards the Pro alright, spent the lunch-hour checking the Omega website, lovely Pro on there with sapphire, leather strap and display back.

The purists would say that you should by a Hesalite. Not only is that of course your choice, but the sapphire of course has its place. In case you like the display back, I just wanted to let you know that you can find (pre-loved) speedies with a display back and a hesalite front. 3572.50 I think.

If you buy new - get the version with the bracelet. It will cost you much more to buy later, and if you don't have it will subtract from a resell value. Unless of course you know you are never going to sell, and don't really care to wear on a bracelet.

Some sound advice there :thumbright:

[ferengi]

It all depends on how much you use it. The hesalite won't go the distance, so be prepared for a replacement after a few years, or careful use.

[Saint-Just]

It all depends on how much you use it. The hesalite won't go the distance, so be prepared for a replacement after a few years, or careful use.

But it costs peanuts... and it's part of the service anyway.